How about this government shutdown?

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:45 pm

flopstock;1437468 wrote: It will be interesting to see how long we go without major issues during this shutdown. I read an article yesterday on entire agencies that are completely furloughed right now because none of the positions are deemed essential. The question was raised as to why do we have them if they are not in any way essential to the running of government?

And these entire agencies will be back paid once we are back up and running... These non-essential agency employees all will have had an additional vacation this year on the backs of the tax payers.

That reminds me.. the furloughed that sign up for unemployment, do the government agencies pay into the unemployment fund also, like the private sector does?

I got an email last week that told me I was "excepted" because I was mission essential. Unfortunately none of us knew that that meant until today. We're the ones that came to work but won't get paid for it versus the ones that didn't come to work and will apparently get paid. I'm hoping I didn't understand that correctly because that's seriously messed up.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:45 pm

TÃ½r;1437497 wrote: There's a huge buffer of cash that can be held back on practically no notice whatever. Shut down some insignificant portion of the obscenely oversized US military and use the saved money to fund the committed programs you speak of. Just stopping the Air Force from flying planes for a month or two saves money at the pump. Ground the submarine fleet. Put the aircraft carriers into harbor. Sell a few bases to land speculators for redevelopment.

You're mad.

TÃ½r · Post by **TÃ½r** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:48 pm

SnoozeAgain;1437499 wrote: You're mad.

In the sense of extremely annoyed? How perceptive of you.

TÃ½r · Post by **TÃ½r** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:00 pm

I notice even the Chinese Vice Foreign Minister has raised an eyebrow.The Chinese Vice Foreign Minister, Zhu Guangyao, told Americaâ€™s deadlocked politicians on Monday that â€œthe clock is tickingâ€ and called on them to approve an extension of the national borrowing limit before the federal government is projected to run out of cash on 17 October.

[...] Mr Zhu stressed that it was vital, not only for China but the wider global economy, for America to resolve its budget impasse. â€œSafeguarding the debt is of vital importance to the economy of the US and the world,â€ he said. Referring to a similar deadlock in 2011, which led to a downgrade of the US AAA credit rating by the Standard & Poorâ€™s agency, Mr Zhu said: â€œWe hope the United States fully understands the lessons of history.â€

China warns US as Asia expresses concern for $1.3tn of investments

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:22 pm

Does anyone who's been reading up on this get the feeling it has nothing to do with real debt and something else is going on here? For instance bolstering a crisis for an excuse or cover up for something else? Politicians do it all the time .

Wandrin · Post by **Wandrin** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:35 pm

TÃ½r;1437497 wrote: There's a huge buffer of cash that can be held back on practically no notice whatever. Shut down some insignificant portion of the obscenely oversized US military and use the saved money to fund the committed programs you speak of. Just stopping the Air Force from flying planes for a month or two saves money at the pump. Ground the submarine fleet. Put the aircraft carriers into harbor. Sell a few bases to land speculators for redevelopment. Bring your unwanted warriors home to roost.

I'm with you on that one. Does the US really need 20 military bases in Germany with more than 100,000 personnel? 5 bases in the UK with 11,000 people? 4 bases in Italy with 23,000? How many hundred military bases outside the US are really necessary to defend the US?

I'm sure that is good for the local economies of those countries to have all of those people spending money over there but it really is ridiculous.

Unfortunately, whenever Congress comes up with a new budget there is even more military spending and they try to take the money from agencies that actually help people by controlling disease, clean air and water, etc. I don't see that changing in the near future, just as Eisenhower predicted.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:04 pm

And don't forget the American military bases here. I still don't understand why we need 2000 soldiers at the top end of Australia.......oh no hang on .... training yeah that's right "training".

Robertson Barracks is reported to be a future site of a United States Pacific Command Marine Air-Ground-Task Force rotational deployment, and its current capacity of 4,500 troops will be upgraded in the near future. Currently, the size and the accessibility of key facilities in Darwin follows closely with other US deployment sites around the globe

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:53 pm

SnoozeAgain;1437498 wrote: I got an email last week that told me I was "excepted" because I was mission essential. Unfortunately none of us knew that that meant until today. We're the ones that came to work but won't get paid for it versus the ones that didn't come to work and will apparently get paid. I'm hoping I didn't understand that correctly because that's seriously messed up.
The way I read it, you'll get paid when it is over. So will the ones who didn't work. They'll will get the added bonus of overtime to catch back up. You won't because you've been doing your job all along.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:56 pm

â€œItâ€™s not a question of opposing the extension of health insurance through Obamacare â€” thatâ€™s not enough for them,â€ Sanders said. â€œWhat they want to do is end Medicare as we know it.

Sanders warned that conservative activists and the Republican lawmakers they support intend to roll back Social Security and eliminate minimum wage laws, among other cuts to social services programs.

And he said the Supreme Court ruling that prohibits the government from restricting independent political expenditures by corporations, associations or labor unions.

- See more at: Bernie Sanders: ‘Citizens United’ ruling led to the government shutdown | The Raw Story

Wandrin · Post by **Wandrin** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:25 pm

I trust the opinions of Bernie Sanders more than I trust just about everyone else in Congress. I have a feeling that his assessment is accurate and that is a little disheartening.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:17 am

Wandrin;1437506 wrote: I'm with you on that one. Does the US really need 20 military bases in Germany with more than 100,000 personnel? 5 bases in the UK with 11,000 people? 4 bases in Italy with 23,000? How many hundred military bases outside the US are really necessary to defend the US?

I'm sure that is good for the local economies of those countries to have all of those people spending money over there but it really is ridiculous.

Unfortunately, whenever Congress comes up with a new budget there is even more military spending and they try to take the money from agencies that actually help people by controlling disease, clean air and water, etc. I don't see that changing in the near future, just as Eisenhower predicted.

Oh, I don't care about military bases in most of the other countries and as Fuzzy said, the one in Australia is a real head scratcher. I had a friend that got stationed there in the early 80s and although I envied her the chance to go to Oz, I couldn't figure out why she'd need to. But it seems foolish to decrease out military HERE by reducing aircraft, navy vessels, etc.

And most of the bases here that have been closed don't normally get "sold" as I understand it, they're just absorbed by local government like city or county, so there's no big real estate deal the federal gov can profit from.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:20 am

flopstock;1437513 wrote: The way I read it, you'll get paid when it is over. So will the ones who didn't work. They'll will get the added bonus of overtime to catch back up. You won't because you've been doing your job all along.

Yeah, people were talking about the OT possibility yesterday and we were all getting pretty effing annoyed about it. This whole thing is a CF. We've been here doing our jobs *and* theirs but they'll get back pay and OT (maybe.) Great way to save money, you big dum dums in DC.

TÃ½r · Post by **TÃ½r** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:23 am

SnoozeAgain;1437539 wrote: Oh, I don't care about military bases in most of the other countries and as Fuzzy said, the one in Australia is a real head scratcher. I had a friend that got stationed there in the early 80s and although I envied her the chance to go to Oz, I couldn't figure out why she'd need to. But it seems foolish to decrease out military HERE by reducing aircraft, navy vessels, etc.

And most of the bases here that have been closed don't normally get "sold" as I understand it, they're just absorbed by local government like city or county, so there's no big real estate deal the federal gov can profit from.

Then it's simple, Snooze. Assume that everything I wrote which you objected to referred to overseas deployments. Bring everything back into the Homeland and I guarantee it'll be both cheaper to service and easier to cull. Everyone wins. The military demand on government finance diminishes, the world heaves a long-overdue sigh of heartfelt relief and the US-induced "terrorism threat" evaporates.

You do realize that around half the world's military expenditure hemorrhages from the US Federal budget, don't you? Get a grip on it. Slim down some.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:11 am

TÃ½r;1437541 wrote: Then it's simple, Snooze. Assume that everything I wrote which you objected to referred to overseas deployments. Bring everything back into the Homeland and I guarantee it'll be both cheaper to service and easier to cull. Everyone wins. The military demand on government finance diminishes, the world heaves a long-overdue sigh of heartfelt relief and the US-induced "terrorism threat" evaporates.

You do realize that around half the world's military expenditure hemorrhages from the US Federal budget, don't you? Get a grip on it. Slim down some.

Do you seriously think that if WE THE PEOPLE had any control over those jackasses in washington that they would be doing half of the crap they do?

You need to get a grip, IMO

TÃ½r · Post by **TÃ½r** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:25 am

flopstock;1437551 wrote: Do you seriously think that if WE THE PEOPLE had any control over those jackasses in washington that they would be doing half of the crap they do?

You need to get a grip, IMO

If you voted Democrat, or if you voted Republican, for any national candidate this century, then it's entirely your personal fault. You collaborated.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:43 pm

TÃ½r;1437552 wrote: If you voted Democrat, or if you voted Republican, for any national candidate this century, then it's entirely your personal fault. You collaborated.

No it isn't. It is the fault of those who don't vote at all.

TÃ½r · Post by **TÃ½r** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:15 am

flopstock;1437596 wrote: No it isn't. It is the fault of those who don't vote at all.

I disagree. You validated a political process which you yourself agree gives you no voice in what decisions are taken. If everyone in the country voted you'd still be in that same position. Whether the government is hung, or totally Democrat, or totally Republican, the end result is the same. You might have tinkering within the Homeland as far as care for the destitute is concerned but the wars continue unabated and the blowback continually builds. Break the cycle somehow. Voting isn't the solution.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:41 am

SnoozeAgain;1437540 wrote: Yeah, people were talking about the OT possibility yesterday and we were all getting pretty effing annoyed about it. This whole thing is a CF. We've been here doing our jobs *and* theirs but they'll get back pay and OT (maybe.) Great way to save money, you big dum dums in DC.

Problem I'm having is if somebody is "nonessential", they shouldn't have been hired in the first place.

I am not picking on the people as much of government is nonessential and should be closed down.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:48 am

Non-essential as in not directly supporting aircraft repair... in this case, ie payroll and other personnel support. I think most people would agree that payroll is important. Please don't confuse goverment lingo with real English.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:43 am

Let's vote this guy in somewhere!

To Help During Shutdown, Man Mows Lawn Around Lincoln Memorial : The Two-Way : NPR

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:04 pm

flopstock;1437648 wrote: Let's vote this guy in somewhere!

To Help During Shutdown, Man Mows Lawn Around Lincoln Memorial : The Two-Way : NPR

He said the police chased him away, but it was too late. He said he had already been tidying up around the memorial and the Reflecting Pool for the past few days, because nobody else is.

Are the the same cops who prevented WW2 vets, many in wheel chairs from visiting THEIR Memorial?

Talk about nonessential.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:34 am

Hey! You with the lawn mower. Stop showing that people can act independent of the government. You're ruining our message!

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:47 am

Accountable;1438058 wrote: Hey! You with the lawn mower. Stop showing that people can act independent of the government. You're ruining our message!

Remember the sequestration? Where are we with that?

Because I got to tell you that if we shut down, no one here noticed it.

TÃ½r · Post by **TÃ½r** » Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:17 am

flopstock;1438060 wrote: Remember the sequestration? Where are we with that?

Because I got to tell you that if we shut down, no one here noticed it.

I was puzzled that all my emails from the US Geological Survey mailing list continued unabated through the last month. Perhaps they qualified as vital but I'm not sure, if that's so, why.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:34 am

TÃ½r;1438066 wrote: I was puzzled that all my emails from the US Geological Survey mailing list continued unabated through the last month. Perhaps they qualified as vital but I'm not sure, if that's so, why.

It's You. You're Vital.

tabby · Post by **tabby** » Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:01 pm

flopstock;1438060 wrote: Remember the sequestration? Where are we with that?

Because I got to tell you that if we shut down, no one here noticed it.

If I hadn't read of the Federal gov't shutdown, I wouldn't have known any different. Life went on as before. Some of the areas with military installations or a high number of federal workers probably felt some pinch economically but otherwise it was hard to detect a difference.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:11 pm

You should get out more then Tabby .

So a show of hands please. Who's now waiting for the telly mini series or blockbuster movie?

Wandrin · Post by **Wandrin** » Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:04 am

It's too early for the movie. The hostage takers are planning to do it again in January.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:57 am

fuzzywuzzy;1438184 wrote:

So a show of hands please. Who's now waiting for the telly mini series or blockbuster movie?

Too boring for a movie or TV. No one was killed, no blood shed.