Clive James

Post by **spot** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:47 am

Bryn emailed me the link. I'm distressed by the news, I shall listen to the program on Saturday. Clive James has been a pinnacle of excellence for most of my life, I wish him well.

BBC News - Clive James says he is losing his battle with cancer

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:25 pm

I wonder why men's names like Clive, Nigel, Alastair, Neville, Simon, etc. never caught on in the states.

Post by **spot** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:32 pm

Because you opted out of the Commonwealth. You refused to be a colony any longer, you refused Dominion status, what you wanted was independence so we gave it to you. As a result you can't call any of your children Clive, Nigel, Alastair or Neville. Or Letitia.

Clive James had the good fortune to be born Australian.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:56 pm

Silly answer for a serious question I've been pondering for decades.

Post by **spot** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:04 pm

AnneBoleyn;1397335 wrote: Silly answer for a serious question I've been pondering for decades.

I shall consider a more serious response then, while licking my wounds.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:09 pm

spot;1397345 wrote: I shall consider a more serious response then, while licking my wounds.
Thank you.

Post by **spot** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:19 pm

AnneBoleyn;1397346 wrote: Thank you.

Consider just the boys' names in New York City in 2010, to get a feel for the puzzle. If you look at the top ten list for black and for white babies only one name is common to both lists. Even in that small a setting the suggestion is that names have a cultural association.

If you go wider to national top ten lists it's clear there's a cultural association. Muslim names reappear across predominantly Muslim nations, you can tell who's Palestinian and who's Jewish in Israel by their name, and I suggest there's a clear association between Commonwealth countries too. Which was my initial guess, you'll remember.

Looking just at the White USA list from the 1990 census I'd also guess that passing boy names down generations is as common in the US as it is in England, so I'll make my second guess. Firstly, most English emigrants (over the last 200 years at least) went to Commonwealth countries rather than the USA - I'm sure of that as a fact - so a lot of your names are, for example, Irish or Scots descent where they're not all-out European. Secondly, of those English who did emigrate, most came from the working class. Very few Clives, Nigels, Alastairs or Nevilles would have arrived on your shores. Or Letitias.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:48 am

Sorry to hear about Clive James. Hope he recovers enough to get home to Sydney. He has a delightful dry humour and seems to me to have brought common sense to a high state of perfection.

On the names, I think the US has had immigration in its early years from a far greater range of nations than the Dominions, which may have had an effect. I also have the impression that you kept the habit of naming from the Bible much longer than we did over here, though heaven knows where I picked up that idea. (I know we still have Davids and Ruths, but not many Ahabs these days!)

I wonder if GB descended families in the Dominions have also kept up the habit of naming after family members more even than us over here. There aren't many Herberts or Cecils in England these days, but I have the impression that if you are an Aussie, you might well have a Dad or Uncle with that name.

Post by **spot** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:33 am

Clodhopper;1397427 wrote: I also have the impression that you kept the habit of naming from the Bible much longer than we did over here, though heaven knows where I picked up that idea.I note the 2010 Black New York boy baby list carries Joshua, Elijah, Jeremiah and Ethan (you'll remember Ethan the Ezrahite?). I'm surprised not to see a Nathan or a Jehu (who driveth furiously, maybe as a New York cabbie) or an Ezekiel.

Good name, Ezekiel.

Heman is an Old Testament name too, but its meaning changed with the arrival of superheroes.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:51 am

:wah:

Good old Jehu! I know several...

I particularly enjoyed the phrase names: By-The-Grace-of-God Johnson, that sort of thing.

Thinking about it, I hope if England do well in the European Cup, the hero has a name a kid might want to be saddled with. England-1-0-Walcott-89th-Minute might make some Vicar's day?

Post by **spot** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:55 am

Clodhopper;1397441 wrote: I particularly enjoyed the phrase names: By-The-Grace-of-God Johnson, that sort of thing.I held out for longer than was reasonable to call my eldest boy Smite Evil With Both Hands but eventually gave way. Geoffrey frowns when I bring that up. I was prevented from registering the elder girl as Jezebel, too[1] - that ended up as the name of the cat, it's too good not to have one.

eta[1]: And, sadly, Clytemnestra.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:04 am

Amongst Zimbabweans I know first hand, are a Caution a Nomore a Beauty, and a Febee, presumably a misspelt Phoebe.

There are more, but I am having a mental blank

Post by **spot** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:07 am

Goodluck always struck me as a sensible name for a President.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:54 am

spot;1397443 wrote: I held out for longer than was reasonable to call my eldest boy Smite Evil With Both Hands but eventually gave way. Geoffrey frowns when I bring that up. I was prevented from registering the elder girl as Jezebel, too[1] - that ended up as the name of the cat, it's too good not to have one.

eta[1]: And, sadly, Clytemnestra.

:yh_rotfl

I am more disappointed than I should be that you eventually gave way.

Amongst Zimbabweans I know first hand, are a Caution a Nomore

Sometimes, despite all we do to the world and eachother, you have to love humanity.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:32 am

spot;1397349 wrote: Consider just the boys' names in New York City in 2010, to get a feel for the puzzle. If you look at the top ten list for black and for white babies only one name is common to both lists. Even in that small a setting the suggestion is that names have a cultural association.

If you go wider to national top ten lists it's clear there's a cultural association. Muslim names reappear across predominantly Muslim nations, you can tell who's Palestinian and who's Jewish in Israel by their name, and I suggest there's a clear association between Commonwealth countries too. Which was my initial guess, you'll remember.

Looking just at the White USA list from the 1990 census I'd also guess that passing boy names down generations is as common in the US as it is in England, so I'll make my second guess. Firstly, most English emigrants (over the last 200 years at least) went to Commonwealth countries rather than the USA - I'm sure of that as a fact - so a lot of your names are, for example, Irish or Scots descent where they're not all-out European. Secondly, of those English who did emigrate, most came from the working class. Very few Clives, Nigels, Alastairs or Nevilles would have arrived on your shores. Or Letitias.
I appreciate your input & will consider it. Thank you.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:40 am

There is at least one American Sebastian, my grandchild.