How Do You Feel About Abortion?

Post by **jones jones** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:12 am

Many religious people believe that terminating a pregnancy is tantamount to murder and that a foetus is a living person from the moment of it's conception.

I guess until such time as science can prove without doubt exactly when the life force (soul) enters a foetus, there will be a debate about it.

Personally I believe that the decision to abort a foetus must be made by the parents.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 10:14 am

I think you are taking too narrow a view, myself. Many people feel like that, not simply religious people.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 10:34 am

jones jones;1374536 wrote: Many religious people believe that terminating a pregnancy is tantamount to murder and that a foetus is a living person from the moment of it's conception.

I guess until such time as science can prove without doubt exactly when the life force (soul) enters a foetus, there will be a debate about it.

Personally I believe that the decision to abort a foetus must be made by the parents.I know you'd mentioned your preference to not "engage with me" so I thought it would be appropriate to inform you just how much I expect no response by your part, rather contributing to the thread.

Having said that, there's probably 10 other threads pertaining to this very same subject and it might be worth mentioning some people feel a bit annoyed by having to reiterate their positions over and over and over and over again so I thought it would be appropriate to inform you just how much I expect no response by the part of quite alot of other people...

Having said that, I might ask anyone willing to oblige another member, if they might find it acceptable for a next-door neighbor to walk opposite side of the observers house to then instruct the adjacent neighbor to birth their child or they will imprison them for say 7-10 years in their basement or conversely if the neighbor instructed said pregnant neighbor to kill their unborn child lest they be imprisoned for 7-10 years in their basement...

Anyone want to raise their hand letting us know who would agree with this?

Post by **Chloe_88** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:02 pm

jones jones;1374536 wrote: Many religious people believe that terminating a pregnancy is tantamount to murder and that a foetus is a living person from the moment of it's conception.

I guess until such time as science can prove without doubt exactly when the life force (soul) enters a foetus, there will be a debate about it.

Personally I believe that the decision to abort a foetus must be made by the parents.

I don't believe in abortion except: when a woman was raped or the circumstances of raising a child arn't OK. Example: you're health is really bad or you're at a certain age that you couldn't take care of a child (too old or young).

When I say I don't believe in abortion: I hate when woman get pregnant every time they have intercourse and then have an abortion each time. In these circumstances they should be taught about anticonception (instead of letting them have an abortion each time).

theia · Post by **theia** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:40 pm

I don't know the circumstances behind every abortion so I don't feel I'm in a position to judge it as wrong. I would imagine that the decision to abort is an incredibly difficult decision to make.

Post by **Chloe_88** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:46 pm

theia;1374563 wrote: I don't know the circumstances behind every abortion so I don't feel I'm in a position to judge it as wrong. I would imagine that the decision to abort is an incredibly difficult decision to make.

I do agree with you, of course I don't know the circumstances behind every abortion either and Yes it should be a difficult decision to make. But you do get people who have serveral abortions because they didn't use anticonception. Instead of aborting each time, teach those people how to use anticonception.

The other side would be (in the local newspaper a few months ago): a woman who had 14 children, all different fathers, living of the state not working and then complaining about the state and everyone else. They should also be taught about anticonception.

Post by **jones jones** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:09 pm

K.Snyder;1374544 wrote: I know you'd mentioned your preference to not "engage with me" so I thought it would be appropriate to inform you just how much I expect no response by your part, rather contributing to the thread.

Having said that, there's probably 10 other threads pertaining to this very same subject and it might be worth mentioning some people feel a bit annoyed by having to reiterate their positions over and over and over and over again so I thought it would be appropriate to inform you just how much I expect no response by the part of quite alot of other people...

Having said that, I might ask anyone willing to oblige another member, if they might find it acceptable for a next-door neighbor to walk opposite side of the observers house to then instruct the adjacent neighbor to birth their child or they will imprison them for say 7-10 years in their basement or conversely if the neighbor instructed said pregnant neighbor to kill their unborn child lest they be imprisoned for 7-10 years in their basement...

Anyone want to raise their hand letting us know who would agree with this?

I have a suggestion for you Kev.

Next time you want to ... " inform me just how much I expect no response by the part of quite alot of other people ..." ... why not send me a PM with the gist of what you want to say. Then I will try my best to put your thoughts into plain English

so that not only I, but other people can understand what it is you wish to say.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:11 pm

I feel it should remain the choice of each and every woman.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:12 pm

jones jones;1374588 wrote: I have a suggestion for you Kev.

Next time you want to ... " inform me just how much I expect no response by the part of quite alot of other people ..." ... why not send me a PM with the gist of what you want to say. Then I will try my best to put your thoughts into plain English so that not only I, but other people can understand what it is you wish to say.

:wah:

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:13 pm

I, personally, do not believe that abortion is the solution to an unwanted pregnancy.

Fortunately, being a +60, male, it's not a decision I will ever have to make for myself.

I do NOT believe that the state, or anyone else, should have a say in whether any woman should, or should not abort a pregnancy.

That pretty well sums up my views.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:50 pm

jones jones;1374588 wrote: I have a suggestion for you Kev.

Next time you want to ... " inform me just how much I expect no response by the part of quite alot of other people ..." ... why not send me a PM with the gist of what you want to say. Then I will try my best to put your thoughts into plain English

so that not only I, but other people can understand what it is you wish to say.SnoozeAgain;1374590 wrote: :wah:Try reading it again, it might help

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:04 pm

We shouldn't have to translate gibberish into English.

koan · Post by **koan** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 10:01 pm

That decision should be made by the parents, jj? Only one parent gets to decide.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:30 am

SnoozeAgain;1374609 wrote: We shouldn't have to translate gibberish into English.If you weren't so sour and on the verge of spitting fire you wouldn't see gibberish

I'll say it again,..

Try reading it again, it might help

Adstar · Post by **Adstar** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:41 am

jones jones;1374536 wrote: Many religious people believe that terminating a pregnancy is tantamount to murder and that a foetus is a living person from the moment of it's conception.

I guess until such time as science can prove without doubt exactly when the life force (soul) enters a foetus, there will be a debate about it.

Personally I believe that the decision to abort a foetus must be made by the parents.

So what you are saying in this post is that You don't know. You must wait untill "science" proves it either way. But you then go on and support parents choice without being sure wether it is murder or not...

I believe abortion is murder. Even worse than that, murder of the innocent. Even science shows that when the egg and the sperm unite and the chromosomes become aligned a new genetically unique human life has started. Who has the right to prevent a new human being the chance of experiencing a full life?

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:41 am

And now a message from God...

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:43 am

Ahso!;1374644 wrote: And now a message from God...Oops, a little late with that.

Adstar · Post by **Adstar** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:50 am

The strange thing about this thread is that not many people. Even the thread opener has answered the question.

How do you feel about Abortion?

The answer "i think the woman should be free to decide" is not telling anyone what one feels about abortion. Saying you support a woman’s choice tells no one what You feel about abortion at all.

So do you think that abortion is good or bad? What do you really think about abortion?

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:53 am

Adstar;1374643 wrote: So what you are saying in this post is that You don't know. You must wait untill "science" proves it either way. But you then go on and support parents choice without being sure wether it is murder or not...

I believe abortion is murder. Even worse than that, murder of the innocent. Even science shows that when the egg and the sperm unite and the chromosomes become aligned a new genetically unique human life has started. Who has the right to prevent a new human being the chance of experiencing a full life?

All Praise The Ancient Of Days...

Can we get some facts in here before everyone starts writing shakespeare?

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:54 am

Adstar;1374650 wrote: The strange thing about this thread is that not many people. Even the thread opener has answered the question.

How do you feel about Abortion?

The answer "i think the woman should be free to decide" is not telling anyone what one feels about abortion. Saying you support a woman’s choice tells no one what You feel about abortion at all.

So do you think that abortion is good or bad? What do you really think about abortion?

All Praise The Ancient Of DaysI'm going to collect this one for evidence

Adstar · Post by **Adstar** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:56 am

Evidence for what exactly?

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:00 am

Adstar;1374653 wrote: Evidence for what exactly?

All Praise The Ancient Of DaysOh sorry...

This...K.Snyder;1374544 wrote: Having said that, there's probably 10 other threads pertaining to this very same subject and it might be worth mentioning some people feel a bit annoyed by having to reiterate their positions over and over and over and over again so I thought it would be appropriate to inform you just how much I expect no response by the part of quite alot of other people...Hopefully you can do better with "I thought it would be appropriate to inform you just how much I expect no response by the part of quite alot of other people" than some

:yh_bigsmi

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:01 am

Adstar;1374650 wrote: The strange thing about this thread is that not many people. Even the thread opener has answered the question.

How do you feel about Abortion?

The answer "i think the woman should be free to decide" is not telling anyone what one feels about abortion. Saying you support a woman’s choice tells no one what You feel about abortion at all.

So do you think that abortion is good or bad? What do you really think about abortion?

All Praise The Ancient Of DaysWhat good is the evolution of the brain and development of cognition if not to buffer feelings? I personally think it's good that members have steered clear of the emotional component regarding this subject. Looks as though we're building a worthwhile discussion group.

Adstar · Post by **Adstar** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:08 am

K.Snyder;1374655 wrote: Oh sorry...

This...Hopefully you can do better with "I thought it would be appropriate to inform you just how much I expect no response by the part of quite alot of other people" than some

:yh_bigsmi

Oh so that reply was to the Opening poster but you quoted me. ok

Well since i am new to these forums this is the first "abortion" thread i have seen and therefore this is my first reply to the issue.

I guess if another one comes up again soon i may not bother replying. No one forces people to reply to threads. People are free to ignore what they will to ignore.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Adstar · Post by **Adstar** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:11 am

Ahso!;1374656 wrote: What good is the evolution of the brain and development of cognition if not to buffer feelings?

If one believes in evolution, one must believe that human feelings are one of the essential elements that are part of that evolution. If they where not essential then we supposedly would have bread them out of existence eons ago.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:13 am

Adstar;1374660 wrote: Oh so that reply was to the Opening poster but you quoted me. ok

Well since i am new to these forums this is the first "abortion" thread i have seen and therefore this is my first reply to the issue.

I guess if another one comes up again soon i may not bother replying. No one forces people to reply to threads. People are free to ignore what they will to ignore.

All Praise The Ancient Of DaysI wouldn't blame you Adstar I blame those that create threads while having the exact same threads sitting in the back alley pub getting mothballed to Christendom...

If you don't mind my suggesting you entering a thread pertaining to abortion that already exists and no doubt you will find what you're looking for...I'd go further to include you'll find the best results in those with more well thought out responses

Post by **jones jones** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:16 am

koan;1374618 wrote: That decision should be made by the parents, jj? Only one parent gets to decide.

You are the voice of reason Ms Koan. I approached the thread assuming that the parents would collaborate before making such a decision. As a man I obviously tend to see things from a male perspective. It is after all the female who carries and nurtures the foetus until full term or otherwise. That being so it is the mother of the unborn earthling who surely must have the final say in terms of whether or not she wishes to give birth to he/she.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:18 am

K.Snyder;1374637 wrote: If you weren't so sour and on the verge of spitting fire you wouldn't see gibberish

I'll say it again,..

Try reading it again, it might help

Well done, Mr Snyder. When you respond in a fit of pique, you're a lot more coherent than when you're trying to sound intelligent and end up torturing the English language.

Sorry for going off topic Jones Jones.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:19 am

Adstar;1374663 wrote: If one believes in evolution, one must believe that human feelings are one of the essential elements that are part of that evolution. If they where not essential then we supposedly would have bread them out of existence eons ago.

All Praise The Ancient Of DaysI partially agree.

First, one doesn't believe or disbelieve "in" evolution, it's merely a matter of recognizing it. Belief is mythical, recognition is practical. Second, "breeding things out" is a bit of a misunderstanding, but not as bad as I've heard others say. We have no idea what course Natural Selection will take in the future.

Post by **jones jones** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:26 am

Adstar;1374643 wrote: So what you are saying in this post is that You don't know. You must wait untill "science" proves it either way. But you then go on and support parents choice without being sure wether it is murder or not...

I believe abortion is murder. Even worse than that, murder of the innocent. Even science shows that when the egg and the sperm unite and the chromosomes become aligned a new genetically unique human life has started. Who has the right to prevent a new human being the chance of experiencing a full life?

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Well yes, perhaps we do know that when the egg and the cell meet a unique human life has started. However, we do NOT know when the life force (soul) enters such an entity. Okay the foetus moves, it reacts ... but so do the flowers and plants in my garden and I have my doubts as to whether or not they have a "soul."

In any event, I say: "Good on ya mate!" Cos you have the right to express your opinion

without any fear and whilst I might never agree with you, I will defend your right to an opinion.

You take care now & have an awesome Sunday!

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:30 am

jones jones;1374669 wrote: Well yes, perhaps we do know that when the egg and the cell meet a unique human life has started. However, we do NOT know when the life force (soul) enters such an entity. Okay the foetus moves, it reacts ... but so do the flowers and plants in my garden and I have my doubts as to whether or not they have a "soul."

In any event, I say: "Good on ya mate!" Cos you have the right to express your opinion

without any fear and whilst I might never agree with you, I will defend your right to an opinion.

You take care now & have an awesome Sunday!Your first paragraph was well expressed, but what i don't understand is why you then became patronizing and dismissive. If you truly recognize and respect the opinion of others you would continue to have an intelligent adult conversation.

Post by **jones jones** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:58 am

Ahso!;1374670 wrote: Your first paragraph was well expressed, but what i don't understand is why you then became patronizing and dismissive. If you truly recognize and respect the opinion of others you would continue to have an intelligent adult conversation.

Strange ... I didn't see it as dismissive or patronizing.

Well it was because I easily recognised an earthling who would never be swayed from their belief despite anything I could come up with. I much prefer to concentrate my energy on that over which I have even a slight bit of control.

I have seldom backed away from having "an intelligent adult conversation" Ahso. But I much prefer to have such a conversation with an earthling who will perhaps admit when I make a valid point.

Also I get bored very easily, which is not to say that other earthlings here on FG bore me. Okay, I did reply "boring!!!" to one of your replies ... but no, I find it difficult to concentrate all my energy in a war of words with one person for any length of time. My problem entirely.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:01 am

SnoozeAgain;1374666 wrote: Well done, Mr Snyder. When you respond in a fit of pique, you're a lot more coherent than when you're trying to sound intelligent and end up torturing the English language.

Sorry for going off topic Jones Jones.Yes, because lord knows my entire agenda is to sound intelligent.

Did you read it again?

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:04 am

As to abortion I consider it to be up to the woman to decide. In a situation where the father objects the decision is still not his to make. Religion should have no part in the decision except in so far as the individual concerned is religious.

posted by adstar

I believe abortion is murder. Even worse than that, murder of the innocent. Even science shows that when the egg and the sperm unite and the chromosomes become aligned a new genetically unique human life has started. Who has the right to prevent a new human being the chance of experiencing a full life?

Do you also then believe that stopping the egg and sperm unite is also a form of murder in that it prevents a new human being having a chance of experiencing a full life? How do you feel about being told you cannot control when you become pregnant.

That is the position of the catholic church and the reason they ban the use of the contraceptive pill and also condoms (I think, might be wrong there about condoms) it is also the logic being used by some fundamentalist Christians to ban legal abortions and incidentally the use of the contraceptive pill by passing bills defining "personhood" as being at the point of conception, effectively that would ban the morning after pill amongst other things, so even someone who is raped would not have that option offered to them.

How do you feel about the religious deciding on whether you use birth control or not?

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:23 pm

If you don't agree with abortion

Dont have one

simple really .

MilkMoon · Post by **MilkMoon** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:54 pm

I completely agree with you. The decision should rest with the parents, not with anyone else who will not have to live through the consequences.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:56 pm

what consequences?

MilkMoon · Post by **MilkMoon** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:01 pm

fuzzywuzzy;1374767 wrote: what consequences?

The consequences of raising a child. The consequences of having a child they cannot afford, or maybe even feed. The consequences of the mother birthing the child (if it is endangering her health, etc). And of course, most importantly, the consequences of a mother birthing a child that was the product of a rape.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:05 pm

ahh I read that as 'abortion had consequences'.

littleCJelkton · Post by **littleCJelkton** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:11 am

I think that Abortion is one of multiple choices that are needed to be made by a couple as a consequence of getting pregnant which is a consequence of choosing to have sex. So if the couple is mature, and informed enough to make good choices about sex then they should be have the right to make the decision of what to do that happens as a consequence to that.

Where there is an issue, I believe is what knowledge and experience is needed to make good choices about sex, and how do you go about making sure those who are going to be put in situations where they need to make decisions about sex have the knowledge and experience needed to make good responsible choices so that they are better prepared for the consequences of their actions.

Of course in the cases of Rape and Child/mother health the consequences are not as controlled, but those are not the cases in which I believe cause the polarized controversey that I find surrounds this issue, it is the cases in which the couples make bad choices when it comes making decisions about sex, and are not ready to take on the consequences of their decisions that heat this debate.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:15 am

littleCJelkton;1374791 wrote: it is the cases in which the couples make bad choices when it comes making decisions about sex, and are not ready to take on the consequences of their decisions that heat this debate.I've personally known women to have been in a relationship for quite some time only for their boyfriends to leave them after finding out they're pregnant.

Child day care is incredibly expensive for newborns and still very pricy for older toddlers...

Then we get single mothers living on welfare trapped in the slums with absolutely no way out...

Good decisions regarding sex is an absolute remedy...How do we go about getting this point across to both parents as opposed to only the mother?

Adstar · Post by **Adstar** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:07 am

jones jones;1374669 wrote: Well yes, perhaps we do know that when the egg and the cell meet a unique human life has started. However, we do NOT know when the life force (soul) enters such an entity. Okay the foetus moves, it reacts ... but so do the flowers and plants in my garden and I have my doubts as to whether or not they have a "soul."

In any event, I say: "Good on ya mate!" Cos you have the right to express your opinion

without any fear and whilst I might never agree with you, I will defend your right to an opinion.

You take care now & have an awesome Sunday!

"However, we do NOT know when the life force (soul) enters such an entity."

Interesting. So you believe the soul/life force as you call it exists separate from the body but then "enters" it at a certain stage of development?

All Praise The Ancient of Days

Adstar · Post by **Adstar** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:26 am

gmc;1374692 wrote: A

posted by adstar

Do you also then believe that stopping the egg and sperm unite is also a form of murder in that it prevents a new human being having a chance of experiencing a full life?

No. The egg is not a human life and the sperm is not a human life.

How do you feel about being told you cannot control when you become pregnant.

I would not agree with anyone who told me that. People can control when they become pregnant. I have nothing against birth control as long as the method used does not do damage to the reproductive ability of the person involved.

That is the position of the catholic church and the reason they ban the use of the contraceptive pill and also condoms (I think, might be wrong there about condoms)

Well since i am not a catholic what they teach means as much to my faith as what islam or hunduism teaches.

it is also the logic being used by some fundamentalist Christians to ban legal abortions and incidentally the use of the contraceptive pill by passing bills defining "personhood" as being at the point of conception, effectively that would ban the morning after pill amongst other things, so even someone who is raped would not have that option offered to them.

The morning after pill does Not prevent a woman becoming pregnant. Once the Egg unites with the sperm inside a woman then she is pregnant. So it is an abortion pill, it is not a method of stopping the Egg from uniting with a Sperm.

How do you feel about the religious deciding on whether you use birth control or not?

Well the religious don't decide do they.

It is the government authorities that make something legal or illegal. Different groups can advocate for what they believe is right. As for me i do not engage in politics and as far as my faith is concerned what the authorities decide is their business.

I as a Christian give Warning. People who are open to the warning by their own free will shall not pursue an abortion. People who disagree will pay it no regard to the warning. As far as my conscience to God is concerned i have done my duty by giving a warning. From that moment of what people do or what people support is their responsibility.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:03 am

Adstar;1374913 wrote: I as a Christian give Warning. People who are open to the warning by their own free will shall not pursue an abortion. People who disagree will pay it no regard to the warning. As far as my conscience to God is concerned i have done my duty by giving a warning. From that moment of what people do or what people support is their responsibility.

All Praise The Ancient Of DaysThat warning is advocating illegal abortion which effects the public. Law is influenced by the unrest of the people. Let's not pretend going around preaching something doesn't effect the public, especially by claiming an act of "God" and then running off...

And this issue always seems to be spearheaded by arguing the substantive aspect of law, which is not the real issue, but ignoring the fact that it's the process of procederal law that is the fundamental problem with making abortion illegal.

No one with any rational brain is suggesting that they themselves would go around willy nilly killing off a fetus. It's implementing a law that has absolutely no black and white definition that would ultimately serve to make matters worse while people playing the religious "trump" card looks upon the issue with such a narrow mind that people get rather tired when attempting to explain their position, again while being met with "because God said so" and scurrying off

Enough is enough with this "morally superior" garbage because the word "exception" seems to be defined by the religious as being a one step approach to hop scotch

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:07 am

posted by adstar

I would not agree with anyone who told me that. People can control when they become pregnant. I have nothing against birth control as long as the method used does not do damage to the reproductive ability of the person involved.

posted by adstar

The morning after pill does Not prevent a woman becoming pregnant. Once the Egg unites with the sperm inside a woman then she is pregnant. So it is an abortion pill, it is not a method of stopping the Egg from uniting with a Sperm.

Make up your mind. You either think no one should be able to dictate when someone becomes pregnant or you do not. If the morning after pill, for instance,is banned because some people think it is an abortion pill that is exactly what you are doing

posted by adstar

Well since i am not a catholic what they teach means as much to my faith as what islam or hunduism teaches.

I don't really care what religion you are, Would you vote for a politician whose faith means he would ignore the wishes of his constituents and obey their religious leader and impose that belief on you? If i said an islamic fundamentalist who wanted to impose sharia law I suspect you would object - how about a catholic who wants to ban contraception altogether or a Christian fundamentalist who believes life begins at conception and would ban the day after pill? Because that is exactly the kind of issue that is at stake. The free availability of contraceptives has been achieved in the teeth of ferocious opposition from religious groups of all kinds.

Post by **jones jones** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:18 am

Adstar;1374912 wrote: "However, we do NOT know when the life force (soul) enters such an entity."

Interesting. So you believe the soul/life force as you call it exists separate from the body but then "enters" it at a certain stage of development?

All Praise The Ancient of Days

I most certainly do ... after all I believe in reincarnation.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:52 am

At 41, after spotting every day for 5 weeks, I went to the doctor and discovered I was pregnant.

I had previously enjoyed two completely uneventful pregnancies.

I have always been and still am pro choice.

The doctor asked what I wanted to do and I told him that if I could carry it, if it wasn't suffering and had a shot at a full healthy life - I was going to have to go for it.

I spent much of the next 7+ months in bed with my feet up and my body shutting down while piling on the pounds. I went into it at a size 6 and came out a 16. Can vaguely remember my shape, but I surely haven't seen it in a mirror since. My organs started shutting down and I had to have an emergency C-Section.

She's a beautiful, almost 13 year old, straight A student, with more personality behind that shyness than I could ever lay claim to. She loves me.

I made the right choice.

But it wasn't for any one of you, to tell me what my choice needed to be. It came from within myself. I don't know that I could have risked that some choice if my other two were not grown and no longer in need of me.

littleCJelkton · Post by **littleCJelkton** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:59 pm

As I said, it is the cases where the couple are having sex because in their mind people have sex because it feels good and they neglect the notion that there is any way to have a kid through sex, and when the female gets pregnant neither individual is ready for that responsibility and as Mr. Snyder pointed out too often the male leaves the female with double the responsibility because the relationship was entirely physical and the couple had made little effort to make platonic connections.

It is the cases in which the couple makes decisions about their relationship that based on poor knowledge about relationships and sex, that result in pregnancy that the couple isn't ready to handle that are the cases that spark this debate. I believe that how you feel about abortion ultimately boils down to how you feel about sexual, and relationship education when should an individual be knowledgeable about sex, relationships pregnancy, and too what extent to we go. Do we just Teach what is in P.E class ,or the birds and bees story? If so how do you answer a 12-14 year old kids question that is thus;"why people produce and purchase porn?", or "why some people engage in anal intercourse?". I believe we must figure out how to educate people correctly about sex before we can correctly face any of the consequences of people having sex.

littleCJelkton · Post by **littleCJelkton** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:06 pm

jones jones;1374930 wrote: I most certainly do ... after all I believe in reincarnation.

Yup energy is never lost only tranferred, the energy that makes the molecular bonds between the Carbon, Oxygen, Hydrogen etc.., in me may have been used in solar flare 100,000 light years away or to make an apple in an apple tree 30 years ago. 100 years from now part of the energy that is in me could work with other energy in process to allow FSL travel.

Hope6 · Post by **Hope6** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:30 pm

Okay I'll probably make some folks mad with my opinion...but its my opinion and I have a right to it.

I believe life begins at conception. Anything done to the baby after that I believe is murder. If the people having an abortion and the doctors who give them can live with that then that is, as the old saying goes, between them and there God. And before people start saying what about cases of rape....tell me where that is that babys fault...same goes for being to young...if you feel like you can't care for the child, give it up for adoption. I was 42 when I found out I was pregnant, the doctors starts asking. do you want this test or that, I told him no I don't want any. He said well if you don't plan to act on the results then theres no need to take the test.