Islam is the enemy

Pahu · Post by **Pahu** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:39 am

ISLAM IS THE ENEMY

A Moment For Truth

Dave Hunt

America awakened September 11 to appalling scenes on TV of passenger planes deliberately crashing into the towers of the World Trade Center and into the Pentagon. Stunned disbelief gave way to the question, who could so carefully plan and efficiently execute such incredibly inhumane destruction and slaughter?

What cause could so powerfully motivate educated and trained individuals to sacrifice their own lives and the lives of so many total strangers in this manner? In the minds of civilized people these men were unbelievable fanatics. But were they? Could one call the spiritual leader of an entire major country a "fanatic," a man universally recognized as properly representing his religion? Who would know his religion better than the spiritual leader himself? Such was Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini when he declared, "The purest joy in Islam is to kill and be killed for Allah."

Is that fanaticism? And could you call the founder of a major world religion a fanatic? Muhammad, who with his followers slaughtered thousands in establishing and spreading Islam, said of Muslims, "Who relinquishes his faith, kill him...I have been ordered by Allah to fight with people till they testify there is no god but Allah and Mohammed is his messenger."

Was Muhammad a fanatic? Are they fanatics who obey him today in exacting the death penalty upon Muslims (as in Afghanistan, the Arab Emirates, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Sudan) who for the sake of conscience convert to another religion? Do we need a new definition of "fanatic"?

There is a certain hypocrisy in the new outrage with which America and the world now view terrorism. History's bloodiest, most vicious and successful terrorist, Yasser Arafat, has been given the Nobel Peace Prize and embraced as a world statesman. He is proof to would-be imitators that terrorism pays big. The United Nations, European Union, and countless world political and religious leaders have sided with him in his terrorism against Israel.

Arafat and his PLO held the record for the largest hijacking (four aircraft in a single operation)—which has just been equaled, the greatest number of hostages held at one time (300), the greatest number of people shot at an airport, the largest ransom collected ($5 million paid by Lufthansa), the greatest variety of targets (40 civilian passenger aircraft, five passenger ships, 30 embassies or diplomatic ministries plus innumerable fuel depots and factories), etc.

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Pahu · Post by **Pahu** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:40 am

ISLAM IS THE ENEMY

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Instead of being tried by an international tribunal as were the Nazi and Serbian leadership, Arafat's bloody exploits gained for him acceptance as a leader for peace!

In his brief speech to the nation the morning of the 12th, President Bush declared that the attacks on New York and Washington, D.C. were "acts of war." Indeed, they were—jihad ("holy war"). He said that "freedom and democracy are under attack [but] we will not allow this enemy to win the war by...restricting our freedoms." Is it a mere coincidence that the freedom of speech, religion, the press, and of vote and conscience which we hold so dear in America are suppressed in every Muslim country? Who dares to make the obvious connection between this declaration of war against America, and the declaration of war against the entire world by Muhammad in the seventh century; a part of Islam ever since? Since its inception, jihad has been waged by Islamic warriors to spread that religion of violence and hatred. Islam does not change. Rioting Muslim mobs invariably chant in their "fanaticism," "Allah is great! Allah is great!"

In the wake of this terrible act of "holy war," our President and Congressional leaders referred to God numerous times and invoked His blessing in tracking down the perpetrators of this infamous deed. The God of the Bible to whom they referred is not Allah, the god of Islam, whom the attacking terrorists served so faithfully!

We may be certain that the hijackers were not Israelis or evangelical Christians. Never! The simple but horrible fact is that only the religion of Islam could supply the motivation for what they did. Why are Muslims responsible for most terrorism in the world today? There is a definitive and foundational reason.

It would be extremely naive to imagine that terrorists who are willing to blow themselves up in Israel or to crash a plane at the loss of their own and many other lives do so for some commendable humanitarian cause. The courage comes solely from a unique doctrine of Islam.

Abu-Bakr, the first Caliph to succeed Muhammad (and one of the few to whom Muhammad promised Paradise without martyrdom), declared that even if he had one foot in Paradise he could not trust Allah to let him in. The only sure way in Islam of achieving Paradise is to sacrifice one's life in jihad. Yes, suicide is forbidden as self-murder. But to sacrifice one's life in killing infidels carries the highest reward.

And what reward does Paradise bring to the jihad martyr? He is promised a palace of pearls in which are 70 mansions; inside each mansion are 70 houses and in each house a bed on which are 70 sheets and on each sheet a beautiful virgin. He is assured that he will have the appetite and strength of 100 men for food and sex. This is the fantastic dream that is fed to Muslim boys from earliest childhood. This motivation alone gives the reckless courage and determination to train and execute terrorist deeds in which they sacrifice their lives in bringing death and destruction to "the enemies of Allah."

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Pahu · Post by **Pahu** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:40 am

ISLAM IS THE ENEMY

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America has been called "the Great Satan" by Muslim leaders around the world. Thus the strike at America was a strike for Allah against his chief enemy. Palestinians danced in the streets to celebrate the destruction in America, shouting victory to Allah. The day before the attack CNN showed routine footage of third grade children in a West Bank school chanting death to Israel. Only indoctrination into Islam makes possible such incredible scenes and the terrorism they celebrate.

Though people of good will naturally recoil from attaching blame to a major world religion itself, we can no longer afford such sentimentality. No longer dare we allow Islam to escape its undeniable responsibility. Yet former President Bush called Islam a peace-loving religion. The devastating acts of war by Islamic terrorists against the United States were greeted by naive statements from well-intentioned government leaders to the effect that we must distinguish between terrorism perpetrated by extremist groups and Islam itself which is peaceful. Yet there are more than 100 verses in the Qur'an advocating the use of violence to spread Islam.

In the Qur'an, Allah commands Muslims, "Take not the Jews and Christians as friends...Slay the idolaters [non-Muslims] wherever ye find them.... Fight against such...as believe not in Allah..." (Surah 5:51; 9:5,29,41, etc..). Though most Muslims would shrink from obeying such commands, this is official Islam and it cannot change without admitting that Muhammad was a false prophet and murderer.

Several years ago Steven Emerson produced for PBS an excellent video titled Jihad In America. Its cameras went directly inside cell groups associated with mosques here in America where eager young Muslims were being recruited for jihad against the United States. Muslim leaders are shown giving speeches about bringing America to its knees through terrorism and making cold-blooded statements such as the following from Fayiz Azzam in Brooklyn in1989: "Blood must flow, there must be widows, orphans. Hands and limbs must be severed and limbs and blood must be spread everywhere in order that Allah's religion stand on its feet!" Yes, Allah's religion is the motivation!

In Kansas, in 1988, another leader recruiting Islamic holy warriors against the United States exults, "O, brothers! After Afghanistan [where Muslim freedom fighters, aided by the CIA, drove out the Soviets and installed the brutal Taliban regime] nothing in the world is impossible for us any more! There are no superpowers or minipowers. What matters is will power that springs from our religious belief!" Yes, religious belief, the particular belief of Islam, is the only motivation capable of inspiring such "fanaticism."

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Pahu · Post by **Pahu** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:41 am

ISLAM IS THE ENEMY

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At the beginning of the video, Emerson, who had tracked international terrorism for the prior ten years, reported on what he called "networks of Islamic extremists" inside the US. He accurately warned that "for these militants jihad is a holy war, an armed struggle to defeat nonbelievers, or infidels, and their ultimate goal is to establish an Islamic [worldwide] empire." Yet he later backpedaled into the incredible statement that "Islam as a religion does not condone violence; the radicals represent only themselves—an extremist and violent fringe..." That is simply not true. It is not because men are Arabs or extremists that they turn to terrorism, but because they are devout Muslims. Yet who will face this obvious fact?

Hatred of Israel and the call to destroy America for supporting her are also underlying themes of the terrorists seen in the documentary. Another Muslim leader in the US declares that Washington's Capitol Hill is "Zionist-occupied territory," that the Jews control Congress, and that the United States deserves what it gets so long as it continues to support Israel.

Referring repeatedly to "Islamic holy warriors," the video documented as clearly as could be done that Islam is the driving force behind terrorism. Astonishingly, however, the narrator and counter-terrorism experts being interviewed repeatedly declared that Islam was not to be blamed but only the "fanaticism" of certain individuals. For example, Paul Bremer, former Ambassador-at-Large for counter-terrorism for the State Department, said it is "important to make a distinction...the vast majority of Muslims and Arabs are peace loving." It is true that the vast majority of Muslims are peace loving and would protest that they support terrorism. Our sympathy is with them. However, should they not ask themselves why they follow a religion founded upon violence, which from its very inception has been spread with the sword?

Under Muhammad's leadership in the seventh century, thousands of Arabs (and many Jews and Christians) in the Arabian Peninsula were killed by Islam's fierce "holy warriors" to force that religion upon the Arab world. Upon Muhammad's death, most Arabians abandoned Islam, imagining that they were free at last. Swiftly, tens of thousands of Arabs were slaughtered in the Wars of Apostasy, which forced Arabia back under Allah. From that base Islam was spread everywhere with the sword.

On radio and TV, during that black Tuesday in September, which we can never forget, we were repeatedly told by well-intentioned government officials that we must be careful not to blame Islam for what a few fanatics had done. In fact, terrorists act in direct obedience to Muhammad, the Qur'an, Allah and Islam. While nominal Muslims reject the idea, all Islamic scholars agree that it is the religious duty of every Muslim to use violence whenever possible to spread Islam until it has taken over the world.

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Pahu · Post by **Pahu** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:42 am

ISLAM IS THE ENEMY

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We need to face some simple questions: Is not the attempt to force them into Islam the cause of the cruel enslavement, torture and slaughter of millions in southern Sudan? Is not Islam the driving force behind the murderous and destructive riots against Christians in Nigeria, Indonesia, Pakistan and elsewhere? Is it not the enforcement of Islamic law that makes the Taliban deny all civil rights to those under its control in Afghanistan? And what is it but Islam that unites the otherwise divided Arab world in an implacable and unreasoning hatred against Israel?

No Arab map in the world admits Israel's existence. It is only Islam's claim that Ishmael, not Isaac, was the son of promise and that the Holy Land belongs to them, which unites Arabs in the "fanatical" determination to destroy the Jews.

There is a natural reluctance to accept any statement which seems to be a prejudiced attack upon a world religion. It is the fear of such prejudice which prevents the world from facing the truth. But is it prejudice to state the plain facts? No, it is not—but it is difficult to face the truth that Islam itself is a religion of violence and that those who practice it are not extremists and fanatics in the ordinary sense of those words, but sincere followers of Muhammad.

The world has sided with Islam in its false claim to the land of Israel, which is now inaccurately called Palestine. This promised land, given to Israel by the God of the Bible, has been occupied by Jews continuously for the last 3,000 years, and they are the only people to have done so. In recognition of that undeniable historic fact, all of "Palestine" was to be given to the Jews for a national homeland by a 1917 ruling of the League of Nations. But steadily the Jews were betrayed by Britain's administration of this mandate (and the demise of the British Empire can be dated from that betrayal); the land was parceled out to Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, etc. Israel is now accused of "occupying" land, which actually has been theirs for 3,000 years. The come-lately "Palestinians" are sustained by the world in the lie that they are the original owners of this land. As a result, terrorism is perpetrated not only against Israel but now in this latest act against the United States to apply pressure to force Israel out of its rightful land and to spread Islam around the world.

We have arrived at a defining moment when truth could triumph if the world would recognize that terrorists are not "fanatics" but devout fundamentalist Muslims who are earnestly following their religion. This recognition could bring fresh sympathy for Muslims of all nationalities who are tragically trapped in that system.

The expose of the truth could embarrass Muslim nations into opening the Islamic Curtain and allowing freedom to enter their borders. It could be a new day of open evangelism for the world where not force but love and reason permit each person to determine the faith he would embrace from his heart.

Let us pray to that end.

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:47 am

You're not one for discussion much are you. There comes a time when, if you like the sound of your voice so much, no one else listens.

Try involving yourself in dialogue instead of this fly-by- post-bombing. Free your mind and your ass will follow, I think Confucius say

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:43 am

I'll bet Spot takes this one down like he did the last one.

The enemy is ignorance, Pahu. And you got it bad.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:51 pm

I think that all organized religion should be done away with.

When you get groups of 'people of faith', you get folks who have decided that they know what is best for everyone else and come hell or high water, you'd best conform.

I think these folks do a real disservice to their god.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:07 pm

flopstock;1404269 wrote: I think that all organized religion should be done away with.

When you get groups of 'people of faith', you get folks who have decided that they know what is best for everyone else and come hell or high water, you'd best conform.

I think these folks do a real disservice to their god.

:yh_worshp

Pahu · Post by **Pahu** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:36 pm

Ahso!;1404263 wrote: I'll bet Spot takes this one down like he did the last one.

The enemy is ignorance, Pahu. And you got it bad.

Do you deny that facts presented in the Islam post?

Pahu · Post by **Pahu** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:41 pm

flopstock;1404269 wrote: I think that all organized religion should be done away with.

When you get groups of 'people of faith', you get folks who have decided that they know what is best for everyone else and come hell or high water, you'd best conform.

I think these folks do a real disservice to their god.

Do you prefer disorganized religion? Those who agree with God do know what it best for others, but they do not force them to conform. They persuade.

On the other hand, the ungodly always force others to conform to their notions.

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:09 pm

The same tired and laboured arguments. My God is the only God. My way is the only way. Forgetting of course that THEIR God is YOUR God.

For every Islamic terrorist there are a million good, peaceful Muslims. For every Westboro Baptist there are a million decent, tolerant Christians. Islam isn't the enemy, ignorance and bigotry are and not being able, or willing, to see further than the end of your nose

Arrogance personified

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:35 pm

Pahu;1404276 wrote: Do you prefer disorganized religion? Those who agree with God do know what it best for others, but they do not force them to conform. They persuade.

On the other hand, the ungodly always force others to conform to their notions.

Folks that try to foist their religious beliefs upon others always feel they are being persuasive. And part of persuading us that your way is the right way, is to persuade us that any other way is not just incorrect, but evil.

So that places you into the ungodly category. to my view.

May your god forgive you and grant you leniency for your behavior.:-6

Pahu · Post by **Pahu** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:06 pm

Snowfire;1404278 wrote: The same tired and laboured arguments. My God is the only God. My way is the only way. Forgetting of course that THEIR God is YOUR God.

In what way is their god my God?

The fact that Arabs are using the word Allah in place of Elohim and Yaweh is in no way proof that they are one and the same. I have been researching the words, and I have found that while they are similar they do not appear the same. For instance, Allah is feminine and Elohim is masculine. Allah implies binding ones self by an oath or “faithfulness and while this does seem to be part of the word Elohim. Elohim also implies strength and authority. Not to mention the fact that Elohim is a tri-plural noun. Hmm. There are also many scholars who are saying that Allah was derived from one of the many gods, the moon god, of the old Arab religion This moon god was the god of the family of Muhammed. This makes sense since Muhammed was a man of conquest—of course he would make his family’s god, THE god.

“The god of Islam is not the God of Christianity. The doctrines of Scripture are not the doctrines of the Koran. Heaven for Christians is not the same place as the paradise sought by Muslims. For anyone to say that the two faiths worship the same God is incredibly uninformed. As someone so eloquently has said, ‘The god of Islam requires you to give your son to die for him. The God of the Bible gave His Son; to die for you.’

From The Name by Franklin Graham (Thomas Nelson Publishers)

If it is true that Allah is simply the Arabic name for Almighty God, why does he contradict the God of the Holy Bible?

Did Allah so love the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life (John 3:16)?

Would you agree that this statement is true? “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with Allah, and the Word was Allah (John 1:1).

How about this one: “For in six days Allah made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore Allah blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy (Exodus 20:11). Do Muslims keep the Sabbath day Holy, and if not, why not?

Allah is a false god, Mohammed is his false prophet, and Islam is a false religion. Jesus Christ is the only name under heaven given to mankind through Whom we can receive the free gift of eternal life (Acts 4:12).

If you would enter eternal life, you must reject the false religion of Islam, repent of your sins, submit to Jesus Christ as Lord and obey His Ten Commandment Law.

For every Islamic terrorist there are a million good, peaceful Muslims. For every Westboro Baptist there are a million decent, tolerant Christians. Islam isn't the enemy, ignorance and bigotry are and not being able, or willing, to see further than the end of your nose

Arrogance personified

You are speaking from ignorance. According to the FBI, the definition of terrorism is:

"Terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives."

The religion of Islam fulfills each and every criteria of the above-mentioned definition of terrorism. The following irrefutable facts and deductive logic will amply demonstrate this statement. Ever since Islam was founded it has left behind a legacy of violent atrocities and horrible crimes. The “holy book of the Muslims, the Koran, contains specific instructions on how to loot, pillage, plunder, rape, torture and murder in order to further the interests of Islam. It can clearly be called a specific instruction manual of terrorism.

The “Holy Koran is full of very unholy and terrorist ambitions, it is obviously not from God, as the Muslims would have us believe.

Any sane individual can see that it is a journal and collection of a terrorist’s criminal activities and ideas. This terrorist’s name is Mohammed (popularly known as the prophet of Islam).

During his lifetime, Mohammed organized at least 86 expeditions against people who either refused to follow his teachings or simply came in the way of his power-crazed ambitions.

He led the life of a serial killer, terrorist and rapist, who perpetrated genocide throughout Arabia. Along with the pagan Arabs, many Jews and Christians were victims of this mindless terrorist.

Mohammed was a man who destroyed peace wherever he went, and in its place brought terror, carnage and death. And he did all this in the name of God!

Mohammed has clearly stated in the Koran that God has instructed him and all pious Muslims to loot, pillage, plunder, rape, torture and murder innocent human beings, in order to further the interests of Islam.

I have stated below just a few of the verses from the Koran, which support this fact. As the Koran is supposed to be timeless and universal, the verses in it hold true even today and are used everyday by pious Muslims to justify their brutal and terrorist activities.

1. (Koran 8:12) "Remember Thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the believers, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them.

In the above verse the great prophet of Islam, Mohammed, is giving step by step instructions on how to torture and kill the unbelievers if they don't follow Islam. He is clearly instructing Muslims to commit cold-blooded murder in the name of religion.

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Pahu · Post by **Pahu** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:07 pm

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2. (Koran 2:216) "Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that you hate a thing which is good for you and it may happen that you love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, you knew not."

The above verse was stated by Mohammed after his first terrorist attack. He and his followers mercilessly massacred four innocent and unarmed merchants at Nakhla in 623 AD. The massacre came in January, the sacred month of Rejeb. Arabs regard this month as a sacred month, when warfare and violence is forbidden. Since this barbaric criminal act was led and sanctioned by the "great" prophet Mohammed, we can conclude that Islam's sacred activities include loot and cold-blooded murder of innocent individuals. The very beginnings of Islam are stained with the blood of innocents.

By stating the above verse, Mohammed completely absolved himself from all blame for having murdered innocents. The most insidious and devilish implication of this verse is that God is completely justifying Mohammed’s murder of the innocent Meccans.

The import of this verse is that killing and violence are JUSTIFIED for Muslims, because they are doing it by divine ordinance! It is a religious duty of every Muslim to murder anyone who comes in the way of Islam. Since it is also the duty of every Muslim to ensure that the entire world is converted to Islam by force if necessary, one must directly conclude that it is the religious duty of Muslims to kill all those who are non-Muslim.

This conclusion is derived directly from the supreme edict of Allah, who admonishes that even the Muslim who feels it is wrong to kill, must murder in the name of Allah, otherwise he is not a true Muslim. Over and above this, Mohammed is hypocritically implying that warfare is hateful to him, but he participated in it because God ordained it.

3. (Koran 69:30-37) "It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. You desire the lure of this world and Allah desires for you the hereafter and Allah is Mighty, Wise¦ Now enjoy what you have won as lawful and good and keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is forgiving, merciful."

This verse is in reference to the prisoners that Mohammed held for ransom after the battle of Badr. This battle occurred on March 17, 623 AD. This is the month of Ramadan—another sacred month for the Muslims! In this battle, Mohammed and his followers killed at least 70 innocent merchants from the Quraysh tribe of Mecca and slaughtered several hundred soldiers who came forward to defend them.

Here God the "Merciful" is saying that all the non-believers deserve to be killed! In addition, god is conveniently commenting that whatever loot Mohammed has plundered is "lawful and good" because it was done in service to god. So murder, rape, plunder and destruction are all perfectly legal with the Muslim god as long as they are done in the name of Islam! Mohammed is also insidiously making himself seem very kind for having spared the lives of the prisoners, when in fact he only let them live so he could ransom their lives for more money. In today’s world this is called "taking hostages" and defines "Terrorism" of the worst kind.

4. (Koran 69:30-37) "(It will be said) Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. And then insert him in a chain whereof the length is seventy cubits. Lo! he used not to believe in God the tremendous, and urged not on the feeding of the wretched. Therefore hath he no lover hear this day nor any food save filth which none but sinners eat."

The above verses from the Koran prove that Muslims are specifically instructed not to tolerate unbelievers. It directly states that people who do not believe in Mohammed and the Islamic God are to be tortured and murdered.

Not only does this verse clearly implicate that unbelievers must be tortured and killed, it goes on further to state prescribed methods for committing torture.

The horrific acts mentioned above are in practice even today in Islamic countries. In fact, in India, Muslims tortured the Sikh Gurus and their families exactly as prescribed by the Koran.

For example, the Sikh guru Tegh Bahadur was imprisoned in a cage like a wild animal, when he refused to forsake his religion for Islam.

Three of his disciples were murdered in front of his eyes. One of them was Bhai Mati Das. He was sawed alive into little pieces.

The other was wrapped up in cotton and burnt alive.

Bhai Dyala, the third one, was boiled alive in a cauldron.

Guru Tegh Bahadur himself was brutally tortured and killed in a similar fashion.

One wonders at the mercy of "The all beneficent Allah" who enjoys watching the roasted burnt flesh of hapless innocents falling off their bones.

5. (Koran 5: 33-34) "The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom; Save those who repent before ye overpower them. For know that Allah is forgiving, merciful."

6. (Koran 22: 19-22) "These twain (the believers and the disbelievers) are two opponents who contend concerning their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them, boiling fluid will be poured down their heads. Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning."

7. (Koran 76: 4) "Lo! We have prepared for disbelievers chains, yokes and a blazing fire."

The above verses clearly state extreme terrorist activities, as they contain nothing but detailed recipes of horrific torture. Cutting off the hands and feet of individuals and then making them walk and jump, pouring boiling waters over their victims, making them drink it, burning them alive, inserting hot iron rods into their bodies, dismemberment and disembowelment, genital mutilation etc. are common Islamic practices.

I have mentioned only a few of the verses from the Koran to show that Islam is nothing but an excuse to legalize terrorism, genocide, massacre and other criminal activities. Many other verses that demonstrate these specific qualities are to be found throughout the Koran. As Muslims worldwide regard the Koran to be the ultimate holy book, it is followed to the word. Their daily lives are guided specifically by such passages from the Koran. Moreover, the terrorist, lecherous and criminal activities described in the Koran are considered to be the sacred words of God. Is it any wonder that mindless Muslims all over the world justify their criminal activities of destruction, loot, torture, rape and murder by pointing to the Koran? They actually consider their acts to be holy and believe that for committing such holy acts they will go to paradise—a paradise where they will have plenty of wine, women and young boys for their sexual pleasure.

Pahu · Post by **Pahu** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:13 pm

flopstock;1404288 wrote: Folks that try to foist their religious beliefs upon others always feel they are being persuasive. And part of persuading us that your way is the right way, is to persuade us that any other way is not just incorrect, but evil.

I agree. Do you disagree that there is a right way opposed to a wrong way? Would you agree the God's way is the right way and every way that is opposed to His way is the wrong way?

So that places you into the ungodly category. to my view.

So in your view, living God's way is ungodly?

May your god forgive you and grant you leniency for your behavior.:-6

Amen!

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:51 pm

Sorry pal, I'll forgive someone spewing into the thread once, for the sake of conversation. But life is just too short to wade through that much crap this often.

And just like that you've lost the opportunity to persuade.:wah:

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:06 pm

Islam is not the enemy, extremists and hate-mongers are the enemy.

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:42 pm

The enemy is ignorance, Pahu. And you got it bad.

Kudos. Ignorance is the greatest enemy mankind has ever had.

I think that all organized religion should be done away with.

Not a bad idea.

Pahu. Every society or group of peoples have radical elements in it, Christians also. Remember when European crusaders were murdering Muslims? Slaughtering them on sight at times?

I suggest you stop taking sides.

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:40 pm

I don't normally share what this guy has to say with a lot of people, I think he's half nuts but here he gives a little advise and makes a very good point.

LiveLeak.com - Your moral guide

We've only ourselves to blame.

Post by **LarsMac** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:48 pm

Scrat;1404314 wrote: I don't normally share what this guy has to say with a lot of people, I think he's half nuts but here he gives a little advise and makes a very good point.

LiveLeak.com - Your moral guide

We've only ourselves to blame.

That guy is almost as boring as the OP

Pahu · Post by **Pahu** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:53 pm

Clodhopper;1404306 wrote: Islam is not the enemy, extremists and hate-mongers are the enemy.

Apparently Muslim extremists and hate-mongers get their marching orders from the Koran, and evidently nearly every Muslim is an extreme hate-monger. When was the last time you saw people of other religions killing in the name of their god? Islam's goal is the eradication of everyone who is not a Muslim, starting with Israel and America.

Question:

Can Muslim citizens be loyal to a non-Muslim government?

Summary Answer:

Many Muslims are loyal to the non-Muslim countries in which they live, of course, but it is in spite of Islamic teaching. Unlike other faiths, Islam is not just a religion but a political system as well. The state is intended to be inseparable from religious rule. Islamic law, or Sharia, is complete and not designed to coexist with or be subordinate to other legal systems.

Muslims are not meant to be ruled by non-Muslims. The Qur'an is very clear that they are to resist unbelievers by any means until Islam establishes political supremacy. This doesn't mean that everyone must be forced to become Muslim, but rather that everyone must submit to Muslim rule.

The Qur'an:

Qur'an (5:3) - "This day have I perfected your religion for you." This verse is often interpreted to mean that any government outside of Sharia is unnecessary at best, and corruptive at worst.

Qur'an (18:26) - "[Allah] maketh none to share in his government." This was probably intended as a slam against polytheists and the Christian belief in the Trinity, but it has also been used as the basis for criticizing earthly governments.

Qur'an (19:64) - "And we do not descend but by the command of your Lord; to Him belongs whatever is before us and whatever is behind us and whatever is between these, and your Lord is not forgetful."

Qur'an (4:141) - "...And never will Allah grant to the unbelievers a way (to triumphs) over the believers."

Qur'an (63:8) - "...might belongeth to Allah and to His messenger and to the believers; but the hypocrites know not." The "hypocrites" are defined as Muslims in name only, those who do not submit to the theocracy of Allah.

Qur'an (5:49) - "So judge between them by that which Allah hath revealed, and follow not their desires, but beware of them lest they seduce thee from some part of that which Allah hath revealed unto thee" Allah's Qur'an takes priority over the desires of the people. A democratic nation is by nature one that is not governed by Islamic law, meaning that a Muslim citizen would have divided loyalty. It's clear from this verse which side he must choose.

Qur'an (3:28) - "Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah." The word 'friend' is Awliyaa which is inclusive of friends, protectors and helpers - the components of civil society. See also verse 5:51

Qur'an (4:123) - "Not your desires, nor those of the People of the Book (can prevail): whoever works evil, will be requited accordingly. Nor will he find, besides Allah, any protector or helper."

Qur'an (28:17) - "O my Lord! For that Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace on me, never shall I be a help to those who sin!" It is difficult to reconcile this verse with the civic duty of a public office holder in a pluralistic society.

Qur'an (4:59) - "O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you..." Oddly enough, this verse is sometimes used in an attempt to make the case that Muslims should respect a non-Muslim civil government. But a careful reading makes it clear that the rulers Muslims are to obey are from among their own body of believers. This verse commands strict obedience to the leader (even if he steals and flogs them, according to a hadith reported by Sahih Muslim). How can this refer to a non-Muslim leader when other parts of the Qur'an call for violent Jihad against persecution from non-believers?

See also 9:29, which establishes the ideal relationship between Muslims and non-Muslims.

From the Hadith:

Muslim (19:4294) - "When you meet your enemies who are polytheists [Christians], invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them ... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them"

[continue]

Pahu · Post by **Pahu** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:54 pm

[continued]

Bukhari (53:392) - While we were in the Mosque, the Prophet came out and said, "Let us go to the Jews." We went out till we reached Bait-ul-Midras. He said to them, "If you embrace Islam, you will be safe. You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to expel you from this land. So, if anyone amongst you owns some property, he is permitted to sell it, otherwise you should know that the Earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle."

Additional Notes:

In Islam, loyalty is to Allah and his religion. It cannot be to a kafir country. As the former mufti of the Grand Mosque in Mecca put it in a recent fatwa, "His homeland may be not Islamic, so how can he be loyal to his homeland?"

Scholar Jamal Badawi insists that, "Muslims should not melt in any pot except the Muslim brotherhood pot."

The Calcutta Qur'an Petition says of Muslim communities that "even fresh converts tend to become highly orthodox people and follow the sayings of with a fanatical zeal with the result that whichever country as their sizable number amongst its population can never have peace on its soil." Where Muslim minorities exist, there is unusual social strain manifested by dissention, demand and disloyalty, as well as a cohesive group identity that resists self-reflection and thrives on the perception of victimization by the majority.

Islam teaches that nations are in one of two major categories - Dar-al Harb (house of war) and Dar-al-Islam (Muslim rule). Any nation that is not Muslim is therefore, by definition, at war with Islam (or, at best, in contradiction to the preferred order). Muslims cannot be expected to maintain loyalty to a nation that is at war with their religion.

To be fair, some Muslim scholars contend that there is a middle ground, Dar al-Ahd (land of covenant) or Dar al-Sulh (land of truce), in which non-Muslim countries agree to allow Muslims to practice their faith and evangelize freely in exchange for peace (rights that are formally denied to infidels in Islamic lands). Scholars consider this a transitional period leading to the eventual triumph of Islam via conversion.

The practical definitions of Dar al-Ahd and Dar al-Sulh are somewhat nebulous. Some feel, for example, that denying Muslims their own system of law and Sharia courts constitutes an interference with Islam. Others believe that these states of condition only applied in Muhammad's day. Still others feel that a truce has a ten year-limit, and can be broken anytime by the Muslim party.

Another difficulty with these "middle ground" options is that there is no central authority to declare which non-Muslim nations fall outside the category of Dar al-Harb. Ultimately, true Muslims are citizens of the ummah (Islamic community) and not of any country - and the ummah has no recognized leader.

Even a government of Muslims is not necessarily a Muslim government. Islam requires Islamic law, therefore theocracy is the only pure form of government. In fact, this is what propels the vast majority of violence in the Muslim world, which victimizes Muslims themselves more than any other group.

Although Muslim apologists sometimes claim that Islamic terrorists aren't Muslim by virtue of the fact that they kill other Muslims, the Qur'an advocates striving against both unbelievers and hypocrites, the latter of which are Muslims who profess Islam, but do not support Islamic rule over the way of the infidel as required (see Muslim 20:4696).

Hypocrites include any government which does not uphold strict Sharia, as well as those that make alliances with a non-Muslim country (thereby making covenants and truces quite difficult to legitimize). This is the real reason terrorists kill fellow Muslims, particularly local police, troops and officials who are in the service of such governments.

One of the most influential Islamic scholars of the modern age, Egyptian Sayyid Qutb, says that Muslims have a duty to overthrow any non-Islamic governments by violent means. He explains:

"Islam is not merely a belief, so that it is enough merely to preach it. Islam, which is a way of life, takes practical steps to organize a movement for freeing man. Other societies do not give it [Islam] any opportunity to organize its followers according to its own method, and hence it is the duty of Islam to annihilate all such systems, as they are obstacles in the way of universal freedom. Only in this manner can the way of life be wholly dedicated to Allah, so that neither any human authority nor the question of servitude remains, as is the case in all other systems which are based on man's servitude to man." [Quoted from Andrew Bostom's The Legacy of Jihad]

Elsewhere, Qutb puts it even more bluntly:

The foremost duty of Islam in this world is to depose Jahiliyyah (unbelievers) from the leadership of man, and to take the leadership into its own hands and enforce the particular way of life which is its permanent feature." [Quoted from Robert Spencer's Religion of Peace?]

In a book promoted by the Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA), Islamic scholar Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi writes that "Islam wishes to destroy all States and Governments anywhere on the face of the earth which are opposed to the ideology and programme of Islam regardless of the country or the Nation that rules it. Islam requires the earth – not just a portion – but the whole planet. (source)

Whether or not a Muslim believes in active rebellion against secular or non-Muslim rule (and most may not), it is does not change the fact that Islam is defined by allegiance to Allah and his self-proclaimed messenger, Muhammad. Therefore any extraneous loyalty that is in contradiction to what Allah has already established would be strictly forbidden.

[It should be noted that Muslims as individuals vary widely in their understanding of and allegiance to Islam. While ideological scrutiny may be appropriate for certain sensitive positions in the intelligence, military or law enforcement communities, simply being a Muslim is not sufficient grounds for denying employment to or making assumptions about any such individual.]

Pahu · Post by **Pahu** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:57 pm

Scrat;1404310 wrote: Kudos. Ignorance is the greatest enemy mankind has ever had.

Not a bad idea.

Pahu. Every society or group of peoples have radical elements in it, Christians also. Remember when European crusaders were murdering Muslims? Slaughtering them on sight at times?

I suggest you stop taking sides.

The Crusaders were protecting France from the Muslim Crusaders who were trying to conquer them.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:25 pm

Pahu;1404372 wrote: The Crusaders were protecting France from the Muslim Crusaders who were trying to conquer them.

Perhaps you are thinking of the battle of tours in AD732 when the franks under Charles Martel stopped the moors invading france. The actual crusades as in the call to free the holy land were a few hundred years later.

Many catholics feel they have to obey the dictates of the pope. Do you also think they should be viewed as potential enemies and perhaps barred from holding political office? Logically you should, after all who will be obeyed, the people who elect an official or the pope in rome.

Christians by the way are not polytheists they are monotheist, presumably they pray to the same god as the moslems unless there really is more than one.

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:14 pm

That guy is almost as boring as the OP

He does make some good points and even though I see his schtick a pretty condescending he points things out once in awhile. I also have a somewhat twisted sense of humor. It's good to get information from all sources, even nutters.

Pahu. As was said before, ignorance is the enemy. Think about that, think about taking sides. Think about how easily you're being lead.

koan · Post by **koan** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:28 pm

Islam can't be the enemy. It's not real. By not real, I mean it's not something you can fight. By not something you can fight I mean it doesn't live and breath. You might as well swat at the air and say "take that!!"

What you are afraid of, perhaps, is the power of belief and you'd rather live in a world where there is no longer hope.

Pahu · Post by **Pahu** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:24 am

gmc;1404379 wrote: Perhaps you are thinking of the battle of tours in AD732 when the franks under Charles Martel stopped the moors invading france. The actual crusades as in the call to free the holy land were a few hundred years later.

Misconceptions about the Crusades are all too common. Generally portrayed as a series of unprovoked holy wars against Islam, they are supposed to have been the epitome of self-righteousness and intolerance—a black stain on the history of the Catholic Church in particular and Western, Christian civilization in general. Since September 11, variations of this theme have been used to explain—even justify—Muslim terror against the West. Former president Bill Clinton himself, in a speech at Georgetown University, fingered Muslim anger at the Crusades as the "root cause" of the present conflict.

But the truth is that the Crusades had nothing to do with colonialism or unprovoked aggression—and in A Concise History of the Crusades, renowned medieval historian Thomas F. Madden sets the record straight. The Crusades, he shows, were not the brainchild of an ambitious pope or rapacious knights but a response to more than four centuries of conquests in which Muslims had already captured two thirds of the old Christian world. At some point, Christianity as a faith and a culture had to defend itself or be subsumed by Islam. The Crusades were that defense. Their entire subsequent history is one of Western reaction to Muslim advances—they were no more offensive than was the American invasion of Normandy.

"POLITICALLY INCORRECT" FACTS:

• Islam was born in war and grew the same way. From the time of Mohammed, the means of Muslim expansion was always the sword.

• With enormous energy, the warriors of Islam struck out against the Christians shortly after Mohammed's death. Palestine, Syria, and Egypt—once the most heavily Christian areas in the world—quickly succumbed.

• By the eighth century, Muslim armies had conquered all of Christian North Africa and Spain. In the eleventh century, the Seljuk Turks conquered Asia Minor (modern Turkey), which had been Christian since the time of St. Paul.

• The Byzantine Empire was reduced to little more than Greece. In desperation, the emperor in Constantinople sent word to the Christians of western Europe asking them to aid their brothers and sisters in the East.

• The end of the medieval Crusades did not bring an end to Muslim jihad -- Islamic states like Mamluk Egypt continued to expand in size and power, and the Ottoman Turks built the largest and most awesome state in Muslim history.

• Under Suleiman the Magnificent the Turks came within a hair's breadth of capturing Vienna, which would have left all of Germany at their mercy. At that point Crusades were no longer waged to rescue Jerusalem, but Europe itself.

• It is often asserted that Crusaders were merely lacklands and ne'er-do-wells who took advantage of an opportunity to rob and pillage in a faraway land. Recent scholarship has demolished that contrivance. The truth is that the Crusades were notoriously bad for plunder. A few people got rich, but the vast majority returned with nothing.

• The Ottoman Turks conquered not only their fellow Muslims, thus further unifying Islam, but also continued to press westward, capturing Constantinople and plunging deep into Europe itself. By the 15th century, the Crusades were no longer errands of mercy for a distant people but desperate attempts of one of the last remnants of Christendom to survive. Europeans began to ponder the real possibility that Islam would finally achieve its aim of conquering the entire Christian world.

• In 1529, Suleiman the Magnificent laid siege to Vienna. If not for a run of freak rainstorms that delayed his progress and forced him to leave behind much of his artillery, it is virtually certain that the Turks would have taken the city.

• Whether we admire the Crusaders or not, it is a fact that the world we know today would not exist without their efforts. Without the Crusades, Christianity might well have followed Zoroastrianism, another of Islam's rivals, into extinction.

The New Concise History of the Crusades [Archive] - Professional Soldiers ®

Many catholics feel they have to obey the dictates of the pope. Do you also think they should be viewed as potential enemies and perhaps barred from holding political office? Logically you should, after all who will be obeyed, the people who elect an official or the pope in rome.

As long as they obey the Constitution they are welcome. If they try to replace it with something else, they are an enemy of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Christians by the way are not polytheists they are monotheist, presumably they pray to the same god as the moslems unless there really is more than one.

The fact that Arabs are using the word Allah in place of Elohim and Yaweh is in no way proof that they are one and the same. I have been researching the words, and I have found that while they are similar they do not appear the same. For instance, Allah is feminine and Elohim is masculine. Allah implies binding ones self by an oath or “faithfulness and while this does seem to be part of the word Elohim. Elohim also implies strength and authority. Not to mention the fact that Elohim is a tri-plural noun. Hmm. There are also many scholars who are saying that Allah was derived from one of the many gods, the moon god, of the old Arab religion This moon god was the god of the family of Muhammed. This makes sense since Muhammed was a man of conquest—of course he would make his family’s god, THE god.

“The god of Islam is not the God of Christianity. The doctrines of Scripture are not the doctrines of the Koran. Heaven for Christians is not the same place as the paradise sought by Muslims. For anyone to say that the two faiths worship the same God is incredibly uninformed. As someone so eloquently has said, ‘The god of Islam requires you to give your son to die for him. The God of the Bible gave His Son; to die for you.’

From The Name by Franklin Graham (Thomas Nelson Publishers)

If it is true that Allah is simply the Arabic name for Almighty God, why does he contradict the God of the Holy Bible?

Did Allah so love the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life (John 3:16)?

Would you agree that this statement is true? “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with Allah, and the Word was Allah (John 1:1).

How about this one: “For in six days Allah made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore Allah blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy (Exodus 20:11). Do Muslims keep the Sabbath day Holy, and if not, why not?

Allah is a false god, Mohammed is his false prophet, and Islam is a false religion. Jesus Christ is the only name under heaven given to mankind through Whom we can receive the free gift of eternal life (Acts 4:12).

If you would enter eternal life, you must reject the false religion of Islam, repent of your sins, submit to Jesus Christ as Lord and obey His Ten Commandment Law.

Pahu · Post by **Pahu** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:26 am

Scrat;1404411 wrote: He does make some good points and even though I see his schtick a pretty condescending he points things out once in awhile. I also have a somewhat twisted sense of humor. It's good to get information from all sources, even nutters.

Pahu. As was said before, ignorance is the enemy. Think about that, think about taking sides. Think about how easily you're being lead.

Where do you think I am easily being lead?

Pahu · Post by **Pahu** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:29 am

koan;1404414 wrote: Islam can't be the enemy. It's not real. By not real, I mean it's not something you can fight. By not something you can fight I mean it doesn't live and breath. You might as well swat at the air and say "take that!!"

What you are afraid of, perhaps, is the power of belief and you'd rather live in a world where there is no longer hope.

Islam is very real and dangerous. Wake up! If Islam succeeds in conquering the world, there will no longer be hope.

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:58 pm

Islam is an idea. You can't kill an idea. You blow up mosques, people will build another one and you will be the enemy because you are a person and you killed people. In that case you would be the enemy, not the belief that drove you to kill them.

If you are really concerned, you might stop calling for death and hate and ask yourself why so many people chose Islam as their religion. My brother converted to Islam. He had a choice and he decided Islam was the truth for him. He is not anyone's enemy. If I had to consider the both of you next to each other, you'd be the terrorist, not him.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:50 pm

Pahu;1404370 wrote: Apparently Muslim extremists and hate-mongers get their marching orders from the Koran, and evidently nearly every Muslim is an extreme hate-monger. When was the last time you saw people of other religions killing in the name of their god? Islam's goal is the eradication of everyone who is not a Muslim, starting with Israel and America.

As to the first sentence, it might be apparent to you but it is patent nonsense to the most of us.

As to the highlighted section, a very few years ago in Northern Ireland - Christian versus Christian both claiming the same God and the same Bible as their justification.

There are more than a billion Muslims in the world with well less than a hundredth of one percent whose goal is "the eradication of everyone who is not a Muslim, starting with Israel and America." You see what you want to see and disregard the rest - open your eyes and join the real world.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:41 pm

There are a lot of muslims in Britain, leading quiet lives and bothering no-one, many contributing wonderfully: Nasser Hussain was captain of the England & Wales cricket team and is widely regarded as one of the key figures who turned our fortunes around, just to mention a sporting figure.

We have a council of faiths here - which I cannot for the life of me recall the name of just at present - but at which all the top people of the major faiths meet. The leading Imam is a part of that council, and valued. We have muslim members of the House of Lords. They are a part of us and becoming more so with time. We are the British. We will assimilate them, adding their cultural and biological distinctiveness to our own...:sneaky:

Pahu · Post by **Pahu** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:15 am

koan;1404444 wrote: Islam is an idea. You can't kill an idea. You blow up mosques, people will build another one and you will be the enemy because you are a person and you killed people. In that case you would be the enemy, not the belief that drove you to kill them.

The problem is the Koran teaches hate and murder against non-Muslims:

According to the FBI:

"Terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives."

The religion of Islam fulfills each and every criteria of the above-mentioned definition of terrorism. The following irrefutable facts and deductive logic will amply demonstrate this statement. Ever since Islam was founded it has left behind a legacy of violent atrocities and horrible crimes. The “holy book of the Muslims, the Koran, contains specific instructions on how to loot, pillage, plunder, rape, torture and murder in order to further the interests of Islam. It can clearly be called a specific instruction manual of terrorism.

The “Holy Koran is full of very unholy and terrorist ambitions, it is obviously not from God, as the Muslims would have us believe.

Any sane individual can see that it is a journal and collection of a terrorist’s criminal activities and ideas. This terrorist’s name is Mohammed (popularly known as the prophet of Islam).

During his lifetime, Mohammed organized at least 86 expeditions against people who either refused to follow his teachings or simply came in the way of his power-crazed ambitions.

He led the life of a serial killer, terrorist and rapist, who perpetrated genocide throughout Arabia. Along with the pagan Arabs, many Jews and Christians were victims of this mindless terrorist.

Mohammed was a man who destroyed peace wherever he went, and in its place brought terror, carnage and death. And he did all this in the name of God!

Mohammed has clearly stated in the Koran that God has instructed him and all pious Muslims to loot, pillage, plunder, rape, torture and murder innocent human beings, in order to further the interests of Islam.

I have stated below just a few of the verses from the Koran, which support this fact. As the Koran is supposed to be timeless and universal, the verses in it hold true even today and are used everyday by pious Muslims to justify their brutal and terrorist activities.

1. (Koran 8:12) "Remember Thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the believers, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them.

In the above verse the great prophet of Islam, Mohammed, is giving step by step instructions on how to torture and kill the unbelievers if they don't follow Islam. He is clearly instructing Muslims to commit cold-blooded murder in the name of religion.

2. (Koran 2:216) "Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that you hate a thing which is good for you and it may happen that you love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, you knew not."

The above verse was stated by Mohammed after his first terrorist attack. He and his followers mercilessly massacred four innocent and unarmed merchants at Nakhla in 623 AD. The massacre came in January, the sacred month of Rejeb. Arabs regard this month as a sacred month, when warfare and violence is forbidden. Since this barbaric criminal act was led and sanctioned by the "great" prophet Mohammed, we can conclude that Islam's sacred activities include loot and cold-blooded murder of innocent individuals. The very beginnings of Islam are stained with the blood of innocents.

By stating the above verse, Mohammed completely absolved himself from all blame for having murdered innocents. The most insidious and devilish implication of this verse is that God is completely justifying Mohammed’s murder of the innocent Meccans.

The import of this verse is that killing and violence are JUSTIFIED for Muslims, because they are doing it by divine ordinance! It is a religious duty of every Muslim to murder anyone who comes in the way of Islam. Since it is also the duty of every Muslim to ensure that the entire world is converted to Islam by force if necessary, one must directly conclude that it is the religious duty of Muslims to kill all those who are non-Muslim.

This conclusion is derived directly from the supreme edict of Allah, who admonishes that even the Muslim who feels it is wrong to kill, must murder in the name of Allah, otherwise he is not a true Muslim. Over and above this, Mohammed is hypocritically implying that warfare is hateful to him, but he participated in it because God ordained it.

[continue]

Pahu · Post by **Pahu** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:15 am

[continued]

3. (Koran 69:30-37) "It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. You desire the lure of this world and Allah desires for you the hereafter and Allah is Mighty, Wise¦ Now enjoy what you have won as lawful and good and keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is forgiving, merciful."

This verse is in reference to the prisoners that Mohammed held for ransom after the battle of Badr. This battle occurred on March 17, 623 AD. This is the month of Ramadan—another sacred month for the Muslims! In this battle, Mohammed and his followers killed at least 70 innocent merchants from the Quraysh tribe of Mecca and slaughtered several hundred soldiers who came forward to defend them.

Here God the "Merciful" is saying that all the non-believers deserve to be killed! In addition, god is conveniently commenting that whatever loot Mohammed has plundered is "lawful and good" because it was done in service to god. So murder, rape, plunder and destruction are all perfectly legal with the Muslim god as long as they are done in the name of Islam! Mohammed is also insidiously making himself seem very kind for having spared the lives of the prisoners, when in fact he only let them live so he could ransom their lives for more money. In today’s world this is called "taking hostages" and defines "Terrorism" of the worst kind.

4. (Koran 69:30-37) "(It will be said) Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. And then insert him in a chain whereof the length is seventy cubits. Lo! he used not to believe in God the tremendous, and urged not on the feeding of the wretched. Therefore hath he no lover hear this day nor any food save filth which none but sinners eat."

The above verses from the Koran prove that Muslims are specifically instructed not to tolerate unbelievers. It directly states that people who do not believe in Mohammed and the Islamic God are to be tortured and murdered.

Not only does this verse clearly implicate that unbelievers must be tortured and killed, it goes on further to state prescribed methods for committing torture.

The horrific acts mentioned above are in practice even today in Islamic countries. In fact, in India, Muslims tortured the Sikh Gurus and their families exactly as prescribed by the Koran.

For example, the Sikh guru Tegh Bahadur was imprisoned in a cage like a wild animal, when he refused to forsake his religion for Islam.

Three of his disciples were murdered in front of his eyes. One of them was Bhai Mati Das. He was sawed alive into little pieces.

The other was wrapped up in cotton and burnt alive.

Bhai Dyala, the third one, was boiled alive in a cauldron.

Guru Tegh Bahadur himself was brutally tortured and killed in a similar fashion.

One wonders at the mercy of "The all beneficent Allah" who enjoys watching the roasted burnt flesh of hapless innocents falling off their bones.

5. (Koran 5: 33-34) "The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom; Save those who repent before ye overpower them. For know that Allah is forgiving, merciful."

6. (Koran 22: 19-22) "These twain (the believers and the disbelievers) are two opponents who contend concerning their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them, boiling fluid will be poured down their heads. Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning."

7. (Koran 76: 4) "Lo! We have prepared for disbelievers chains, yokes and a blazing fire."

The above verses clearly state extreme terrorist activities, as they contain nothing but detailed recipes of horrific torture. Cutting off the hands and feet of individuals and then making them walk and jump, pouring boiling waters over their victims, making them drink it, burning them alive, inserting hot iron rods into their bodies, dismemberment and disembowelment, genital mutilation etc. are common Islamic practices.

I have mentioned only a few of the verses from the Koran to show that Islam is nothing but an excuse to legalize terrorism, genocide, massacre and other criminal activities. Many other verses that demonstrate these specific qualities are to be found throughout the Koran. As Muslims worldwide regard the Koran to be the ultimate holy book, it is followed to the word. Their daily lives are guided specifically by such passages from the Koran. Moreover, the terrorist, lecherous and criminal activities described in the Koran are considered to be the sacred words of God. Is it any wonder that mindless Muslims all over the world justify their criminal activities of destruction, loot, torture, rape and murder by pointing to the Koran? They actually consider their acts to be holy and believe that for committing such holy acts they will go to paradise—a paradise where they will have plenty of wine, women and young boys for their sexual pleasure.

Islam-Terrorism, Inc.

If you are really concerned, you might stop calling for death and hate and ask yourself why so many people chose Islam as their religion. My brother converted to Islam. He had a choice and he decided Islam was the truth for him. He is not anyone's enemy. If I had to consider the both of you next to each other, you'd be the terrorist, not him.

Most people don't have a choice. It's either convert or die. I hope your brother will reconsider.

Pahu · Post by **Pahu** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:19 am

Clodhopper;1404678 wrote: There are a lot of muslims in Britain, leading quiet lives and bothering no-one, many contributing wonderfully: Nasser Hussain was captain of the England & Wales cricket team and is widely regarded as one of the key figures who turned our fortunes around, just to mention a sporting figure.

We have a council of faiths here - which I cannot for the life of me recall the name of just at present - but at which all the top people of the major faiths meet. The leading Imam is a part of that council, and valued. We have muslim members of the House of Lords. They are a part of us and becoming more so with time. We are the British. We will assimilate them, adding their cultural and biological distinctiveness to our own...:sneaky:

I hope you are right, but I think the reality is they will assimilate you.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:42 am

It didn't go very well for them the last time someone tried to assimilate us in the name of their religion what makes you think we need to worry about a few muslims? You presumably have been assimilated by the religion you follow are you any different from a muslim? Resistance is futile god is on our side we are the borg/christian/muslim collective. you shall not question only obey. Bollocks to the lot of you.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:23 pm

...qed.

(...won't do it in caps: Quod Erat Demonstrandum)

Pahu · Post by **Pahu** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:12 pm

gmc;1404737 wrote: It didn't go very well for them the last time someone tried to assimilate us in the name of their religion what makes you think we need to worry about a few muslims? You presumably have been assimilated by the religion you follow are you any different from a muslim? Resistance is futile god is on our side we are the borg/christian/muslim collective. you shall not question only obey. Bollocks to the lot of you.

What is the borg/christian/muslim collective?

Yes, I am quite different from a Muslim. A Muslim believes in a false religion (Islam), a false prophet (Mohammed), and a false god (Allah).

Christians believe in a true religion (Christianity), a true prophet (Jesus Christ), and a true God (Yahweh).

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:40 pm

Pahu;1405314 wrote: What is the borg/christian/muslim collective?

Yes, I am quite different from a Muslim. A Muslim believes in a false religion (Islam), a false prophet (Mohammed), and a false god (Allah).

Christians believe in a true religion (Christianity), a true prophet (Jesus Christ), and a true God (Yahweh).

If you are not a star trek fan you will not understand or appreciate the analogy. If you are a star trek fan and don't understand and appreciate the analogy I despair.

Do you both believe in the same god? If there is only one god and you both believe that then does it matter if you worship in different ways or is it necessary that you try and kill each other to establish which is right? Must one assimilate the other?

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:47 pm

Christians believe in a true religion (Christianity), a true prophet (Jesus Christ), and a true God (Yahweh).

Bet this remark has killed more humans than just about anything.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:22 pm

AnneBoleyn;1405395 wrote: Bet this remark has killed more humans than just about anything.

Your qualification, "just about anyghing" makes me wonder.

If i knew what that was, might take that bet.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:36 pm

tude dog;1405399 wrote: Your qualification, "just about anyghing" makes me wonder.

If i knew what that was, might take that bet.

anyghing. That sounds Asian. Does it come with noodles?

You know, I wonder too. I didn't like that qualification, too loose. How can I say that better?

Pahu · Post by **Pahu** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:01 pm

gmc;1405393 wrote:

Do you both believe in the same god? If there is only one god and you both believe that then does it matter if you worship in different ways or is it necessary that you try and kill each other to establish which is right? Must one assimilate the other?

The Muslim god is not the Christian God. The Muslim god demands all non-muslims be killed. The Christian God invites all to repent of our sins and join Him in eternity.

“The god of Islam is not the God of Christianity. The doctrines of Scripture are not the doctrines of the Koran. Heaven for Christians is not the same place as the paradise sought by Muslims. For anyone to say that the two faiths worship the same God is incredibly uninformed. As someone so eloquently has said, ‘The god of Islam requires you to give your son to die for him. The God of the Bible gave His Son; to die for you.’

From The Name by Franklin Graham (Thomas Nelson Publishers)

If it is true that Allah is simply the Arabic name for Almighty God, why does he contradict the God of the Holy Bible?

Did Allah so love the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life (John 3:16)?

Would you agree that this statement is true? “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with Allah, and the Word was Allah (John 1:1).

How about this one: “For in six days Allah made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore Allah blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy (Exodus 20:11). Do Muslims keep the Sabbath day Holy, and if not, why not?

Allah is a false god, Mohammed is his false prophet, and Islam is a false religion. Jesus Christ is the only name under heaven given to mankind through Whom we can receive the free gift of eternal life (Acts 4:12).

If you would enter eternal life, you must reject the false religion of Islam, repent of your sins, submit to Jesus Christ as Lord and obey His Ten Commandment Law.

Pahu · Post by **Pahu** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:02 pm

AnneBoleyn;1405395 wrote: Bet this remark has killed more humans than just about anything.

In what way?

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:08 pm

AnneBoleyn;1405402 wrote: anyghing. That sounds Asian. Does it come with noodles?

Could you be more specific?:wah:

All kinds of Asian food with noodles.

There are all kinds of noodles, and I can say I generally love noodles.

AnneBoleyn;1405402 wrote: You know, I wonder too. I didn't like that qualification, too loose. How can I say that better?

Hmm. Unfortunately I am not a witty person, otherwise I could give you some interesting suggestions.

So bet is off.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:38 am

Pahu;1405434 wrote: The Muslim god is not the Christian God. The Muslim god demands all non-muslims be killed. The Christian God invites all to repent of our sins and join Him in eternity.

“The god of Islam is not the God of Christianity. The doctrines of Scripture are not the doctrines of the Koran. Heaven for Christians is not the same place as the paradise sought by Muslims. For anyone to say that the two faiths worship the same God is incredibly uninformed. As someone so eloquently has said, ‘The god of Islam requires you to give your son to die for him. The God of the Bible gave His Son; to die for you.’

From The Name by Franklin Graham (Thomas Nelson Publishers)

If it is true that Allah is simply the Arabic name for Almighty God, why does he contradict the God of the Holy Bible?

Did Allah so love the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life (John 3:16)?

Would you agree that this statement is true? “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with Allah, and the Word was Allah (John 1:1).

How about this one: “For in six days Allah made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore Allah blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy (Exodus 20:11). Do Muslims keep the Sabbath day Holy, and if not, why not?

Allah is a false god, Mohammed is his false prophet, and Islam is a false religion. Jesus Christ is the only name under heaven given to mankind through Whom we can receive the free gift of eternal life (Acts 4:12).

If you would enter eternal life, you must reject the false religion of Islam, repent of your sins, submit to Jesus Christ as Lord and obey His Ten Commandment Law.

I read this and in my head I kept singing.

My God's better than your God

My Gods better than yours

My Gods better cause I am smarter

My Gods better than yours...

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:31 am

In 1899, In his book 'The River War,' Winston Churchill warned that Islam Is threatening Europe in the same way as the Barbarians once threatened Rome. "Mohammedanism," Churchill wrote - I quote - "Is a militant and proselytizing faith. No stronger retrograde force exists in the World. The civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome." End of quote.

“It may be by pure conversion that Britain will become an Islamic state. We may never need to conquer it from the outside. We will do It through the wombs of our women. Islam is superior and will never be surpassed. The flag of Islam will rise over Downing Street.

Anjem Choudary...Leader of ' Islam for UK'

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:49 am

YZGI;1405491 wrote: I read this and in my head I kept singing.

My God's better than your God

My Gods better than yours

My Gods better cause I am smarter

My Gods better than yours...

If you read the through his posts, you actually come away with the impression that his god is worse than just about anyone else's.

That's gotten me wondering if that isn't the true purpose behind these posts. He is reinforcing everything the mainstream audience has come to hold this type of christian in contempt for. How many folks have come in and said 'damn skippy brother!'? He's gotten the flock to bash the Christians again rather than who he says he is against.

Post by **LarsMac** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:48 pm

flopstock;1405505 wrote: If you read the through his posts, you actually come away with the impression that his god is worse than just about anyone else's.

That's gotten me wondering if that isn't the true purpose behind these posts. He is reinforcing everything the mainstream audience has come to hold this type of christian in contempt for. How many folks have come in and said 'damn skippy brother!'? He's gotten the flock to bash the Christians again rather than who he says he is against.

Hey!!! Good point!!

And he even LOOKS like a Muslim, too!!