Is she right ?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri May 18, 2012 8:25 am

Baroness Warsi: Minority Of Pakistani Men Think White Girls Are 'Fair Game' For Sex Abuse

Funny old world eh?

Nick Griffin said the exact same thing three years ago and was arrested and charged for ' Inciting Racial Hatred'....... Not guilty In trial by Jury.....

She says the exact same thing and It's respectable...

Double standards and hypocrisy.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Fri May 18, 2012 10:01 am

oscar;1393910 wrote: Baroness Warsi: Minority Of Pakistani Men Think White Girls Are 'Fair Game' For Sex Abuse

Funny old world eh?

Nick Griffin said the exact same thing three years ago and was arrested and charged for ' Inciting Racial Hatred'....... Not guilty In trial by Jury.....

She says the exact same thing and It's respectable...

Double standards and hypocrisy.

Think Frank Carson

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri May 18, 2012 10:05 am

Bryn Mawr;1393928 wrote: Think Frank Carson

I appreciate Nick may not have put It so eloquently but It was the same thing.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri May 18, 2012 10:16 am

I always turn things upside down and try to see them from some other angle.

I fear that there are young girls, who happened to be white as it happens, who are put into danger by virtue of their and their parents lifestyle.

Add to that another culture living side by side who's females are chaperoned and have a honour code, putting them out of reach of the perpetrators of such carry ons.

As wrong as the Asian predator males are, the availability of the girls is almost as wrong.

And this is not the same argument as short skirts invite rape, rape is a one off event, these events happened over a long period of time.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Fri May 18, 2012 10:24 am

oscar;1393931 wrote: I appreciate Nick may not have put It so eloquently but It was the same thing.

I think you'll find he forgot the minority and put it a lot more forcefully - not the same thing at all.

In answer to your original question, she's as right as I am in saying :-

A minority of Englishmen think pre-pubecent children are 'fair game' for sex abuse.

theia · Post by **theia** » Fri May 18, 2012 10:32 am

Bruv;1393936 wrote: I always turn things upside down and try to see them from some other angle.

I fear that there are young girls, who happened to be white as it happens, who are put into danger by virtue of their and their parents lifestyle.

Add to that another culture living side by side who's females are chaperoned and have a honour code, putting them out of reach of the perpetrators of such carry ons.

As wrong as the Asian predator males are, the availability of the girls is almost as wrong.

And this is not the same argument as short skirts invite rape, rape is a one off event, these events happened over a long period of time.

I don't agree with this statement. And I think that it is the same argument as the "short skirts invite rape." Availability invites criminal activities? No.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri May 18, 2012 10:40 am

Bruv;1393936 wrote: I always turn things upside down and try to see them from some other angle.

I fear that there are young girls, who happened to be white as it happens, who are put into danger by virtue of their and their parents lifestyle.

Add to that another culture living side by side who's females are chaperoned and have a honour code, putting them out of reach of the perpetrators of such carry ons.

As wrong as the Asian predator males are, the availability of the girls is almost as wrong.

And this is not the same argument as short skirts invite rape, rape is a one off event, these events happened over a long period of time.

No it's not. The girls were children they are adults. If you take an action because you have the opportunity it is still you that took the action it is your fault your choice your responsibility to claim you could not resist the temptation and it wasn't your fault is a ludicrous argument. If a drunken girl is raped she may have been foolish but the one that commits the rape is still a rapist that took advantage of someone's vulnerability - as did these men. They took advantage of people because they knew they could that they knew it was wrong by every moral code under the sun just makes it worse. That they did so because they had a contempt for white girls is their problem not their victims.

It's not the same argument as short skirts tempt rapists but it's on similar lines.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri May 18, 2012 11:54 am

gmc;1393940 wrote: No it's not. The girls were children they are adults. If you take an action because you have the opportunity it is still you that took the action it is your fault your choice your responsibility to claim you could not resist the temptation and it wasn't your fault is a ludicrous argument. If a drunken girl is raped she may have been foolish but the one that commits the rape is still a rapist that took advantage of someone's vulnerability - as did these men. They took advantage of people because they knew they could that they knew it was wrong by every moral code under the sun just makes it worse. That they did so because they had a contempt for white girls is their problem not their victims.

It's not the same argument as short skirts tempt rapists but it's on similar lines.

Well said Auld Yin....

Some of my fellow Nationalists sat In the public gallery on some of the days of the trials of the Asian grooming gangs...

What seemed to emerge was that the victims all had things In common and that's why the prosecution could safely state they were targeted. Nearly all the girls came from single parent families and families dependant on benefit. Most came from area's of severe deprivation and lack of Investment usually council estates with little or no work..

It starts off with one young Asian usually between 18 and early twenties showering the girl that's been targeted with gifts. They then become boyfriend/girlfriend. Sometimes the girls are encouraged Into drugs.... Once they have had a 'relationship' as boyfriend and girlfriend for a while, he tells her she must sleep with his friends to keep him or get more drugs.

This routine shows that they are targeted and groomed.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sat May 19, 2012 12:08 am

I get fed up with this crap about single parents it's a kind of mantra trotted out by politicians to distract attention from their own failings and perhaps that of society. What they are effectively saying is that bastards or the children of single parents are people of no worth in society and they should be grateful for anything they get. That attitude is why the girls who went to the authorities were ignored and reports of abuse in orphanages and by priests were also ignored - we tend to discount the words of children as a child of a single parent you must be a liar anyway and will probably end up in jail at some point in the future.

posted by Bryn mawr

A minority of Englishmen think pre-pubecent children are 'fair game' for sex abuse.

A suitable analogy might be a minority of catholic priests are paedophiles but the children involved would have been safe if their parents had cared more and made sure their children were not available. The crime of the abusers running care homes is a lessor one because of the type of children involved - had they not been such liars people might have believed them sooner. That their victims were of a class with little standing in society does not excuse them. That their religious and cultural

beliefs were a factor is beyond dispute.

Every time some politician or religious leader rants on about the decline of family values and the break up of the family unit what they are really saying is they want problems hidden away under a façade of respectability and to ignore the abuse that happens within families or the reasons why marriages break up and the victims should keep their mouths shut and stop talking about it. In the good old days domestic abuse and violence and child exploitation was a taboo subject not something of which there was a lessor occurrence. Seeing someone striking a child is shocking but used to be commonplace and quite acceptable. We have people who seriously argue that not being able to hit a child has caused a breakdown in society.

Besides it's a myth that they all came from single parent homes.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -gang.html

koan · Post by **koan** » Sat May 19, 2012 1:44 am

Let us not forget that sex crime is not motivated by sexuality. It's motivated by powerlessness, anger and fear.

koan · Post by **koan** » Sat May 19, 2012 1:49 am

Having looked at the rather broadly worded articles I'd say they are way off base on assessing why the victims were chosen and for what reason. If you look carefully at the wording of the article it is basically just a gossip piece.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sat May 19, 2012 2:45 am

koan;1393969 wrote: Having looked at the rather broadly worded articles I'd say they are way off base on assessing why the victims were chosen and for what reason. If you look carefully at the wording of the article it is basically just a gossip piece.

Hardly that. She is a cabinet minister and the first muslim woman to reach such a position - hardly a gossip columnist trying to stir things up.

full interview

Full interview with Baroness Warsi: Father asked me 'why be a leader if you don't take the lead?' - Politics - News - Evening Standard

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sat May 19, 2012 6:21 am

I will try and explain what I think I meant in the earlier post.....

Some crimes can only happen under certain circumstances, many crimes thrive in particular environments, for instance pick pocketing on crowded trains. That is not condoning the criminal's actions or excusing them.

The grooming of young English girls by criminals from the Pakistani Muslim community, is such a crime.

No doubt they would have groomed girls from their own community if they were available. The nature of their closed communities and inter family ties and codes of honour are some protection. Our communities have lost that.

I think our two communities are perfect conditions for such crimes.

I could expand, but am failing to get the words onto the page, without sounding looney.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat May 19, 2012 6:27 am

Bruv;1393978 wrote: I will try and explain what I think I meant in the earlier post.....

Some crimes can only happen under certain circumstances, many crimes thrive in particular environments, for instance pick pocketing on crowded trains. That is not condoning the criminal's actions or excusing them.

The grooming of young English girls by criminals from the Pakistani Muslim community, is such a crime.

No doubt they would have groomed girls from their own community if they were available. The nature of their closed communities and inter family ties and codes of honour are some protection. Our communities have lost that.

I think our two communities are perfect conditions for such crimes.

I could expand, but am failing to get the words onto the page, without sounding looney.

I understand what you are saying.

gmc Is right........ this has been going on for years and at last the police have had to listen and act.... If they hadn't labelled these young girls as typical ' sink estate single parent offspring' then maybe much could have been saved years ago.

Instead, North Yorkshire police channeled their energy Into arresting and prosecuting Nick Griffin, who believe me, had evidence not just hearsay....

The Judge In his summing up In the latest string of convictions stated that these Asian men targeted the girls simply because they were not of their culture and he said that based on months of evidence In court...... Hardly a gossip piece Koan.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sat May 19, 2012 11:50 am

oscar;1393979 wrote: I understand what you are saying.

gmc Is right........ this has been going on for years and at last the police have had to listen and act.... If they hadn't labelled these young girls as typical ' sink estate single parent offspring' then maybe much could have been saved years ago.

Instead, North Yorkshire police channeled their energy Into arresting and prosecuting Nick Griffin, who believe me, had evidence not just hearsay....

The Judge In his summing up In the latest string of convictions stated that these Asian men targeted the girls simply because they were not of their culture and he said that based on months of evidence In court...... Hardly a gossip piece Koan.

He also, if I remember correctly, criticised the police for ignoring earlier complaints.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat May 19, 2012 11:58 am

gmc;1394002 wrote: He also, if I remember correctly, criticised the police for ignoring earlier complaints.

Nick Griffin as since received some sort of half mumbled apology from the police and an admission from a high ranking officer that this had been going on far longer than even Nick Griffin believed.... up to 12 years they have now admitted they have been aware.... so It does raise the question, why were these girls, their parents and grand parents Ignored?

Nick's theory Is that It was the fear of Inciting racial tensions In the North..... Or that they thought they could bury a few Isolated cases.... what do you think?

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sat May 19, 2012 2:58 pm

Let's not forget the cases oscar was on about a year or so back where the Police were investigating a grooming network and the BNP shouting to the papers caused the whole operation to be closed early. I spoke to the officer involved in that one and reported it back here at the time. The Police were not happy with the BNP for wrecking their innvestigation.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat May 19, 2012 3:25 pm

Clodhopper;1394009 wrote: Let's not forget the cases oscar was on about a year or so back where the Police were investigating a grooming network and the BNP shouting to the papers caused the whole operation to be closed early. I spoke to the officer involved in that one and reported it back here at the time. The Police were not happy with the BNP for wrecking their innvestigation.

I really don't know where you get half of this from really I don't....

Nick Griffin and Andrew Brons assisted North Yorkshire police In two cases... one that saw convictions and one ongoing Investigation....

But then, the police wouldn't lie to you would they ???????? :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

What with you being sooooo Important after all :yh_rotfl

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Sat May 19, 2012 6:55 pm

I've known since teenagehood that australian girls were the choice of "sowing the seeds" before marriage to girls of others cultures.

and yet we also have such a high apparent need for asian girls to work in our brothels by our own men.(usually illegal slaves)

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue May 22, 2012 3:22 pm

gmc;1393961 wrote: I get fed up with this crap about single parents it's a kind of mantra trotted out by politicians to distract attention from their own failings and perhaps that of society. What they are effectively saying is that bastards or the children of single parents are people of no worth in society and they should be grateful for anything they get. That attitude is why the girls who went to the authorities were ignored and reports of abuse in orphanages and by priests were also ignored - we tend to discount the words of children as a child of a single parent you must be a liar anyway and will probably end up in jail at some point in the future.

posted by Bryn mawr

A suitable analogy might be a minority of catholic priests are paedophiles but the children involved would have been safe if their parents had cared more and made sure their children were not available. The crime of the abusers running care homes is a lessor one because of the type of children involved - had they not been such liars people might have believed them sooner. That their victims were of a class with little standing in society does not excuse them. That their religious and cultural

beliefs were a factor is beyond dispute.

Every time some politician or religious leader rants on about the decline of family values and the break up of the family unit what they are really saying is they want problems hidden away under a façade of respectability and to ignore the abuse that happens within families or the reasons why marriages break up and the victims should keep their mouths shut and stop talking about it. In the good old days domestic abuse and violence and child exploitation was a taboo subject not something of which there was a lessor occurrence. Seeing someone striking a child is shocking but used to be commonplace and quite acceptable. We have people who seriously argue that not being able to hit a child has caused a breakdown in society.

Besides it's a myth that they all came from single parent homes.

Jessica had a loving, very middle-class upbringing. So how did she become a victim of the Rochdale sex gang? | Mail Online

I was not trying to make an analogy, I was trying to point out the spin being put on the statement, answer Oscar's question and show the difference in degree between what Baroness Warsi was saying and what Nick Griffin was prosecuted for saying.

Yes, the statement was true but not in the way that she and NG are trying to imply it is true, in the same way as the statement I made is true but no-one would attempt to generalise it to tar all Englishmen with the same brush.