How Many People Have Been Killed by Guns Since Newtown?

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tude dog
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Post by tude dog »

YZGI;1426520 wrote: I wouldn't think so. I can't understand why at least an unlawful dis charge of a firearm charge hasn't been brought. Someone should be charged with something if for no other reason than to get to the truth in court.

On another note, why do people assume Eagle Scouts don't commit crimes?


I dunno, who does that?

In another thread we have a boy, not only an Eagle Scout, but an exceptional student at school. He was accused of a non violent felony crime. i.e., left a shotgun in his car at school.

Here we have an Eagle Scout, 28 yrs. old - a good kid - a Eagle Scout who not only shoots Dad, but with Mom leaves for parts unknown.
If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles,” Doug Larson.

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Patsy Warnick
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Post by Patsy Warnick »

YZGI & All

I suppose I assumed the Scouts were a good structure - this kid worked his way up the ranks - I thought that was great for this single child to work in groups with individual goals and the structure would fill in where the parenting lacked.

He went to good schools - good grades - good parents - of course the kid was spoiled.

At this time - No one is going thru counseling except the Dad.

At some point this kid will reflect back on this incident and realise what?

He was manilpulated by his Mom? Should she sleep with one eye open?

This kid hasn't had to face any consequences - Mom bails him out - Ms. fixer.

If this kid can shoot his Dad 5 times and get away with it - what's his next step?

He's free to be walk among us and anything can "trigger" that temper/rage?

I see the path he has chosen leads to prison.

This is a horrible - unbelievable story for me.

Patsy
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Post by YZGI »

Patsy Warnick;1426622 wrote: YZGI & All

I suppose I assumed the Scouts were a good structure - this kid worked his way up the ranks - I thought that was great for this single child to work in groups with individual goals and the structure would fill in where the parenting lacked.

He went to good schools - good grades - good parents - of course the kid was spoiled.

At this time - No one is going thru counseling except the Dad.

At some point this kid will reflect back on this incident and realise what?

He was manilpulated by his Mom? Should she sleep with one eye open?

This kid hasn't had to face any consequences - Mom bails him out - Ms. fixer.

If this kid can shoot his Dad 5 times and get away with it - what's his next step?

He's free to be walk among us and anything can "trigger" that temper/rage?

I see the path he has chosen leads to prison.

This is a horrible - unbelievable story for me.

Patsy
They must have money. Shooting an unarmed man 5 times, I would think the bail would have been pretty high.
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tude dog
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Post by tude dog »

28 yrs. old - a good kid - a Eagle Scout


28 yrs old is not a kid. He is an adult.
If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles,” Doug Larson.

“Never doubt the courage of the French. They were the ones who discovered that snails are edible.”
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Post by Ahso! »

Ahso!;1426315 wrote: 38523951
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by AnneBoleyn »

tude dog;1426642 wrote: 28 yrs old is not a kid. He is an adult.


Yup.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

This is a horrible - unbelievable story for me.

Patsy

That's because you are acquainted. I find it totally believable.
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Post by Patsy Warnick »

Yes, 28 is an adult I know.

Anne - you just wouldn't think this family - last we talked, they spoke about retiring.

honestly I'm shocked.

Puts a different spin on "Twas the night before C'Mas".

Patsy
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

I hope I'm not becoming too callous or immune, but sorry to say when I read the following this morning there were only two words that came to mind: Dumb Bitch.

Colorado woman, 22, accidentally shot dead after trying to show off recently purchased assault rifle

"Anastasia Adair was attempting to show some friends her recently purchased AK-47-style weapon when she tripped, accidentally firing a shot into her head."

Colorado woman, 22, accidentally shot dead after trying to show off recently purchased assault rifleÂ* - NY Daily News

The information contained in the article makes it even more apropos.
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Post by Accountable »

Well, she does fit a cliche', doesn't she? Or is it stereotype? I'm tired.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Accountable;1427513 wrote: Well, she does fit a cliche', doesn't she? Or is it stereotype? I'm tired.


Yeah. I hate to succumb to that but generally speaking seems generally true. Speaking generally, of course.
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Post by tude dog »

Witnesses and the husband told police the group had been drinking in the garage of the couple's home


The gun fired a second time


ABC 7 News

I enjoyed this observation

The gun was clearly out for blood. And even if you admit the possibility that Mrs. Adair somehow shot herself in the head the first time are we to believe that she kept shooting even after her cranium was severely compromised?

TTAG

BTW: Somebody should update Slate. I don't see it there./OOPs, found it, they are good.
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“Never doubt the courage of the French. They were the ones who discovered that snails are edible.”
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Post by tude dog »

Do me a favor. Don't ever call a cop for me. Much safer without the professional.

Andrea Rebello was shot once in the head Friday morning by an officer who opened fire after the masked intruder pointed a gun at the officer while holding the 21-year-old Hofstra University student in a headlock,


Azzata said the Nassau County police officer fired eight shots at Smith, who police described as having an "extensive" criminal background. Smith was hit seven times and died. Rebello was shot once in the head.


USA TODAY
If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles,” Doug Larson.

“Never doubt the courage of the French. They were the ones who discovered that snails are edible.”
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Post by Ahso! »

Ahso!;1426654 wrote: 39514244
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



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Post by Ahso! »

tude dog;1427528 wrote: Do me a favor. Don't ever call a cop for me. Much safer without the professional.And yet your argument rests wholly on the premise that (besides locking everyone else up in prison) gun safety and proper handling lessons of the weapon is all that's needed for everyone who wants to own a gun to have one.

Incidentally, would you support a mandate for the classes/lessons?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by Accountable »

I would support a retailer requiring it as a condition of the sale, but I wouldn't support making a law requiring him to do so.

Accountable;1415634 wrote: [...] maybe the answer for the US is to teach kids gun use and gun safety rather than making them taboo, and do it early, before bad elements can make it a cool way to break the rules. Teach hunting in late elementary/early middle school.

Hunting does not make a child bloodthirsty. Hunting shows with graphic intensity that a gun has the power to kill, and it teaches it with safety and responsibility.

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Post by Ahso! »

But you'd be okay with the retailer not requiring gun safety/shooting lessons if they didn't want to since that might cut into their profits too much or lower their sales potential? Also, since less people have been raising their children with guns and hunting over the years and that's the reality of the situation, you support the marketing of guns to these younger people anyway?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by Accountable »

Ahso!;1427622 wrote: But you'd be okay with the retailer not requiring gun safety/shooting lessons if they didn't want to since that might cut into their profits too much or lower their sales potential?Correct. I'd also be okay with people complaining about such practices - up to and including picketing, boycotting, and ad campaigns - to try and pressure the business into changing their policies. That's the free market at work. I suppose you think gov't intervention is the best/only answer?

Ahso!;1427622 wrote: Also, since less people have been raising their children with guns and hunting over the years and that's the reality of the situation, you support the marketing of guns to these younger people anyway?I've always wondered about why the big stink over marketing to children. Children don't have their own money. They can't buy anything. Is it strictly to help those parents who can't resist spoiling their kids? When I was a kid my mother had no problem at all telling me 'no' when I asked for some such thing I saw on TV.
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Post by Ahso! »

Accountable;1427625 wrote: Correct. I'd also be okay with people complaining about such practices - up to and including picketing, boycotting, and ad campaigns - to try and pressure the business into changing their policies. That's the free market at work. I suppose you think gov't intervention is the best/only answer?

I've always wondered about why the big stink over marketing to children. Children don't have their own money. They can't buy anything. Is it strictly to help those parents who can't resist spoiling their kids? When I was a kid my mother had no problem at all telling me 'no' when I asked for some such thing I saw on TV.Long term marketing strategies are just that, they're generational. The strategy is that marketing to children now in differing ways and outlets pays off in a generation when the illusion that guns is an accepted way of life in the community and therefore those now children as parents later will be more receptive to child guns. Hell, many are okay with them now, just go to the local toys-r-us and see what's on the shelves. Though those are toys.

I think we're better off becoming educated in the psychology of marketing and then accepting a majority decision. The problem is, how many of us can be bothered to invest the time into understanding marketing psychology.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

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Post by Accountable »

Ahso!;1427629 wrote: Long term marketing strategies are just that, they're generational. The strategy is that marketing to children now in differing ways and outlets pays off in a generation when the illusion that guns is an accepted way of life in the community and therefore those now children as parents later will be more receptive to child guns. Hell, many are okay with them now, just go to the local toys-r-us and see what's on the shelves. Though those are toys.It's not an illusion in many communities.

Ahso!;1427629 wrote: I think we're better off becoming educated in the psychology of marketing and then accepting a majority decision. The problem is, how many of us can be bothered to invest the time into understanding marketing psychology.
That's a critical thinking skill, which imo ought to be taught right along with the 3 Rs. TX Repubs actually put a plank in their party platform to eliminate critical thinking from the state public school curriculum ... which clearly shows that we don't teach it in the first place, thus negating the need for the plank. :driving:
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Post by tude dog »

Ibragim Todashev

Killed in Orlando, FL

Shot on 5/22/2013

Age: 27

I think this guy is like number 4,315.

No loss there.
If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles,” Doug Larson.

“Never doubt the courage of the French. They were the ones who discovered that snails are edible.”
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Post by Ahso! »

tude dog;1427745 wrote: Ibragim Todashev

Killed in Orlando, FL

Shot on 5/22/2013

Age: 27

I think this guy is like number 4,315.

No loss there.For whom do you speak? You mean nobody care about this person and it's not a loss for anybody. Also, it's not known whether Todashev had anything to do with the bombing and he was shot by an FBI agent who claims Todashev attacked him. Of course there are no independent eye witnesses.

Your arrogance is astounding.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by tude dog »

Todashev, a 27-year-old mixed-martial-arts fighter, was being questioned about a 2011 triple slaying in Waltham, Mass., federal-law-enforcement sources told the Tribune Washington bureau.

Federal officials think he and Tamerlan Tsarnaev, one of the suspected Boston bombers, may have had a role in cutting the throats of three men and sprinkling marijuana over their bodies. One of the three Waltham victims, Brendan H. Mess, was described as a close friend of Tsarnaev's.


Orlando Sentinel
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Post by tude dog »

Just for S&G,

#4316

Burglary suspect killed by homeowner may be linked to other crimes

Homeowner 1

Burglar 0
If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles,” Doug Larson.

“Never doubt the courage of the French. They were the ones who discovered that snails are edible.”
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Post by BTS »

And...Just how many were by law abiding citizens and how many were by the criminal elements??

That would be a better gauge IMHO...

Also....See if you can find out from the Un-Bi-assed Slate site how many were guns from fast-N-Furious also...

Ahso!;1414984 wrote: I'd like to remember to keep a running total.

When I started this thread yesterday the number was 393

Today - 409
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Post by tude dog »

BTS;1427871 wrote: And...Just how many were by law abiding citizens and how many were by the criminal elements??

That would be a better gauge IMHO...


This whole exercise isn't about how to gauge anything. It's about using the deaths of innocent children to promote an agenda.

Perfect example of "never let a crisis go to waste."
If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles,” Doug Larson.

“Never doubt the courage of the French. They were the ones who discovered that snails are edible.”
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Post by Ahso! »

BTS;1427871 wrote: And...Just how many were by law abiding citizens and how many were by the criminal elements??

That would be a better gauge IMHO...

Also....See if you can find out from the Un-Bi-assed Slate site how many were guns from fast-N-Furious also...You'd figure the NRA would want to be keeping track of those figures. Let us know what you come up with.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by Accountable »

Ahso!
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Post by Ahso! »

Unless you end up shooting yourself or someone you love by accident or a child is involved in some way.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

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Post by Accountable »

Ahso!;1427989 wrote: Unless you end up shooting yourself or someone you love by accident or a child is involved in some way.
"A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again Unless you end up shooting yourself or someone you love by accident or a child is involved in some way. In such cases, you may need one again?

:-2 You don't make sense.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Accountable;1427990 wrote: "A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again Unless you end up shooting yourself or someone you love by accident or a child is involved in some way. In such cases, you may need one again?

:-2 You don't make sense.


Sorry Acc but neither does your soundbyte.

It lacks balance, it focuses on the minority case - that of the innocent citizen trained in the use of firearms who is given the time to deploy a gun he has neglected to bring.

It happens, but it's far more likely that he's covered from the get go and has no chance to go for any weapon.

Then consider what would happen if all citizens were armed, trained and carrying. Anyone intending violence would shoot first and shoot from concealment - remember, the scum who go round shooting people are by their very nature cowards, they would not give their victims a fair chance.
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Post by Ahso! »

Ahso!;1427571 wrote: 42446386
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean

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Post by Ahso! »

Accountable;1427990 wrote: "A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again Unless you end up shooting yourself or someone you love by accident or a child is involved in some way. In such cases, you may need one again?

:-2 You don't make sense.Meaning; a gun is nothing like a parachute.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean

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Post by Ahso! »

Bryn Mawr;1428251 wrote: Sorry Acc but neither does your soundbyte.

It lacks balance, it focuses on the minority case - that of the innocent citizen trained in the use of firearms who is given the time to deploy a gun he has neglected to bring.

It happens, but it's far more likely that he's covered from the get go and has no chance to go for any weapon.

Then consider what would happen if all citizens were armed, trained and carrying. Anyone intending violence would shoot first and shoot from concealment - remember, the scum who go round shooting people are by their very nature cowards, they would not give their victims a fair chance.There's another aspect of the soundbyte that actually holds water: a person in need of a parachute has made a conscience decision, most often, to put themselves in a situation where the parachute is essential to their survival. With the gun this might be out looking to right the wrongs in society with a quick and easy solution (i.e. harassing/stalking a black teen who you don't want to see in the neighborhood). An argument might be made that that is exactly what the gun industry/lobby has been busy working on by instilling fear (you're always in high altitude) so make sure you have your parachute (gun). Of course like so many other arguments surrounding guns, it's a ....say it....strawman. Conservatives love stuffing and admiring strawmen for some strange reason.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean

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Post by Ahso! »

Accountable;1427988 wrote: Out of curiosity, is that a poster you have hanging on your bedroom wall?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by Fyrenza »

tl/dnr

"Killed?" Or MURDERED?

There IS a difference, after all.
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Post by Ahso! »

Ahso!;1432078 wrote: 63866663! Oh-no, look, three sixes together. Slate must be in cahoots with the Debil - progressives, IOW.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by Bruv »

Fyrenza;1432193 wrote: tl/dnr

"Killed?" Or MURDERED?

There IS a difference, after all.


Are there degrees of deadness ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Post by Accountable »

Ahso!
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Post by Ahso! »

tude dog;1416097 wrote: We are taxed to insure circulation???

I have never ever heard the pitch for new or higher taxes to keep citizens from investing in the stock market. That's a good one.halfway;1416102 wrote: It's absurd.
I don't recall whether or not I've already done this, but just to be safe.

Fiscal policy is the means by which a government adjusts its spending levels and tax rates to monitor and influence a nation's economy. It is the sister strategy to monetary policy through which a central bank influences a nation's money supply. These two policies are used in various combinations to direct a country's economic goals. Here we look at how fiscal policy works, how it must be monitored and how its implementation may affect different people in an economy. ...The idea, however, is to find a balance between changing tax rates and public spending. For example, stimulating a stagnant economy by increasing spending or lowering taxes runs the risk of causing inflation to rise. This is because an increase in the amount of money in the economy, followed by an increase in consumer demand, can result in a decrease in the value of money - meaning that it would take more money to buy something that has not changed in value.

........

Balancing Act

The idea, however, is to find a balance between changing tax rates and public spending. For example, stimulating a stagnant economy by increasing spending or lowering taxes runs the risk of causing inflation to rise. This is because an increase in the amount of money in the economy, followed by an increase in consumer demand, can result in a decrease in the value of money - meaning that it would take more money to buy something that has not changed in value.

Let's say that an economy has slowed down. Unemployment levels are up, consumer spending is down and businesses are not making substantial profits. A government thus decides to fuel the economy's engine by decreasing taxation, which gives consumers more spending money, while increasing government spending in the form of buying services from the market (such as building roads or schools). By paying for such services, the government creates jobs and wages that are in turn pumped into the economy. Pumping money into the economy by decreasing taxation and increasing government spending is also known as "pump priming." In the meantime, overall unemployment levels will fall.

With more money in the economy and fewer taxes to pay, consumer demand for goods and services increases. This, in turn, rekindles businesses and turns the cycle around from stagnant to active.

If, however, there are no reins on this process, the increase in economic productivity can cross over a very fine line and lead to too much money in the market. This excess in supply decreases the value of money while pushing up prices (because of the increase in demand for consumer products). Hence, inflation exceeds the reasonable level.

For this reason, fine tuning the economy through fiscal policy alone can be a difficult, if not improbable, means to reach economic goals. If not closely monitored, the line between a productive economy and one that is infected by inflation can be easily blurred.

And When the Economy Needs to Be Curbed …

When inflation is too strong, the economy may need a slowdown. In such a situation, a government can use fiscal policy to increase taxes to suck money out of the economy. Fiscal policy could also dictate a decrease in government spending and thereby decrease the money in circulation. Of course, the possible negative effects of such a policy in the long run could be a sluggish economy and high unemployment levels. Nonetheless, the process continues as the government uses its fiscal policy to fine-tune spending and taxation levels, with the goal of evening out the business cycles.

What Is Fiscal Policy?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean

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