Please don't feed wild animals that have lots of food to eat...

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Kathy Ellen
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Please don't feed wild animals that have lots of food to eat...

Post by Kathy Ellen »

@Oscar...This thread has nothing to do with you feeding the foxes. That's wonderful that you to do this. I'm concerned about the foxes in my area that live in a sheltered area with tons and tons of food to eat.

Sorry for the long post...

I really wish people wouldn't feed some of the wild animals in my town. I live between a huge bay and the Atlantic Ocean. I know it's fun for some, but it's not a good idea. Visitors feed the seagulls on the beach, and then the birds become pests and grab food from your hand or bag and poop all over you and your blanket and chair...lol...

I can't even go to McDonald's anymore as the seagulls and 'bagels' attack you and your car to get to the food.

We have many beautiful foxes in a nearby state park and people feed them. Now the foxes run out into the middle of the road when they hear a car and are killed because the driver didn't see them.

I'm especially upset about our Canada swans who choose to make my bay their home now. They are gorgeous creatures who have recently met human beings. These people decided that it would be fun to feed bread to the swans, gulls and mallards along the bay. Now, these birds have become such pests, it's ridiculous to me!! Why the **** anyone would feed bread and other garbage to birds who have tons and tons of food in the ocean and bay beyond me.

I no sooner parked my car, and all the birds came running towards me looking for handouts of food. I didn't feed them, only took their pic as they were coming closer to me. I'll post a pic in the next post of the swans.

The swans are now coming onto the street and one was killed recently by a car. The goats are not here yet to get rid of the poison ivy along the bay, and I've seen peeps throw food there. Wonder what will happen when the swans walk through the poison ivy.

I've decided that I'm going to take proactive measure and try to stop people from feeding the birds. I'd like for people to be aware that feeding the animals is dangerous for the animals and that they'd be fined if they continue to feed the animals. I'm not trying to be a bitch here, but when animals become pests, people become angry and kill the animals. A few years ago, the police found lots of dead seagulls on the beach. Seems that some angry men killed them with rocks.

This is so sad for me.
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WAMOMMA
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Please don't feed wild animals that have lots of food to eat...

Post by WAMOMMA »

My mother feeds and waters the fox and raccoon that live on her property in the city. A major city. It concerns me because of the health concerns she has. She likes to sneak out there and watch them. One of the racoon has a baby. I tell her that it is dangerous for her to get too close. Especially if they are rabid.
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Kathy Ellen
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Please don't feed wild animals that have lots of food to eat...

Post by Kathy Ellen »

Here are some of the animals who came over to me as the heard my car motor. They're looking for handouts.

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Snooz
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Please don't feed wild animals that have lots of food to eat...

Post by Snooz »

I don't get along with swans and geese, they chase me and scare the living daylights out of me.
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Kathy Ellen
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Please don't feed wild animals that have lots of food to eat...

Post by Kathy Ellen »

WAMOMMA;1406082 wrote: My mother feeds and waters the fox and raccoon that live on her property in the city. A major city. It concerns me because of the health concerns she has. She likes to sneak out there and watch them. One of the racoon has a baby. I tell her that it is dangerous for her to get too close. Especially if they are rabid.


Oscar has a special talent with her foxes. I believe that she's the 'fox whisper.'

But, I agree with you Wamomma. You never know when a wild animal can turn on you due to an illness. We also have a lot of feral cats here because people won't stop feeding them. The township now catches them and brings them to a local zoo called Popcorn Zoo. This zoo is great for helping animals in need and my school supports the zoo with lots of things that the animal as need. All the kidlets and teachers chip in tons stuff for the animals, and our school supplies a bus to bring us over the park to bring the goodies.
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Kathy Ellen
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Please don't feed wild animals that have lots of food to eat...

Post by Kathy Ellen »

SnoozeAgain;1406086 wrote: I don't get along with swans and geese, they chase me and scare the living daylights out of me.


I had a wall separating us. When the swan came over to me s(he) raised her wings and I realized how huge s(he) was. Her wing span must have been way over 5 ft. across. They are gorgeous creatures but will hunt you down if you annoy them.
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Kathy Ellen
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Please don't feed wild animals that have lots of food to eat...

Post by Kathy Ellen »

As an aside, I'm clarifying the fact that these animals used to visit us from Canada for a few weeks and then move on to the southern states. Now, due to weather changes and finding small coves to hide in, they have become citizens of NJ...Hahahah....

The Canada geese are a big problem here, and I'm worried about them.

At least the Canada swans stay in the water (until now). The geese run amock on all the grassy and watery areas. They leave tons of poop everywhere.

It's gotten to a point where it's unhealthy. People are becoming angry at the geese and want to hurt them.

I'm hoping for a solution...soon!!
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along-for-the-ride
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Please don't feed wild animals that have lots of food to eat...

Post by along-for-the-ride »

Hey Kathy!

I thought I'd add this link to your thread:

WCVC - Eight Reasons Why You Shouldn't Feed Wildlife
Life is a Highway. Let's share the Commute.
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Kathy Ellen
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Post by Kathy Ellen »

Thank you Diana...that's wonderful!!
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Oscar Namechange
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Please don't feed wild animals that have lots of food to eat...

Post by Oscar Namechange »

All Fox are from the same species ' Vulpes Vulpes' although there are varying types around the world, their genetic make up Is the same...

I encourage anyone who Is privaliged to have Fox visit them to feed them.... for the following reasons...

First of all... the myth that feeding them will encourage numbers.... this can not happen.

Fox be It Urban or Red Fox are fiercely territorial. In this country, If you caught an Urban Fox and released him deep In countryside, you could actually face a charge of abandonment.

Any Injured Fox upon his release Is always released exactly where he was found due to In territory fighting.

Foxes do not roam In large packs... that's another myth, They have small family units to each territory that consists of an Alpha Dog male, an Alpha Vixen and a subordinate Dog with a subordinate Vixen.

The two vixens will give birth to around 4 cubs each.... should something happen to one of the vixens, the other will take other her cubs so they survive.

When all the cubs reach approx 9 months old, the Alpha's will oust the cubs who will disperse to take old territories or create a new one. Often, If the alpha male or vixen meets an untimely death, the subordinate will take the alpha's place and a cub may return to that family to become the subordinate.

The most Important thing to understand Is the life span of an urban or Red Fox which Is just two years. A captive Fox like a canine can live up to 14 years but wild, It's just two years.... This means that newly ousted cubs only replace the demise of previous Foxes... not add to the numbers as some rabid pro-hunters will have you believe.

Two years providing they haven't been hit by cars, shot or killed on railway lines..

Unlike other wildlife, the Fox does not have one big meal of the night. Their natural trait Is to graze and cache food for hard times. It's an Inbuilt nature trait to store food and It's why a Fox will kill every chicken In the chicken house. His Intention Is to come back and remove each chicken to his earth one by one to store. Most times, they will get disturbed by the noise In the chicken house and the alarm Is raised not giving them a chance to return. They do not kill for fun. Their desire to cache as much food as possible for hard times Is as Inbuilt as the desire for a swallow to fly south or a squirrel to store nuts.

As for Fox Hunting... It Is futile... Given the short life span of a Fox and the fierce territorial traits, the moment you kill one Fox on the land, a newly ousted cub will take over the territory thus never ridding the land of Fox generations.

Once a year the 9 month old cubs are ousted from the family and the size of the group returns to the Alpha's and the subordinates, thus, the family numbers only Increase while cubs are growing.

The staple diet of any Fox Is earth worms... second It Is small rodents... the reason you see so many Fox on railway lines. During winter when the ground Is frozen and they can not dig with rodents In short supply, their only source of food Is birds If they get lucky and road kill. If this Is In short supply, Urban Foxes turn to trash cans and why you start seeing them In gardens. The problem In the UK Is that since the Introduction of the Wheelie bin, Fox can not get In to them and In a hard winter, this Is when the Fox becomes dangerous. They do not kill cats... that's bollocks... no Fox Is a match for a cat In a fight nor can a Fox out-run a cat. However, In a hard winter, pet rabbits In hutches etc are at risk.

If your visiting Fox has enough for a small meal each night with enough to take away to cache, your neighbourhood has absolutely no reason to experience any problem.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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tude dog
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Please don't feed wild animals that have lots of food to eat...

Post by tude dog »

I have no idea where in NJ you can hunt, but Canada Geese taste very good.



NJ Regulations.

CANADA GOOSE

September Season (Statewide)

Sept. 1 - Sept. 29

Daily bag limit: 15 Canada geese

NOTE: THESE SPECIAL REGULATIONS ONLY APPLY TO THE SEPTEMBER CANADA

GOOSE SEASON

Regular Season (50 days)

North Zone: Nov. 10 – Nov. 24 Dec. 15 - Jan. 26

South Zone: Nov. 17 – Dec. 1 Dec. 15 - Jan. 26

Coastal Zone: Nov. 22 – Dec. 1 Dec. 6 - Jan. 22

Daily bag limit: 3 singly or in aggregate to include cackling and white-fronted geese

Special Winter Season (Two Zones)

Jan. 28 – Feb. 15

Our season doesn't start till



Kansas

CANADA GEESE

•Season: Oct. 27-Nov. 4, 2012 and Nov. 7, 2012-Feb. 10, 2013

•Area open: Statewide



Wish I brought a camera with me, but the past couple of weeks been fishing at a nearby lake and saw hundreds of them.
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Oscar Namechange
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

I've been going to the grounds of a hotel In Frenchay to feed the Canadian Geese for years... I love seeing the new chicks and watching them grow. I've not ever noticed a rise In numbers due to my feeding them.

Sorry Kathy, no disrespect to you, but I get quite put out when anyone talks of a nuisence species.

We all have a place on this planet and no doubt we were all put here for a reason. It Is only the human species that decides weather one species Is a nuisence or not cute and fluffy enough for our liking. I don't think we have that right.

I remember once when I was on South Glou council.... residents got together and demanded we cull flocks of Starlings, why? because they were getting bird poop on their parked cars... that really sums up the selfishness and the me, me, me generation. Obviousley their request was laughed out of the building although some knob did suggest we Introduce some hawks Into the area. Derrrrrr !!!!

Mother nature has done a very good job at controlling the numbers of other species before man decided what can and can't share our planet with us. It should be left to her.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
koan
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Post by koan »

We have tons of deer that wander from house to house and across the streets in my neighbourhood. I love them but wouldn't dream of feeding them. They obviously know how to find their own food and should continue to do so. My neighbours... all of them, consider the deer to be pests. The grocer at the corner sells "anti-deer" plants. One reason to not feed them or encourage them is pretty much the same reason you have to cut the grass on your lawn; neighbourhoods have a sort of contract where you maintain your property in a way that does not degrade the neighbourhood.

Kathy Ellen's concerns are extremely valid. You can enjoy seeing wildlife up close without taking the wild out of wildlife by feeding them and changing the relationship between people and non domesticated animals. Thinking that you are helping them is egotistically flawed. Unless they are visibly injured they don't need your help.
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Oscar Namechange
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Anyone who thinks that does not understand wildlife at all.

Man dictates what is a nuisence species not the animals themselves.

What Is the primary whine when wild animals start to come Into towns and cities?

Why do they do It ?

They do because In hard times they are short of food and need to scavenge. Man has an abundance of wasted food.

You can not expect man to consume and throw out the vast amounts of food that we do on this planet and then whine because In hard times, some species are rooting around back yard bins, It's mans consumer greed that has led much wildlife to look for alternative sources humans domain.

Even wolves begged scraps from cavemen.

You are not taking away any animals natural desire to hunt If you give them a helping hand In hard times providing you never try to tame or hand feed.

Curb the consumer greed and wildlife will cease to look there for food.

Take Foxes.... give them enough for a meal each night with some extra to cache and you'll have no trouble from them In your neighbourhood. In winter when they can not dig for worms and rodents are scarce, they'll look to raid chicken coops and trash bins.

It's about co-existence and not believing we are some superior smart arsse species who takes priority.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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tude dog
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Post by tude dog »

oscar;1406412 wrote: Mother nature has done a very good job at controlling the numbers of other species before man decided what can and can't share our planet with us. It should be left to her.


Mother Nature is brutal. MN doesn't give a rip. Spices over populate, devastate all available food, starve. If any survive they will be few and weak. Sometimes they become extinct.

Far as I know, Man is the only animal which has the concept of preserving a dying species:-5.

I hunt, I fish. I have a vested interest in conservation of local wild life. Fortunately, so does the State of Kansas.

Folks from all around come here to enjoy what we have, bringing lots of money to spend.:-6. It may offend some I don't have some altruistic reason for my attitude, so be it. I am a realist.

We, like other states have regulations concerning local wild life. I am grateful our state seems to be doing a good enough job. I can go hunt,fish, state gets tourist dollars.

Not only me and the state, the wildlife remains healthy.

While on the subject, I thought this may interest ya.

In much of the mid-west, hogs are a big problem, but yet in Kansas hog hunting is illegal. This explains why.



Kansas winning war against wild hogs | Wichita Eagle
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Oscar Namechange
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

tude dog;1406431 wrote: Mother Nature is brutal. MN doesn't give a rip. Spices over populate, devastate all available food, starve. If any survive they will be few and weak. Sometimes they become extinct.

Far as I know, Man is the only animal which has the concept of preserving a dying species:-5.

I hunt, I fish. I have a vested interest in conservation of local wild life. Fortunately, so does the State of Kansas.

Folks from all around come here to enjoy what we have, bringing lots of money to spend.:-6. It may offend some I don't have some altruistic reason for my attitude, so be it. I am a realist.

We, like other states have regulations concerning local wild life. I am grateful our state seems to be doing a good enough job. I can go hunt,fish, state gets tourist dollars.

Not only me and the state, the wildlife remains healthy.

While on the subject, I thought this may interest ya.

In much of the mid-west, hogs are a big problem, but yet in Kansas hog hunting is illegal. This explains why.



Kansas winning war against wild hogs | Wichita Eagle Great Post

Thanks for the link, that's Interesting...

My surroundings are a perfect example off why I put It down to man and consumer greed.

When I first moved to Bristol, my village was the outlying village. I enjoyed fields, woods, nature trails etc etc.... but mans greed and consumer greed saw property developers build 12,000 new homes In just 12 years and they are still building despite local opposition and protests. To accomodate the residents of 12,000 new homes, up went shops, retail outlets etc etc etc....

Then... oh surprise surprise, the council start getting calls from pissed off residents because god forbid, they've seen a Fox, or Badger In their back yard and they want the council to come out and kill It........ never mind they have bought a new house on countryside that was the home of the wildlife for hundreds of years before them.

Then, to deal with mans greed and consumer waste, up went a landfill site In the village. The wildlife was pushed out by the building of new residential homes and they're source of natural food such as rabbits and rodents dried up.... rather than starve... naturally, they turn to the landfill site which is on a main road....Then, your truely, ie, me, start getting calls from local police.... ' Sorry to bother you Julie, we've got another one hit by a car on the main road'....

So my choice to feed my generation of Fox to save them crossing the main road to scavenge In the landfill?......... Too right I do.

Our Foxes co-exist with us and our neighbours.... we give them enough food and In return they don't raid chicken houses, pet rabbit hutches, turn over trash cans and we never see rats or mice thanks to them..... that's called co-existence. Mutual benefits to both sides exactly as when caveman started taking wolf cubs to guard them.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
koan
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Post by koan »

Saying that we should feed wild animals because our urban centers displaced them ignores the fact that you are still doing so in an urban location. The pavement and concrete don't disappear because you fed a wild animal. You don't transform the city into a Disney setting where foxes hold a basket in their teeth while you pick berries, birds lace up your corset for you and lay the table spread in your living room while you sing. Nope. You go back into your house and they stay outside, surrounded by other people who don't like them very much.

I am quite happy keeping the deer cautious to approach me. They should be afraid. If you want to feed animals and bond with them, go to a conservation site to do it.

Feeding wildlife on a regular basis is similar in problem to globalizing food production. The US drought conditions are going to impact food prices around the world because those countries were made dependent on US corn. Don't see the connection? You should.
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Oscar Namechange
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

And why exactly do you think that Wildlife In the main the Western world has started to encroach Into towns and cities?

Don't see the connection? You should.

http://science.time.com/2012/09/18/urba ... hem-right/
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Post by koan »

Just imagining the human equivalent and got laughing. Think of some children from a poor home out picking wild raspberries. A stranger walks up and dangles a cooked chicken in front of them. That's just creepy.

If the children were taught right, they'd scream and run away. And so they should.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

And you think that urbanised wildlife suddenly accustom their offspring to approach humans? If you think that, you do not understand wildlife.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
koan
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Post by koan »

oscar, I have not been arguing with you. My posts remain linear if your posts are removed from the conversation. I looked up what arguments people use to support feeding wildlife and posted my thoughts on them. That your point of view is typical to what others say is coincidental.

eta: obviously this single post is directed at you. If I don't say your name or quote you, I'm probably not talking to you.
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Oscar Namechange
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

koan;1406442 wrote: oscar, I have not been arguing with you. My posts remain linear if your posts are removed from the conversation. I looked up what arguments people use to support feeding wildlife and posted my thoughts on them. That your point of view is typical to what others say is coincidental.

eta: obviously this single post is directed at you. If I don't say your name or quote you, I'm probably not talking to you. Likewise
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Post by tude dog »

oscar;1406441 wrote: And you think that urbanised wildlife suddenly accustom their offspring to approach humans? If you think that, you do not understand wildlife.


Great point.

Deer for breakfast anyone?

I don't believe that happened overnight.
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Kathy Ellen
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Post by Kathy Ellen »

oscar;1406412 wrote: I've been going to the grounds of a hotel In Frenchay to feed the Canadian Geese for years... I love seeing the new chicks and watching them grow. I've not ever noticed a rise In numbers due to my feeding them.

Sorry Kathy, no disrespect to you, but I get quite put out when anyone talks of a nuisence species.

We all have a place on this planet and no doubt we were all put here for a reason. It Is only the human species that decides weather one species Is a nuisence or not cute and fluffy enough for our liking. I don't think we have that right.

I remember once when I was on South Glou council.... residents got together and demanded we cull flocks of Starlings, why? because they were getting bird poop on their parked cars... that really sums up the selfishness and the me, me, me generation. Obviousley their request was laughed out of the building although some knob did suggest we Introduce some hawks Into the area. Derrrrrr !!!!

Mother nature has done a very good job at controlling the numbers of other species before man decided what can and can't share our planet with us. It should be left to her.


No offense taken Julie :-). We're all entitled to our own opinion.
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Kathy Ellen
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Post by Kathy Ellen »

tude dog;1406240 wrote: I have no idea where in NJ you can hunt, but Canada Geese taste very good.



NJ Regulations.

CANADA GOOSE

September Season (Statewide)

Sept. 1 - Sept. 29

Daily bag limit: 15 Canada geese

NOTE: THESE SPECIAL REGULATIONS ONLY APPLY TO THE SEPTEMBER CANADA

GOOSE SEASON

Regular Season (50 days)

North Zone: Nov. 10 � Nov. 24 Dec. 15 - Jan. 26

South Zone: Nov. 17 � Dec. 1 Dec. 15 - Jan. 26

Coastal Zone: Nov. 22 � Dec. 1 Dec. 6 - Jan. 22

Daily bag limit: 3 singly or in aggregate to include cackling and white-fronted geese

Special Winter Season (Two Zones)

Jan. 28 � Feb. 15

Our season doesn't start till



Kansas

CANADA GEESE

�Season: Oct. 27-Nov. 4, 2012 and Nov. 7, 2012-Feb. 10, 2013

�Area open: Statewide



Wish I brought a camera with me, but the past couple of weeks been fishing at a nearby lake and saw hundreds of them.


Sorry Tube Dog, I'm not into hunting.
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Oscar Namechange
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

tude dog;1406448 wrote: Great point.

Deer for breakfast anyone?

I don't believe that happened overnight. What I glean from that video Is that the humans are camping on the Deer's usual habitat. The humans here are as It should be....embrace the fact that the land held these creatures long before they got there and co-exist with them... not drive them away just because the human wants to camp there. That's the selfish way of the me generation now. I've got a new house so I expect no other creature to come near me.

For eg... The British Red Fox Is fiercely territorial and will fight to the death If need be to protect that territory. They don't wake up one morning and think ' look at that, someone-s built a house where I go hunting for food... maybe I should move my family'.... they stay on that territory and adapt to the fact that there Is humans around them.... that's how the Red Fox became urbanised In the 1930's In England when due to a post war property boom, developers began building on Greenbelt ( Countryside). The sad part Is, that some humans didn't accept that and couldn't understand they were on the Foxes land not the other way around.

Since the 1930's Foxes have become Urbanised here and the Interesting part Is that a Red Fox will cross over from Countryside Into a town but an Urban Fox will never cross over out of the town Into the Countryside. The reason is self explanatory.... with more and more new homes being built on Countryside, the Red Fox Is forced Into Urbanisation.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Kathy Ellen;1406451 wrote: Sorry Tube Dog, I'm not into hunting. It's not a hunting video Kathy... It's campers sharing thei breakfast with the Deer...... quite lovely.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Post by tude dog »

Kathy Ellen;1406451 wrote: Sorry Tube Dog, I'm not into hunting.


I'm sorry, that wasn't my point.

We're talking about urbanization of wildlife and ability to adapt, especially when people feed them, or so that was where I was going with that video.

They lose fear of humans.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

tude dog;1406455 wrote: I'm sorry, that wasn't my point.

We're talking about urbanization of wildlife and ability to adapt, especially when people feed them, or so that was where I was going with that video.

They lose fear of humans.


Some species yes, . Not Foxes.

Some people In the UK argue that Urban Foxes have become bolder.... I say ' OK, you try picking that one up'...
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Post by koan »

tude dog;1406448 wrote: Great point.

Deer for breakfast anyone?

I don't believe that happened overnight.
That video led to a whole bunch of others showing the risk of not respecting wild animals as wild.

It's interesting the fairly equal mix assessments you find online as to whether it is okay or not. In most of Canada it's illegal... so that's that. I know for a fact that, in my neighbourhood and most others, it's considered rude to your neighbours. It also seems to be invariably for the selfish purposes of the person feeding. They feel like the animal recognized them as "safe" or "good" and the personal reward is what motivates them. Surely no one thinks that the animals would starve unless provided food.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

tude dog;1406455 wrote: I'm sorry, that wasn't my point.

We're talking about urbanization of wildlife and ability to adapt, especially when people feed them, or so that was where I was going with that video.

They lose fear of humans.


As It happens, I am not condoning the feeding of all wildlife... In England we have very few native species.... we don't have bears and deers coming Into back yards.

Birds do come Into towns and cities simply because there Is an abundance of discarded food. That's mans consumer greed and waste being readilly available not so much man feeding them.

With Foxes, It's slightly different... No-one goes Into deep countryside just to feed Red Foxes... I certainly wouldn't.... there's an abundance of rabbits for them.

However Urban Foxes Is a different matter.... they are already Urbanised. It has absolutely nothing to do with humans feeding them and It didn't begin that way. It began with the mass building of homes on Countryside post war.

If you have a wild animal, any wild animal who's Inbuilt traits are to defend his territory, they are not going to simply move out because man has built houses on his land. Once cubs are born In towns and cities on that old land, they are not going to cross back over Into deep countryside.... that's something man didn't take Into account when they built on Greenbelt.

Man has caused Foxes to become urbanised. They have created the beast not humans getting soft and start feeding them. Anyone who thinks or thought they'd just go elsewhere when the building began Is an Idiot and knows nothing of their life cycles.

We recently had a Nationwide survey here In the UK re: Urban Foxes and the results showed that over 80% of the population accept them and are happy to live among them.
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oscar;1406487 wrote: If you have a wild animal, any wild animal who's Inbuilt traits are to defend his territory, they are not going to simply move out because man has built houses on his land. Once cubs are born In towns and cities on that old land, they are not going to cross back over Into deep countryside.... that's something man didn't take Into account when they built on Greenbelt.

Man has caused Foxes to become urbanised. They have created the beast not humans getting soft and start feeding them. Anyone who thinks or thought they'd just go elsewhere when the building began Is an Idiot and knows nothing of their life cycles.

We recently had a Nationwide survey here In the UK re: Urban Foxes and the results showed that over 80% of the population accept them and are happy to live among them.


That explains a lot of of why turkeys, ducks and deer in my sisters neighborhood.

She lives in a Northern California city of about 58,000 people. With the rapid urbanization if you hadn't been there in 30 years, you wouldn't recognize the place.







Those are all around her house.

Obvious the ducks would not survive in her swimming pool. Sis did gather up the ducklings took them to an agency which would be able to prepare them and reintroduce them to the country side. She was unable to catch the mama duck who looked desperately for her young.

Far as I know, man and beast are getting along well enough, so be it.

Getting along isn't always the case. Not to infrequently there are stories of different species for whatever reason finding there way into urban areas causing all kinds of problems.

I would say the biggest problem here are deer don't comprehend automobiles at all statewide causing something like 7000 car vs deer collisions a year.

Dead deer, totaled cars. Sometimes injured or killed people, usually when driver driving a fast speed swerves to avoid collision and rolls the car or whatever.
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tude dog;1406494 wrote: That explains a lot of of why turkeys, ducks and deer in my sisters neighborhood.

She lives in a Northern California city of about 58,000 people. With the rapid urbanization if you hadn't been there in 30 years, you wouldn't recognize the place.







Those are all around her house.

Obvious the ducks would not survive in her swimming pool. Sis did gather up the ducklings took them to an agency which would be able to prepare them and reintroduce them to the country side. She was unable to catch the mama duck who looked desperately for her young.

Far as I know, man and beast are getting along well enough, so be it.

Getting along isn't always the case. Not to infrequently there are stories of different species for whatever reason finding there way into urban areas causing all kinds of problems.

I would say the biggest problem here are deer don't comprehend automobiles at all statewide causing something like 7000 car vs deer collisions a year.

Dead deer, totaled cars. Sometimes injured or killed people, usually when driver driving a fast speed swerves to avoid collision and rolls the car or whatever. Thanks for sharing the pics.... that's awesome...

When you enter the field of birds and wildfowl, we are now entering a rather more complex problem. All birds and waterfowl have some sort of migration path and Instinct to take that path with stop off's to eat and re-energise.

Same with the Urban Fox, If you put houses on a Migration path, no-one can seriously expect those birds to take a different route... we would be talking about thousands of years of evolution before the birds changed the migration path... If they ever did.

We do get Deer here... my brother many years ago escaped with his life after one wrote his MGB off...here

http://www.parhaminsussex.co.uk/the-gar ... -park.html

He was on his way home late at night at one spooked, jumped the wall and went straight through his windscreen nearly killing him.
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Please don't feed wild animals that have lots of food to eat...

Post by Betty Boop »

I'm still getting my head around why some shouldn't feed wild animals, and why some should.

Wild animals shouldn't be fed.

Seagulls are another species that shouldn't be fed, they cause no end of problem in coastal areas to the point of small children and adults being attacked for their ice creams, pasty or whatever else they may happen to be trying to eat at the time. It's led to sea side towns having to warn people not to eat out of doors.
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Betty Boop;1406886 wrote: I'm still getting my head around why some shouldn't feed wild animals, and why some should.

Wild animals shouldn't be fed.

Seagulls are another species that shouldn't be fed, they cause no end of problem in coastal areas to the point of small children and adults being attacked for their ice creams, pasty or whatever else they may happen to be trying to eat at the time. It's led to sea side towns having to warn people not to eat out of doors.


Seagulls actually provide a valuable service to man that goes unrecognised.

[moderator note]They are garbage men (sanitation engineers for the politically correct) with wings. They scavenge up great numbers of dead animals and organic litter which could pose a health threat to humans.
plagiarized from http://www.squidoo.com/glaucous-winged-gull-family [/moderator note]

Exactly the same as your Urban Fox.... If you never see a rat or mouse In the near vicinity of your home, then you have a Fox.

[moderator note]following quote plagiarized from source acknowledged later as http://www.helium.com/items/2051533-sho ... controlled [/moderator note]

We have to remember also that the gulls flight path has stayed the same for thousands of years, long before we came on the scene. They were here before us, yet It Is us who have set up barriers for them. What gives human beings the right to try and control any species that migrates?

The fact that the migration path of some animals lies directly smack bang over a town, or a city, well whose fault Is that? It's certainly not nature's fault that man so chose to build on land that was part of the migration map of some animals and birds. The sheer audacity of man In thinking that he can try and control what enters our towns and cities....what next? Whales? Insects? Fish?


Towns and cities are awash with mans consumer greed. Food Is thrown In the street and bins are stuffed full of waste.

If the migration path happens to be over a town where the Gulls have become a nuisence, then clean up all food waste from the street. Start fining people £200 for dropping their food In the street.... when man gets his act together and cleans up the streets and disposes of food waste efficiently, then Gulls may be less of a problem.

If you don't want to be dive bombed by an aggressive gull, then people shouldn't take food on to the beach or stroll through the streets with a Greggs Pasty In their hand.
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oscar;1406898 wrote: Seagulls actually provide a valuable service to man that goes unrecognised.

They are garbage men (sanitation engineers for the politically correct) with wings. They scavenge up great numbers of dead animals and organic litter which could pose a health threat to humans.

Exactly the same as your Urban Fox.... If you never see a rat or mouse In the near vicinity of your home, then you have a Fox.

We have to remember also that the gulls flight path has stayed the same for thousands of years, long before we came on the scene. They were here before us, yet It Is us who have set up barriers for them. What gives human beings the right to try and control any species that migrates?

The fact that the migration path of some animals lies directly smack bang over a town, or a city, well whose fault Is that? It's certainly not nature's fault that man so chose to build on land that was part of the migration map of some animals and birds. The sheer audacity of man In thinking that he can try and control what enters our towns and cities....what next? Whales? Insects? Fish?

Towns and cities are awash with mans consumer greed. Food Is thrown In the street and bins are stuffed full of waste.

If the migration path happens to be over a town where the Gulls have become a nuisence, then clean up all food waste from the street. Start fining people £200 for dropping their food In the street.... when man gets his act together and cleans up the streets and disposes of food waste efficiently, then Gulls may be less of a problem.

If you don't want to be dive bombed by an aggressive gull, then people shouldn't take food on to the beach or stroll through the streets with a Greggs Pasty In their hand.


Is the BIB a quote, Oscar?
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theia;1406902 wrote: Is the BIB a quote, Oscar? Yes... here's the link



Should seagulls and their migration be controlled? - by Wayne Leon Learmond - Helium

Did a bit of reading today to see why Gulls seem to be getting more and more aggressive and everything just comes back to flight paths and mans food.
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oscar;1406904 wrote: Yes... here's the link



Should seagulls and their migration be controlled? - by Wayne Leon Learmond - Helium

Did a bit of reading today to see why Gulls seem to be getting more and more aggressive and everything just comes back to flight paths and mans food.


Slightly off topic, but the author sounds quite interesting from what I read
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theia;1406905 wrote: Slightly off topic, but the author sounds quite interesting from what I read
I started off looking for Gull Migration patterns to see If there was a flight path where Betty lives and found her blog... It was Indeed Interesting.

When I was a kid my parents had a chalet bungalow on the cliffs at Brixham In Devon. It was a fore gone understanding that If you ate food In the street, you got what you deserved from the Gulls... but we used them to our advantage... back then they had a fish market and the trawlers came In about 5 am... The Gulls would swoop as they unloaded the catch but the trick was to watch the Gulls who picked up the largest fish. We used to run after them because more often than not, If the fish was too big or heavy, they's drop It after a few yards and we got free fish for dinner.
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Please don't feed wild animals that have lots of food to eat...

Post by Betty Boop »

oscar;1406898 wrote: Seagulls actually provide a valuable service to man that goes unrecognised.

They are garbage men (sanitation engineers for the politically correct) with wings. They scavenge up great numbers of dead animals and organic litter which could pose a health threat to humans.

Exactly the same as your Urban Fox.... If you never see a rat or mouse In the near vicinity of your home, then you have a Fox.

We have to remember also that the gulls flight path has stayed the same for thousands of years, long before we came on the scene. They were here before us, yet It Is us who have set up barriers for them. What gives human beings the right to try and control any species that migrates?

The fact that the migration path of some animals lies directly smack bang over a town, or a city, well whose fault Is that? It's certainly not nature's fault that man so chose to build on land that was part of the migration map of some animals and birds. The sheer audacity of man In thinking that he can try and control what enters our towns and cities....what next? Whales? Insects? Fish?

Towns and cities are awash with mans consumer greed. Food Is thrown In the street and bins are stuffed full of waste.

If the migration path happens to be over a town where the Gulls have become a nuisence, then clean up all food waste from the street. Start fining people £200 for dropping their food In the street.... when man gets his act together and cleans up the streets and disposes of food waste efficiently, then Gulls may be less of a problem.

If you don't want to be dive bombed by an aggressive gull, then people shouldn't take food on to the beach or stroll through the streets with a Greggs Pasty In their hand.


Migration has got nothing to do with it Oscar.

Feeding the wildlife is the problem.

'People' think 'aaawww look, let's feed them', and they do, some people that live here do it, some holiday makers throw their chips at them then marvel as they swarm in, then a few mins later you will witness the holidaymakers running away screaming in fear as they get mobbed.

Indeed, it is man's fault, but not because we're trying to change migration or their right to be here but because some idiots think they are cute and think it's fun to feed them. Now we are at a stage where they assume every human being carrying food in it's hand is going to feed them.
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Betty Boop;1406914 wrote: Migration has got nothing to do with it Oscar.

Feeding the wildlife is the problem.

'People' think 'aaawww look, let's feed them', and they do, some people that live here do it, some holiday makers throw their chips at them then marvel as they swarm in, then a few mins later you will witness the holidaymakers running away screaming in fear as they get mobbed.

Indeed, it is man's fault, but not because we're trying to change migration or their right to be here but because some idiots think they are cute and think it's fun to feed them. Now we are at a stage where they assume every human being carrying food in it's hand is going to feed them.


I agree with you.

What I'm trying to say Is that some towns and cities have to accept they are on a migration path where the Gulls are looking to re-energise. If a town Is then man needs to adapt not expect the Gulls to take a different path. That would take thousands of years of evolution and even then would never happen.

If man took responsibility and started fining heavily anyone caught feeding the Gulls by hand or dropping food In the street, It may make a difference.

It's a little like If you built a town full of take-aways In the middle of the Serengeti-Mara, then once a year, you're likely to be trampled to death by Wildebeast.
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Interesting that this was In the Mail today

Wolves and mountain lions 'poised to invade densely populated cities in the United States' | Mail Online
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I'll give it ten years and we'll be seeing urbanised semi-tame otters in gardens.
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I've lived in my present house for 8 years or more. Its a small rural village surrounded by farmland and oddly, we have never seen or heard a fox except for one single visitor to my neighbours garden. An elderly fox who comes in the evening to be hand fed. He never appears anywhere else and doesn't bring any others. We don't ever hear the usual noises we heard back in our urban house, where foxes were a regular sight in our front garden. Maybe no chicken and chips out here in the country. They maybe busying themselves with the huge stock of rabbits and pheasants bred over the fields (fezzys, not rabbits)

I make no apologies for encouraging the birds into my garden. The more the merrier and I hope the word gets around that when the weather is bad, there's always a quick snack. We have a large mix of bird visitors from a huge amount of sparrows to jays, tits, finches to a woodpecker and an owl (little owl) occasionally flies by. Thankfully no thieving Gulls.

I've spotted the odd stoat or weasel crossing the road and we've had an escaped peacock in our garden
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Snowfire;1406946 wrote: I've lived in my present house for 8 years or more. Its a small rural village surrounded by farmland and oddly, we have never seen or heard a fox except for one single visitor to my neighbours garden. An elderly fox who comes in the evening to be hand fed. He never appears anywhere else and doesn't bring any others. We don't ever hear the usual noises we heard back in our urban house, where foxes were a regular sight in our front garden. Maybe no chicken and chips out here in the country. They maybe busying themselves with the huge stock of rabbits and pheasants bred over the fields (fezzys, not rabbits)

I make no apologies for encouraging the birds into my garden. The more the merrier and I hope the word gets around that when the weather is bad, there's always a quick snack. We have a large mix of bird visitors from a huge amount of sparrows to jays, tits, finches to a woodpecker and an owl (little owl) occasionally flies by. Thankfully no thieving Gulls.

I've spotted the odd stoat or weasel crossing the road and we've had an escaped peacock in our garden
You have In a roundabout way explained the difference of what animals should be fed and what animals should not be fed.

It boils down to the fact that man Is quite happy to feed tits and sparrows for example but not Gulls... why ? Because one species Is a nuisence to man and the others arn't.

Who decides one species Is a nuisence ? Man does. And does so If the species Is something of a danger to them or It's not quite as cute and fluffy as he'd like.

The world Is becoming more densely populated...It stands to reason that you can not just keep building without Interfering with wildlife.

As for your Fox... as with any species, there are rogue loners. It's quite common when an Alpha Dog has become too old and the Subordinate dog has taken control. The Alpha goes to the bottom of the pecking order so they often wander off and spend their last days alone. They are too old to take a mate to form a new territory and too old to fight for control.
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One of my visitors.... Runty

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