George Galloway is courting controversy again, this time on twitter.
" The Julian Assange sex crime allegations,if true, are not rape...."
George Galloway: 'The Julian Assange Sex Crime Allegations, If True, Are Not Rape'
George is being VERY controversial again
George is being VERY controversial again
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
George is being VERY controversial again
He's being an arsehole. There's a certain kind of mentality that does not believe a woman has the right to change her mind about having sex. Having sex with someone that is unconscious is rape no matter what the circumstances. If a wopman asls you to use a condom and you refuse and force the issue that is rape and what kind of idiot has unprotected sex with a one night stand anyway.
George is being VERY controversial again
Well its what George does very well. Being an arshole.
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
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George is being VERY controversial again
gmc;1401570 wrote: He's being an arsehole. . Told you
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
George is being VERY controversial again
I found his wording questionable. There are aspects to the accusations that bring up legitimate questions without getting into generalizations about sexual rights or behaviour. The women were bragging on twitter and facebook about their relationships with him after the alleged crimes took place. Sweden's head prosecutor dropped the case. Assange offered to go in for questioning and was told he was free to leave the country. One of the women deleted a post explaining how to get revenge on an ex-lover. The women pressed charges after finding out he'd been sleeping with the other woman as well. Prior to that discovery, both women were quite happily bragging about their relationship and attending parties and meetings with him.
As to George's opinion about needing explicit permission from a woman on each occasion, I can see why he's upset. We're talking about an animal act that involves primal urges and spontaneity. Most people don't sit and renegotiate sex contractually with full sub-clauses before they engage. There is a little bit of leeway needed for interpreting behaviour. Someone being naked in your bed should be seen as a pretty good physical sign that they want sex.
As to George's opinion about needing explicit permission from a woman on each occasion, I can see why he's upset. We're talking about an animal act that involves primal urges and spontaneity. Most people don't sit and renegotiate sex contractually with full sub-clauses before they engage. There is a little bit of leeway needed for interpreting behaviour. Someone being naked in your bed should be seen as a pretty good physical sign that they want sex.
George is being VERY controversial again
The main point that he is making, that this is almost certainly a cynical set-up, remains valid.
George is being VERY controversial again
George is a superb orator. His use of the English language is exact and precise. He knows precisely what he is saying. He starts the conversation by admitting the controversial nature of his opinions. I dont doubt his conviction that any charges against Assange are trumped up by 2 women with dubious and disrepratable connections. No doubt he's been compromised
His persuasion that it is just "bad sexual etiquette " is bollocks. He then defends his statements by saying that " what constitutes a sexual offence in Sweden would not be considered such a crime in the UK. " Not good enough. It is in Sweden. It shouldn't take a man to suggest strongly that a woman has the right to both, say no or change her mind. There are plenty of women here that have said just that in a few other threads this evening.
While its highly dubious Assange is guilty of the allegations, if he is, its rape in any other language.
I'll stick with my assertion that he is an arsehole
His persuasion that it is just "bad sexual etiquette " is bollocks. He then defends his statements by saying that " what constitutes a sexual offence in Sweden would not be considered such a crime in the UK. " Not good enough. It is in Sweden. It shouldn't take a man to suggest strongly that a woman has the right to both, say no or change her mind. There are plenty of women here that have said just that in a few other threads this evening.
While its highly dubious Assange is guilty of the allegations, if he is, its rape in any other language.
I'll stick with my assertion that he is an arsehole
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
George is being VERY controversial again
I think George Galloway is a rose in a sewer pipe, rarely do people in the media have the balls to speak. God forbid you might actually offend someone. As for these allegations, I think they're pure 100% grade A bullshit.
George is being VERY controversial again
I'm not sure where anyone got the impression either of the girls said "no." As far as I know, and I've read a lot of the reports and documents, as well as the deleted tweets/posts, the word "no" was never uttered. The closest thing to "no" was that one woman was sleeping when sex was initiated. I know some people are heavy sleepers but... I've got this comical vision of Assange wearing nothing but a super secret villain cape and spearing her with one shot.
George is being VERY controversial again
She was sleeping and allegedly woke to find him having sex without using a condom. It's the non use of a condom that is the issue in sweden, we may find it odd but if you have sex with someone an ask them to use a condom and they go ahead without one it becomes rape, i.e non consensual sex. Having sex with someone that is drunk and unconscious is rape although many in society will argue that she was asking for it especially if wearing a short skirt. I've kind of lost sympathy for assange, his actions are detracting from his very real achievements with wikileaks, don't forget people put up bail for him - he owes them an apology for that since they are out of pocket over this.
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George is being VERY controversial again
gmc;1401662 wrote: I've kind of lost sympathy for assange, his actions are detracting from his very real achievements with wikileaks, don't forget people put up bail for him - he owes them an apology for that since they are out of pocket over this.
Putting aside the politics and motives of our government, he's now beginning to annoy me also. Courting a media circus will turn people off and he'll lose support.
Putting aside the politics and motives of our government, he's now beginning to annoy me also. Courting a media circus will turn people off and he'll lose support.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
George is being VERY controversial again
The media is the only weapon he has to fight with, light will keep the roaches away. Were it not for the bright spotlight of it he would have been dead long ago.
George is being VERY controversial again
Do people actually still believe there is such a thing as a "fair" trial? I think he's better off jailed in an embassy than jailed in a jail. He's still not charged but he'd be incarcerated while waiting for questioning in Sweden, in which case he couldn't have made it to an embassy. I think he did the right thing.
Galloway's comments are really only controversial in his dismissive attitude towards the women. His wording wasn't very charming or enlightened but I think his frustration with the charges is from having looked at the facts of the allegations. Woman "A" has something like 5 of the 6 allegations and 4 of those happened a few days before the last. So she is saying she was assaulted and violated and he flagrantly ignored her insistence on condoms to the tune of four assaults, after which she asked him to attend a party with her and slept with him again a few nights later. The other woman only has one charge. I believe he left town before she had a chance to sleep with him again. Both of them were bragging about their relationships with him, which is how they found he'd two-timed them.
There is nothing more hideous to the cause of women than women who lie about rape. I'd like to see the Swedes question him and find out if these women are for real. If not, I'd like to see them charged with libel and abuse of the legal system.
Galloway's comments are really only controversial in his dismissive attitude towards the women. His wording wasn't very charming or enlightened but I think his frustration with the charges is from having looked at the facts of the allegations. Woman "A" has something like 5 of the 6 allegations and 4 of those happened a few days before the last. So she is saying she was assaulted and violated and he flagrantly ignored her insistence on condoms to the tune of four assaults, after which she asked him to attend a party with her and slept with him again a few nights later. The other woman only has one charge. I believe he left town before she had a chance to sleep with him again. Both of them were bragging about their relationships with him, which is how they found he'd two-timed them.
There is nothing more hideous to the cause of women than women who lie about rape. I'd like to see the Swedes question him and find out if these women are for real. If not, I'd like to see them charged with libel and abuse of the legal system.
George is being VERY controversial again
Reading all the statements made by witnesses. Anna came back a day early, knowing Julian would still be in her flat. She invited him to stay in her bed. Every day for the next week she complained about his hygiene to a colleague who offered to find him another place but she said he could keep staying there. She told another colleague that she hadn't had sex with him then... AFTER she was allegedly raped the following convo takes place:
WF: One can, I understand the question but I think that he thinks it's positive and Anna's comments when she actually rings me and says, it wasn't true, what I said before, we've had sex.
MG: Hmmm.
WF: And then she adds that, right on this theme as I say, uh, I was ****ing proud, got the world's coolest guy in my bed and living in my flat.
Anna also, after insisting he continue staying in her flat offers to throw a crayfish party for him. Invites a bunch of friends and there are a few uncomfortable moments where she and a number of her friends make disparaging remarks about men.
The other woman, Sofia, was described by everyone as a groupie/stalker type. In her own testimony she explains how she managed to stay close to Julian by continuously reminding him "I got you the cables." Because she volunteered to help out at the lecture in order to get tickets.
Anna claims to have been amused by Sofia and knowledgeable that Assange planned to bed her but what did she say at the time?:
"But at the crayfish party uh, so she's sitting next to Julian and then she says, and so she brings it up, where did you go off to last night she says. Uh, in other words, and I have no recollection they had any relationship at all. I really believe that Anna, that's a strong woman, like that so that... Uh, but he catches on and he looks at her. Because I'm sitting right next to them. And, I woke up and you were gone from my bed and I felt like you'd dumped me she said."
I think Anna is pretty much just a **** disturber who should have the **** kicked out of her. She gave him one condom to use, the had sex multiple times. He struggled to keep the one condom going and she blames him that it broke.
I think Sofia was truly traumatized. She did everything she could to get a man she was strangely obsessed with into her bed. He fell asleep before they had sex then woke up and had sex in the middle of the night, him not realizing that she wanted him to use a condom (because he'd fallen asleep before getting that far) then putting one on after she told him it was important. The poor girl seems to have a terror of STDs and only went to the police because she wanted him to get tested for disease. She was so upset when they told her Assange had been apprehended for questioning that she left without confirming her statement and the loose form statement she had given had additions and changes made to it. So there are two versions of her statement, neither of them verified... rendering it useless.
She'd be one of those girls that Seinfeld would describe as "having the crazy eyes." But I do think she was traumatized. Just not illegally, since Assange put the latex on when she asked. She said they might have had sex again in the morning but she couldn't remember. So she probably doesn't remember anything else about the potential event.
WF: One can, I understand the question but I think that he thinks it's positive and Anna's comments when she actually rings me and says, it wasn't true, what I said before, we've had sex.
MG: Hmmm.
WF: And then she adds that, right on this theme as I say, uh, I was ****ing proud, got the world's coolest guy in my bed and living in my flat.
Anna also, after insisting he continue staying in her flat offers to throw a crayfish party for him. Invites a bunch of friends and there are a few uncomfortable moments where she and a number of her friends make disparaging remarks about men.
The other woman, Sofia, was described by everyone as a groupie/stalker type. In her own testimony she explains how she managed to stay close to Julian by continuously reminding him "I got you the cables." Because she volunteered to help out at the lecture in order to get tickets.
Anna claims to have been amused by Sofia and knowledgeable that Assange planned to bed her but what did she say at the time?:
"But at the crayfish party uh, so she's sitting next to Julian and then she says, and so she brings it up, where did you go off to last night she says. Uh, in other words, and I have no recollection they had any relationship at all. I really believe that Anna, that's a strong woman, like that so that... Uh, but he catches on and he looks at her. Because I'm sitting right next to them. And, I woke up and you were gone from my bed and I felt like you'd dumped me she said."
I think Anna is pretty much just a **** disturber who should have the **** kicked out of her. She gave him one condom to use, the had sex multiple times. He struggled to keep the one condom going and she blames him that it broke.
I think Sofia was truly traumatized. She did everything she could to get a man she was strangely obsessed with into her bed. He fell asleep before they had sex then woke up and had sex in the middle of the night, him not realizing that she wanted him to use a condom (because he'd fallen asleep before getting that far) then putting one on after she told him it was important. The poor girl seems to have a terror of STDs and only went to the police because she wanted him to get tested for disease. She was so upset when they told her Assange had been apprehended for questioning that she left without confirming her statement and the loose form statement she had given had additions and changes made to it. So there are two versions of her statement, neither of them verified... rendering it useless.
She'd be one of those girls that Seinfeld would describe as "having the crazy eyes." But I do think she was traumatized. Just not illegally, since Assange put the latex on when she asked. She said they might have had sex again in the morning but she couldn't remember. So she probably doesn't remember anything else about the potential event.
George is being VERY controversial again
An interesting tweet from a blogger in the i newspaper this morning, in relation to Georges comments.
" If we extradite Assange while he's asleep, is that really extradition or is it bad manners ? "
George has also been given the sack as a columnist on the Scottish political magazine Holyrood and has been roundly condemned by senior figures in his own party.
George Galloway sacked as political columnist for rape remarks | Politics | guardian.co.uk
I think, had he stuck to Assange's situation and to the view as to whether the allegations had any foundation, rather than muddying the waters with his views on whether it was rape or not, he wouldn't find this gulf developing . Now the headlines are about George and not about Assange
" If we extradite Assange while he's asleep, is that really extradition or is it bad manners ? "
George has also been given the sack as a columnist on the Scottish political magazine Holyrood and has been roundly condemned by senior figures in his own party.
George Galloway sacked as political columnist for rape remarks | Politics | guardian.co.uk
I think, had he stuck to Assange's situation and to the view as to whether the allegations had any foundation, rather than muddying the waters with his views on whether it was rape or not, he wouldn't find this gulf developing . Now the headlines are about George and not about Assange
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
George is being VERY controversial again
I highly doubt he's regretting what he said. I'd be shocked if he apologizes. He was very clear that he believes it's a war on the word "rape" and he felt someone had to say it. If you read the testimonies you can see why he believes it's the wrong word. He said he knew it was controversial.
It doesn't help Assange to switch focus but there is a very disproportionate treatment from Sweden, who have conducted video interviews with suspects charged with more violent assaults in the past, and won't say why they refuse to use other available methods. They did question Assange in Sweden already and he ended the interview by asking for another chance to talk if needed.
MG: OK so we hereby conclude the interrogation.
JA: We can always continue if it's needed? But the main thing is that I and others got to hear a lot of unbelievable lies. And got to hear I was to meet Sonja on Saturday afternoon to discuss the matter. Anna had no accusations and no one had any intention of going to the police and so forth. That's how I expected things to remain until I heard the news in Expressen.
The women never pressed charges, they wanted to force him to take an HIV test. The police interviewers decided to press charges and the prosecutor told them to drop it because they didn't have a case.
It doesn't help Assange to switch focus but there is a very disproportionate treatment from Sweden, who have conducted video interviews with suspects charged with more violent assaults in the past, and won't say why they refuse to use other available methods. They did question Assange in Sweden already and he ended the interview by asking for another chance to talk if needed.
MG: OK so we hereby conclude the interrogation.
JA: We can always continue if it's needed? But the main thing is that I and others got to hear a lot of unbelievable lies. And got to hear I was to meet Sonja on Saturday afternoon to discuss the matter. Anna had no accusations and no one had any intention of going to the police and so forth. That's how I expected things to remain until I heard the news in Expressen.
The women never pressed charges, they wanted to force him to take an HIV test. The police interviewers decided to press charges and the prosecutor told them to drop it because they didn't have a case.
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George is being VERY controversial again
Snowfire;1401754 wrote: An interesting tweet from a blogger in the i newspaper this morning, in relation to Georges comments.
" If we extradite Assange while he's asleep, is that really extradition or is it bad manners ? "
George has also been given the sack as a columnist on the Scottish political magazine Holyrood and has been roundly condemned by senior figures in his own party.
George Galloway sacked as political columnist for rape remarks | Politics | guardian.co.uk
I think, had he stuck to Assange's situation and to the view as to whether the allegations had any foundation, rather than muddying the waters with his views on whether it was rape or not, he wouldn't find this gulf developing . Now the headlines are about George and not about Assange
But then that's what he was always about... courting publicity for himself not the cause.
" If we extradite Assange while he's asleep, is that really extradition or is it bad manners ? "
George has also been given the sack as a columnist on the Scottish political magazine Holyrood and has been roundly condemned by senior figures in his own party.
George Galloway sacked as political columnist for rape remarks | Politics | guardian.co.uk
I think, had he stuck to Assange's situation and to the view as to whether the allegations had any foundation, rather than muddying the waters with his views on whether it was rape or not, he wouldn't find this gulf developing . Now the headlines are about George and not about Assange
But then that's what he was always about... courting publicity for himself not the cause.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
George is being VERY controversial again
koan;1401774 wrote: I highly doubt he's regretting what he said. I'd be shocked if he apologizes.
Knowing the nature of George from over the years in the British media, I doubt there's much if anything he regrets or has apologised for. Not for the first time in his career however, has he diverted from the valid anti establishment stance he readily champions, by being, IMO, unnecessarily controversial. It always ends up about Gorgeous George Galloway and not about the real issues. His contradictions on Saddam Hussein, for example are well documented
Knowing the nature of George from over the years in the British media, I doubt there's much if anything he regrets or has apologised for. Not for the first time in his career however, has he diverted from the valid anti establishment stance he readily champions, by being, IMO, unnecessarily controversial. It always ends up about Gorgeous George Galloway and not about the real issues. His contradictions on Saddam Hussein, for example are well documented
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
George is being VERY controversial again
People are using basic meanings for words to create hysteria. If you look at how he used the words in specific connection, it's not really that controversial. Specifically, let look at the case of the "sleeping" woman. She woke up and didn't say "hey, what are you doing? please stop." She woke up, asked him if he had a condom on and gave him a condom to use. That constitutes consent.
This woman's problem isn't that she didn't want to have sex with Assange, it was that she didn't want to NOT have sex with him. She was so intent on having sex with him that she didn't ask him to leave when his personality started turning her off. She told people he changed after they got back to her apartment and started acting dismissive. Then he fell asleep without having sex. He was never told about the condom requirement because they didn't get that far.
Even if she'd told him that he had to use one if he wanted to have sex with her and he refused because she was a groupie/stalker and bored the hell out of him intellectually (which seems to be the case) so he was just there for the sex on his terms.... she didn't want to NOT have sex with him. Rape kind of requires the woman not wanting sex. He put the damn thing on after she told him to.
Both women wanted him to be forced to take an HIV test and went to police to inquire if there was a way to force the test. Neither one of them was going there to complain of rape. And the meek little one, Sofia, seems to have a phobia of STDs. Lets keep going over the facts here because, unless you get them in your head, you're having a futile discussion that is about all rapes of all women everywhere. And that's an impossible conversation to have with any reasonable use of simple words.
We're talking not about rape at all. It's about a terrified young woman who managed to catch the famous person she was pursuing, was too intent on the experience to say "no" when she decided he was an *******, let the ******* stay in her flat, slept next to him, and gave the ******* a condom when he woke her up with sexual advances. The one thing she didn't do was tell him stop having sex with her. She got what she thought she wanted and made a lot of bad decisions for which Assange should not be held responsible.
The other one, Anna... she's a different story. I think Anna should be investigated for charges against her.
This woman's problem isn't that she didn't want to have sex with Assange, it was that she didn't want to NOT have sex with him. She was so intent on having sex with him that she didn't ask him to leave when his personality started turning her off. She told people he changed after they got back to her apartment and started acting dismissive. Then he fell asleep without having sex. He was never told about the condom requirement because they didn't get that far.
Even if she'd told him that he had to use one if he wanted to have sex with her and he refused because she was a groupie/stalker and bored the hell out of him intellectually (which seems to be the case) so he was just there for the sex on his terms.... she didn't want to NOT have sex with him. Rape kind of requires the woman not wanting sex. He put the damn thing on after she told him to.
Both women wanted him to be forced to take an HIV test and went to police to inquire if there was a way to force the test. Neither one of them was going there to complain of rape. And the meek little one, Sofia, seems to have a phobia of STDs. Lets keep going over the facts here because, unless you get them in your head, you're having a futile discussion that is about all rapes of all women everywhere. And that's an impossible conversation to have with any reasonable use of simple words.
We're talking not about rape at all. It's about a terrified young woman who managed to catch the famous person she was pursuing, was too intent on the experience to say "no" when she decided he was an *******, let the ******* stay in her flat, slept next to him, and gave the ******* a condom when he woke her up with sexual advances. The one thing she didn't do was tell him stop having sex with her. She got what she thought she wanted and made a lot of bad decisions for which Assange should not be held responsible.
The other one, Anna... she's a different story. I think Anna should be investigated for charges against her.
George is being VERY controversial again
Here's another factor, everyone remembers Sofia from the conference because she was wearing a shocking pink cashmere sweater(jumper) and she stood out amongst a bunch of professional journalists and political people dressed conservatively. Ooops now everyone will be accusing me of saying she "asked for it" because of what she wore. No. She mentioned it herself, that she realized she looked out of place. That's why everyone remembers her. What the remember is that everyone kept asking who the hell she was and what she was doing there. To avoid being booted out of the crowd, where she had absolutely no ability to join the discussions, she kept telling them she was the one who got the cables. (Assange had needed a computer cable for the presentation and she offered to go get some for him)
It's part of the story. Ooops now I'm saying that groupies deserve to be raped? No. It's important to see how desperately she was pursuing Assange to determine why she didn't tell him to leave when he turned into an *******. There are a lot of assholes in the world and a lot of people who choose to have sex with those assholes even though they don't like them very much. Some people are more concerned with being able to say they slept with someone famous than whether or not that famous person is being very nice to them.
Hindsight is 20/20
Sofia was so upset they apprehended Assange to question him for rape that she stopped her interview and left the building. Her statements were never verified by reading them back because she didn't want to charge him with rape.
It's part of the story. Ooops now I'm saying that groupies deserve to be raped? No. It's important to see how desperately she was pursuing Assange to determine why she didn't tell him to leave when he turned into an *******. There are a lot of assholes in the world and a lot of people who choose to have sex with those assholes even though they don't like them very much. Some people are more concerned with being able to say they slept with someone famous than whether or not that famous person is being very nice to them.
Hindsight is 20/20
Sofia was so upset they apprehended Assange to question him for rape that she stopped her interview and left the building. Her statements were never verified by reading them back because she didn't want to charge him with rape.
George is being VERY controversial again
posted by koan.
I'd like to see the Swedes question him and find out if these women are for real. If not, I'd like to see them charged with libel and abuse of the legal system.
That is what he is dodging. If he really cared about free speech he would return to sweden, if subsequently he was extradited to the US to face charges of treason the furore would mean a sea change in european/us relations.
Sweden has a legal jury system acknowledged as being one of the better ones in europe. and one of the acknowledged best legal systems in europe and surely eny woman crying rape shpuld at least be taken seriously.
I think Sofia was truly traumatized.
Many rape victims make the claim and then retract it - most rapes are carried put by a person known to the victim and there is still the attitude that if you consent to sex once you have no right to say no to a second time or to change your mind at the last minute and the women in the cold light of day realise what is going to be said about them. Most decent men would think it wrong to have sex with someone that is unconscious at least now there is less of it was the victims fault for being e=unconscious in the first place.
I'd like to see the Swedes question him and find out if these women are for real. If not, I'd like to see them charged with libel and abuse of the legal system.
That is what he is dodging. If he really cared about free speech he would return to sweden, if subsequently he was extradited to the US to face charges of treason the furore would mean a sea change in european/us relations.
Sweden has a legal jury system acknowledged as being one of the better ones in europe. and one of the acknowledged best legal systems in europe and surely eny woman crying rape shpuld at least be taken seriously.
I think Sofia was truly traumatized.
Many rape victims make the claim and then retract it - most rapes are carried put by a person known to the victim and there is still the attitude that if you consent to sex once you have no right to say no to a second time or to change your mind at the last minute and the women in the cold light of day realise what is going to be said about them. Most decent men would think it wrong to have sex with someone that is unconscious at least now there is less of it was the victims fault for being e=unconscious in the first place.
George is being VERY controversial again
You talk as if he's avoiding the questioning. He's not. He's just demanding it be conducted in a place he feels safe. Sweden has conducted interviews with suspects abroad in the past. Assange is not refusing to answer their questions. Not now, not ever. He has made himself available for questioning many times.
Naomi Wolf has an interesting article on what's wrong with Sweden's case and it covers all the things you need to know to decide if Assange is being persecuted instead of prosecuted.
As to the afterthoughts of the women, neither of them has ever claimed they told Julian to stop. They both say they didn't consent to sex without a condom. He used a condom when given one in all circumstances. One broke, the other was given to him after the act had begun. If the woman didn't consent to sex why the hell did she give him a condom??!
Naomi Wolf has an interesting article on what's wrong with Sweden's case and it covers all the things you need to know to decide if Assange is being persecuted instead of prosecuted.
As to the afterthoughts of the women, neither of them has ever claimed they told Julian to stop. They both say they didn't consent to sex without a condom. He used a condom when given one in all circumstances. One broke, the other was given to him after the act had begun. If the woman didn't consent to sex why the hell did she give him a condom??!
George is being VERY controversial again
Another thing to consider strongly: Anna Ardin submitted a condom to the police as proof. She told them it was the one Assange used. It had no DNA on it and the size of the tear in was considered to have rendered it unusable. The lack of DNA indicated that the condom had never been used yet we have a woman submitting it as evidence, saying the rip in it was obviously intentional. Sure. She intentionally fabricated evidence. That's criminal.
Sofia seems to be the biggest victim in this whole affair. Anna used her, the Swedish interrogator (a facebook friend of Anna's) used her, Assange was really rude to her (spent more time on his computer than talking to her) and now everyone knows her name and face despite her fleeing the station to try and avoid the publicity.
Sofia seems to be the biggest victim in this whole affair. Anna used her, the Swedish interrogator (a facebook friend of Anna's) used her, Assange was really rude to her (spent more time on his computer than talking to her) and now everyone knows her name and face despite her fleeing the station to try and avoid the publicity.
George is being VERY controversial again
koan;1401811 wrote: Another thing to consider strongly: Anna Ardin submitted a condom to the police as proof. She told them it was the one Assange used. It had no DNA on it and the size of the tear in was considered to have rendered it unusable. The lack of DNA indicated that the condom had never been used yet we have a woman submitting it as evidence, saying the rip in it was obviously intentional. Sure. She intentionally fabricated evidence. That's criminal.
Sofia seems to be the biggest victim in this whole affair. Anna used her, the Swedish interrogator (a facebook friend of Anna's) used her, Assange was really rude to her (spent more time on his computer than talking to her) and now everyone knows her name and face despite her fleeing the station to try and avoid the publicity.
OK you have me partly convinced there, who on earth hangs on to a used condom, split or otherwise.
I 5hink it's highly likely this is political but imp he is going |G about dealing with it in the wring way. He shuold go back to sweden and see what happens. If the US try and extradite him there is no way they would get away with it and US/european relations would be vert badly damaged. Being north american you might find this hard to believe but most Europeans are anything but pleased about the way tgheir governments kowtow to the americans.
Sofia seems to be the biggest victim in this whole affair. Anna used her, the Swedish interrogator (a facebook friend of Anna's) used her, Assange was really rude to her (spent more time on his computer than talking to her) and now everyone knows her name and face despite her fleeing the station to try and avoid the publicity.
OK you have me partly convinced there, who on earth hangs on to a used condom, split or otherwise.
I 5hink it's highly likely this is political but imp he is going |G about dealing with it in the wring way. He shuold go back to sweden and see what happens. If the US try and extradite him there is no way they would get away with it and US/european relations would be vert badly damaged. Being north american you might find this hard to believe but most Europeans are anything but pleased about the way tgheir governments kowtow to the americans.
George is being VERY controversial again
gmc;1401829 wrote: OK you have me partly convinced there, who on earth hangs on to a used condom, split or otherwise.
I 5hink it's highly likely this is political but imp he is going |G about dealing with it in the wring way. He shuold go back to sweden and see what happens. If the US try and extradite him there is no way they would get away with it and US/european relations would be vert badly damaged. Being north american you might find this hard to believe but most Europeans are anything but pleased about the way tgheir governments kowtow to the americans.
Given that the Americans probably now realise that extradition would not be in their best interests how about life imprisonment for "rape" - the Swedes appear to be very accommodating at the moment.
I 5hink it's highly likely this is political but imp he is going |G about dealing with it in the wring way. He shuold go back to sweden and see what happens. If the US try and extradite him there is no way they would get away with it and US/european relations would be vert badly damaged. Being north american you might find this hard to believe but most Europeans are anything but pleased about the way tgheir governments kowtow to the americans.
Given that the Americans probably now realise that extradition would not be in their best interests how about life imprisonment for "rape" - the Swedes appear to be very accommodating at the moment.
George is being VERY controversial again
Bryn Mawr;1401833 wrote: Given that the Americans probably now realise that extradition would not be in their best interests how about life imprisonment for "rape" - the Swedes appear to be very accommodating at the moment.
I don't know what their sentence for rape is but i doubt very much it is life. They have also been very wary of getting involved with either side in the cold war and are not members of nato, it's no coincidence they have one of the most powerful military forces in europe both russia and the germans left them alone despite their strategic importance. I can't see why they would particularly want to humour the americans, more to the point even if the government did I suspect the swedish people would be a bit annoyed. I think assange has lost a lot of his credibility over this.
I don't know what their sentence for rape is but i doubt very much it is life. They have also been very wary of getting involved with either side in the cold war and are not members of nato, it's no coincidence they have one of the most powerful military forces in europe both russia and the germans left them alone despite their strategic importance. I can't see why they would particularly want to humour the americans, more to the point even if the government did I suspect the swedish people would be a bit annoyed. I think assange has lost a lot of his credibility over this.
George is being VERY controversial again
It's more credible to become a martyr? Let people picket outside a jail instead of an embassy? I don't see how that helps anyone. I'd much rather continue hearing what he has to say. Started watching his youtube show recently.
http://www.youtube.com/user/AssangeWorldTomorrow
http://www.youtube.com/user/AssangeWorldTomorrow
George is being VERY controversial again
koan;1401857 wrote: It's more credible to become a martyr? Let people picket outside a jail instead of an embassy? I don't see how that helps anyone. I'd much rather continue hearing what he has to say. Started watching his youtube show recently.
http://www.youtube.com/user/AssangeWorldTomorrow
You only become a martyr if you are actually immolated being jailed for rape is a bit different from that.
http://www.youtube.com/user/AssangeWorldTomorrow
You only become a martyr if you are actually immolated being jailed for rape is a bit different from that.
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Oscar Namechange
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George is being VERY controversial again
gmc;1401883 wrote: You only become a martyr if you are actually immolated being jailed for rape is a bit different from that.
There's even now alerts coming up on Facebook... Get 25,000 signatures for Assange...Like, yeah, that'll help him. Looks like nothing more than a fanclub full of middle aged,gusset twiddlers rather than a real site protesting at the Injustice.
There's even now alerts coming up on Facebook... Get 25,000 signatures for Assange...Like, yeah, that'll help him. Looks like nothing more than a fanclub full of middle aged,gusset twiddlers rather than a real site protesting at the Injustice.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
George is being VERY controversial again
gmc;1401838 wrote: I don't know what their sentence for rape is but i doubt very much it is life. They have also been very wary of getting involved with either side in the cold war and are not members of nato, it's no coincidence they have one of the most powerful military forces in europe both russia and the germans left them alone despite their strategic importance. I can't see why they would particularly want to humour the americans, more to the point even if the government did I suspect the swedish people would be a bit annoyed. I think assange has lost a lot of his credibility over this.
I cannot see why but they certainly appear to be, wary of getting involved or not they are going out of their way to pursue Assange on America's behalf.
I cannot see why but they certainly appear to be, wary of getting involved or not they are going out of their way to pursue Assange on America's behalf.