Breakout discussion from Remembering Davy Jones of The Monkeys

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:57 pm

spot;1386128 wrote: That's the sort of defence appropriate to Alvin and the Chipmunks. Not too far adrift from the thread topic, admittedly. What's up ? No answer ?

'My way' was not written by Frank Sinatra but by Paul Anka. Yet, no-one doubts that Paul Anka could never have given the song the justice Sinatra did. Years later, the same song performed by Sid Vicious was a gulf away from the deliverence of Sinatra. There-fore, It doesn't matter who writes the stuff, If the right man doesn't sing It, It's useless.

Likewise, It didn't matter who wrote the Monkee's, without the right people to perform It, It will never be a hit.

My example Is perfectly straight forward.

Davy Jones was an actor who achieved great acclaim especially In his performance as the Artful Dodger In Oliver the musical In London and Broadway.

He released his own songs on albums called 'Just Me' and 'She'.

He may have made his name by The Monkee's In the early 60's but he has done much more since.

Post by **spot** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:03 pm

oscar;1386129 wrote: It doesn't matter who writes the stuff, If the right man doesn't sing It, It's useless.That's the sort of defence appropriate to Alvin and the Chipmunks. Not too far adrift from the thread topic, admittedly.

We appear to have different tastes in music, thank Christ.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:06 pm

spot;1386130 wrote: That's the sort of defence appropriate to Alvin and the Chipmunks. Not too far adrift from the thread topic, admittedly.

We appear to have different tastes in music, thank Christ. Here's a novel Idea. Now I know It's a bit whacky but let's give It a go eh ?

Let's leave threads for newly demised artiste's to those who appreciated them.

I know It's a bit off the wall, but give It a go. It could just work.

Post by **spot** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:07 pm

I'd much rather discuss things, it's healthier. We are not an In Memoriam gravesite.

How about if you stop going for my throat all the while instead?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:16 pm

spot;1386132 wrote:

How about if you stop going for my throat all the while instead?

Stop writing cobblers and the need will cease to present It'self.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:30 pm

Post by **spot** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:30 pm

oscar;1386133 wrote: Stop writing cobblers and the need will cease to present It'self.

It's fascinating that you find it a need. The site no doubt provides different uses to different members. Perhaps we're a cheap form of psychotherapy in this instance.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:41 pm

spot;1386135 wrote: It's fascinating that you find it a need. The site no doubt provides different uses to different members. Perhaps we're a cheap form of psychotherapy in this instance.
Coming from one who feels the need to correct, demand links and demand actual documented evidence from other members, I feel you are a little, pot, kettle etc.

Post by **spot** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:46 pm

I'm aware that that's your perception. I, the person you claim "feels the need", tell you you're mistaken. You won't listen. There's not a lot I can do about your mental state other than to tell you you're wrong.

I'm going to split this tosh out of the thread, it's immaterial and it happens far too often.

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:33 pm

I know what you mean, Oscar... but I also think about a song

written many, many years ago that was written for Patsy Cline

who died before she ever got the chance to perform it.

When it finally was performed, it was given to young LeAnn Rimes.

I loved her version, but can't help but think that Patsy Cline could

have done as good or better with it. We'll never know of course,

so it might not be the best example, but maybe I can think of another

at some point.

"Blue" - LeAnn Rimes (HQ Music Video) - YouTube

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:50 pm

valerie;1386143 wrote: I know what you mean, Oscar... but I also think about a song

written many, many years ago that was written for Patsy Cline

who died before she ever got the chance to perform it.

When it finally was performed, it was given to young LeAnn Rimes.

I loved her version, but can't help but think that Patsy Cline could

have done as good or better with it. We'll never know of course,

so it might not be the best example, but maybe I can think of another

at some point.

"Blue" - LeAnn Rimes (HQ Music Video) - YouTube

Good example Valerie. Yes, I bet she Patsy would have made It her own.

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:00 am

Sid Vicious's My Way is a cult classic. I worship not just his video but the reinactment in the film Sid and Nancy. Notwithstanding, Davey Jones became popular whilst not being permitted to perform any music himself. That kind of precludes him having earned any merit as a musical performer. Sid, on the other hand, was allowed to massacre his way to the top all on his own merit of being a total waste case. I think Sid deserves more credit.

I'll die before I'm 25, and when I do I'll have lived the way I wanted to.

Sid Vicious

Read more: Sid Vicious Quotes - BrainyQuote
At least he was honest... and the guitar he misplayed was always his own performance.

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:07 am

It's a thing of beauty

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:53 am

koan;1386152 wrote: Sid Vicious's My Way is a cult classic. I worship not just his video but the reinactment in the film Sid and Nancy. Notwithstanding, Davey Jones became popular whilst not being permitted to perform any music himself. That kind of precludes him having earned any merit as a musical performer. Sid, on the other hand, was allowed to massacre his way to the top all on his own merit of being a total waste case. I think Sid deserves more credit.

At least he was honest... and the guitar he misplayed was always his own performance. Sid Vicious ( Simon Ritchie ) could not even play the bass guitar, had no talent what-so-ever, lived In squats earning money as a rent boy, was violent, until he became nothing but a puppet at the hands of Malcolm McClaren to add rawness to the Sex Pistols. He was a hopeless drug addict, possible killer who was on his way out of The Pistols because of Nancy Spungeon's Influence on him.

He was mentally retarded and If there was ever a case of Exploitation then this Is It. They used him and abused him. He died penniless and alone.

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:02 am

But he was awesome!

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:10 am

“Well, you know, like, I don't really give a **** what the general public think.”

"I was the only guy with any bit of anarchy left."

and honest:

"We are better than anyone, ain't we? Except for the Eagles, the Eagles are better than us."

And he fulfilled his ambitions:

"Undermine their pompous authority, reject their moral standards, make anarchy and disorder your trademarks. Cause as much chaos and disruption as possible but don't let them take you ALIVE."

Davey Jones let them cast him as a model and finally convinced them to let him play a couple of songs their way.

eta: and the video "my way" that you posted in the other thread is credited to the Sex Pistols but is Sid's best known work and it was done after he left Sex Pistols, under the management of Spungeon. The Sex Pistols not only had more hits than The Monkees, they paved the way for a whole new music genre. Rotten refused to accept a Hall of Fame award because it was beneath them.

Also... it's the Monkees

theia · Post by **theia** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:24 am

Whenever I hear about the death of a well known celebrity, the amount of sadness I feel depends upon the degree to which that person played a part in my personal memories. It doesn't matter whether or not they were all singing, all dancing original wonders. It's the effect their loss has on my personal history.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:54 am

theia;1386164 wrote: Whenever I hear about the death of a well known celebrity, the amount of sadness I feel depends upon the degree to which that person played a part in my personal memories. It doesn't matter whether or not they were all singing, all dancing original wonders. It's the effect their loss has on my personal history.

That's a very good point and I think we all feel that way.

I'm dreading the day Mick Jagger goes for I shall be devastated.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:43 am

koan;1386163 wrote: “Well, you know, like, I don't really give a **** what the general public think.”

"I was the only guy with any bit of anarchy left."

and honest:

"We are better than anyone, ain't we? Except for the Eagles, the Eagles are better than us."

And he fulfilled his ambitions:

"Undermine their pompous authority, reject their moral standards, make anarchy and disorder your trademarks. Cause as much chaos and disruption as possible but don't let them take you ALIVE."

Davey Jones let them cast him as a model and finally convinced them to let him play a couple of songs their way.

eta: and the video "my way" that you posted in the other thread is credited to the Sex Pistols but is Sid's best known work and it was done after he left Sex Pistols, under the management of Spungeon. The Sex Pistols not only had more hits than The Monkees, they paved the way for a whole new music genre. Rotten refused to accept a Hall of Fame award because it was beneath them.

Also... it's the Monkees

Spungeon also exploited Sid. She needed money and with no hope of getting It herself through legal methods, she used Sid's fame to cash In.

Sid Is actually a very good example that with manufactured bands such as the Monkee's, the creators should not always take the credit as Spot seems to think.

Sid's Image was manufactured even down to his snarl and what he wore by Malcolm McClaren. The one thing Sid did have was a presence that young punks Identified with. The fact that he was mentally retarded and talentless showed a vulnerability that some also Identified with.

However, the Image of Sid In the film 'Sid and Nancy' Is far removed from the violent nightmare that he was. There's a romanticism attached to his life now-a-days that just doesn't tally with the grubby, sordid reality.