Iraq......what we all knew ?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:43 pm

Ten years on from the invasion, Iraq remains the most divisive war in recent history and the greatest intelligence failure in living memory.

Much of the key intelligence that was used to justify the war was based on fabrication, wishful thinking and lies - and as subsequent investigations showed, it was dramatically wrong. Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:38 pm

I feel your title Is a slight contradiction In terms just to be a tad pedantic... We didn't all know It did we ?

We believed It at the time...

Ha... we won't fall for that again will we ?

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:14 pm

oscar;1422788 wrote: ...

Ha... we won't fall for that again will we ?

Certainly have heard THAT before.

Wandrin · Post by **Wandrin** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:47 pm

LarsMac;1422789 wrote: Certainly have heard THAT before.

and look how well we have learned our lessons from the past.

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:17 pm

We believed It at the time...

No the vast majority of Americans did not, if they cared at all they did nothing. Many voices were raised but were snuffed by the media who at the time thought it was better to go along with the people beating the war drums than doing what they were supposed to do. Get facts. The war was shoved down Americas throat.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:38 am

Over 100,000 Iraqi deaths later, and the world wonders why they are still recruiting terrorists.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:58 am

His mistake was in allowing the world to believe he had wmds.

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:17 am

10 years on. It was better in ways under Saddams rule.

Deadly blasts rock Iraq 10 yrs after US 'freedom' invasion - YouTube

Saddam went to great lengths to prove he did not have them, inspectors knew he did not Flopstock. The US simply wanted any reason to invade, sensible minds were drowned out and shoved aside. Lies, deceit, misinformation, corruption, stupidity, zealotry and madness won the day.

Hitler and company could not have done better.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:05 am

A delicate religious balance shattered.

4,500 American soldiers dead.

37,000 American soldiers wounded.

200 billion dollars to be spent in medical care on them in the next few decades.

130,000 Iraqis dead

$2,000,000,000 dollars spent.

And for WHAT? What exactly have we gained at all...at all... from that war?! Democratic elections that are rigged? Sectarian violence that continues? American hatred increased in the region?

What a f*****g waste.

Bush = Worst. President. Ever.

Cheney= The Devil Incarnate

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:50 am

Scrat;1422798 wrote: No the vast majority of Americans did not, if they cared at all they did nothing. Many voices were raised but were snuffed by the media who at the time thought it was better to go along with the people beating the war drums than doing what they were supposed to do. Get facts. The war was shoved down Americas throat.

I agree. The media was complicit & did not do their jobs. They were so anxious to be "embedded" with the troops & knew they could not by investigating actual events. Truly disgraceful.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:19 am

flopstock;1422810 wrote: His mistake was in allowing the world to believe he had wmds. That's what I have said all along.

Sadam's downfall was Sadam himself... boasting and bragging about his wmd along with refusing to allow weapons Inspectors Into Iraq.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:23 am

Bruv;1422804 wrote: Over 100,000 Iraqi deaths later, and the world wonders why they are still recruiting terrorists.

Al Qaeda was alive and thriving long before the Invasion of Iraq....

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/033104.pdf

halfway · Post by **halfway** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:35 am

Congress voted and agreed.

That includes so many of the usual players.

We have left many honest and loyal supporters to die in Iraq. They now fear for their very lives because of their choice to embrace the hope of a new government.

It was strategic...and should have remained strategic. No-brainer when you are the world's super-power. Maybe let Russia and China have the reigns for a bit...that will surely end well.

Two tours...what do I know.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:03 pm

halfway;1422835 wrote: Congress voted and agreed.

That includes so many of the usual players.

We have left many honest and loyal supporters to die in Iraq. They now fear for their very lives because of their choice to embrace the hope of a new government.

It was strategic...and should have remained strategic. No-brainer when you are the world's super-power. Maybe let Russia and China have the reigns for a bit...that will surely end well.

Two tours...what do I know. So Iraq Invading Kuwait and the Iraq-Kuwait War seeing The Ba'athist Iraq occupy Kuwait for 7 months had nothing to do with It ?

halfway · Post by **halfway** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:04 pm

oscar;1422842 wrote: So Iraq Invading Kuwait and the Iraq-Kuwait War seeing The Ba'athist Iraq occupy Kuwait for 7 months had nothing to do with It ?

It was fully justified and supported on the world stage. Don't let the history-revisionists let you believe otherwise.

Post by **LarsMac** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:36 pm

oscar;1422842 wrote: So Iraq Invading Kuwait and the Iraq-Kuwait War seeing The Ba'athist Iraq occupy Kuwait for 7 months had nothing to do with It ?

If ever a country deserved invading, it was Kuwait.

And That had little to do with W's invasion of Iraq.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:37 pm

George W. held a long grudge for Saddam Hussein for his efforts to assassinate Bush41. This was known before the election of 2000 and it was said all the way back then that if GW won he would make Saddam pay. This was my expectation well before 9/11, that Iraq would be invaded. Neocon Payback. Even my elderly mother & her friends were already discussing this in the fall of 2000.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:43 pm

In the UK parliament has the final say. It's not just Tony Blair who should be called to answer but all those clapping monkeys who voted in favour even while they knew perfectly well it was wrong.

Foreign minister at the time robin cook resigned in protest, you might find tghis of interest

Robin Cook's Resignation Speech (in full) - YouTube

I particularly like the bit (6.30) where he points out it is only because saddam is so weak and has no WMD's that an invasion can even be contemplated.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:54 pm

halfway;1422835 wrote:

Two tours...what do I know.

Respect for you...must have been blasted tough.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:54 pm

I write this letter, my last letter, to you, Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney. I write not because I think you grasp the terrible human and moral consequences of your lies, manipulation and thirst for wealth and power. I write this letter because, before my own death, I want to make it clear that I, and hundreds of thousands of my fellow veterans, along with millions of my fellow citizens, along with hundreds of millions more in Iraq and the Middle East, know fully who you are and what you have done. You may evade justice but in our eyes you are each guilty of egregious war crimes, of plunder and, finally, of murder, including the murder of thousands of young Americans—my fellow veterans—whose future you stole.

Your positions of authority, your millions of dollars of personal wealth, your public relations consultants, your privilege and your power cannot mask the hollowness of your character. You sent us to fight and die in Iraq after you, Mr. Cheney, dodged the draft in Vietnam, and you, Mr. Bush, went AWOL from your National Guard unit. Your cowardice and selfishness were established decades ago. You were not willing to risk yourselves for our nation but you sent hundreds of thousands of young men and women to be sacrificed in a senseless war with no more thought than it takes to put out the garbage.

Truthdig - The Last Letter

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:56 pm

Ouch. Oh that stings!

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:08 pm

flopstock;1422810 wrote: His mistake was in allowing the world to believe he had wmds.I'm pretty certain in recalling that Hussein swore up and down that Iraq did not possess any WMD but Bush/Cheney didn't want to believe him. Inspections proved Hussein was actually being truthful but that wasn't enough for Bush/Cheney either and that's when they came up with the mobile WMD thing.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:01 pm

We do know that Sodom Insane used poison gas against Kurdish people. I see no reason to believe anything which Sodom Insane says, except after capture he said he pretended to have so called WMD's. Of course he would as to deter his enemies, such as Iran from attacking. That makes sense.

As far as our invading Iraq, was costly to be sure. Considering the expenditure, would have been better spent going against Iran.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:14 pm

tude dog;1422874 wrote: We do know that Sodom Insane used poison gas against Kurdish people. I see no reason to believe anything which Sodom Insane says, except after capture he said he pretended to have so called WMD's. Of course he would as to deter his enemies, such as Iran from attacking. That makes sense.

As far as our invading Iraq, was costly to be sure. Considering the expenditure, would have been better spent going against Iran.

Not Iran Saudi Arabia. It was saudi terrorists that attacked you not Iranians or Iraqis.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:24 pm

gmc;1422875 wrote: Not Iran Saudi Arabia. It was saudi terrorists that attacked you not Iranians or Iraqis.

Saudi terrorists, not Saudi Arabia.

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:06 pm

Saudi terrorists, not Saudi Arabia.

Considering your choice of words I don't see a big difference. Al Q was made by America, Osama Bin Laden was made by America. OBL is a Saudi, Al Q is a Saudi organization.

Who are you trying to bullshit?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:39 am

tude dog;1422874 wrote:

As far as our invading Iraq, was costly to be sure. Considering the expenditure, would have been better spent going against Iran.

Suspect 'expenditure' equals cash, forgetting the loss of sitting duck Iraqi lives.

'Going against' equals what ?

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:27 am

Scrat;1422888 wrote: Considering your choice of words I don't see a big difference. Al Q was made by America, Osama Bin Laden was made by America. OBL is a Saudi, Al Q is a Saudi organization.

Who are you trying to bullshit?

I am not making claims which can't be substantiated.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:36 am

Bruv;1422895 wrote: Suspect 'expenditure' equals cash, forgetting the loss of sitting duck Iraqi lives.

'Going against' equals what ?

Expenditure on many levels.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:12 pm

tude dog;1422880 wrote: Saudi terrorists, not Saudi Arabia.

So you are saying the invasion of iraq had nothing whatsoever to do with 911?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:42 pm

US plan for Iran 'pinpoint strike' ready

Thought it had been quiet too long

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:46 am

gmc;1422929 wrote: So you are saying the invasion of iraq had nothing whatsoever to do with 911?

Unless you could find something I am unaware of, yes.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:30 pm

tude dog;1422962 wrote: Unless you could find something I am unaware of, yes.

For once I would agree with you. 911 was very cynically used to set the ball rolling for an invasion of iraq. What's expressing about the whole thing is they got away with it.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:09 pm

gmc;1422964 wrote: For once I would agree with you. 911 was very cynically used to set the ball rolling for an invasion of iraq. What's expressing about the whole thing is they got away with it.

No, not at all. You just made a false statement.

I'm getting old, senile whatever. But I followed that whole argument to invade Iraq very closely and never, not ever was 9 11 given as a reason to go there.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:50 pm

tude dog;1422967 wrote: No, not at all. You just made a false statement.

I'm getting old, senile whatever. But I followed that whole argument to invade Iraq very closely and never, not ever was 9 11 given as a reason to go there.

I would argue that the fear and desire to hit back was cynically used and redirected to invade iraq rather than tackle the real terrorists of 911. I could post dozens of links to back up my assertion but I won't. Agreeing to disagree is also an option.

The Raw Story | Number of Americans who believe Saddam-9/11 tie rises to 41 percent

Perhaps most alarmingly, 41% of Americans answered 'Yes' to the question "Do you think Saddam Husseins regime in Iraq was directly involved in planning, financing, or carrying out the terrorist attacks of September 11th, 2001?"

That total is actually up 5 points since September 2004.

Further, a majority of people couldn't identify Saudia Arabia as the country of origin of most of the 9/11 hijackers, even given the question in multiple choice format. 20% answered Iraq, while 14% believed the hijackers came from Iran.

I knew quite a few british people who supported the war at the time because the notion that - in our case - the prime minister would tell lies to get his policy through was hard for them to grasp. They don't any more. It's actually politicised a large section of the youth round here as well quite a lot of them have friends from school who are in the armed forces for some it was a family tradition. 19-20 year olds often have friends still at school iraq and Afghanistan mean a bit more than names on the news.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:00 am

tude dog;1422967 wrote: No, not at all. You just made a false statement.

I'm getting old, senile whatever. But I followed that whole argument to invade Iraq very closely and never, not ever was 9 11 given as a reason to go there.

No, the gummint lackeys did not use 9/11 as an argument for the invasion, but there were many among the right-wing media who used stories and images of the events of 9/11 to support the invasion.

We were bullied into supporting the invasion, or told to sit down and shut up when we spoke up against it.

Every time I argued against it, some moron brought up the towers, or flight 93, or the like.

While there was the high end discussion about WMD going on and the administration was showing us satellite views of obscure buildings and trailers and such, done in the streets, people were beating the drums over the graves of 9/11

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:40 am

Bottom line is 9-11 was never given as a reason to invade Iraq, nor did anybody claim Saddam Hussein had any involvement.

Fact that polls report many people believed other wise is disturbing, but not surprising.

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:34 pm

Bullsh*t on that.

Walberg says Saddam Hussein funded 9/11 - YouTube

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:39 pm

And another. There's different ways to make a point when you use propaganda.

Cheney: I never linked Iraq with 9/11. Oh really? - YouTube

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:01 pm

Take a look at the aftermath. I think 1.7 TRILLION is a good estimate of what it will cost us, hell we borrowed money to do it. The politicians put it on a credit card. This is a staggering amount of money that we just threw down the sewer pipe. It boggles the mind.

Real cost of US war with Iraq: $1.7 trillion- MSN Money

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:07 am

Scrat;1423083 wrote: Take a look at the aftermath. I think 1.7 TRILLION is a good estimate of what it will cost us, hell we borrowed money to do it. The politicians put it on a credit card. This is a staggering amount of money that we just threw down the sewer pipe. It boggles the mind.

Real cost of US war with Iraq: $1.7 trillion- MSN Money

Well..............you were ALL looking at a few dollars for healthcare, campaigning for the right to bear arms etc. etc. and so they snuck in behind your back when you were otherwise occupied.

They put it on your children's credit card, and they tell you, you are free...................yea right.

My apologies, I just had a cynical head fart.............but I am back in the system now

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:59 pm

Look what the Iraqis got for it.

LiveLeak.com - Suicide bombing moment in Kirkuk Mosque- Rest In Peace -

katsung47 · Post by **katsung47** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:40 pm

Only 57 Churches Left In Iraq; From 300 In 2003

Christian News, The Christian Post

Iraq had 300 churches and 1.4 million Christians in 2003, but now only 57 churches and about half a million Christians remain with members of the minority fleeing Islamist attacks, according to local reports.