Rapture, Second Coming and the Resurrections.

Adstar · Post by **Adstar** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:29 am

Hello all

I thought i would do a right up on the Rapture it's timing and the 2 reasurrections revealed in the Bible.

The Day of the Lord is the Day of the Messiah's Second Coming. Jesus describes what will happen on that day. I will bold the words i wish you to take close note of.

Matthew 24

27For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

So After the tribulation Jesus will return and gather the elect to Him.

There is another Rapture verse spoken of by Jesus that links the Day of the Lord to the Rapture.

Luke 17

29but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed. 31" In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back. 32Remember Lot's wife. 33Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. 35Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. 36Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left."

When will the Son of Man (Messiah Jesus) be revealed? At His second coming the Day of the Lord. Who will take the sleeping man and the woman grinding and the man working in the field? The angels sent out in Matthew 24 verse 21

It is also nice to note that Jesus revealed that this will be a world wide event because at the time of His return it will be day on one half of the world "In that day" and it will be night on the other half of the world "in that night"

Also this will be an event that will take place in a twinkling of an eye Paul reveals the rapture and its timing at the Last trumpet this scripture is probably the best rapture supporting scripture in the bible:

1 Corrinthians15:

49And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.

Here Paul is saying that as we inhabit earthly bodies derived from dust so shall we inhabit new bodies changed and not made of dust. Paul goes on to explain why:

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

So the bodies that we inhabit cannot enter the Kingdom of God and also "corruption" dead bodies must also be changed also. Then Paul reveals a mystery:

51Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

So Paul is saying that "we shall not all sleep" now I hope everyone can agree that he is talking about physical death here? Paul is saying not everyone will experience physical death. He goes on to say that "we shall all be changed" both the dead and the living "in a moment", now at this point it could be argued that both the dead and the living could be changed in a moment in time, but at different times. That is to say the moment is only referring to the time it takes to change, not at the same moment. But we read on and Paul states the moment will be. "in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet." So not only shall both the living and the dead be changed to inherit the Kingdom of God But they will both change at the same moment, at the last trumpet. As He goes on to say "For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." Paul goes on to explain it in more detail:

53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory.

So here again we see Paul referring to the two states of being that the saints will be in at the time of the 1st Resurrection/Rapture "So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality," Dead saints and living saints caught up together in a twinkling of an eye at the last trumpet.

So from what we have read the first resurrection and the rapture (although different experiences for them that take part) will happen at the same instant in time at the last trumpet.

So now we go on to the next scripture this is the last trumpet revealed in the book of Revelation:

Revelation10

7but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.

Now the sounding of the seventh Angel is the last of a series of seven trumpets in revelation. Note that the scripture says the "Mystery of God would be finished" now the coming of the Messiah has been described by scripture at a coming in the sky (a darkened sky) and all people will see Him. Now after this event there will be on ifs or buts about the Mystery of God because all will see that God is and who He is. Everyone will know from that moment on, there will be no Mystery left. As for the darkening of the sky this is described as happening beforehand on the sounding of the forth trumpet:

Revelation 8

12 Then the fourth angel sounded: And a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them were darkened. A third of the day did not shine, and likewise the night.

Now This brings up the belief in two resurrections. The resurrection of the saints that happens at the second coming and the resurrection of the rest of mankind at the end of the 1000 years of the rule of the Messiah Jesus and the saints. The Book of Revelation chapter 20 clearly states that their will be two distinct resurrections one at the return of the Messiah Jesus and another at the end of the 1000 year reign of the Messiah Jesus:

Revelation 20

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

satanic Rebellion Crushed

Revelation 20

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

The Great White Throne Judgment

Revelation 20

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books

All praise The Ancient Of Days

Post by **jones jones** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:19 am

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Sometimes I so wish I wasn't such a supporter of the right to ALL earthlings to free speech!!!!!!! :-5

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:06 pm

why are christians so obsessed with dying? If you actually did all the things jesus told you to do then the earth would have no need for a rapture.

Adstar · Post by **Adstar** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:27 am

fuzzywuzzy;1372227 wrote: why are christians so obsessed with dying? If you actually did all the things jesus told you to do then the earth would have no need for a rapture.

This does not make sense to me. What has the rapture got to do with following the teachings of Jesus? The rapture is not needed because people don't follow the teachings of Jesus. And again in the rapture those who are alive will also be caught up to meet the coming Messiah. So what has this to do with a death obsession?

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Post by **jones jones** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:19 am

Spot, please check if this is Mickeil in another guise. I should hate be be the only FG member under suspicion! :-3

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:20 pm

of course it doesn't make sense to you .

location Australia ...MY ARSE!!!

It could be JJ. My ex has 8 different servers and many proxy's . it's an easy thing to do .

Adstar · Post by **Adstar** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:08 am

I find this funny. You seem to doubt my location? Is it something about Australia? Or what? Please explain, you have got me curious.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:01 am

I'm reading Rapture in Death by J D Robb at the moment.

Just started it, so don't see a connection yet, but I'll keep you all posted.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:09 pm

I just want to know the location of a real Australian who says "All praise the ancient of days " Everywhere I know where someone would say that would get you beaten to a pulp or at least very strange looks.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:04 am

fuzzywuzzy;1372378 wrote: I just want to know the location of a real Australian who says "All praise the ancient of days " Everywhere I know where someone would say that would get you beaten to a pulp or at least very strange looks.

What about "May the Force be With You" Would that get you beaten up by rthe fundamentalist trekkies?

apropos of nothing

The KLF - Justified And Ancient - YouTube

Adstar · Post by **Adstar** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:18 am

fuzzywuzzy;1372378 wrote: I just want to know the location of a real Australian who says "All praise the ancient of days " Everywhere I know where someone would say that would get you beaten to a pulp or at least very strange looks.

Well i live in N.S.W in the hunter valley it is about an hour and a half drive from Sydney. I must say i do not run down the street calling it out. But i wonder why anyone would beat me to a pulp in Australia for saying it. Yes they would mock me as they ridicule and denigrate most Christians. Australians on the whole are a an anti religious people because of early negative experiences with the church of state. My family history is basically irish so i know where the anti church of England establishment, them and us type of mentality comes from. It has morphed today into an anti all Christian mentality, As if Christians are somehow still the elite, We never where. Our prime minister today is an atheist anyway.

So yeah ridicule, mockery and denigration is normal run of the mill stuff for Christians in Australia. But getting bashed? Well maybe that’s the next step.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Adstar · Post by **Adstar** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:30 am

gmc;1372445 wrote:

The KLF - Justified And Ancient - YouTube

Well their Ancient but they are sure not justified. And they are filled with anger cause they know their time is short. I have a better version of that video that was giving out a plain message along with a subliminal message.

Have a look at this video far better than yours:

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:27 am

Adstar;1372449 wrote: Well their Ancient but they are sure not justified. And they are filled with anger cause they know their time is short. I have a better version of that video that was giving out a plain message along with a subliminal message.

Have a look at this video far better than yours:

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I went for the sound quality.

Being irish you will know this little christian ditty well.:sneaky:

Wolfetones - The Sash - YouTube

Where would the world be without religion to fight over.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:24 pm

Australians on the whole are a an anti religious people because of early negative experiences with the church of state. My family history is basically irish so i know where the anti church of England establishment, them and us type of mentality comes from. It has morphed today into an anti all Christian mentality, As if Christians are somehow still the elite, We never where.

What in gods name are you talking about? church of state? Anti church of england establishment? christians being elite? that's not a very Australian thing to say, that's not something anyone bleats out ..

.

And mockery has never been the run of the mill in Australia toward Christians .....other religions yes but not christian. .And the fact that you say you're of irish decent (which again has never been an issue here) and you're Australian and yet you didn't pick up on a turn of phrase? You actually think you'd be beaten to a pulp??? And you think you need to tell me where the Hunter valley is .....everyone in AUS knows where the Hunter valley is . That's a very strange thing to say .

I also think you have a 'victim complex'. Most christians do .

Adn everyone knows our PM is an athiest ...and nobody cares . why do you feel you have to inform me about our own PM? Most people are more insulted she's a wranger.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:33 pm

And they are filled with anger cause they know their time is short.

See? again with the death theme.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:48 pm

posted by adstar

This does not make sense to me. What has the rapture got to do with following the teachings of Jesus? The rapture is not needed because people don't follow the teachings of Jesus. And again in the rapture those who are alive will also be caught up to meet the coming Messiah. So what has this to do with a death obsession?

That has me confused. Are you saying if you believe in the rapture you are not a christian because of you don;t folow his teachings - well I rather thought you had to to be a "proper" christian.

Adstar · Post by **Adstar** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:35 am

gmc

Being irish you will know this little christian ditty well.

Wolfetones - The Sash - YouTube

Where would the world be without religion to fight over.

Well that was the first time i have heard that song. I am not a catholic by the way. I am a bible believing Christian. I believe in non-resistance. So i am an extreme pacifist if you like.

II Corinthians 10:3,4

"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds."

Ephesians 6:12

"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places."

So i take no part in wars.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Adstar · Post by **Adstar** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:50 am

fuzzywuzzy;1372462 wrote: What in gods name are you talking about? church of state? Anti church of england establishment? christians being elite? that's not a very Australian thing to say, that's not something anyone bleats out ..

Not any more. I was talking about the genesis of the anti- religious bent of the majority of Australians not that they are current causes.

And mockery has never been the run of the mill in Australia toward Christians .....other religions yes but not christian.

Your kidding. Of course the majority of Australians mock Christians. What country do you live in???

.And the fact that you say you're of irish decent (which again has never been an issue here)

It was a big issue in the early days of Australia. The irish where second clas citizens kept out of a lot of positions because the establishment was C of E.

and you're Australian and yet you didn't pick up on a turn of phrase? You actually think you'd be beaten to a pulp???

Beaten to a pulp means getting bashed in Australia.

And you think you need to tell me where the Hunter valley is ....

I was not stating where i live to tell you where the hunter valley is. I was stating where i live to show that i live in Australia.

.everyone in AUS knows where the Hunter valley is . That's a very strange thing to say .

I find your reasoning strange.

I also think you have a 'victim complex'. Most christians do .

Well just look at the posts on this board. Mockery denigration and accusatory. Thats persecution. So yeah we are persecuted.

Adn everyone knows our PM is an athiest ...and nobody cares . why do you feel you have to inform me about our own PM? Most people are more insulted she's a wranger.

To show that Australia is not a Christian dominated nation.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Adstar · Post by **Adstar** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:53 am

gmc;1372504 wrote: posted by adstar

That has me confused. Are you saying if you believe in the rapture you are not a christian because of you don;t folow his teachings - well I rather thought you had to to be a "proper" christian.

I seems to me you cannot understand my posts at all. Oh well, such is life.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:38 am

Adstar;1372513 wrote: Well that was the first time i have heard that song. I am not a catholic by the way. I am a bible believing Christian. I believe in non-resistance. So i am an extreme pacifist if you like.

II Corinthians 10:3,4

"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds."

Ephesians 6:12

"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places."

So i take no part in wars.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

In that case it rather lays to rest your claim to be irish. On the other hand you're not a catholic but a bible believing Christian suggests you do seem to share some elements of the religious bigotry between catholic and protestant which makes it even less likely you are Irish since I would expect a protestant irishman to be familiar with that particular ditty.

posted by adstar

I seems to me you cannot understand my posts at all. Oh well, such is life.

If I could understand the nonsense that is the rapture and it made any sense I would be as nutty as those that actually believe in it.

Adstar · Post by **Adstar** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:57 am

Never ceases to amaze me how some people cannot read what i clearly right.

gmc;1372587 wrote: In that case it rather lays to rest your claim to be irish.

I said i was Australian. Never said i was Irish, I have irish catholic heritage. My dad and mother come from catholic families. I however read the bible and believed it over the traditions that my parents, especially my dad.

On the other hand you're not a catholic but a bible believing Christian suggests you do seem to share some elements of the religious bigotry between catholic and protestant

Well if it helps you i also don't belong to a protestant church either. Most protestants accept the catholic churches doctrine of justifiable war so while they did break away from the catholic church they did hold onto a lot of the false traditions of the catholic church. I stand for the Bible and against doctrines that run counter to the teachings of Jesus, catholic, protestant or eastern orthodox. I do hate their false teachings but i do not hate them.

which makes it even less likely you are Irish since I would expect a protestant irishman to be familiar with that particular ditty.

Once again i have told you i am Australian born and my parents are both Australian born. But we have Irish catholic heritage. I was an altar boy for 10 years and no i was not molested, my catholic priest was a nice man. The only catholic religious i ever had a hard time with where 2 particular nuns at my primary school, real hardcore disciplinarians them too.

If I could understand the nonsense that is the rapture and it made any sense I would be as nutty as those that actually believe in it.

It's not hard to understand. You don't believe, i understand that. But it is easy to understand belief or disbelief.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days