The Tottenham Riot

[Týr]

We have, finally, an opportunity to discuss the upcoming inquest into the death of Mark Duggan.

The preparatory work is still in progress.

Mr Foote told the inquest into Mr Duggan's death that in January 2011 the Metropolitan Police received intelligence that Mr Duggan had shot "someone in a nightclub" and in February 2011 that he had "fired shots in club car park".

BBC News - Mark Duggan 'among Europe's most violent criminals', inquest told

I wonder whether the police have shown paperwork to the hearing which confirms that these claims were followed up at the time, and that the reports were taken seriously in January 2011 and February 2011 and aren't simply backdated inventions. Because they're not worth a can of beans otherwise. There's been a slew of name-blackening since the day Mr Duggan was killed, more of the same is scarcely evidence.

The slew of name-blackening from the moment a person dies at the hands of a Leman Street team is so routine that one could credibly investigate whether it's institutionalized lying, if one were actually interested in putting an end to institutionalized lying by elements of the Metropolitan Police. I doubt very much whether anyone of influence within the Metropolitan Police has any such interest.

[gmc]

Mark Duggan's death was incidental to the riots in the rest of the country. People in Birmingham and the like are just not going to care who or what he was. There is a lot of simmering discontent in this country with no way to express it, none of the political parties are listening to people and are detached from the body politic. Both ;abour and tory parties are essentially fascist parties nowadays. IMO anyway for what it's worth.

[Týr]

It's generally referred to as the trigger event for the 2011 riots. You may well be right that they'd have kicked off anyway, but there's usually a trigger. Show me a riot in the UK over the last fifty years and I'll tell you what's generally thought to have sparked it off. I think the Birmingham riot was triggered by the news coverage of what happened earlier in Croydon, for example, and that Croydon was sparked off by the Tottenham disturbance. But I also think what happened in Tottenham was a consequence of the shooting.

I'd suggest that a trigger event is something which happens during the two or three days before a riot begins.

So, if there's usually a trigger, and it's usually close in time to the riot, what do you think the trigger was in 2011 if it wasn't a Leman Street team shooting dead yet another car passenger? Or do you think there was no specific trigger on this occasion?

Here's the BBC report at the time, as far as causality goes: Riots in Tottenham after Mark Duggan shooting protest. It's a link taken from the original thread.

[Bryn Mawr]

If the Police wish to come out of this with any credibility whatsoever then they must produce cast iron evidence of what they say, not just attempt another character assassination.

The evidence presented at the time was so flimsy as to be embarrassing - firstly they must prove that he had the gun (and how is came to be so far from the body when found) and then they have to prove that he was in a position to use it then and there. In other words, it is not enough to show that the Police feared for their lives - they have to show they there was a real threat to them from the person they show as soon as they were in a position to do so.

[gmc]

Týr;1436579 wrote: It's generally referred to as the trigger event for the 2011 riots. You may well be right that they'd have kicked off anyway, but there's usually a trigger. Show me a riot in the UK over the last fifty years and I'll tell you what's generally thought to have sparked it off. I think the Birmingham riot was triggered by the news coverage of what happened earlier in Croydon, for example, and that Croydon was sparked off by the Tottenham disturbance. But I also think what happened in Tottenham was a consequence of the shooting.

I'd suggest that a trigger event is something which happens during the two or three days before a riot begins.

So, if there's usually a trigger, and it's usually close in time to the riot, what do you think the trigger was in 2011 if it wasn't a Leman Street team shooting dead yet another car passenger? Or do you think there was no specific trigger on this occasion?

Here's the BBC report at the time, as far as causality goes: Riots in Tottenham after Mark Duggan shooting protest. It's a link taken from the original thread.


I'm not disputing it was a trigger but the shooting was not what the riots were about. It's a displacement reaction - like when you are stressed about something you are having trouble dealing with and someone or something unrelated happens sets you off and you lose your temper be it a colleague at work or a road rage incident or a shooting in a distant town.

We have a long history of rioting in this country and we have a government that has forgotten to be afraid of the people.

[Bryn Mawr]

Further revalations :-

BBC News - Mark Duggan 'was surrendering' when shot

[Týr]

I find it beyond belief that no CCTV footage of the ambush was captured by the traffic police. I've seen no statement claiming otherwise, and yet the only video shown so far to the inquest was taken privately by a local resident and starts after the shooting. A quick look at a map of the area shows that traffic CCTV coverage is inevitable.