Discrimination Within The Christian Faith?

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:20 am

Have you experienced any incidents of discrimination by others of faith because you are Seventh Day Adventist, Catholic, Methodist, Assembly of God, Baptist, Episcopalian, Lutheran, Latter Day Saint (Mormon), Jehovah Witnesss etc.?

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:17 am

Are you trying to start a fight???:wah:

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:21 am

Clint wrote: Are you trying to start a fight???:wah:

No need for a fight. Just discussion.:-6

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:26 am

IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m frankly a little suspicious. You say you arenÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t religious and donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t have any denominational ties. It seems like you may be trying to get people of faith stirred up against each other. You wouldnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t do that, would you?:rolleyes:

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:36 am

Clint wrote: IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m frankly a little suspicious. You say you arenÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t religious and donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t have any denominational ties. It seems like you may be trying to get people of faith stirred up against each other. You wouldnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t do that, would you?:rolleyes:

People of faith are already stirred up against each other in many instances Clint, and I have nothing to do with it. I see nothing wrong in discussing it.If people allow themselves to get STIRRED UP, that's their problem. Do we just ignore controversy and stick our heads in the sand or do we discuss and try to understand?

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:44 am

Lon wrote: People of faith are already stirred up against each other in many instances Clint, and I have nothing to do with it. I see nothing wrong in discussing it.If people allow themselves to get STIRRED UP, that's their problem. Do we just ignore controversy and stick our heads in the sand or do we discuss and try to understand?
Hmmmmmm:guitarist

telaquapacky · Post by **telaquapacky** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:24 am

Interesting question, Lon. I think the honest answer for most of us would be, "I don't know." In our country there are laws prohibiting religious discrimination. No one is going to tell you, "Well, we decided not to give you this job/rent you the apartment/etc. because you are a Druid (or whatever)." But I believe it happens all the time.

My answer is, on rare occasions I have met people who got subtly irritated and made little remarks that insinuated certain things commonly held against my religion (I can only distinctly remember once- I more often remember nice things people of other faiths have said about my religion), but I believe that anyone who is known for what they are- whatever it is- be it a profession, or sport, or hobby, there are some who will take an instant liking to you, and a few who will react the opposite way. It's good! Gives you an opportunity to show grace to them.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:46 am

Lon wrote: Have you experienced any incidents of discrimination by others of faith because you are Seventh Day Adventist, Catholic, Methodist, Assembly of God, Baptist, Episcopalian, Lutheran, Latter Day Saint (Mormon), Jehovah Witnesss etc.?
Lon, itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s happened again. I read your post one way and now I see others read it a totally different way.

"discrimination by others of faith"...telaquapacky didn't focus on this and I did. I think I'm going to have to pass on your posts. I seem to be missing your point and it seems I'm picking up on the negative aspect.

I'm glad you are here...I really am.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:47 am

telaquapacky wrote: Interesting question, Lon. I think the honest answer for most of us would be, "I don't know." In our country there are laws prohibiting religious discrimination. No one is going to tell you, "Well, we decided not to give you this job/rent you the apartment/etc. because you are a Druid (or whatever)." But I believe it happens all the time.

My answer is, on rare occasions I have met people who got subtly irritated and made little remarks that insinuated certain things commonly held against my religion (I can only distinctly remember once- I more often remember nice things people of other faiths have said about my religion), but I believe that anyone who is known for what they are- whatever it is- be it a profession, or sport, or hobby, there are some who will take an instant liking to you, and a few who will react the opposite way. It's good! Gives you an opportunity to show grace to them.

Thank you for your response TELE. I wasn't really thinking about public incidents of discrimination, becasue as you say, there are laws against it.

No, I was thinking of the more subtle or even overt incidences of discrimination of a personal nature. I have heard many people of faith condemn and criticize someone else's faith in a very less than Christian manner and was curious as to how much of this is directed to the individual. Jehovah Witnesses for example-----because of their door to door evangeliszing, receive (and deservedly so) considerable flak and discrimination. Young Morman missionaries on their bicycles, white shirts and black trousers have had epithets thrown at them. My grandparents were Seventh Day Adventist Missionaries and encountered discrimination simply for observing the sabbath on Saturday.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 11:29 am

Glasgow, Ibrox on a saturday just after Rangers are playing. Try walking past wearing a green shirt it will give you a whole new meaning to discrimination within the christian faith.

robinseggs · Post by **robinseggs** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:01 pm

My inlaws are Catholic. I was raised Presbyterian. I was taught to respect and love others. When I met my husband I was very open minded about learning the Catholic faith. I took classes, went to mass, and even officially converted to Catholicism. Ten yrs later, my husband doesn't go to church and I do although it is neither a Catholic or Presbyterian church. It is Disciples of Christ denomination. I believe there is only one God and Christ, so to me it doesn't really matter to me where I go to worship. God knows I am there. However my inlaws have voiced their disapproval. I could care less! I believe it is a very UN-Christian thing to judge anybody's relationship w/ God. My mother in law told me once to "just be careful--you don't know what Bible they are using!" And I kindly replied...."And YOURS is the RIGHT one, I suppose?????"

telaquapacky · Post by **telaquapacky** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:43 pm

Clint wrote: Lon, itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s happened again. I read your post one way and now I see others read it a totally different way.

"discrimination by others of faith"...telaquapacky didn't focus on this and I did. I think I'm going to have to pass on your posts. I seem to be missing your point and it seems I'm picking up on the negative aspect.

I'm glad you are here...I really am.I don't think you missed anything, Clint. I was not just referring to discrimination in general but by others of other faiths. I know that your faith is one of the most badly and unfairly discriminated against- in 're comparison, I know absolutely nothing of the experience.

I have observed that people who have experienced a lot of discrimination find it hard to talk about, and an uncomfortable subject. If it were me, I would be in the conundrum of on one hand not wanting to be too much a complainer or seem ungracious, and on the other hand, wanting to be a tough advocate for my people. I would on the one hand want to inform others how it feels so they would be more careful about it, but on the other hand, my pride would make me not want to admit that it was getting to me.

Rapunzel · Post by **Rapunzel** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:31 pm

When my children were very small I lived in a very Jewish area of London.

Golders Green is full of Jews but Temple Fortune, within Golders Green, is a highly orthodox area for Jews. I used to like watching them visit the house nearby which they had turned into a temple. On Saturdays the women and girls wore the most beautiful designer clothes and I loved listening to them singing. I found it amusing that I was the only one who stayed at the hairdressers to have my hair cut. All the Jewish women shaved their heads and wore wigs - which they left at the hairdressers to be washed and styled! I was interested that my healh visitor was surprised I only had 2 children - most Jewish women apparently had 15 - to 'replace' those lost in the war. However, I was NOT amused when I took my little boy to the park and the other mothers ordered their children to stay away from him because he was not Jewish! For Gods sake ...this is ENGLAND! NOT Israel!

Also, a non-Jewish girl was murdered by a Jewish boy. The police arrested the boy pending a trial. The Jewish community made a HUGE fuss saying that he was one of their's and they should be responsible for his punishment. This is one of many incidents where they believed their laws were 'better' than the laws of our land.

Going back to the thread about immigrants - I believe if you live in our land - you should obey our laws!

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:33 pm

[quote=telaquapacky] Clint,I know that your faith is one of the most badly and unfairly discriminated against- in 're comparison, I know absolutely nothing of the experience.

Hmmm----you know more about Clint than I do. From his posts, it shows him to be a believer, but I know nothing of his particular faith.

telaquapacky · Post by **telaquapacky** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:45 pm

I have an old friend who is Jewish. Many years ago, I unwittingly used an antisemitic remark in a conversation with him, a remark that was sometimes used by my parents. When I realized what I had said, I just kept talking and hoped, lamely, that he wouldn't take it personally. He never showed that he noticed it, or said anything about it. I agonized over it from then on, with no relief to my conscience. From that time on, whenever a friend told a "Jewish Joke," I gently advised against that kind of humor.

Years later, we had not seen one another for some time, because our careers led us different ways. but then a couple of years ago we started working more close by, and restarted our friendship. For at least a year, I wanted desperately to confess and repent of what I had said and make it right, but I couldn't bring myself to say it- I was too ashamed.

Then my friend had a great personal tragedy. One of his two sons, aged seven, drowned in a jet ski accident. I tried to be supportive. His personality had always been so sardonic and bone-dryly facetious before- a really unique sense of humor I didn't always know how to take- I was always too intimidated to be deeply personal with him. Now he was really opening up emotionally in ways he never had before. So after his initial grief faded some, and we now had a friendship in which we could talk more, I made my confession. He couldn't remember the incident, or that I had ever said anything offensive.

I think for all the discrimination Jews take, they are amazingly gracious about it. Antisemitism is a reality we non-Jews often take too lightly, or are in denial about it in ourselves.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:49 pm

Okay, Lon and telaquapacky in view of your posts and the one between them :wah: , I'll contribute some.

Messianic Jews get it from all sides. There are few beliefs that IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m aware of that find it necessary to hire armed security so they can worship. It is really telling since we donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t teach against other faiths. We only try to teach what we believe to be truth to those who willingly come.

There is absolutely nothing to be gained by teaching against or speaking against someone elseÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s faith with one notable exception. There is a faith that wants us dead and we see the need to enlighten others to their deepest motivation.

telaquapacky · Post by **telaquapacky** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 3:03 pm

Clint wrote: Messianic Jews get it from all sides. I never thought of that, but it figures. Charis, Shalom and Mazel Tov, Clint!

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:09 pm

Clint wrote: Okay, Lon and telaquapacky in view of your posts and the one between them :wah: , I'll contribute some.

Messianic Jews get it from all sides. There are few beliefs that IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m aware of that find it necessary to hire armed security so they can worship. It is really telling since we donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t teach against other faiths. We only try to teach what we believe to be truth to those who willingly come.

There is absolutely nothing to be gained by teaching against or speaking against someone elseÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s faith with one notable exception. There is a faith that wants us dead and we see the need to enlighten others to their deepest motivation.

Ah ha, thanks for the claification. Not that it matters, but I didn't know you were a Jew. Growing up as a kid on the East Coast most of my childhood friends were Jews and Italian Catholics. I thought for some time that I was Jewish too, until I turned 13 and no one gave me a Bar Mitzvah. I turned the lights either on or off on Friday nights and then reversed it on Sat night for my Jewish paper route customers. For that extra service I was oft times tipped with knishes and gefilte fish to take home.

Some of these younger posters are probably not evern aware that certain New York Hotels would not allow Jews during the WW2 years. Ironic isn't it, given New Yorks heavy Jewish population.

No offense by this following comment Clint, but I always thought there was a big difference between East Coast and West Coast Jews. The West Coasters always struck me as being "watered down Jews" compared to their eastern brethern. Don't despair, we non-believers (if it's known) catch a lot of flak as well.

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:27 pm

You said it Jackie. I can't stand hypocrites. I've now come to see them as a test of my patience though.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:19 pm

Hypocrites (actors) exist in all walks of life. The word has attached itself to religion and more directly to Christianity, causing other hypocrites to go almost unnoticed. I find the most appalling hypocrites among those who push political correctness. I also see hypocrites standing out in glaring brilliance among those who point their fingers at hypocrites.

I know...guilty as charged.