The dow

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:47 am

Should we expect a record loss today? The current record in points is -777.68 on 9/29/2008, a 6.98% drop. As I type this the Dow is down in the range of 315 points or around 2.75%.

Anyone care to 'hedge' a bet?

Care to keep track?

http://www.google.com/search?client=ubu ... 8&oe=utf-8

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:20 am

There will be no major disaster in the near future. They'll just keep BSing and playing on peoples hopes and dreams. There is an ominous rumbling in the distance though. All bets are off for me.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:30 am

In most cases a downturn in the Dow is hardly a disaster though many media outlets enjoy painting it that way. The stock market simply reflects financial trends. It is true however that with so many people owning retirement products like 401Ks, IRAs, Keoghs and the like that this sort of roller coaster ride in finances does test peoples emotional stature. My son's 401K was down $4,000.00. last time he looked.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:15 am

I anticipate the DOW finishing this week in the 10,500 range and further declines in home values in coming months.:-3

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:48 am

Add to that an increase in prices for food, gas and all the basics of life. It's not going to get easier.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:22 am

Lon;1364362 wrote: I anticipate the DOW finishing this week in the 10,500 range and further declines in home values in coming months.:-3That may prove to be modest and perhaps hopeful in the minds of our politicians. It will be interesting to see how they behave after their break.

S&P's downgrade may actually be what Washington needed to cause them to behave like legislators, not that that's a good thing.

The housing thing is a nightmare that is going to continue to wreck havoc on the economy as long as mortgage default swaps are part of the picture, IMO.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:29 am

Scrat;1364365 wrote: Add to that an increase in prices for food, gas and all the basics of life. It's not going to get easier.No it isn't for most people. Those concerns causes one to debate how useful a Futures Market actually is because that's what drives some of the increases you mentioned. The increases in those areas are due to investor's outlook on the future.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:41 am

Ahso!;1364374 wrote: No it isn't for most people. Those concerns causes one to debate how useful a Futures Market actually is because that's what drives some of the increases you mentioned. The increases in those areas are due to investor's outlook on the future.

If you are into stocks------------it's a great time to go SHORT

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:49 am

It's 1:45 and the Dow is now down more than 400 points. It's doubtful, with the uncertainty of the Asian markets that there will be much good happening for the remainder of the day.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:03 am

Anyone seeing any kind of good news that may spark a rally?

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:04 am

Lon;1364375 wrote: If you are into stocks------------it's a great time to go SHORTCould be, Lon.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:19 am

Well this isn't helpful at all. WASHINGTON -- Standard & Poor's Ratings Services on Monday downgraded the credit ratings of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and other agencies linked to long-term U.S. debt.

The agency also lowered the ratings for: farm lenders; long-term U.S. government-backed debt issued by 32 banks and credit unions; and three major clearinghouses, which are used to execute trades of stocks, bonds and options.
S&P Downgrades Debt-Linked Agencies, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac

Not that Freddie and Fanny will have that much of an impact at this point because they've been taking a beating for some time now. The other stuff is negative news however, IMO.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:34 am

Approaching -500 points, Lon.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:14 pm

The Footsie is down to 5,100 tonight having started last week around 5,900.

The ECB announcement of yesterday held prices up for at least an hour before the market decided it was not enough.

Today S&P are saying there's a 1:3 chance of a further downgrade of America's rating further destabilising the market.

Hang on for a rough ride

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:27 pm

Anyone seeing any kind of good news that may spark a rally?

Obama made a big speech about Afghanistan and said we will persist and persevere in our war on terror???

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:39 pm

Scrat;1364387 wrote: Obama made a big speech about Afghanistan and said we will persist and persevere in our war on terror???My guess is that's good news for the defense industry but not so good for the deficit since we aren't paying for these wars.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:39 pm

Scrat;1364387 wrote: Obama made a big speech about Afghanistan and said we will persist and persevere in our war on terror???

More likely to have an effect than his saying that "This is the United States of America and we are and always will be a triple A country".

The markets will believe the source with a proven track record of being right, in this case S&P, rather than an appeal aimed at the patriotic masses.

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:21 pm

Well Ahso, -634 points. Not far off, good call.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:08 am

Frankly, it's scary how fast things are moving, whichever side of the Pond you live on. I had a very low opinion of the the George Bush junior administration, but the idea that the USA was so fragile that within five years of his departing the USA would have its credit rating down to AA+ and be lectured by China on cutting its military to reduce its debt didn't enter my darkest dreams.

I imagine this is another nail in the coffin of the Euro?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:47 am

Clodhopper;1364459 wrote: Frankly, it's scary how fast things are moving, whichever side of the Pond you live on. I had a very low opinion of the the George Bush junior administration, but the idea that the USA was so fragile that within five years of his departing the USA would have its credit rating down to AA+ and be lectured by China on cutting its military to reduce its debt didn't enter my darkest dreams.

I imagine this is another nail in the coffin of the Euro?
Isn't that similar to what happened to the British Empire?

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:54 am

Accountable;1364493 wrote: Isn't that similar to what happened to the British Empire?

What, being lectured by America before they bailed us out of our war debt?

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:08 pm

dow up 429

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:28 pm

Bryn Mawr;1364497 wrote: What, being lectured by America before they bailed us out of our war debt?
... tied to reducing your empire. I'm getting a headache, the memory's so foggy. So I could easily be wrong.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:35 pm

Accountable;1364527 wrote: ... tied to reducing your empire. I'm getting a headache, the memory's so foggy. So I could easily be wrong.

Don't worry, the British Government is still being lectured about no longer having an empire - but mostly by the British people nowadays.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:04 pm

flopstock;1364523 wrote: dow up 429Lots of confidence building today. The fed promised to continue low interest rates for at least two more years, which may spur home and automobile purchasing here, and the ECB bought up a bunch of Italy's and Spain's Government bonds to help try and stabilize that situation, which most analysts insist is the main reason for the recent market volatility. The fact that U.S. Treasury Bonds remain strong means they're most likely correct. Besides, most of these analysts are very good at what they do.

The question is for how long the ECB can sustain Italy and Spain. Germany is becoming more reluctant each day to continue shoveling money in that direction. But what else can they do? Germany may end up owning most of Europe after all now that they no longer want it. :wah:

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:12 pm

Bryn Mawr;1364529 wrote: Don't worry, the British Government is still being lectured about no longer having an empire - but mostly by the British people nowadays.
:D Whew! That's a relief.

But seriously, I remember reading somewhere that part of the reason the UK isn't as big a military power as it once was is because the US (I think) insisted that they draw down. The article was trying to draw a parallel with our current situation with China.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:33 pm

Accountable;1364548 wrote:

Whew! That's a relief.

But seriously, I remember reading somewhere that part of the reason the UK isn't as big a military power as it once was is because the US (I think) insisted that they draw down. The article was trying to draw a parallel with our current situation with China.

We started to loose it after the first world war but by the time the second world war ended we were bankrupt and had no appetite for any more adventures abroad. India, the Jewel in the Crown, was kicking off over independence and that dratted nuisance Ghandi wouldn't stand up and fight to give us an excuse to kill him.

You and the French wouldn't support our stance in Palestine and the damn'd Jewish settlers there were getting uppity. The British public were fed up with rationing and wanted the government to concentrate on sorting out the problems at home - what was an Empire to do?

The final straw came with the Suez crisis and there we did get our wrists slapped (mostly by you cursed Yanks) after which we mostly forgot about being world leaders but that was a decade later.

ETA How do you write curse-ed as opposed to cursed - totally different meaning but, as far as I can see, same spelling.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:05 pm

chuckle. Y'know , it's what I think has held Britain and North America together (I include Canada in this, also the Commonwealth) is that no matter how incompetent, there was always a feeling that the partner was doing their best against the enemy. There has not always been that feeling with other allies.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:47 am

The Dow is looking rather ominous thus far today.

Problems with France's banks.

However, today, US banks, insurers and airlines are getting hit pretty hard and I suspect that's due to Fridays downgrade. Tech stock have been taking a beating too.

I wonder if the Republican picks to this deficit Committee is having an impact (Reid announced his choices yesterday without much in the way of making a difference in the Dow, though Reid's choices are very moderate). I wouldn't be surprised if the republican picks are proving negative because all six members have signed Grover Norquist's pledge to never raise taxes in any way, shape or form. If there's one thing that is abundantly clear from what S&P's said, it's that revenue must be part of the solution. Ya gotta wonder why Boehner and McConnell don't seem to get it. Perhaps they just don't care.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:57 am

I always think, 'Well the DOW doesn't really affect me personally."

Then I think, "Wait, yes it does!"

Then I think, "Damn."

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:08 pm

Saint_;1364689 wrote: I always think, 'Well the DOW doesn't really affect me personally."

Then I think, "Wait, yes it does!"

Then I think, "Damn."It sure does. Have any retirement accounts? Planning on purchasing a home or auto?

The way I see it is Americans (and probably the rest of the world for that matter) had better get used to the fact that investing is rapidly becoming about the only source of income and begin to tune in. So I figure: why not start talking about finance and money and stocks so people become less intimidated by the process. It's not as scary as many think.

Damn, down 375 points. I had hoped it would come back. My USAA Science and Technology Fund is suffering and it shouldn't be.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:55 pm

down over 540

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:56 pm

We're all doomed! DOOMED I TELL YOU!!!!

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:59 pm

Just heard a guy on the radio:

"I buy when everyone is scared and I'm scared when everyone is buying."

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:07 pm

YZGI;1364706 wrote: Just heard a guy on the radio:

"I buy when everyone is scared and I'm scared when everyone is buying."Now is probably a good time to buy, which is what I'm doing.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:08 pm

Saint_;1364703 wrote: We're all doomed! DOOMED I TELL YOU!!!!Not quite!

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:30 pm

Saint_;1364703 wrote: We're all doomed! DOOMED I TELL YOU!!!!

:yh_rotfl

I did not know you saw Dad's Army on US television

:yh_rotfl

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:36 pm

After making up all of its losses, another tough day (-450 points as of this posting). Europe has got American investors spooked.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:16 am

Will the markets have a recovery today? i hope so, we could definitely use one.

Will the FED or government step in with some sort of stimulus? I think investors are looking for a little reassurance from somebody.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:57 am

I think the trick right now is to keep plowing the money into it without looking at what's happening to us. ya know, if it's down invest, if it's up lay back

I'm never sure though.... I just figure I will die at my desk. I'm not meant to be able to retire - ever...lol

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:40 pm

flopstock;1366659 wrote: I think the trick right now is to keep plowing the money into it without looking at what's happening to us. ya know, if it's down invest, if it's up lay back

I'm never sure though.... I just figure I will die at my desk. I'm not meant to be able to retire - ever...lolThe "without looking" is definitely a wise decision, though it's a good idea to do research on where the money's being plowed into.

The current problem though is that even though the American economy has been on solid footing now for more than a year (slow but solid) you wouldn't know that listening to the main media or candidates running for political office. This recovery is still fragile enough to be tanked unless confidence is built up via those two outlets. And if it dives, it's going to dive hard, fast and long. So maybe remaining clear of the market is the thing to do.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:52 pm

I'd say it may be safe to expect some slightly positive steadying until Friday's fed announcement unless something really terrible happens between now and then.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:20 am

Ahso!;1366707 wrote: The current problem though is that even though the American economy has been on solid footing now for more than a year (slow but solid) you wouldn't know that listening to the main media or candidates running for political office. This recovery is still fragile enough to be tanked unless confidence is built up via those two outlets. An article I read earlier.

Rather than an economic recession, we seem to be experiencing a confidence recession. The market clearly believes that the return of business and consumer confidence to historical lows will inevitably lead to an economic recession -- no matter what the data says.

A Recession of Confidence: Opinion - TheStreet

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:30 pm

This, hopefully, won't put tomorrow in the can.

Ratings agency Moody's Investor Service said Wednesday that it has cut Japan's rating to Aa3 from Aa2 with a stable outlook. Moody's cuts Japan's rating to Aa3 from Aa2 - MarketWatch