The ridiculous Trayvon Martin case

katsung47
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Post by katsung47 »

The ridiculous Trayvon Martin case

It’s a failure of US judicial system. It failed to help the weak side people.

When it says Zimmerman is not guilty to kill Trayvon Martin, then what Trayvon was? He became an attacker – a threat to other’s life. That’s how a court to turn an innocent man to be a potential life threatener. An unarmed teen on his way to his relative’s house. He now was believed to be a threaten to other’s life. The other one, though proved having original bad will against Trayvon and finally killed him, became victim.

It indicates that any law abiding citizens should be obedient to unreasonable search (followed, monitored, provoked…). Or he would be killed, if the provoker announced that his life has been threatened.

This case also would encourage people to use guns in argument because dead people losing their voice in the case.
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I have to say that I have been reading about this case In England and i am mystified how the jury could have returned a not guilty verdict unless there was corruption.
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Florida (and several other states) have a "stand your ground" law. It makes about as much sense as the Texas guy that was allowed to kill that Craigslist escort when she left with his money... because it was after dark. Southern states are weird, what can I tell you.
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Post by tude dog »

oscar;1431660 wrote: I have to say that I have been reading about this case In England and i am mystified how the jury could have returned a not guilty verdict unless there was corruption.


I dunno what they feed you over there, probably not much different than what our lame stream media spews.

General consensus of anyone paying attention to the trial is the prosecutions case at best was weak. Not a shock since it was a political show trial.
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tude dog;1431665 wrote: I dunno what they feed you over there, probably not much different than what our lame stream media spews.

General consensus of anyone paying attention to the trial is the prosecutions case at best was weak. Not a shock since it was a political show trial. What they feed us dude Is CNN news.... England got electricity and televisions last year. Some of us even get American channels.
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How's your plumbing?
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oscar;1431666 wrote: What they feed us dude Is CNN news.... England got electricity and televisions last year. Some of us even get American channels.


LOL OK, that's the problem,CNN

Seriously though. I don't watch TV news. Most my news is from the internet, which includes CNN. All things considered, I have been very disappointed with CNN in relation to this subject.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

SnoozeAgain;1431667 wrote: How's your plumbing? I'm OK but there are parts of East Anglia were they have had no running water and still rely on Big Ron to bring the rain water up from the wells. However they do get Al Jazeera... not on tv ... It's just some Asian guy shouting In the streets.
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SnoozeAgain;1431661 wrote: Florida (and several other states) have a "stand your ground" law. It makes about as much sense as the Texas guy that was allowed to kill that Craigslist escort when she left with his money... because it was after dark. Southern states are weird, what can I tell you.


Whatever your problem with so called 'stand your ground laws' it had

ZERO

to do with Zimmerman defending himself.
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Post by Snooz »

So you don't think he would have been found guilty of manslaughter in a state without it?
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SnoozeAgain;1431674 wrote: So you don't think he would have been found guilty of manslaughter in a state without it?


All I can say, is 'stand your ground' was never a legal issue. As of now, I know more of Florida law on manslaughter than of my own state, so I hesitate to make a general rule.
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SnoozeAgain;1431661 wrote: Florida (and several other states) have a "stand your ground" law. It makes about as much sense as the Texas guy that was allowed to kill that Craigslist escort when she left with his money... because it was after dark. Southern states are weird, what can I tell you.


I don't understand the problem with 'stand your ground'. Far as I know all it means if I have a right to be where I am, ya all can just leave me alone.

Texas, far as I know is the only state which allows the use of lethal force to protect property. Been giving it some thought, and the more I think of it, the better it sounds.
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oscar;1431660 wrote: I have to say that I have been reading about this case In England and i am mystified how the jury could have returned a not guilty verdict unless there was corruption.
Standard American habit of overcharging.

They tried to convict him of 2nd degree murder.
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Post by valerie »

SnoozeAgain;1431674 wrote: So you don't think he would have been found guilty of manslaughter in a state without it?


If that state allowed use of deadly force when a person felt in fear of his/her life, as

Florida does, then no. But as we well know, all juries are different. Lawyers,

everything would be different.
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Post by gmc »

But zimmerman didn't stand his ground he went after him and shot him. Surely the law wasn't intended to let people follow and kill someone just because they think they might be a criminal. More to the point. perhaps, if trayon had been white would he have assumed he was a criminal?
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Post by Accountable »

I know you'd rather make the leaps and assume the worst of us, gmc, but do a little research on Zimmerman before concluding that he's a racist who stalks black people to kill them ... or even that he's white.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

I have copied this post from someone on facebook because I feel It raises some good points.

Read the unedited 911 transcripts. The 911 operator asked GZ where the suspect went. GZ said he went behind some houses. The 911 operator asked if he could tell where he went. That's when GZ got out of the car and tried to find him. When the 911 operator heard GZ panting he was asked "are you following him?" GZ said yes and 911 operator said you don't need to do that and GZ said ok. And if you look at the testimony from Trayvon's girlfriend Trayvon made it back to his father’s house and then decided to go back and confront GZ. If he truly felt he was in danger why not go inside, lock the door and call the police? Simple logical question that needs to be asked especially with the misinterpretation of Rand's of Stand your ground which was not claimed by the Zimmerman defense. Simply Self Defense as his wounds and an eye witness accounted for.

Stand your ground would not apply to Trayvon because his "defense" under a Castle Doctrine does not rise to the level that would support it being justifiable:

1) Would a reasonable person feel justified in employing deadly force in such a situation? No, because being followed by someone is not considered high enough criteria for such use of deadly force.

2) Was he in a situation where a reasonable person would feel they needed to employ deadly force to stave off imminent death or grievous bodily harm? No, there is no indication, based on eye witness reports and the physical evidence to indicate he was under severe enough duress to employ lethal force.

Again, You really should familiarize yourself with what the law actually is, not what you think it is or should be and the actual transcripts instead of the supposed quotes from the agenda driven (left-wing) websites that had to make the "facts" support the narrative they started with.

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Post by YZGI »

Having watched almost every witness and nearly the whole trial I think the jury got it right. I think GZ was attacked while walking back to his vehicle and TM was beating the hell out of him when he finally was able to get his gun out and shoot TM. This whole thing has been fuel by the media starting with them always showing TM in pics as a 12 yr old. I can't figure out why the media keep trying to push racial division. GZ has mentored young black children even after the state quit paying him to foster the kids. He is half Mexican, not white.

My 2 cents
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Post by tabby »

Our president is half white/half black and yet is referred to by the world press as our black president, He’s made a career out of it.

George Zimmerman is half white/half hispanic and yet has been consistently referred to as white. Maybe off white. Bisque maybe? Ultimately it doesn’t really matter unless of course you want it to matter.

I realize that in stressing race the media is laying groundwork for the masses in our nation and others to throw objectivity out of the window and reduce the circumstances to overwrought emotionality. Scary stuff! There’s more going on here than meets the eye although what that is specifically I’m not privy to nor do I really understand the ultimate goal.
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I think It simply comes down to weather the news report is written by the left or the right.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

TD: "I don't understand the problem with 'stand your ground'. Far as I know all it means if I have a right to be where I am, ya all can just leave me alone."

Trayvon had a right to be where he was & a right to be left alone.
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TD: "Texas, far as I know is the only state which allows the use of lethal force to protect property. Been giving it some thought, and the more I think of it, the better it sounds."

Seems I'm answering your post #12 backwards! Sorry.

Hate to bore you with a story I told before, but in NH I was a store owner. When I got my carry permit a police officer told me that if I were robbed but not hurt when the robber left or leaving my store I had the legal right to shoot to kill, even shoot him in the back. I wouldn't have. It's wrong.
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AnneBoleyn;1431752 wrote: TD: "I don't understand the problem with 'stand your ground'. Far as I know all it means if I have a right to be where I am, ya all can just leave me alone."

Trayvon had a right to be where he was & a right to be left alone.


BINGO!

Four minutes they had no contact. Phone records confirm that.

Martin, far as I can tell felt dissed and went to teach George a lesson. A fatal mistake.
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AnneBoleyn;1431753 wrote: TD: "Texas, far as I know is the only state which allows the use of lethal force to protect property. Been giving it some thought, and the more I think of it, the better it sounds."

Seems I'm answering your post #12 backwards! Sorry.

Hate to bore you with a story I told before, but in NH I was a store owner. When I got my carry permit a police officer told me that if I were robbed but not hurt when the robber left or leaving my store I had the legal right to shoot to kill, even shoot him in the back. I wouldn't have. It's wrong.


I don't remember that story, but it reminds me of others.

I forget where I first heard this,

"Behind every bullet is a lawyer."

It is very difficult to express a determination to protect self/property without bravado.

There are so many ways of getting into trouble, needing lawyers etc,
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Post by Scrat »

Trayvon had a right to be where he was & a right to be left alone.


True but he had no right to physically attack Zimmermann, that is the escalation that cost him his life. That was his decision alone.
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Post by gmc »

posted by scrat

True but he had no right to physically attack Zimmermann, that is the escalation that cost him his life. That was his decision alone.




If you are being followed at night and have reason to fear attack why should you not defend yourself. Why should martin have to explain why he was there? if someone will not take heed of a request to leave you alone it is reasonable to assume they mean you harm in those circumstances attacking first is a good tactic. Don't know about you but if I turn round and tell someone to stop following me on a street at night unless he does so or gives me a hell of a good reason for his actions I am going to assume his intent ios malicious and act accordingly. Flight or fight and damaging someone as quickly as possible in a manner that will prevent them getting up is a pretty good option. The more I read about this the more I think zimmerman was looking for trouble and looking for an excuse to throw his weight around. Zimmerman should have backed off when martin asked him to when he didn't martin had a right to defend himself. If you provoke someone and they retaliate don't play the innocent.
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Post by YZGI »

gmc;1431777 wrote: posted by scrat



If you are being followed at night and have reason to fear attack why should you not defend yourself. Why should martin have to explain why he was there? if someone will not take heed of a request to leave you alone it is reasonable to assume they mean you harm in those circumstances attacking first is a good tactic. Don't know about you but if I turn round and tell someone to stop following me on a street at night unless he does so or gives me a hell of a good reason for his actions I am going to assume his intent ios malicious and act accordingly. Flight or fight and damaging someone as quickly as possible in a manner that will prevent them getting up is a pretty good option. The more I read about this the more I think zimmerman was looking for trouble and looking for an excuse to throw his weight around. Zimmerman should have backed off when martin asked him to when he didn't martin had a right to defend himself. If you provoke someone and they retaliate don't play the innocent.


Did you read this somewhere or just make it up?
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YZGI;1431782 wrote: Did you read this somewhere or just make it up?


It wasn't evidence in the trial.



the problem is that people are just making statements as if they are fact rather than stating it is their belief or opinion. then the next guy steps up and quotes the first guy as if it is fact.. pretty soon there are all these new 'facts' floating around.
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flopstock;1431828 wrote: It wasn't evidence in the trial.



the problem is that people are just making statements as if they are fact rather than stating it is their belief or opinion. then the next guy steps up and quotes the first guy as if it is fact.. pretty soon there are all these new 'facts' floating around.That's true, of course, but don't forget that many of the facts in this case is based on what Zimmerman said happened while the only other person who might have contradicted some of what Zimmerman said is dead.
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Post by gmc »

YZGI;1431782 wrote: Did you read this somewhere or just make it up?


We only have Zimmerman version of what was said which in actual fact I haven't bothered reading. This is interesting to me but not that fascinating. It seems unlikely martin would not have challenged zimmerman as to why he was following him, I sure I read somewhere he phoned a friend and complained about being followed by a creepy guy.

The salient fact to me seems to be zimmerman didn't have to follow martin and ignored a police request not to. If he hadn't done so this wouldn't have happened. He was looking for a confrontation it seems to me.
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gmc;1431844 wrote: We only have Zimmerman version of what was said which in actual fact I haven't bothered reading. This is interesting to me but not that fascinating. It seems unlikely martin would not have challenged zimmerman as to why he was following him, I sure I read somewhere he phoned a friend and complained about being followed by a creepy guy.

The salient fact to me seems to be zimmerman didn't have to follow martin and ignored a police request not to. If he hadn't done so this wouldn't have happened. He was looking for a confrontation it seems to me.


Once again..

I have no idea where this assertion of fact could possibly have come from, but it is absolutely universal. Even now, pundits on every channel maintain that Zimmerman disobeyed a police order (though it wasn’t even an order) and continued chasing Martin. Zimmerman’s story from the beginning to police and to the media has been that he stopped following when the dispatcher told him to. There have been no witness statements to the contrary. For that matter, there are no witnesses claiming to have seen what happened before the physical altercation took place. But what does the 911 tape tell us?

From the call released by the Sanford Police:



Read more: 911 call shows Zimmerman stopped following Martin after dispatcher’s request, corroborates story | The Daily Caller
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Post by Ahso! »

YZGI;1431853 wrote: Once again..

I have no idea where this assertion of fact could possibly have come from, but it is absolutely universal. Even now, pundits on every channel maintain that Zimmerman disobeyed a police order (though it wasn’t even an order) and continued chasing Martin. Zimmerman’s story from the beginning to police and to the media has been that he stopped following when the dispatcher told him to. There have been no witness statements to the contrary. For that matter, there are no witnesses claiming to have seen what happened before the physical altercation took place. But what does the 911 tape tell us?

From the call released by the Sanford Police:Are there any witness statements corroborating that?
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Ahso!;1431857 wrote: Are there any witness statements corroborating that?


Corroborating what exactly? There were no eye witnesses until the two were already fighting.
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YZGI;1431860 wrote: Corroborating what exactly? There were no eye witnesses until the two were already fighting.I think that's G's point. The only "facts" is Zimmerman's word.
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Ahso!;1431877 wrote: I think that's G's point. The only "facts" is Zimmerman's word.


Actually GMC was making up "facts" , I didn't feel that was fair. Re-read his last couple of posts.
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YZGI;1431879 wrote: Actually GMC was making up "facts" , I didn't feel that was fair. Re-read his last couple of posts.I understand that. What it appeared to me he was doing was playing the devil's advocate, IOW, taking Martin's side.
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YZGI;1431860 wrote: Corroborating what exactly? There were no eye witnesses until the two were already fighting.


There is the question defense attorney put to the jury, what was Martin doing for four minutes?

He wasn't calling 911 or going to his dad's home where he was staying. Apparently not all that afraid of George.

George Zimmerman's defense attorney Mark O’Mara told the jury during his closing arguments on Friday that they would be taking a break after nearly 1 hour and 20 minutes. He then set a timer for four minutes and let the jury ponder.

“That’s how long Trayvon Martin had to run. About four minutes,” O’Mara said, referring to the time that the unarmed black teen started to run and the time of the first 911 call about the fight between Martin and Zimmerman, who identifies himself as Hispanic. “He had four minutes. He told [witness] Rachel Jeantel that he was running.”

O’Mara’s tactic was intended to place doubt in the case against Zimmerman. In the highly publicized case, Florida state prosecutors are arguing that the volunteer community watchman murdered Martin. The defense claims Zimmerman, 29, was acting in self-defense when he shot and killed the 17-year-old teenager.

The 4-minute pause was also used to argue that Martin had enough time to get to his father’s home in Sanford, Fla., whom he was visiting on the night he was killed.

Before a 15-minute recess, O’Mara left the jury with this:

“Did they [prosecutors] show you, tell you, explain to you, give you any insight whatsoever on what Trayvon Martin was doing four minutes before that fight started at the T intersection?” he asked. “Do you have a doubt as to what Trayvon Martin was doing and what he must have been thinking for four minutes?


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Now explain to us why Martin should have run. It's possible Martin might have felt threatened and decided to stand his ground.
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Post by gmc »

YZGI;1431879 wrote: Actually GMC was making up "facts" , I didn't feel that was fair. Re-read his last couple of posts.


You're quite right it wasn't and I apologise. I was speaking hypothetically about the situation assuming zimmerman had followed martin up to the point he was attacked because that was the impression I had taken from the media coverage. Teach me to read things up properly before offering an opinion. :o
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gmc;1431885 wrote: You're quite right it wasn't and I apologise. I was speaking hypothetically about the situation assuming zimmerman had followed martin up to the point he was attacked because that was the impression I had taken from the media coverage. Teach me to read things up properly before offering an opinion. :o


No problem, I figured it was media driven. The distortions can sometimes be incredible.
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.....

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The fact: Trayvon Martin was on his way to his father's firend's house. He was unarmed. He didn't know Zimmerman.

The fact. Zimmerman carried a gun. He devoted for a task force to catch and arrest burglars. He actively track Trayvom. He called 911, alleged Zimmerman as suspicious.

Who was the man of provocation? Who had the motive to kill?

The rest mostly depends on Zimmerman's description. It turns a provocateur into a victim. That's why it's a bad case to encourage people to kill in argument. Because the dead could never have a voice. The killer takes too much advantage.
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katsung47;1432608 wrote: The fact: Trayvon Martin was on his way to his father's firend's house. He was unarmed. He didn't know Zimmerman.


SO?

katsung47;1432608 wrote: The fact: Trayvon Martin was on his way to his father's The fact. Zimmerman carried a gun. He devoted for a task force to catch and arrest burglars. He actively track Trayvom. He called 911, alleged Zimmerman as suspicious.


It would be nice if you had any idea of what you are talking about.

katsung47;1432608 wrote: Who was the man of provocation? Who had the motive to kill?


Provocation, motive.

katsung47;1432608 wrote: The rest mostly depends on Zimmerman's description. It turns a provocateur into a victim. That's why it's a bad case to encourage people to kill in argument. Because the dead could never have a voice. The killer takes too much advantage.


All evidence supports George Zimmerman.

Give it a rest.
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The ridiculous Trayvon Martin case

Post by Oscar Namechange »

katsung47;1432608 wrote: The fact: Trayvon Martin was on his way to his father's firend's house. He was unarmed. He didn't know Zimmerman.

The fact. Zimmerman carried a gun. He devoted for a task force to catch and arrest burglars. He actively track Trayvom. He called 911, alleged Zimmerman as suspicious.

Who was the man of provocation? Who had the motive to kill?

The rest mostly depends on Zimmerman's description. It turns a provocateur into a victim. That's why it's a bad case to encourage people to kill in argument. Because the dead could never have a voice. The killer takes too much advantage.


I can't agree,

Any killing unless accidental must have motive. If the shooting was even accidental, Z could have explained that away.

People extremely rarely shoot another with absolutely no motive. The motive It appears was that Z felt threatened. That Is the most plausable explanation.
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Accountable
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The ridiculous Trayvon Martin case

Post by Accountable »

Hey, Katsung. There is no Treyvon Martin. He never existed. No one died. It is all a conspiracy cooked up by the government to distract us.

I thought you knew.
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The ridiculous Trayvon Martin case

Post by katsung47 »

Trayvon Martin Video Shows No Blood or Bruises on George Zimmerman

By MATT GUTMAN (@mattgutmanABC)

March 28, 2012

Breaking: Brand New Enhanced Video of Zimmerman by ABC Clearly Shows Head Injuries - YouTube

In the video an officer is seen pausing to look at the back of Zimmerman's head, but no abrasions or blood can be seen in the video and he did not check into the emergency room following the police questioning.

Trayvon Martin Case: Exclusive Surveillance Video of George Zimmerman - ABC News
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The ridiculous Trayvon Martin case

Post by johnmont »

katsung47;1431658 wrote: The ridiculous Trayvon Martin case

It’s a failure of US judicial system. It failed to help the weak side people.

When it says Zimmerman is not guilty to kill Trayvon Martin, then what Trayvon was? He became an attacker – a threat to other’s life. That’s how a court to turn an innocent man to be a potential life threatener. An unarmed teen on his way to his relative’s house. He now was believed to be a threaten to other’s life. The other one, though proved having original bad will against Trayvon and finally killed him, became victim.

It indicates that any law abiding citizens should be obedient to unreasonable search (followed, monitored, provoked…). Or he would be killed, if the provoker announced that his life has been threatened.

This case also would encourage people to use guns in argument because dead people losing their voice in the case.If Zimmerman had spent his patrols getting to know the people who lived in the complex instead of playing Paul Kersey, Martin would still be alive.
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The ridiculous Trayvon Martin case

Post by Accountable »

"Complex"?
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The ridiculous Trayvon Martin case

Post by flopstock »

Excellent article, IMO

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The ridiculous Trayvon Martin case

Post by katsung47 »

Quote, "Zimmerman is an aggressive man. He is a vigilante. That doesn't say anything about "all neighborhood watch" people in general.

Washington Pos: May 28th: In July 2005, he was arrested for“resisting officer with violence.” (1) The neighborhood watch volunteer who wanted to be a cop got into a scuffle with cops who were questioning a friend for alleged underage drinking. The charges were reduced and then waived after he entered an alcohol education program. Then in August 2005, Zimmerman’s former fiance sought a restraining orderagainst him because of domestic violence. Zimmerman sought a restraining order against her in return. Both were granted. Meanwhile, over the course of eight years, Zimmerman made at least 46 calls to the Sanford (Fla.) Police Department reporting suspicious activity involving black males. (2)

(1)Zimmerman accused of domestic violence, fighting with a police officer - U.S. News

(2) Did Trayvon Shooter Abuse 911? - The Daily Beast

George Zimmerman Found Not Guily — iVillage

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