Best Home Defense...

halfway · Post by **halfway** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:03 am

Best home defense shotgun?

At least a 24 inch barrel 12 ga. with a 5 round capacity. Minimum.

Shortened stock with (preferably) a pistol grip.

And you?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:08 am

I live In England where we are not allowed to defend ourselves In a legal sense although our Prime Minister occassionally mutters some nonesense about home owners not being prosecuted for protecting themselves.

Having said that, I do have a weapon of such behind my front door and my local police have seen It when they call for tea with that ' I'll pretend I haven't seen that' type of look.

halfway · Post by **halfway** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:16 am

oscar;1415555 wrote: I live In England where we are not allowed to defend ourselves In a legal sense although our Prime Minister occassionally mutters some nonesense about home owners not being prosecuted for protecting themselves.

Having said that, I do have a weapon of such behind my front door and my local police have seen It when they call for tea with that ' I'll pretend I haven't seen that' type of look.

Tell 'em it's for zombies, ha!!!

It is nice have both the means and the "right" to defend one's self and family. I view it as a responsibility "I" have, and not some cop that is 30 minutes away.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:19 am

oscar;1415555 wrote: I live In England where we are not allowed to defend ourselves In a legal sense although our Prime Minister occassionally mutters some nonesense about home owners not being prosecuted for protecting themselves.

Having said that, I do have a weapon of such behind my front door and my local police have seen It when they call for tea with that ' I'll pretend I haven't seen that' type of look.

You know that's nonsense why do you keep repeating it? You are allowed to use reasonable force in self defence. If by any chance you are charged with something you would be judged by a jury of your peers. They decide guilt or otherwise not the police not the government.

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:28 am

I have never felt the need to be armed with anything. The likely hood of having an intruder is rare enough. One that might be armed would be even rarer.

I've never met anybody, either, who feels any different and that includes those who live in inner city areas. Guns are for the most part restricted to a few gang members who like to use them on each other.

Quoted by Oscar

I live In England where we are not allowed to defend ourselves In a legal sense

Have for centuries had the right to defend ourselves using reasonable force. You can repel force by force.

".... where a forcible and violent felony is attempted upon the person of another, the party assaulted, or his servant, or any other person present, is entitled to repel force by force, and, if necessary, to kill the aggressor ....".

British Self Defence Governing Body - Law Relating to Self Defence

If you are arguing for the right to blow the legs off an unarmed burglar, or shoot someone who is running away, then no you cant

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:29 am

I have a big knitting needle I keep in my bedroom.

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:32 am

SnoozeAgain;1415559 wrote: I have a big knitting needle I keep in my bedroom.

Does that mean you would knit a burglar a scarf to make him go away

halfway · Post by **halfway** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:37 am

Snowfire;1415560 wrote: Does that mean you would knit a burglar a scarf to make him go away

Always a good way to get on the good side of bad people.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:42 am

gmc;1415557 wrote: You know that's nonsense why do you keep repeating it? You are allowed to use reasonable force in self defence. If by any chance you are charged with something you would be judged by a jury of your peers. They decide guilt or otherwise not the police not the government.

You're talking bollocks...

Not sure so much now with new measures being reviewed but there used to be a ruling that you could keep a stick by your bed but not elsewhere In the house.

Taken from this article ;

How to beat the burglars this winter - Telegraph

'And although many people tell me they sleep with a baseball bat beside their bed for just such an occasion, a court can view that as an element of premeditation. If the burglar is hurt, it could be you who ends up in the dock.'

This however Is THE LAW In England...

However, you could be prosecuted if, for example, you:

" carry on attacking the intruder even if you’re no longer in danger

pre-plan a trap for someone - rather than involve the police"..... which Includes having a weapon ready for Intruders.

https://www.gov.uk/reasonable-force-against-intruders

If you Insist on this attempt to belittle me from thread to thread then get your facts right.... You're talking shi.t

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:06 am

Snowfire;1415560 wrote: Does that mean you would knit a burglar a scarf to make him go away

Yes, right after I perform a lobotomy.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:24 am

Whips, chains, large club like things and handcuffs don't go to waste in situations such as that either.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:24 am

I'd talk them out! :p

Post by **LarsMac** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:23 pm

It all depends upon from what, or whom you are defending your home.

I have Firearms, but have no intention of taking a life to defend my stuff.

Two rather large dogs (Malamutes) seem to deter the local burglars.

njdeco · Post by **njdeco** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:37 pm

If you live your life honestly there should be no need to defend yourselves. But if something happens get the paint brush and say you'll paint your intruder

well I've tried. Didn't work...

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:04 pm

halfway;1415554 wrote: Best home defense shotgun?

At least a 24 inch barrel 12 ga. with a 5 round capacity. Minimum.

Shortened stock with (preferably) a pistol grip.

And you?
Secure windows and doors ?

A half decent Police force ?

Proper exterior lighting ?

Ask the people that suffered from Sandy.........they could have had a nucleur arsenal.....wouldn't have mattered one jot.

Wandrin · Post by **Wandrin** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:37 pm

First you'd have to find my house, and that isn't easy. Then you'd have to explain it to my dog. Where I live, there is more concern about mountain lions than criminals.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:39 pm

halfway;1415554 wrote: Best home defense shotgun?

At least a 24 inch barrel 12 ga. with a 5 round capacity. Minimum.

Shortened stock with (preferably) a pistol grip.

And you?
The best home defense is a large dog with a loud bark (do malamutes bark??)

As for shotguns & home defense: You must live in a huge house! A 24-inch barrel? Really? That's a skeet gun. Too hard to maneuver in close quarters. And 12 gauge is overkill.

410 with a short barrel (19") and multi-shot, either pump, bolt, or semi-auto.

Personally, I'm thinking about getting a .22 rifle ... and a machete.

halfway · Post by **halfway** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:39 pm

Bruv;1415633 wrote: Secure windows and doors ?

A half decent Police force ?

Proper exterior lighting ?

I think your suggestions are obvious precautions and likely in place. Which one of those is the best home defense shotgun?

Thanks for contributing.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:41 pm

njdeco;1415632 wrote: If you live your life honestly there should be no need to defend yourselves.
:yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:44 pm

halfway;1415640 wrote: I think your suggestions are obvious precautions and likely in place. Which one of those is the best home defense shotgun?

Thanks for contributing.That's not what the title of this thread asks.

halfway · Post by **halfway** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:46 pm

Ahso!;1415643 wrote: That's not what the title of this thread asks.

"..." in the title and then the question in the post. Obvious to most.

Why am I talking to a dim witted monkey? Oh yeah, I am not.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:51 pm

halfway;1415644 wrote: "..." in the title and then the question in the post. Obvious to most.

Why am I talking to a dim witted monkey? Oh yeah, I am not.
I thought the title was general and your first post was a first category. I expected you to next go to handguns, electronic alarm systems, etc etc etc.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:35 pm

halfway;1415644 wrote: "..." in the title and then the question in the post. Obvious to most.

Why am I talking to a dim witted monkey? Oh yeah, I am not.It wasn't obvious to one person who replied,

halfway · Post by **halfway** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:35 pm

it was a lame topic anyway.

cheers

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:27 am

oscar;1415562 wrote: You're talking bollocks...

Not sure so much now with new measures being reviewed but there used to be a ruling that you could keep a stick by your bed but not elsewhere In the house.

Taken from this article ;

How to beat the burglars this winter - Telegraph

'And although many people tell me they sleep with a baseball bat beside their bed for just such an occasion, a court can view that as an element of premeditation. If the burglar is hurt, it could be you who ends up in the dock.'

This however Is THE LAW In England...

However, you could be prosecuted if, for example, you:

" carry on attacking the intruder even if you’re no longer in danger

pre-plan a trap for someone - rather than involve the police"..... which Includes having a weapon ready for Intruders.

https://www.gov.uk/reasonable-force-against-intruders

If you Insist on this attempt to belittle me from thread to thread then get your facts right.... You're talking shi.t

Pointing out you are talking nonsense is not belittling you it is pointing out you are talking nonsense. Bollocks is a slightly more argumentative word but if you like you were talking a load of them. The fact is you are wrong. Constantly repeating you are not allowed to defend yourself flies in the face of common sense and the legal reality. It's a myth perpetuated by the likes of the daily mail.

The Leicestershire couple were recently arrested after two men broke in and found themselves on the wrong end of Mr Ferrie’s (legal) shotgun. They were released after 66 hours in custody, and exonerated in court.

In cases of self defence juries tend not to convict. The English cps seem to view these things differently. My wife had a female acquaintance who hospitalised three attackers who accosted her while crossing the meadows in Edinburgh, an area where there have been several attacks on women. She was not charged the attackers were and the police were tickled pink. The martial arts association of which she was a member took a different view and suspended her membership feeling she used excessive force and shouldn't have lost her temper. I had another acquaintance who ended up also hospitalising a burglar who didn't leave when asked to. He wasn't charged either as it was a clear case of self defence.

posted by larsmac

Two rather large dogs (Malamutes) seem to deter the local burglars.

Do malamutes bark? think they don't just wondering.

Big difference of course in the UK a burglar is unlikely to be carrying a firearm.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:15 am

gmc;1415661 wrote: Pointing out you are talking nonsense is not belittling you it is pointing out you are talking nonsense. Bollocks is a slightly more argumentative word but if you like you were talking a load of them. The fact is you are wrong. Constantly repeating you are not allowed to defend yourself flies in the face of common sense and the legal reality. It's a myth perpetuated by the likes of the daily mail.

In cases of self defence juries tend not to convict. The English cps seem to view these things differently. My wife had a female acquaintance who hospitalised three attackers who accosted her while crossing the meadows in Edinburgh, an area where there have been several attacks on women. She was not charged the attackers were and the police were tickled pink. The martial arts association of which she was a member took a different view and suspended her membership feeling she used excessive force and shouldn't have lost her temper. I had another acquaintance who ended up also hospitalising a burglar who didn't leave when asked to. He wasn't charged either as it was a clear case of self defence.

posted by larsmac

Do malamutes bark? think they don't just wondering.

Big difference of course in the UK a burglar is unlikely to be carrying a firearm.

You are wrong.

You are confusing self-defence and legitimate self defence with premeditation.

And you are completely missing the point of the section of the article I gave.

If you find an Intruder In your home and he hits you or threatens to harm you, then yes, no jury will convict you for picking up the nearest object and hitting him with It to defend yourself.

If however, there Is a baseball bat behind your front door and you bash an Intruders head In BEFORE he has threatened you or harmed you In any way, It can be seen by the police and courts that It was premeditation to harm the Intruder come what may and It was not self defence but an act of violence.

If you are pulled over by the police and you have a tyre lever down the side of your seat, you will be told to put It In the boot...

Look out... Here comes Miss Marple

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:54 am

halfway;1415652 wrote: it was a lame topic anyway.

cheers

It's an excellent topic. I felt you left the OP open to interpretation which is perfectly fine.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:59 am

gmc;1415661 wrote:

Do malamutes bark? think they don't just wondering.

Because of the "mute" in their name?

Basenji don't bark.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:20 am

It Is a great topic... the UK not having guns means we can't enter the best shotgun debate but all the same, a great topic.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:29 am

SnoozeAgain;1415666 wrote: Because of the "mute" in their name?

Basenji don't bark.

Huskies don't either the type of barking we associate with dogs is something we bred in to them.

posted by oscar

If however, there Is a baseball bat behind your front door and you bash an Intruders head In BEFORE he has threatened you or harmed you In any way, It can be seen by the police and courts that It was premeditation to harm the Intruder come what may and It was not self defence but an act of violence.

By definition an intruder is someone who has intruded, the threat of violence is implied by their action so if a woman or anyone else belts somebody who has forced their way in to their house no jury would convict, apart from the oddity of having a baseball bat in the first place it would be rather difficult to prove it didn't just happen to be the first object that came to hand and keeping it by the door was nothing more than where you kept it. It's your word against his and he is in your house who do you think a jury would believe?

If you are pulled over by the police and you have a tyre lever down the side of your seat, you will be told to put It In the boot...

Does rather beg the question what grounds would they have to search your car? Driving a vehicle weighing in excess of a ton anyone trying to stop me or force entry had a bigger problem to worry about than a tyre lever. Should someone jump in beside you a tyre lever is too awkward to use in such a confined space, a pen would be more use. You can almost count on the fingers of two hands the number of people that have been prosecuted for defending themselves, one hand is all you need for those actually convicted by a jury and that usually because excess force had been used.

Tell you what oscar if you are attacked don't defend yourself for fear of being prosecuted then you can sue the daily mail for misleading you.

Anyway my apologies for diverting the thread somewhat. Just happy I live in a country where i don't have to worry about a lunatuic next door neighbour that might have a macjhine gun to my shotgun. Actually I'd have thought a handgun was a handier weapon for home defence, easier to keep on your person at all times than a 24 inch long shotgun.

halfway · Post by **halfway** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:54 am

oscar;1415668 wrote: It Is a great topic... the UK not having guns means we can't enter the best shotgun debate but all the same, a great topic.

Yeah, that was my point. Thanks.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:02 am

I have a dog...

and my cooking might be considered a weapon by some...

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:18 am

A moat with alligators works pretty good. If not a pistol, preferably a revolver. Semi autos that have sat around and not been used or cleaned for a long period of time may or may not fire.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:19 am

Or Flopstocks Tuna casserole might work.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:44 am

I was thinking of some really dangerous dog I saw on a doco... It's been driving me mad all day but I found It...

Presa Canario Shame their banned.......

The Presa Canario is a massive fighting dog hailing from Spain’s Canary Islands, generally weighing over a hundred pounds. Of diverse mastiff stock, the breed achieved notoriety in 2001 when a pair named Bane and Hera attacked and killed 33 year old lacrosse coach Diane Whipple in the hallway of a San Francisco apartment building. The dogs were originally bred for an Aryan Brotherhood fighting ring. Bane and Hera’s owner, Marjorie Knoller, was convicted of second degree murder (a landmark judgment at the time) and is currently serving a prison sentence of 15 years to life. Presa Canarios are banned in Australia and New Zealand.

Top 10 Banned Dog Breeds - Listverse

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:57 pm

oscar;1415562 wrote: You're talking bollocks...

Not sure so much now with new measures being reviewed but there used to be a ruling that you could keep a stick by your bed but not elsewhere In the house.

Taken from this article ;

How to beat the burglars this winter - Telegraph

'And although many people tell me they sleep with a baseball bat beside their bed for just such an occasion, a court can view that as an element of premeditation. If the burglar is hurt, it could be you who ends up in the dock.'

This however Is THE LAW In England...

However, you could be prosecuted if, for example, you:

" carry on attacking the intruder even if you’re no longer in danger

pre-plan a trap for someone - rather than involve the police"..... which Includes having a weapon ready for Intruders.

https://www.gov.uk/reasonable-force-against-intruders

If you Insist on this attempt to belittle me from thread to thread then get your facts right.... You're talking shi.t

So you should be - in neither case would it be self-defence.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:17 pm

I have two attack cats.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:27 pm

AnneBoleyn;1415753 wrote: I have two attack cats.

A good dog is far more use at keeping out burglars than a gun in the house - you don't even need to wake up

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:33 pm

Bryn Mawr;1415759 wrote: A good dog is far more use at keeping out burglars than a gun in the house - you don't even need to wake up

How about hiring this guy? He sits on the burglar 'til the cops come.

Attached files

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:37 pm

AnneBoleyn;1415761 wrote: How about hiring this guy? He sits on the burglar 'til the cops come.

I'll vote for that

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:38 pm

Is that Chris Christie?

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:39 pm

Ahso!;1415764 wrote: Is that Chris Christie?

You mean this guy already has another job?

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:34 pm

For home defense, we always have dogs. Over the decades, had several breeds. All adopted from local animal shelters. All alert and ready to bark. That is all I want.

Mossberg, 600, 18.5" barrel. That was a favorite of mine. Pump action, five with one in the pipe. Still good to go.

Once married, Mrs. Dog complained it was to big, heavy. So I went out and purchased a Model 10 S&W .38 Special. Convinced her she should give it a try. Did I say she had a .22 Saturday Night Special when I met her? Anyway, She just loved shooting that baby, and still does.

If need be, that .38 is our go to gun. But then there is always my .45 1911, always ready. Just Mrs. Dog, though loves shooting the 1911 .45, in times of stress does not want to worry about more than point and shoot. Smart woman.

Now the OP posted about "home defense". Seems we all have been concentrating on inside the home. How about outside the home? Buck knife, Ka-bar, gun, baseball bat?

Me, usually a gun.

halfway · Post by **halfway** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:00 am

Two thumbs up on the trusty .38.

Point, shoot, repeat as needed.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:18 am

tude dog;1415801 wrote:

Now the OP posted about "home defense". Seems we all have been concentrating on inside the home. How about outside the home? Buck knife, Ka-bar, gun, baseball bat?

Me, usually a gun.

I usually go with my wits however dangerous that may be.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:43 am

You do realise you give foreigners the impression that america is a very dangerous place to live don't you? Why are you all so fearful of attack?

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:55 am

gmc;1415890 wrote: You do realise you give foreigners the impression that america is a very dangerous place to live don't you? Why are you all so fearful of attack?

Some areas of America are dangerous. A lot of the larger inner cities are battle grounds for gangs. With 300,000,000 people there are likely to be dangerous places. I live in the center of the country and we have far less crime than the bigger cities. The only time I am fearful of attack is when I am in "one of the dangerous areas" which there really aren't any around me. I actually live in a small town outside of the city so I am in even more non dangerous area. We rarely lock our doors. However I do own guns, for hunting and sport shooting. I do not carry, no need around here.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:47 pm

gmc;1415890 wrote: You do realise you give foreigners the impression that america is a very dangerous place to live don't you? America is a very dangerous place for bad people.

halfway · Post by **halfway** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:58 pm

I spent a couple decades doing bad things to bad people. It was rewarding, but not without scars of all types.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:25 pm

halfway;1415906 wrote: I spent a couple decades doing bad things to bad people. It was rewarding, but not without scars of all types.

Is your real name Dexter?