Budget Overview | The White House
Let me try to get this right. The terminology is a bit obfusticated.
The debt is how much is owed, how much has been borrowed, how much attracts interest payments? If you have a credit card, it's the balance you've not paid off?
And the deficit is how much you fall short of balancing the books for the year? It's how much you increase the debt by? If you have a credit card, it's how much the outstanding balance goes up by because you've paid off less than you've used the card since the last payment?
And this freaky budget is intended to bring the deficit down from 11% of US GDP at the moment to 3% of GDP in maybe 5 years time?
In other words, the balance on the credit card is getting worse by 11% of your turnover - for every thousand bucks you earn you go an extra hundred bucks into debt - and you're hoping to reach a point in five years time when for every thousand bucks you earn you only go an extra thirty bucks into debt?
That's a budget??
You do know you pay interest on the whole outstanding debt, don't you? And if the balance was cleared each year then all that interest payment could go on, I don't know, holidays or cleaning the streets or something. But you spend it on servicing the debt instead.
Does anyone have the slightest desire to clear the debt itself? or even to stop adding to it?
The US Budget 2012 proposal
The US Budget 2012 proposal
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The US Budget 2012 proposal
Nope, and don't mess with my Social Security I'm retiring soon. :wah:
ALOHA!!
MOTTO TO LIVE BY:
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, champagne in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming.
WOO HOO!!, what a ride!!!"
MOTTO TO LIVE BY:
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, champagne in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming.
WOO HOO!!, what a ride!!!"
The US Budget 2012 proposal
CARLA;1353705 wrote: Nope, and don't mess with my Social Security I'm retiring soon. :wah:
They'll be selling you as bonemeal if this carries on.
They'll be selling you as bonemeal if this carries on.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The US Budget 2012 proposal
Does anyone have the slightest desire to clear the debt itself? or even to stop adding to it?
Are you kidding? That would mean the gravy train leaves the tracks Spot. As long as our politicians can pad their pockets it's not stopping. Oh and of the country does fall to pieces they just take their money and head to Rio or the French Riviera.
Are you kidding? That would mean the gravy train leaves the tracks Spot. As long as our politicians can pad their pockets it's not stopping. Oh and of the country does fall to pieces they just take their money and head to Rio or the French Riviera.
The US Budget 2012 proposal
They'll be selling you as bonemeal if this carries on.
Soylent Green!!!:sneaky:
Soylent Green!!!:sneaky:
The US Budget 2012 proposal
Out of interest, did the recent face-off end with agreeing the debt would be reduced at any stage in the future? I blinked so I'm not sure what the conclusion was.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The US Budget 2012 proposal
spot;1364885 wrote: Out of interest, did the recent face-off end with agreeing the debt would be reduced at any stage in the future? I blinked so I'm not sure what the conclusion was.
Nope, it's set to run again next year, more to the point the nutters won a victory. That's why they lost the AAA rating, it's no longer a politically stable nation - at least in the eyes of the world. The status if the dollar as the worlds trading country is about to change as well. Don't worry about the US economy it's going to take a least as long to recover the economy as it took to wreck it and we are in a fairly parlous state for many of the same reasons. Our major trading partner is europe and the new markets are India, china russia and brazil they are more important now than the US is likely to be in the near future. The US has bigger problems than the war on terrorism.
BBC News - Bric nations become increasingly interdependent
Nope, it's set to run again next year, more to the point the nutters won a victory. That's why they lost the AAA rating, it's no longer a politically stable nation - at least in the eyes of the world. The status if the dollar as the worlds trading country is about to change as well. Don't worry about the US economy it's going to take a least as long to recover the economy as it took to wreck it and we are in a fairly parlous state for many of the same reasons. Our major trading partner is europe and the new markets are India, china russia and brazil they are more important now than the US is likely to be in the near future. The US has bigger problems than the war on terrorism.
BBC News - Bric nations become increasingly interdependent
The US Budget 2012 proposal
Let's look at another analogy.
You have $200,000.00 from an inheritance and decide to purchase a home worth $200,000.00. Should you pay cash for the home or finance it (thus putting yourself in debt) and invest your money?
You have $200,000.00 from an inheritance and decide to purchase a home worth $200,000.00. Should you pay cash for the home or finance it (thus putting yourself in debt) and invest your money?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
The US Budget 2012 proposal
Ahso!;1364902 wrote: Let's look at another analogy.
You have $200,000.00 from an inheritance and decide to purchase a home worth $200,000.00. Should you pay cash for the home or finance it (thus putting yourself in debt) and invest your money?
The reason you pay cash for your home is to avoid the temptation to spend the released liquid cash from a mortgage on unrealizable assets rather than on investments. Like, in the US's case, a bloody great pointless military which shows no profit or benefit whatever, and reducing taxation on those parts of society earning the big bucks. You might call those "investments" but I don't see any justification.
The general answer is yes, if you can invest at a return higher than the running cost of the mortgage, by all means mortgage. If you end up with no return on the liquid cash then you've screwed yourself. If you end up without even your liquid capital because you spent it on unnecessary avoidable luxuries with no resale value then you're a fool.
You have $200,000.00 from an inheritance and decide to purchase a home worth $200,000.00. Should you pay cash for the home or finance it (thus putting yourself in debt) and invest your money?
The reason you pay cash for your home is to avoid the temptation to spend the released liquid cash from a mortgage on unrealizable assets rather than on investments. Like, in the US's case, a bloody great pointless military which shows no profit or benefit whatever, and reducing taxation on those parts of society earning the big bucks. You might call those "investments" but I don't see any justification.
The general answer is yes, if you can invest at a return higher than the running cost of the mortgage, by all means mortgage. If you end up with no return on the liquid cash then you've screwed yourself. If you end up without even your liquid capital because you spent it on unnecessary avoidable luxuries with no resale value then you're a fool.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The US Budget 2012 proposal
spot;1353704 wrote: Budget Overview | The White House
Let me try to get this right. The terminology is a bit obfusticated.
The debt is how much is owed, how much has been borrowed, how much attracts interest payments? If you have a credit card, it's the balance you've not paid off?
And the deficit is how much you fall short of balancing the books for the year? It's how much you increase the debt by? If you have a credit card, it's how much the outstanding balance goes up by because you've paid off less than you've used the card since the last payment?
And this freaky budget is intended to bring the deficit down from 11% of US GDP at the moment to 3% of GDP in maybe 5 years time?
In other words, the balance on the credit card is getting worse by 11% of your turnover - for every thousand bucks you earn you go an extra hundred bucks into debt - and you're hoping to reach a point in five years time when for every thousand bucks you earn you only go an extra thirty bucks into debt?
That's a budget??
You do know you pay interest on the whole outstanding debt, don't you? And if the balance was cleared each year then all that interest payment could go on, I don't know, holidays or cleaning the streets or something. But you spend it on servicing the debt instead.
Does anyone have the slightest desire to clear the debt itself? or even to stop adding to it?There's a problem, I think, in using the credit card analogy when talking about a nation's economy. The credit card analogy was invented by simple-minded far right pseudo-economists. It's difficult to say what drives these people, so I'll not go there.
Credit card debt is usually debt which holds little if any value over the long term as opposed to investing which is what our national debt is derived from. The debt is investments in our people, infrastructure, government, businesses and so forth. That's a far cry from credit card type debt like purchasing furniture for the house and clothing, or whatever.
So let's try to avoid walking into the trap of wacko bloggers and avoid talking in terms of credit cards.
Let me try to get this right. The terminology is a bit obfusticated.
The debt is how much is owed, how much has been borrowed, how much attracts interest payments? If you have a credit card, it's the balance you've not paid off?
And the deficit is how much you fall short of balancing the books for the year? It's how much you increase the debt by? If you have a credit card, it's how much the outstanding balance goes up by because you've paid off less than you've used the card since the last payment?
And this freaky budget is intended to bring the deficit down from 11% of US GDP at the moment to 3% of GDP in maybe 5 years time?
In other words, the balance on the credit card is getting worse by 11% of your turnover - for every thousand bucks you earn you go an extra hundred bucks into debt - and you're hoping to reach a point in five years time when for every thousand bucks you earn you only go an extra thirty bucks into debt?
That's a budget??
You do know you pay interest on the whole outstanding debt, don't you? And if the balance was cleared each year then all that interest payment could go on, I don't know, holidays or cleaning the streets or something. But you spend it on servicing the debt instead.
Does anyone have the slightest desire to clear the debt itself? or even to stop adding to it?There's a problem, I think, in using the credit card analogy when talking about a nation's economy. The credit card analogy was invented by simple-minded far right pseudo-economists. It's difficult to say what drives these people, so I'll not go there.
Credit card debt is usually debt which holds little if any value over the long term as opposed to investing which is what our national debt is derived from. The debt is investments in our people, infrastructure, government, businesses and so forth. That's a far cry from credit card type debt like purchasing furniture for the house and clothing, or whatever.
So let's try to avoid walking into the trap of wacko bloggers and avoid talking in terms of credit cards.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
The US Budget 2012 proposal
Could we stop pretending that the current $12 trillion debt has gone into anything other than year after year buying toys for the US military (like aircraft carriers, for example, or ground-attack planes, which have sod-all defensive purpose whatever) and reducing the tax burden of wealthy Americans? Which is, regardless of your blinkers, exactly what fools use credit cards for.
There's a simple test. Add up the cost of the military adventurism and the reduced taxation since, say, Reagan took office, and see if it comes to $12 trillion or not. All of that productivity could have been directed to capital projects instead. You might, for example, not be suffering water shortages over so much of the country and uncontrolled floods elsewhere. Your power distribution system wouldn't be so third-world.
And add in foreign aid while you're at it. Turn off that tap too, it's killing people just as surely as your drone pilots.
There's a simple test. Add up the cost of the military adventurism and the reduced taxation since, say, Reagan took office, and see if it comes to $12 trillion or not. All of that productivity could have been directed to capital projects instead. You might, for example, not be suffering water shortages over so much of the country and uncontrolled floods elsewhere. Your power distribution system wouldn't be so third-world.
And add in foreign aid while you're at it. Turn off that tap too, it's killing people just as surely as your drone pilots.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The US Budget 2012 proposal
I have similar issues with where the money gets invested. You're correct about the military and the wealthy. Also, generally speaking, we do need to get spending under control and right now the two areas you've mentioned, along with foreign aid which bring no return should be addressed, IMO.
These days it's difficult to find many outside the patriotic right justifying our military expenditures and excursions.
These days it's difficult to find many outside the patriotic right justifying our military expenditures and excursions.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
The US Budget 2012 proposal
Ahso!;1364909 wrote: These days it's difficult to find many outside the patriotic right justifying our military expenditures and excursions.
You can only say that if you include President Obama among your patriotic right. Which, to be fair, I would.
You can only say that if you include President Obama among your patriotic right. Which, to be fair, I would.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The US Budget 2012 proposal
spot;1364911 wrote: You can only say that if you include President Obama among your patriotic right. Which, to be fair, I would.I agree! But to be fair, at least in my opinion, it's the office which is patriotic, not necessarily it's occupant. The president is, after all, Commander-n-Chief of the armed forces.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
The US Budget 2012 proposal
Ahso!;1364917 wrote: I agree! But to be fair, at least in my opinion, it's the office which is patriotic, not necessarily it's occupant. The president is, after all, Commander-n-Chief of the armed forces.
Gerald Ford managed to say no to the Pentagon. Several hundred times. Without, from what I understand of the exchange, a single yes. The consequence was that he succeeded in shutting down a war. It involves redefining patriotism, that's all.
Gerald Ford managed to say no to the Pentagon. Several hundred times. Without, from what I understand of the exchange, a single yes. The consequence was that he succeeded in shutting down a war. It involves redefining patriotism, that's all.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The US Budget 2012 proposal
That'll happen eventually, but probably not in our lifetime, nor that of our children's. It's a different world today, a lot has happened since the 70s.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
The US Budget 2012 proposal
The world can't wait that long. The only practical alternative to waiting is to reduce the USA to penury, rather as the USA did to the Soviets. They survived it.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The US Budget 2012 proposal
What I see occurring is a rise in indifference among those coming behind me, not that it's a large enough swell yet, but it's there, and I believe indifference is the only way for change to occur. Fighting has only made the situation worse. I hearing a lot less of "God Bless America" these days, thankfully.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
The US Budget 2012 proposal
Nah i think you are going to have to get angry. Change for the better has only ever come when the liberals start getting really annoyed and kick the **** out of the right wingers in your country. Secularists need to stop being so tolerant and reasonable and humouring the village idiot and tell the fundamentalists they are stone age morons and you're fed up with them trying to run the place.