Forgiveness
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Valerie100
- Posts: 419
- Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 6:31 am
Forgiveness
Does anybody know what the Bible has to say about forgiveness when it comes to a person or people who don't necessarily want you to or care if you forgive them? Is there anything in the Good Book about forgiving somebody who could care less about your forgiveness and will continue to hurt you anyway? I guess you're supposed to just remain calm and strong and turn the other check. How do you forgive someone who doesn't want to be forgiven, and what do Jesus and/or the disciples have to say about that?
Forgiveness
forgivenesss is something you do for yourself. YOUR peace of mind. but i don't know what the Bible has to say.
Forgiveness
Since we are the only ones we can change, I think all the Biblican forgiveness referenes speak to what 'we' should do.
We all have free will.
Should someone choice not to want you to forgive them does not take away your free will to forgive them.
We all have free will.
Should someone choice not to want you to forgive them does not take away your free will to forgive them.
Forgiveness
Valerie100 wrote: Does anybody know what the Bible has to say about forgiveness when it comes to a person or people who don't necessarily want you to or care if you forgive them? Is there anything in the Good Book about forgiving somebody who could care less about your forgiveness and will continue to hurt you anyway? I guess you're supposed to just remain calm and strong and turn the other check. How do you forgive someone who doesn't want to be forgiven, and what do Jesus and/or the disciples have to say about that?
How about just forgiving them and then keep it to yourself ?
How about just forgiving them and then keep it to yourself ?
Forgiveness
Matthew 18:21-35 Jesus speaking...
21Then Peter came up and said to him, "Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?" 22Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven.
23"Therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants.24When he began to settle, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. 25And since he could not pay, his master ordered him to be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and payment to be made. 26So the servant fell on his knees, imploring him, 'Have patience with me, and I will pay you everything.' 27And out of pity for him, the master of that servant released him and forgave him the debt. 28But when that same servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii, and seizing him, he began to choke him, saying, 'Pay what you owe.' 29So his fellow servant fell down and pleaded with him, 'Have patience with me, and I will pay you.' 30He refused and went and put him in prison until he should pay the debt. 31When his fellow servants saw what had taken place, they were greatly distressed, and they went and reported to their master all that had taken place. 32Then his master summoned him and said to him, 'You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33And should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?' 34And in anger his master delivered him to the jailers, until he should pay all his debt. 35So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart."
21Then Peter came up and said to him, "Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?" 22Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven.
23"Therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants.24When he began to settle, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. 25And since he could not pay, his master ordered him to be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and payment to be made. 26So the servant fell on his knees, imploring him, 'Have patience with me, and I will pay you everything.' 27And out of pity for him, the master of that servant released him and forgave him the debt. 28But when that same servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii, and seizing him, he began to choke him, saying, 'Pay what you owe.' 29So his fellow servant fell down and pleaded with him, 'Have patience with me, and I will pay you.' 30He refused and went and put him in prison until he should pay the debt. 31When his fellow servants saw what had taken place, they were greatly distressed, and they went and reported to their master all that had taken place. 32Then his master summoned him and said to him, 'You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33And should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?' 34And in anger his master delivered him to the jailers, until he should pay all his debt. 35So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart."
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Forgiveness
Valerie100 wrote: Does anybody know what the Bible has to say about forgiveness when it comes to a person or people who don't necessarily want you to or care if you forgive them? Is there anything in the Good Book about forgiving somebody who could care less about your forgiveness and will continue to hurt you anyway? I guess you're supposed to just remain calm and strong and turn the other check. How do you forgive someone who doesn't want to be forgiven, and what do Jesus and/or the disciples have to say about that?
In my experience, if you remain calm, strong and turn the other cheek, you'll find the other person carries on as before completely ignoring your forgiveness and you become very wound up and pi$$ed off because you're trying SO hard to be nice and they're being a complete moron and ignoring you!
Why not go up to them, preferably in front of other people, and say quite loudly and in a martyred voice "I forgive you" then look at them very sadly and walk away. With any luck they'll stand there open mouthed and looking like a fool. Oh, and if they start to argue say "Jesus said 'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone'!" That's ALWAYS a conversation killer!
If you say nothing...you feel bad.
If you say something like this...you feel better for having your say and they feel thoroughly pi$$ed off...which they totally deserve!
Doesn't the Bible say - God helps those who help themself?
and also - an eye for an eye, etc.
Good Luck! :-6
In my experience, if you remain calm, strong and turn the other cheek, you'll find the other person carries on as before completely ignoring your forgiveness and you become very wound up and pi$$ed off because you're trying SO hard to be nice and they're being a complete moron and ignoring you!
Why not go up to them, preferably in front of other people, and say quite loudly and in a martyred voice "I forgive you" then look at them very sadly and walk away. With any luck they'll stand there open mouthed and looking like a fool. Oh, and if they start to argue say "Jesus said 'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone'!" That's ALWAYS a conversation killer!
If you say nothing...you feel bad.
If you say something like this...you feel better for having your say and they feel thoroughly pi$$ed off...which they totally deserve!
Doesn't the Bible say - God helps those who help themself?
and also - an eye for an eye, etc.
Good Luck! :-6
Forgiveness
Funny this topic should come up right now. I've been torn here lately. I was taught that wishing someone dead was the same as murdering them. Here is my dilemma. As some of you know, months ago an adult hit my 17 year old son in the head with a ball bat. This adult is an alcoholic and drug addict. To me, this does not excuse what he did. The man is now lying in the hospital recovering from a drug overdose. I feel guilty for not caring if he made it or not. I would not wish death on anyone, but I feel bad for thinking if he died, no great loss. While I would like to be able to forgive him, I can't. Not when it comes to one of my kids. How do you forgive something like this?
Forgiveness
flopstock wrote: Now wait a minute here clint...
are you telling me that the heavenly father expects mere mortals to forgive 77 sins against us, but he only has to give 1 pass. Isn't there kind of a conflict between that and 'showing us the way'? What ever happened to leading by example? :-2
Actually, he said 7X70 or 490 times.
He didn’t say the wicked servant wouldn’t be forgiven. He said the wicked servant would be disciplined.
His personal example is that of becoming man, suffering rejection by His own people and His own creation, then being tortured and murdered. He did it all so we could have forgiveness once and for all. When He was on the cross, He said; “forgive them Father, for they know not what they do.†His example was the example of how far we should go to forgive.
are you telling me that the heavenly father expects mere mortals to forgive 77 sins against us, but he only has to give 1 pass. Isn't there kind of a conflict between that and 'showing us the way'? What ever happened to leading by example? :-2
Actually, he said 7X70 or 490 times.
He didn’t say the wicked servant wouldn’t be forgiven. He said the wicked servant would be disciplined.
His personal example is that of becoming man, suffering rejection by His own people and His own creation, then being tortured and murdered. He did it all so we could have forgiveness once and for all. When He was on the cross, He said; “forgive them Father, for they know not what they do.†His example was the example of how far we should go to forgive.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Forgiveness
Peg wrote: Funny this topic should come up right now. I've been torn here lately. I was taught that wishing someone dead was the same as murdering them. Here is my dilemma. As some of you know, months ago an adult hit my 17 year old son in the head with a ball bat. This adult is an alcoholic and drug addict. To me, this does not excuse what he did. The man is now lying in the hospital recovering from a drug overdose. I feel guilty for not caring if he made it or not. I would not wish death on anyone, but I feel bad for thinking if he died, no great loss. While I would like to be able to forgive him, I can't. Not when it comes to one of my kids. How do you forgive something like this?
That is difficult. If you can rise above your understandable emotions on this one you will know in your heart that you have grown beyond what you ever imagined possible. At this point a man lying in a hospital bed recovering from his extreme weakness has power over you. If you forgive him he will no longer have that power.
What are the advantages to you if you don’t forgive him?
That is difficult. If you can rise above your understandable emotions on this one you will know in your heart that you have grown beyond what you ever imagined possible. At this point a man lying in a hospital bed recovering from his extreme weakness has power over you. If you forgive him he will no longer have that power.
What are the advantages to you if you don’t forgive him?
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Forgiveness
Peg wrote: Funny this topic should come up right now. I've been torn here lately. I was taught that wishing someone dead was the same as murdering them. Here is my dilemma. As some of you know, months ago an adult hit my 17 year old son in the head with a ball bat. This adult is an alcoholic and drug addict. To me, this does not excuse what he did. The man is now lying in the hospital recovering from a drug overdose. I feel guilty for not caring if he made it or not. I would not wish death on anyone, but I feel bad for thinking if he died, no great loss. While I would like to be able to forgive him, I can't. Not when it comes to one of my kids. How do you forgive something like this?
Perhaps your prayer should be "Dear Lord, Help me to want to forgive him"
And be careful of what you pray, cause there is the delemia I found myself in. I prayed for "a person" who my daughter "loved". I prayed that he become the best possible person he could, that he be happy and make a good life for himself. What I did not pray was that this would all be away from my daughter -- I figured God would understand this. Well, off she went with him - - from Ohio to Vegas. His life improved. My daughter's life went down the toilet. I felt betrayed. I had done the "right thing". I had prayed for him. So I stopped talking to God.
It took time, but once God has you, he never lets you go. God and I now talk again and I have matured in my faith.
The biggest change is I finally, finally gave it all over to God and have tried to stop interfering with His work in her. I try hard to 'listen' and know my part. I'm not perfect at it, but I'm improving and life has become so much better.
Our daughter is back home with a 15 month old son. I am loving being a Grandma.
Perhaps your prayer should be "Dear Lord, Help me to want to forgive him"
And be careful of what you pray, cause there is the delemia I found myself in. I prayed for "a person" who my daughter "loved". I prayed that he become the best possible person he could, that he be happy and make a good life for himself. What I did not pray was that this would all be away from my daughter -- I figured God would understand this. Well, off she went with him - - from Ohio to Vegas. His life improved. My daughter's life went down the toilet. I felt betrayed. I had done the "right thing". I had prayed for him. So I stopped talking to God.
It took time, but once God has you, he never lets you go. God and I now talk again and I have matured in my faith.
The biggest change is I finally, finally gave it all over to God and have tried to stop interfering with His work in her. I try hard to 'listen' and know my part. I'm not perfect at it, but I'm improving and life has become so much better.
Our daughter is back home with a 15 month old son. I am loving being a Grandma.
Forgiveness
Forgiveness is one of the greatest acts of the heart. It is important not so much for the person you are forgiving, but for yourself. When you are hurt by someone, you will continue to hurt unless you get above it and forgive them. This is not an easy lesson to learn, but worth learning nonetheless. When you have learnt it, your perspective of the other person completely changes. And they will stop hurting you, wilfully or not, because you can no longer be hurt by it. There is a lot of sense in forgiveness. It is a lesson in loving yourself.
Forgiveness
The guy is out of the hospital, out of the psych ward, and already drinking again. This guy served 3 years for 13 DUIs, gets out, assaults a juvenile, beats up his girlfriend, gets caught twice again drinking and driving , overdoses because he is supposedly going back to jail. He is drunk again already. He's out, I'm once again turning off the porch light and locking the door because he gets crazier every time. I don't know who pisses me off more. Him or the injustice system, but that's a whole other thread. Either way, he has me furious again and I no longer feel guilt for hoping he is successful at his next attempt. If he showed any attempt of straightening out his life, I might be able to forgive him. Until then, I'll just stay mad that he is taking up precious air.
Forgiveness
Peg wrote: The guy is out of the hospital, out of the psych ward, and already drinking again. This guy served 3 years for 13 DUIs, gets out, assaults a juvenile, beats up his girlfriend, gets caught twice again drinking and driving , overdoses because he is supposedly going back to jail. He is drunk again already. He's out, I'm once again turning off the porch light and locking the door because he gets crazier every time. I don't know who pisses me off more. Him or the injustice system, but that's a whole other thread. Either way, he has me furious again and I no longer feel guilt for hoping he is successful at his next attempt. If he showed any attempt of straightening out his life, I might be able to forgive him. Until then, I'll just stay mad that he is taking up precious air.
The way I see it, forgiving someone doesn't mean we have to approve of their behavior. I think we can forgive and still have just anger over what they did. Forgiving someone doesn't mean we have to make ourselves vulnerable to them. We can forgive someone and still hope they come face to face with their behavior.
We can't forgive someone for what they have done to someone else. When we forgive, it is for something they have done to us personally. It is the process of deciding we won't make them pay the price we think they should pay for whatever they have done to us. We use the power we have to make them pay for what they did to let it go without payment. When we use that power for forgiveness we gain from and grow from the experience.
The way I see it, forgiving someone doesn't mean we have to approve of their behavior. I think we can forgive and still have just anger over what they did. Forgiving someone doesn't mean we have to make ourselves vulnerable to them. We can forgive someone and still hope they come face to face with their behavior.
We can't forgive someone for what they have done to someone else. When we forgive, it is for something they have done to us personally. It is the process of deciding we won't make them pay the price we think they should pay for whatever they have done to us. We use the power we have to make them pay for what they did to let it go without payment. When we use that power for forgiveness we gain from and grow from the experience.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Forgiveness
Peg i love your new siggy. well i am not as nice as Clint...Peg and i have discussed this case. i am not qualified to forgive , i just want people safe from him.
Forgiveness
Peg wrote: Funny this topic should come up right now. I've been torn here lately. I was taught that wishing someone dead was the same as murdering them. Here is my dilemma. As some of you know, months ago an adult hit my 17 year old son in the head with a ball bat. This adult is an alcoholic and drug addict. To me, this does not excuse what he did. The man is now lying in the hospital recovering from a drug overdose. I feel guilty for not caring if he made it or not. I would not wish death on anyone, but I feel bad for thinking if he died, no great loss. While I would like to be able to forgive him, I can't. Not when it comes to one of my kids. How do you forgive something like this?
Peg, I did not know about your son. I hope hes ok. There is forgiveness, and there is quiet acceptance. What is is. No retaliation, or hateful thoughts. An acknowledgement that damaged or dysfunctional humans walk amongst the weak capable of causing great damage. We can only hope that we or our loved ones do not cross paths with them. And that they will either become recovered humans... or that they will slip into oblivion taking their rage, anger, and despair with them ,without hurting anyone else. You dont have to forgive him, and you dont have to feel guilty about it. There isnt any book with instructions on how to deal with these feelings. Your heart will work its way around to where it is comfortably supposed to be. I know this because I just know you are a good person. Kind, intelligent and always able to make peace with yourself.
Peg, I did not know about your son. I hope hes ok. There is forgiveness, and there is quiet acceptance. What is is. No retaliation, or hateful thoughts. An acknowledgement that damaged or dysfunctional humans walk amongst the weak capable of causing great damage. We can only hope that we or our loved ones do not cross paths with them. And that they will either become recovered humans... or that they will slip into oblivion taking their rage, anger, and despair with them ,without hurting anyone else. You dont have to forgive him, and you dont have to feel guilty about it. There isnt any book with instructions on how to deal with these feelings. Your heart will work its way around to where it is comfortably supposed to be. I know this because I just know you are a good person. Kind, intelligent and always able to make peace with yourself.
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Forgiveness
We can only hope that we or our loved ones do not cross paths with them
Too late. Our paths HAVE crossed. I'll never forget the day my son called me just a few minutes after he got off the school bus. The phone was breaking up. I understood "Wayne, hit me, ball bat". I went running up the road. I'm glad the guy left. I'd probably be sitting in prison while he roams free. When I saw my son with a huge goose egg on his forehead, and scratches down his face, I don't know if fear for him or anger for the guy was the biggest emotion. He saw my son tonight and asked, "Are we cool?" This is how it started that day. My son said, "I knew dad was still home so I thought why lie. I told my friend, get down to my house run in and get my dad if he starts." My son told him, "No, we are not cool". The guy walked away this time. Will he the next time? Why should I live in fear for my son's safety? Why should I be put in that position? The man is a menace to society. I realize there is prison overcrowding, but do you think the prosecutor or judge would worry about that if it were their son? My need for revenge is gone. The man will eventually do hisself in. I just hope to God he doesn't take anyone else with him when he does. As far as forgiveness, I'm thinking that isn't going to happen in this lifetime.
Too late. Our paths HAVE crossed. I'll never forget the day my son called me just a few minutes after he got off the school bus. The phone was breaking up. I understood "Wayne, hit me, ball bat". I went running up the road. I'm glad the guy left. I'd probably be sitting in prison while he roams free. When I saw my son with a huge goose egg on his forehead, and scratches down his face, I don't know if fear for him or anger for the guy was the biggest emotion. He saw my son tonight and asked, "Are we cool?" This is how it started that day. My son said, "I knew dad was still home so I thought why lie. I told my friend, get down to my house run in and get my dad if he starts." My son told him, "No, we are not cool". The guy walked away this time. Will he the next time? Why should I live in fear for my son's safety? Why should I be put in that position? The man is a menace to society. I realize there is prison overcrowding, but do you think the prosecutor or judge would worry about that if it were their son? My need for revenge is gone. The man will eventually do hisself in. I just hope to God he doesn't take anyone else with him when he does. As far as forgiveness, I'm thinking that isn't going to happen in this lifetime.
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nvalleyvee
- Posts: 5191
- Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:57 am
Forgiveness
Valerie100 wrote: Does anybody know what the Bible has to say about forgiveness when it comes to a person or people who don't necessarily want you to or care if you forgive them? Is there anything in the Good Book about forgiving somebody who could care less about your forgiveness and will continue to hurt you anyway? I guess you're supposed to just remain calm and strong and turn the other check. How do you forgive someone who doesn't want to be forgiven, and what do Jesus and/or the disciples have to say about that?
I think the "turn the other cheek" saying in a family is only a means to cover up some major indiscresions..(mostly abuse). I believe YOU are the person who has forgiven things (repeatedly) - and I really admire you for getting some distance - you have had many troubled times in your family and yet you are the person who still tries to heal the family...probably 13 times a day!!!
I think the "turn the other cheek" saying in a family is only a means to cover up some major indiscresions..(mostly abuse). I believe YOU are the person who has forgiven things (repeatedly) - and I really admire you for getting some distance - you have had many troubled times in your family and yet you are the person who still tries to heal the family...probably 13 times a day!!!
The growth of knowledge depends entirely on disagreement..........Karl R. Popper
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Valerie100
- Posts: 419
- Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 6:31 am
Forgiveness
No, my family wasn't abusive. That's not even an issue for me.
I am repeatedly having to deal with abuse on-the-job, in one form or another -- mostly psychological, where I'm at now. They're some really horrible people I'm working with now. If they can strip you of your self-confidence and dignity and respect, they'll do it. They live to put people down to make themselves feel better about who they are. I find myself eating a lot of stuff with this job, because I don't want to create a scene, blow a gasket and end up losing my job. It's a terrible catch 22. I need to find a new job, actually, away from that abusive environment -- if there is actually a nonabusive workplace anymore.
I am repeatedly having to deal with abuse on-the-job, in one form or another -- mostly psychological, where I'm at now. They're some really horrible people I'm working with now. If they can strip you of your self-confidence and dignity and respect, they'll do it. They live to put people down to make themselves feel better about who they are. I find myself eating a lot of stuff with this job, because I don't want to create a scene, blow a gasket and end up losing my job. It's a terrible catch 22. I need to find a new job, actually, away from that abusive environment -- if there is actually a nonabusive workplace anymore.