When I was a teenager, I was a bad kid. I was in and out of trouble, went to a school for truants and used drugs. I went to a special school in Philadelphia, PA (Shallcross) for kids with truancy problems.
Anyway, our teacher at Shallcross used to be a teacher at the Philadelphia House of Corrections, and he scheduled a class trip to the prison so that we could see what could happen to us if we didn't straighten up and fly right. There was a boy in my class, Tom Hodges. He was a nice enough guy, but the smart-alexie type. One of the inmates we were talking to picked Tom out right away from the group of us all and told him that he, the inmate, used to be like Tom and that he, Tom, had better straighten up or that he was going to end up right there in prison, just like that inmate.
Well, three years later, Tom Hodges had half of his face blown off by a gun. He died at the age of 19.
Well, back to me now -- I had through the years learned how to do astral projection, you know, where your spirit leaves your body, and you can places. It's an occult science or a spiritual gift, depending on how you look at it or use it.
I was on an astral trip one night, and I met up with Tom Hodges. Tom took me to this house. When we were in the hallway of this old and dark house, Tom walked one way, and I walked the other.
I opened a door to a room and stepped into the room -- and I fell and fell. I found myself hoovering over very hot flames. They were close enough to my face. I couldn't see through them, and my face was very hot and sweaty. I remember hearing women screaming and men moaning in pain. I heard some beings, demons, talking about holding a woman still so that they could have their way with her, rape her, and do things to her. I remember the one saying, "Come on, hold her still now."
I prayed to Jesus. I said, "Oh, Lord, get me out of here." The Good Lord pulled me up, and the pit brought me back down. I prayed again, "Oh, come on, Lord, you've got to get me out of here." I was terrified and freaked out. The Good Lord pulled me up and out of the pit.
I just wanted to share the Lord's and Tom's message about hell. It is very real, and we need to be very careful about how we conduct our lives. Walking the Godly walk is the only way to go.
Vision of Hell
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Valerie100
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Valerie100
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Vision of Hell
Here is a website completely dedicated to the art of astral projection. They even offer courses on it. Astral projection can get really freaky, so you have to be very careful with it.
www.astralweb.org/astralforums/6_102.html
Here is the technique that I use. I imagine myself floating on my back in a swimming pool. I feel the water moving my body. I feel my body floating on the water. I fall asleep with this imagine and the sensations in my mind. 95% percent of the time, I leave my body by doing this. I learned this from an Indian woman online called "Skyhawk," I think her name was. I couldn't find her website anymore. This was some years ago.
The idea is that you need to be completely relaxed and in a sleep-like state when you leave your body. I have forced my astral body out of myself when I'm like this. Sometimes it happens naturally. I have also noticed a whizzing sound by my ears at times when I've don't astral projection.
Read this website if this subject interests you. There is a lot to it. I hope you can learn it. Good luck
www.astralweb.org/astralforums/6_102.html
Here is the technique that I use. I imagine myself floating on my back in a swimming pool. I feel the water moving my body. I feel my body floating on the water. I fall asleep with this imagine and the sensations in my mind. 95% percent of the time, I leave my body by doing this. I learned this from an Indian woman online called "Skyhawk," I think her name was. I couldn't find her website anymore. This was some years ago.
The idea is that you need to be completely relaxed and in a sleep-like state when you leave your body. I have forced my astral body out of myself when I'm like this. Sometimes it happens naturally. I have also noticed a whizzing sound by my ears at times when I've don't astral projection.
Read this website if this subject interests you. There is a lot to it. I hope you can learn it. Good luck
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telaquapacky
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Vision of Hell
You mentioned that astral projection is occultic, which by definition is something not of "the Good Lord," but of Satan. If it is of Satan, then any vision you would see while practicing astral projection would be a false and misleading vision. How confident do you feel recommending people to communicate with God through a channel He strictly forbids?
The threat of eternal hellfire is not a sincere or God-inspired motivation to live a moral life. That false teaching really gives Christianity and Christians a bad name. Yes, I know Christians have taught this. The same Christians who burned, tortured and imprisoned people for disagreeing with them. Evidently they thought salvation was through compulsion rather than by living, loving, trusting faith.
Valerie, I think your intentions are essentially good, but I believe you are misinformed about spiritual things. In this vision Satan has accommodated your desire to be right with Jesus, and has co-opted Him with a false Lord, who would dangle you over the fires of hell, and force you by fear of pain and torture forever to obey Him. Satan knows that in time you will come to hate that kind of God, and then he can reel you in.
The threat of eternal hellfire is not a sincere or God-inspired motivation to live a moral life. That false teaching really gives Christianity and Christians a bad name. Yes, I know Christians have taught this. The same Christians who burned, tortured and imprisoned people for disagreeing with them. Evidently they thought salvation was through compulsion rather than by living, loving, trusting faith.
Valerie, I think your intentions are essentially good, but I believe you are misinformed about spiritual things. In this vision Satan has accommodated your desire to be right with Jesus, and has co-opted Him with a false Lord, who would dangle you over the fires of hell, and force you by fear of pain and torture forever to obey Him. Satan knows that in time you will come to hate that kind of God, and then he can reel you in.
Look what the cat dragged in.
Vision of Hell
telaquapacky wrote: You mentioned that astral projection is occultic, which by definition is something not of "the Good Lord," but of Satan. If it is of Satan, then any vision you would see while practicing astral projection would be a false and misleading vision. How confident do you feel recommending people to communicate with God through a channel He strictly forbids?
The threat of eternal hellfire is not a sincere or God-inspired motivation to live a moral life. That false teaching really gives Christianity and Christians a bad name. Yes, I know Christians have taught this. The same Christians who burned, tortured and imprisoned people for disagreeing with them. Evidently they thought salvation was through compulsion rather than by living, loving, trusting faith.
Valerie, I think your intentions are essentially good, but I believe you are misinformed about spiritual things. In this vision Satan has accommodated your desire to be right with Jesus, and has co-opted Him with a false Lord, who would dangle you over the fires of hell, and force you by fear of pain and torture forever to obey Him. Satan knows that in time you will come to hate that kind of God, and then he can reel you in.
I sure do agree. Jesus draws us with His love rather than to scare us with fire. He wants a relationship with us. Good relationships don’t start by one person holding another over an open fire.
The threat of eternal hellfire is not a sincere or God-inspired motivation to live a moral life. That false teaching really gives Christianity and Christians a bad name. Yes, I know Christians have taught this. The same Christians who burned, tortured and imprisoned people for disagreeing with them. Evidently they thought salvation was through compulsion rather than by living, loving, trusting faith.
Valerie, I think your intentions are essentially good, but I believe you are misinformed about spiritual things. In this vision Satan has accommodated your desire to be right with Jesus, and has co-opted Him with a false Lord, who would dangle you over the fires of hell, and force you by fear of pain and torture forever to obey Him. Satan knows that in time you will come to hate that kind of God, and then he can reel you in.
I sure do agree. Jesus draws us with His love rather than to scare us with fire. He wants a relationship with us. Good relationships don’t start by one person holding another over an open fire.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
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nvalleyvee
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Vision of Hell
I hope I don't get pounded by this...I think astral projection is real but not in Val100's way of thinking. It is a meditation kind of thing and not influenced by God or Satan. If I am correct in my studies - most people have out-of-body experiences because they have very bad emotional trauma in their lives AND HAVE EMOTIONALLY CHOSEN TO "LEAVE" the situation. Thus out-of-body experiences.
The growth of knowledge depends entirely on disagreement..........Karl R. Popper
Vision of Hell
[QUOTE=nvalleyvee]I hope I don't get pounded by this...I think astral projection is real but not in Val100's way of thinking. It is a meditation kind of thing and not influenced by God or Satan.
I agree, nvalleyvee. I also strongly agree with Clint about the loving relationship with God.
I agree, nvalleyvee. I also strongly agree with Clint about the loving relationship with God.
Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answers...Rainer Maria Rilke
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nvalleyvee
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Vision of Hell
theia wrote: [QUOTE=nvalleyvee]I hope I don't get pounded by this...I think astral projection is real but not in Val100's way of thinking. It is a meditation kind of thing and not influenced by God or Satan.
I agree, nvalleyvee. I also strongly agree with Clint about the loving relationship with God.
I agree with Clint too. I prefer to think the souls who went before us provide that loving relationship with a higher power....
I agree, nvalleyvee. I also strongly agree with Clint about the loving relationship with God.
I agree with Clint too. I prefer to think the souls who went before us provide that loving relationship with a higher power....
The growth of knowledge depends entirely on disagreement..........Karl R. Popper
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telaquapacky
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Vision of Hell
nvalleyvee wrote: I agree with Clint too. I prefer to think the souls who went before us provide that loving relationship with a higher power....NV, can you unpack that a little? When you say, "souls that went before us," are you referring to spirits of our loved ones who have died? Certainly we are inspired by the memory of their faithful deeds and words while in this life, but are you saying that they can visit us even now and provide guidance to our relationship with God?
Look what the cat dragged in.
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Valerie100
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Vision of Hell
I think that the Good Lord God Almighty will reach us and teach us in any way possible, as long as it makes us turn to him and trust him. That's what he wants. If this means showing us a vision of hell or making us less than comfortable to get the message, guess what? He's going to show us that vision or upset things to bring us around. He wants us to call on him and to have faith. I had faith that he would save me from the pit, and he did. You can believe it or not. I know what I witnessed, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
Quite frankly, I think that your take on it is all wrong. I don't believe Satan was playing with my desire to get right with God -- how do you know that I wasn't at that time right with God, by the way? God surely did pull me up and out of the pit. My friend Tom gave me the warning, just as he had once received about his own life.
Astral projection, for me, is more than just meditation or trying to escape -- that is so not my case. I enjoy traveling with it and going places. I've never considered it escaping from myself -- it's always been just because I wanted to go somewhere or see something. Yes, it is occultistic. So what does that mean? We're all sinners. I've opened the astral projection door, so does that mean that God won't answer me if I cry out to him for help? I now have this ability that he can make use of if he wants to. God knows where I stand and where my heart and mind are.
No, friends, I disagree with your opinions, and you can all believe in any way you want to -- we all have our own opinions, and what is right for me might be wrong for you and vice versa. God does work in many wonderous ways, and there is a time and a place for everything. The Bible even says that. That means that there is a time and a place to take an astral trip and see a vision of hell.
How could Satan be playing with my desire to get right with God, when it was God that pulled me up and out of the pit? Wouldn't Satan want to keep me there in the pit, like, he tried to when I was pulled back down, before God pulled me up and out of it the final time? If Satan was playing with my desire to get right with God, why would he chose a way that forced me to rely upon faith and calling on God for help? Satan knows the Bible. He knows about faith. He wouldn't chose a method of operation that only serves to strengthen a person's belief and faith in the Lord God Almighty. I don't think Satan is stupid.
I realize that my experience is subject to interpretation by one and all. These are my beliefs and this is how I feel.
Quite frankly, I think that your take on it is all wrong. I don't believe Satan was playing with my desire to get right with God -- how do you know that I wasn't at that time right with God, by the way? God surely did pull me up and out of the pit. My friend Tom gave me the warning, just as he had once received about his own life.
Astral projection, for me, is more than just meditation or trying to escape -- that is so not my case. I enjoy traveling with it and going places. I've never considered it escaping from myself -- it's always been just because I wanted to go somewhere or see something. Yes, it is occultistic. So what does that mean? We're all sinners. I've opened the astral projection door, so does that mean that God won't answer me if I cry out to him for help? I now have this ability that he can make use of if he wants to. God knows where I stand and where my heart and mind are.
No, friends, I disagree with your opinions, and you can all believe in any way you want to -- we all have our own opinions, and what is right for me might be wrong for you and vice versa. God does work in many wonderous ways, and there is a time and a place for everything. The Bible even says that. That means that there is a time and a place to take an astral trip and see a vision of hell.
How could Satan be playing with my desire to get right with God, when it was God that pulled me up and out of the pit? Wouldn't Satan want to keep me there in the pit, like, he tried to when I was pulled back down, before God pulled me up and out of it the final time? If Satan was playing with my desire to get right with God, why would he chose a way that forced me to rely upon faith and calling on God for help? Satan knows the Bible. He knows about faith. He wouldn't chose a method of operation that only serves to strengthen a person's belief and faith in the Lord God Almighty. I don't think Satan is stupid.
I realize that my experience is subject to interpretation by one and all. These are my beliefs and this is how I feel.
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telaquapacky
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Vision of Hell
Valerie100 wrote: He wouldn't chose a method of operation that only serves to strengthen a person's belief and faith in the Lord God Almighty. I don't think Satan is stupid. Question number one would be: how do you know that belief in an eternal, burning hell is consistent with an accurate faith in God? The Bible teaches that human beings are not naturally immortal. Therefore, the lost will one day cease to exist. There will be no eternal hell fire. Eternally living sinners and an eternally burning hell fire to burn them in was an invention of men. Satan has used this horrific teaching to offend millions against God who otherwise might have been happy believers in God. It's Satan's most successful deception, and is taught by many churches who should know better. I'm glad for you that so horrid a concept has not caused you to reject God like it has done to so many other people, but that doesn't mean you are completely out of danger.
How do you know that belief that our dead can communicate with us, or that reliable spiritual truth may be revealed that way? The Bible strictly forbids attempts to communicate with the dead. Satan and his fallen angels can very easily and convincingly mimic any person who has ever lived. If your dearest and most trusted departed relative appeared to you in a vision, how would you know this was not a demon impersonating them? If the apparition of your loved one told you to follow some teacher or leader, how would you know that it was not a demon tricking you into following the Antichrist? Once you stray from the clear counsels of the Bible, you are open to deception and danger to your soul.
You don't believe that Satan gives visions and works miracles to deceive religious people into thinking those visions and miracles are of God? The Bible says that in the end times Satan will work great deceiving miracles and wonders, so that they might deceive even the saved people of God. It says he masquerades as an angel of light, and that his servants masquerade as agents of righteousness. Would Satan give powerful, emotionally deceiving religious visions to believing people? You bet he does! The Bible clearly says Satan does that. He'd be stupid not to.
How do you know that belief that our dead can communicate with us, or that reliable spiritual truth may be revealed that way? The Bible strictly forbids attempts to communicate with the dead. Satan and his fallen angels can very easily and convincingly mimic any person who has ever lived. If your dearest and most trusted departed relative appeared to you in a vision, how would you know this was not a demon impersonating them? If the apparition of your loved one told you to follow some teacher or leader, how would you know that it was not a demon tricking you into following the Antichrist? Once you stray from the clear counsels of the Bible, you are open to deception and danger to your soul.
You don't believe that Satan gives visions and works miracles to deceive religious people into thinking those visions and miracles are of God? The Bible says that in the end times Satan will work great deceiving miracles and wonders, so that they might deceive even the saved people of God. It says he masquerades as an angel of light, and that his servants masquerade as agents of righteousness. Would Satan give powerful, emotionally deceiving religious visions to believing people? You bet he does! The Bible clearly says Satan does that. He'd be stupid not to.
Look what the cat dragged in.
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Valerie100
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Vision of Hell
Yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it was from Satan. The Bible says that in the end times people will be developing strange and unusual abilities.
Tell me, have you noticed an unusual happening going on in the world lately? ESP has grown by leaps and bounds, not to change the subject. Many people are now reading minds with ease, especially those that work with people a lot or that work with the government and/or legal professions.
So if people aren't going to develop strange and unusual abilities or have things shown to them, and what happened to me was a trick of Satan's -- explain talking in tongues. Aren't these people shown and/or told things in different languages? Is this all occultistic and from Satan?
Oh, and as far as the Burning Times and the Reformation, those were different times. Public executions were done so often. It doesn't excuse them, but the people were rougher. They were raised seeing that stuff, gathered in squares or wherever for the viewing of them, and that is what they knew. Those were more barbaric times. Humanity wasn't as civilized.
Tell me, have you noticed an unusual happening going on in the world lately? ESP has grown by leaps and bounds, not to change the subject. Many people are now reading minds with ease, especially those that work with people a lot or that work with the government and/or legal professions.
So if people aren't going to develop strange and unusual abilities or have things shown to them, and what happened to me was a trick of Satan's -- explain talking in tongues. Aren't these people shown and/or told things in different languages? Is this all occultistic and from Satan?
Oh, and as far as the Burning Times and the Reformation, those were different times. Public executions were done so often. It doesn't excuse them, but the people were rougher. They were raised seeing that stuff, gathered in squares or wherever for the viewing of them, and that is what they knew. Those were more barbaric times. Humanity wasn't as civilized.
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telaquapacky
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Vision of Hell
Like you, I also got into a lot of trouble and did drugs when I was younger. I guess that doing drugs and seeing the things I saw, I learned to NOT trust everything that entered my senses, nor always accept things as they appear.
This vision you saw bears a resemblance to a lesson I have a text of, which young children used to be taught in Roman Catholic schools. This lesson described terrible horrors of hell, with demons administering the most cruel and sadistic tortures with fiendish delight, and a poor, little girl being chained to a red-hot metal table with flames shooting out of her mouth, ears and eyes, being struck by a striking demon, who with every blow of his hammer made her twice as distressed and panic-stricken and racked with pain and agony as before, and striking her over and over and over for ever and ever and ever. That's exponential suffering! I had a friend years ago who told me he was taught that same lesson in Catholic school and as a result, he is now a confirmed atheist. He gets hostile even if you mention the name of God. I would venture a guess that there are quite a few people here on FG who fiercely despise God and religion, because they were taught this same depraved lesson at a tender, impressionable age. Who could blame them?
Valerie100 wrote: I heard some beings, demons, talking about holding a woman still so that they could have their way with her, rape her, and do things to her. I remember the one saying, "Come on, hold her still now."
About the your quote above, I would only like to ask you to examine your vision a little more closely and think about it. Demons are sinful and evil. Why is hell a place of recreation and pleasure for them, while it's a place of punishment for us? This leaves only two possibilities: one, that God is unjust and does not punish the worst offenders as they deserve, but lets them "have their way" in hell. The other, that the demons are actually God's henchmen, to perform for Him the dirty work of tormenting. What does this say about God? He's no better than the worst demons are. How can one say He is a God of love, while claiming that he maintains and operates a cruel, 24-hour eternal torture chamber where unspeakable atrocities are performed?
And think about eternity. Scripture, sadly says that the average person is lost. Jesus said, "Wide is the gate and easy is the way that leads to destruction, and many find it, but narrow is the gate and difficult is the way that leads to salvation, and few find it. I don't know how well you know statistics, but there is no possible way that the majority doesn't include all average people. How much pain and suffering does the average person cause in a lifetime? Even a selfish sinner- how much pain and suffering does the selfish sinner cause to others? A human lifespan isn't long enough to allow us to do the kind of damage that justly deserves eternity in burning torture. A god who would do this would be sadistic, cruel, and infinitely unjust- certainly not a god deserving of our love, obedience or worship.
God said "an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth." Few people realize that this law was actually intended to LIMIT the civil and legal penalties against offenders so not to exceed the damage done- pay an ox for an ox, a sheep for a sheep, and no more. God made this law because of the hardness of people's hearts- His preference always was that we should forgive one another. If God ran an eternal hell of fire and torture for human sinners, He would be breaking His own law! God doesn't do that. Or would God be more hard hearted than He expects us to be?
Look at our Savior, Jesus. Scripture is very plain and clear on the fact that His death on the cross was sufficient to pay the price for the sins of the whole world. He was only on the cross a few hours. He is not still burning and twicthing and screaming in pain. This isn't just because He's "worth more" than we are. He didn't wimp out, or get special privileges because He is the Judge's Son. He paid a sufficient penalty to cover the worst sinner's due. Sure, it was bad, but it was not by any stretch of the imagination an eternity in agony.
I believe you may have been brought up from earliest youth believing some things that you have never questioned or thought about in much depth or carefulness. Is it possible that you have carried into your new spiritual pursuits the same old misconceptions you were brought up with? A truly beneficial, spiritual growth experience may meet you where you are, but it will not leave you there. How is it that something that is supposed to make you more enlightened and lift you to a higher level of spiritual awareness has only perpetuated cruel fantasies that you should have grown out of?
If you insist on doing AP, I won't talk you out of it. But all I ask as a friend and a brother in Christ that you thoughtfully reconsider the cruel and unlovely false concept of god they tried to brainwash you with as a child. It will amaze you how much happier with God you'll be and how much more joyfully you can love Him when you come to the realization that He is not the cruel and sadistic tyrant that hard hearted men have made Him out to be.
This vision you saw bears a resemblance to a lesson I have a text of, which young children used to be taught in Roman Catholic schools. This lesson described terrible horrors of hell, with demons administering the most cruel and sadistic tortures with fiendish delight, and a poor, little girl being chained to a red-hot metal table with flames shooting out of her mouth, ears and eyes, being struck by a striking demon, who with every blow of his hammer made her twice as distressed and panic-stricken and racked with pain and agony as before, and striking her over and over and over for ever and ever and ever. That's exponential suffering! I had a friend years ago who told me he was taught that same lesson in Catholic school and as a result, he is now a confirmed atheist. He gets hostile even if you mention the name of God. I would venture a guess that there are quite a few people here on FG who fiercely despise God and religion, because they were taught this same depraved lesson at a tender, impressionable age. Who could blame them?
Valerie100 wrote: I heard some beings, demons, talking about holding a woman still so that they could have their way with her, rape her, and do things to her. I remember the one saying, "Come on, hold her still now."
About the your quote above, I would only like to ask you to examine your vision a little more closely and think about it. Demons are sinful and evil. Why is hell a place of recreation and pleasure for them, while it's a place of punishment for us? This leaves only two possibilities: one, that God is unjust and does not punish the worst offenders as they deserve, but lets them "have their way" in hell. The other, that the demons are actually God's henchmen, to perform for Him the dirty work of tormenting. What does this say about God? He's no better than the worst demons are. How can one say He is a God of love, while claiming that he maintains and operates a cruel, 24-hour eternal torture chamber where unspeakable atrocities are performed?
And think about eternity. Scripture, sadly says that the average person is lost. Jesus said, "Wide is the gate and easy is the way that leads to destruction, and many find it, but narrow is the gate and difficult is the way that leads to salvation, and few find it. I don't know how well you know statistics, but there is no possible way that the majority doesn't include all average people. How much pain and suffering does the average person cause in a lifetime? Even a selfish sinner- how much pain and suffering does the selfish sinner cause to others? A human lifespan isn't long enough to allow us to do the kind of damage that justly deserves eternity in burning torture. A god who would do this would be sadistic, cruel, and infinitely unjust- certainly not a god deserving of our love, obedience or worship.
God said "an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth." Few people realize that this law was actually intended to LIMIT the civil and legal penalties against offenders so not to exceed the damage done- pay an ox for an ox, a sheep for a sheep, and no more. God made this law because of the hardness of people's hearts- His preference always was that we should forgive one another. If God ran an eternal hell of fire and torture for human sinners, He would be breaking His own law! God doesn't do that. Or would God be more hard hearted than He expects us to be?
Look at our Savior, Jesus. Scripture is very plain and clear on the fact that His death on the cross was sufficient to pay the price for the sins of the whole world. He was only on the cross a few hours. He is not still burning and twicthing and screaming in pain. This isn't just because He's "worth more" than we are. He didn't wimp out, or get special privileges because He is the Judge's Son. He paid a sufficient penalty to cover the worst sinner's due. Sure, it was bad, but it was not by any stretch of the imagination an eternity in agony.
I believe you may have been brought up from earliest youth believing some things that you have never questioned or thought about in much depth or carefulness. Is it possible that you have carried into your new spiritual pursuits the same old misconceptions you were brought up with? A truly beneficial, spiritual growth experience may meet you where you are, but it will not leave you there. How is it that something that is supposed to make you more enlightened and lift you to a higher level of spiritual awareness has only perpetuated cruel fantasies that you should have grown out of?
If you insist on doing AP, I won't talk you out of it. But all I ask as a friend and a brother in Christ that you thoughtfully reconsider the cruel and unlovely false concept of god they tried to brainwash you with as a child. It will amaze you how much happier with God you'll be and how much more joyfully you can love Him when you come to the realization that He is not the cruel and sadistic tyrant that hard hearted men have made Him out to be.
Look what the cat dragged in.
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Valerie100
- Posts: 419
- Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 6:31 am
Vision of Hell
Not to get into an argument here, but I wasn't raised Catholic. I never had that vision forced upon me at an impressionable young age. I also was never taught to believe that God is cruel. Believe me, I do know better.
As far as the worst offenders not being punished, like, the demons of hell, if you have ever read Revelations (which everyone should, we're supposed to get a special blessing from God for reading that chapter), in the end times they will get what's coming to them. God is saving the worst for last.
As for those demons actually enjoying it in hell, right now, they probably are. If they can torture, torment and wreck havoc upon the souls of God's creations (and they know how this must hurt and upset him), because of their own hate for God and thurst for power, don't you think that they would enjoy torturing human souls?
I do believe that God will use whatever means necessary to bring people around to him, but never ever did I say he was a cruel God -- nor do I believe that. We are, however, supposed to fear him.
For what it's worth, though, God did let his only begotten son die on a cross for our sins. Jesus was murdered. If God would do that, let that happen to his own son to save human souls, don't you think that he would show one of his children a vision of hell if it served his own purposes?
How do we all know today, as we sit here reading this, that God's purpose for showing me that vision of hell is what I'm fulfilling here today, by posting this on this website? Do we really know that to be the case or not to be the case? No.
Oh, and by the way, I wasn't on drugs. Drugs weren't in the equation.
As far as the worst offenders not being punished, like, the demons of hell, if you have ever read Revelations (which everyone should, we're supposed to get a special blessing from God for reading that chapter), in the end times they will get what's coming to them. God is saving the worst for last.
As for those demons actually enjoying it in hell, right now, they probably are. If they can torture, torment and wreck havoc upon the souls of God's creations (and they know how this must hurt and upset him), because of their own hate for God and thurst for power, don't you think that they would enjoy torturing human souls?
I do believe that God will use whatever means necessary to bring people around to him, but never ever did I say he was a cruel God -- nor do I believe that. We are, however, supposed to fear him.
For what it's worth, though, God did let his only begotten son die on a cross for our sins. Jesus was murdered. If God would do that, let that happen to his own son to save human souls, don't you think that he would show one of his children a vision of hell if it served his own purposes?
How do we all know today, as we sit here reading this, that God's purpose for showing me that vision of hell is what I'm fulfilling here today, by posting this on this website? Do we really know that to be the case or not to be the case? No.
Oh, and by the way, I wasn't on drugs. Drugs weren't in the equation.
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TenneseeGirl
- Posts: 289
- Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:06 pm
Vision of Hell
Valerie100 wrote: For what it's worth, though, God did let his only begotten son die on a cross for our sins. Jesus was murdered. If God would do that, let that happen to his own son to save human souls, don't you think that he would show one of his children a vision of hell if it served his own purposes?
Sorry this is where i have to disagree with you. I do not believe that jesus was gods son. I do not believe that jesus ever wanted to be worshiped in the sence that he is now. I think that if you look at the dead sea scrolls, and the fact that the bible was not written by god or jesus, but by men that so wanted to be in their graces, that they glorified the stories, you can see this.
Also if you want to delve into more of this "holly book" we should look at how the new testimate and the christian holidays were designed aroung the pegan days and holidays )christmas=yule easter = ostara ectera ectera. )
(as i digress, not a personal attack just an oppinion on christianity is what follows )
I think the point of god is to have faith. Not what you have faith in. This is the one thing that gets my goat. You worship a man who is the "son" of the god who said "thou shalt have no gods before me" and then preach your knowledge of his life and ways. Inorder to truley understand christ you have to walk in his shoes. Have you? have you givven up all material possesions in search of the devine? have you fasted for 40 days in order to clense your body of all the toxins that you ingest? have you walked that path??? if you have not then do not quote to me the things that jesus has done and ways that christions need to act. because only those who have walked, truley walked the path of christ will understand what it is to be one of "gods children". i have not. but i know the difference. i do not claim to know what will happen. because i have not crossed that precious threshold that keeps this world from the next.
again this is just my oppinion and i do not wish to knock anyones personal beliefs
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Just some food for thought. Swallow it or not, thats up to you.
Sorry this is where i have to disagree with you. I do not believe that jesus was gods son. I do not believe that jesus ever wanted to be worshiped in the sence that he is now. I think that if you look at the dead sea scrolls, and the fact that the bible was not written by god or jesus, but by men that so wanted to be in their graces, that they glorified the stories, you can see this.
Also if you want to delve into more of this "holly book" we should look at how the new testimate and the christian holidays were designed aroung the pegan days and holidays )christmas=yule easter = ostara ectera ectera. )
(as i digress, not a personal attack just an oppinion on christianity is what follows )
I think the point of god is to have faith. Not what you have faith in. This is the one thing that gets my goat. You worship a man who is the "son" of the god who said "thou shalt have no gods before me" and then preach your knowledge of his life and ways. Inorder to truley understand christ you have to walk in his shoes. Have you? have you givven up all material possesions in search of the devine? have you fasted for 40 days in order to clense your body of all the toxins that you ingest? have you walked that path??? if you have not then do not quote to me the things that jesus has done and ways that christions need to act. because only those who have walked, truley walked the path of christ will understand what it is to be one of "gods children". i have not. but i know the difference. i do not claim to know what will happen. because i have not crossed that precious threshold that keeps this world from the next.
again this is just my oppinion and i do not wish to knock anyones personal beliefs
~~~~
Just some food for thought. Swallow it or not, thats up to you.
~~~~~
Just some food for thought. Swallow it or not that's up to you.
Just some food for thought. Swallow it or not that's up to you.
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Valerie100
- Posts: 419
- Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 6:31 am
Vision of Hell
Sorry, but you're entitled to your beliefs, and I'm entitled to mine. I'm not going to debate about this.
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TenneseeGirl
- Posts: 289
- Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:06 pm
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telaquapacky
- Posts: 754
- Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:00 pm
Vision of Hell
Oh, Valerie- one thing I forgot to mention. You told me you are not Roman Catholic. I'm curious if you believe in purgatory. How do you know that the vision you saw was not a vision of purgatory, instead of hell? The reason I asked is that I have heard of at least two people who claim to have had visions of purgatory similar to the vision you related about hell. They too felt these visions confirmed their beliefs beyond any question, and were so convicted that they also felt that they had been called by God to tell as many people about their vision to persuade them to mend their evil ways and repent.
Oh well, I guess everyone has a different style of evangelism.
Oh well, I guess everyone has a different style of evangelism.
Look what the cat dragged in.
Vision of Hell
Valerie100 wrote: Sorry, but you're entitled to your beliefs, and I'm entitled to mine. I'm not going to debate about this.
Wait, wait...just out of curiosity, why would you post a thread like this if you weren't interested in discussion? It's a discussion forum.
Wait, wait...just out of curiosity, why would you post a thread like this if you weren't interested in discussion? It's a discussion forum.
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
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TenneseeGirl
- Posts: 289
- Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:06 pm
Vision of Hell
BabyRider wrote: Wait, wait...just out of curiosity, why would you post a thread like this if you weren't interested in discussion? It's a discussion forum.
Glad someone said it!
Glad someone said it!
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Just some food for thought. Swallow it or not that's up to you.
Just some food for thought. Swallow it or not that's up to you.
Vision of Hell
TenneseeGirl wrote: Glad someone said it!
Well, sheesh. If someone just wants to impose their view points, they can start a journal, right? Nothing is more annoying to me than a person who starts a discussion and then can't abide any disagreement on the topic, no matter how politely it's offered.
Note the tag line, people!! :yh_bigsmi
Welcome to FG, Tennessee, I don't think I ever caught an intro thread from you. :yh_peace
Well, sheesh. If someone just wants to impose their view points, they can start a journal, right? Nothing is more annoying to me than a person who starts a discussion and then can't abide any disagreement on the topic, no matter how politely it's offered.
Note the tag line, people!! :yh_bigsmi
Welcome to FG, Tennessee, I don't think I ever caught an intro thread from you. :yh_peace
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
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TenneseeGirl
- Posts: 289
- Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:06 pm
Vision of Hell
BabyRider wrote: Well, sheesh. If someone just wants to impose their view points, they can start a journal, right? Nothing is more annoying to me than a person who starts a discussion and then can't abide any disagreement on the topic, no matter how politely it's offered.
Note the tag line, people!! :yh_bigsmi
Welcome to FG, Tennessee, I don't think I ever caught an intro thread from you. :yh_peace
LMAO i know what your saying. :wah: somepeople just cant debate a topic that is so close to them... in which case i do not believe they should post a topic they arent able to discuss. Isnt discussion the point? all well i dont mind it too much...
Note the tag line, people!! :yh_bigsmi
Welcome to FG, Tennessee, I don't think I ever caught an intro thread from you. :yh_peace
LMAO i know what your saying. :wah: somepeople just cant debate a topic that is so close to them... in which case i do not believe they should post a topic they arent able to discuss. Isnt discussion the point? all well i dont mind it too much...
~~~~~
Just some food for thought. Swallow it or not that's up to you.
Just some food for thought. Swallow it or not that's up to you.
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Valerie100
- Posts: 419
- Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 6:31 am
Vision of Hell
The point is: We all have our own opinions about my experience here. The only one that can really answer how it was -- is me, no matter who else is trying to interpret it. You can't change my opinions about this experience, or my religious beliefs for that matter, and I can't change yours. We are at a stalemate here. There is nothing further to debate, and I'm not going to argue about it. It is what it is -- case closed.
Vision of Hell
I would like to comment on the original point of this thread-vision of hell.
Hell is not a place it is a state of being that is created by many himself and Jesus well understood that. He warned folks of the hell that would result from their behaviour either on a personal level or a national level.
Satan is the personification of all that is evil. "He" is not a being. The Bible speaks of prinicpalities and powers.
If Jesus was not the "Son of God" in one way or another, what was he?--the Great Pumpkin.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Hell is not a place it is a state of being that is created by many himself and Jesus well understood that. He warned folks of the hell that would result from their behaviour either on a personal level or a national level.
Satan is the personification of all that is evil. "He" is not a being. The Bible speaks of prinicpalities and powers.
If Jesus was not the "Son of God" in one way or another, what was he?--the Great Pumpkin.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Vision of Hell
an imaginary friend, perhaps? or maybe just a man who talked a good tale.
Vision of Hell
It is amazing what the mind can do when one is asleep. We are presented with all manner of wierd things.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Shalom
Ted:-6