The ringleader of the US military guards who photographed their abuse of suspected Iraqi insurgents at Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison has been released. Charles Graner served more than six-and-a-half years of a 10-year sentence, army officials said.
Graner, a former US Army Reserve specialist, was convicted of leading his six-member team in the sexual humiliation of naked prisoners. Images of the acts emerged in 2004, sparking international outrage. He said he was breaking down prisoners for interrogation on the orders of military intelligence officers.
BBC News - US frees Abu Ghraib abuse ringleader Charles Graner
I've several times expressed my sympathy toward Lynndie England for her scapegoating, Charles Graner deserves no less. He's not the chap who should have been prosecuted, he was a reservist selected for his bigoted capacity to bully prisoners, misinformed as to his responsibilities and acting under instruction.
"Graner said the actions were part of a plan directed by military intelligence officers to soften up prisoners for interrogation", I find that completely convincing. How come the command chain was kept out of the dock? Prosecuting the pawns is an abuse of the justice system.
I understand most of the photos are still unpublished. Eventually they'll be released for publication. It should happen now, while those responsible can still be officially castigated. Publish the photos.
Charles Graner leaves jail
Charles Graner leaves jail
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Charles Graner leaves jail
spot;1364207 wrote: Charles Graner served more than six-and-a-half years of a 10-year sentence, army officials said.
Justice is served.
He's not the chap who should have been prosecuted, he was a reservist selected for his bigoted capacity to bully prisoners, misinformed as to his responsibilities and acting under instruction.
You might not know this, Spot, but since the Mai Lai massacre, all American service personnel have had the option of not obeying illegal, unlawful, or immoral orders.
How come the command chain was kept out of the dock?
Ummm...because they are the Chain of Command?
Prosecuting the pawns is an abuse of the justice system.
True, true. But then, the world's not fair is it?:yh_whistl
Justice is served.
He's not the chap who should have been prosecuted, he was a reservist selected for his bigoted capacity to bully prisoners, misinformed as to his responsibilities and acting under instruction.
You might not know this, Spot, but since the Mai Lai massacre, all American service personnel have had the option of not obeying illegal, unlawful, or immoral orders.
How come the command chain was kept out of the dock?
Ummm...because they are the Chain of Command?
Prosecuting the pawns is an abuse of the justice system.
True, true. But then, the world's not fair is it?:yh_whistl
Charles Graner leaves jail
The more cynically you present your country right or wrong, the more your torturers-by-proxy will continue to flout civilized norms. Charles Graner obviously, wrongly, believed his orders were legal. Where were the advisers to tell him he was mistaken? Why were the military intelligence officers who directed his actions not prosecuted? Why are they still immune from prosecution?
The option of not obeying illegal, unlawful, or immoral orders wasn't something new since Mai Lai, it was an incumbent obligation since before World War Two. That's what the Nuremberg judgements said anyhow. Lieutenant Calley was equally a fall-guy for superior officers who egged him into thinking he was doing what was required of him. They weren't prosecuted either.
The option of not obeying illegal, unlawful, or immoral orders wasn't something new since Mai Lai, it was an incumbent obligation since before World War Two. That's what the Nuremberg judgements said anyhow. Lieutenant Calley was equally a fall-guy for superior officers who egged him into thinking he was doing what was required of him. They weren't prosecuted either.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Charles Graner leaves jail
spot;1364236 wrote: The more cynically you present your country right or wrong, the more your torturers-by-proxy will continue to flout civilized norms.
No...that kind of thing only happens when the republicans are in power.
Charles Graner obviously, wrongly, believed his orders were legal.
If that's true, and I don't believe it for a minute, then he was either completely amoral or a moron.
Where were the advisers to tell him he was mistaken? Why were the military intelligence officers who directed his actions not prosecuted? Why are they still immune from prosecution?
They are immune because we have far greater problems to deal with right now. We've moved on.
One of the nice things about Freedom of the Press is that after a splashy, public exposure like Abu Graib, evil people think twice or at least go underground for a time.
No...that kind of thing only happens when the republicans are in power.
Charles Graner obviously, wrongly, believed his orders were legal.
If that's true, and I don't believe it for a minute, then he was either completely amoral or a moron.
Where were the advisers to tell him he was mistaken? Why were the military intelligence officers who directed his actions not prosecuted? Why are they still immune from prosecution?
They are immune because we have far greater problems to deal with right now. We've moved on.
One of the nice things about Freedom of the Press is that after a splashy, public exposure like Abu Graib, evil people think twice or at least go underground for a time.
Charles Graner leaves jail
Saint_;1364242 wrote: They are immune because we have far greater problems to deal with right now. We've moved on.You may live in the United States of Amnesia but I don't.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Charles Graner leaves jail
spot;1364252 wrote: You may live in the United States of Amnesia but I don't.
Good one, but honestly Spot, you know as well as I that these kinds of scandals are as old as mankind. Your own country is just as guilty and just and short of memory:
Altcourse Prison
Group 4 (formerly run by Global Solutions)
November 9, 2010 BBC
A dentist who tricked the NHS out of more than £300,000 by claiming twice for working in a private jail has been jailed for two and a half years. John Hudson, 58, admitted two counts of dishonestly retaining wrongful credit from the NHS, and was sentenced at Liverpool Crown Court on Tuesday.
October 5, 2010 Liverpool Echo
A PRISON dentist defrauded the NHS of more than £300,000 – and could now face jail himself. John Hudson treated inmates at HMP Altcourse, in Fazakerley, for more than two years. But the 58-year-old, who was paid £130,000 a year by the private jail, wrongfully billed the NHS for the work.
November 5, 2009 Liverpool Echo
PRISONERS in a Liverpool jail are commanding their organised crime empires using mobile phones. A damning report into HMP Altcourse slams the authorities for not investing in jamming technology that would make mobiles obsolete.
March 26, 2006 Wales on Sunday
A WOMAN whose husband threatened to kill her then committed suicide in jail, is fighting his corner for the sake of their young daughter. Vowing to sue the private prison where her mentally ill ex hanged himself
March 23, 2006 BBC
An inquest has heard of concerns of a prison officer and a cellmate for the mental health of a remand prisoner, who was later found hanged in his cell.
September 2, 2005 BBC
An investigation is under way following the death of a remand prisoner in a hospital, the Prison Service has said.
August 16, 2005 Daily Post
PRIVATELY-RUN Altcourse Prison has been named the most overcrowded in the country with figures showing that last month it held 50% more inmates than it was designed to hold.
July 13, 2005 BBC
An inquiry has been launched after two men were found hanged in their cells at a prison in Liverpool.
Ashfield Prison
Serco (formerly known as Premier)
August 20, 2009 Public Finance
Children detained in prisons and young offenders institutions are exposed to such ‘dire conditions’ that they are living in ‘modern day dungeons’, according to a hard-hitting report by the Howard League for Penal Reform. : ‘We keep children smelly and dirty, idle and frightened, bored with education and cooped up in modern-day dungeons. And we expect them miraculously to pupate into responsible citizens.
April 13, 2009 This Is Bristol
The privately-run Ashfield Young Offenders Institution has more attacks than any other prison in the country, according to latest figures.
March 19, 2003
Premier's Ashfield "worst" prison in England and Wales. (News). Plans to extend the role of private providers in prison services suffered a setback this month when a PFI jail for young offenders was described as the worst in the country. An inspection found that conditions at Ashfield, near Bristol, were so bad that many inmates were frightened to leave their cells.
This website, UK Hall of Shame goes on like that for dozens of pages...
UK Hall of Shame
Good one, but honestly Spot, you know as well as I that these kinds of scandals are as old as mankind. Your own country is just as guilty and just and short of memory:
Altcourse Prison
Group 4 (formerly run by Global Solutions)
November 9, 2010 BBC
A dentist who tricked the NHS out of more than £300,000 by claiming twice for working in a private jail has been jailed for two and a half years. John Hudson, 58, admitted two counts of dishonestly retaining wrongful credit from the NHS, and was sentenced at Liverpool Crown Court on Tuesday.
October 5, 2010 Liverpool Echo
A PRISON dentist defrauded the NHS of more than £300,000 – and could now face jail himself. John Hudson treated inmates at HMP Altcourse, in Fazakerley, for more than two years. But the 58-year-old, who was paid £130,000 a year by the private jail, wrongfully billed the NHS for the work.
November 5, 2009 Liverpool Echo
PRISONERS in a Liverpool jail are commanding their organised crime empires using mobile phones. A damning report into HMP Altcourse slams the authorities for not investing in jamming technology that would make mobiles obsolete.
March 26, 2006 Wales on Sunday
A WOMAN whose husband threatened to kill her then committed suicide in jail, is fighting his corner for the sake of their young daughter. Vowing to sue the private prison where her mentally ill ex hanged himself
March 23, 2006 BBC
An inquest has heard of concerns of a prison officer and a cellmate for the mental health of a remand prisoner, who was later found hanged in his cell.
September 2, 2005 BBC
An investigation is under way following the death of a remand prisoner in a hospital, the Prison Service has said.
August 16, 2005 Daily Post
PRIVATELY-RUN Altcourse Prison has been named the most overcrowded in the country with figures showing that last month it held 50% more inmates than it was designed to hold.
July 13, 2005 BBC
An inquiry has been launched after two men were found hanged in their cells at a prison in Liverpool.
Ashfield Prison
Serco (formerly known as Premier)
August 20, 2009 Public Finance
Children detained in prisons and young offenders institutions are exposed to such ‘dire conditions’ that they are living in ‘modern day dungeons’, according to a hard-hitting report by the Howard League for Penal Reform. : ‘We keep children smelly and dirty, idle and frightened, bored with education and cooped up in modern-day dungeons. And we expect them miraculously to pupate into responsible citizens.
April 13, 2009 This Is Bristol
The privately-run Ashfield Young Offenders Institution has more attacks than any other prison in the country, according to latest figures.
March 19, 2003
Premier's Ashfield "worst" prison in England and Wales. (News). Plans to extend the role of private providers in prison services suffered a setback this month when a PFI jail for young offenders was described as the worst in the country. An inspection found that conditions at Ashfield, near Bristol, were so bad that many inmates were frightened to leave their cells.
This website, UK Hall of Shame goes on like that for dozens of pages...
UK Hall of Shame
Charles Graner leaves jail
Saint_;1364264 wrote: Good one, but honestly Spot, you know as well as I that these kinds of scandals are as old as mankind. Your own country is just as guilty and just and short of memory:
Altcourse Prison
Group 4 (formerly run by Global Solutions)
November 9, 2010 BBC
A dentist who tricked the NHS out of more than £300,000 by claiming twice for working in a private jail has been jailed for two and a half years. John Hudson, 58, admitted two counts of dishonestly retaining wrongful credit from the NHS, and was sentenced at Liverpool Crown Court on Tuesday.
October 5, 2010 Liverpool Echo
A PRISON dentist defrauded the NHS of more than £300,000 – and could now face jail himself. John Hudson treated inmates at HMP Altcourse, in Fazakerley, for more than two years. But the 58-year-old, who was paid £130,000 a year by the private jail, wrongfully billed the NHS for the work.
November 5, 2009 Liverpool Echo
PRISONERS in a Liverpool jail are commanding their organised crime empires using mobile phones. A damning report into HMP Altcourse slams the authorities for not investing in jamming technology that would make mobiles obsolete.
March 26, 2006 Wales on Sunday
A WOMAN whose husband threatened to kill her then committed suicide in jail, is fighting his corner for the sake of their young daughter. Vowing to sue the private prison where her mentally ill ex hanged himself
March 23, 2006 BBC
An inquest has heard of concerns of a prison officer and a cellmate for the mental health of a remand prisoner, who was later found hanged in his cell.
September 2, 2005 BBC
An investigation is under way following the death of a remand prisoner in a hospital, the Prison Service has said.
August 16, 2005 Daily Post
PRIVATELY-RUN Altcourse Prison has been named the most overcrowded in the country with figures showing that last month it held 50% more inmates than it was designed to hold.
July 13, 2005 BBC
An inquiry has been launched after two men were found hanged in their cells at a prison in Liverpool.
Ashfield Prison
Serco (formerly known as Premier)
August 20, 2009 Public Finance
Children detained in prisons and young offenders institutions are exposed to such ‘dire conditions’ that they are living in ‘modern day dungeons’, according to a hard-hitting report by the Howard League for Penal Reform. : ‘We keep children smelly and dirty, idle and frightened, bored with education and cooped up in modern-day dungeons. And we expect them miraculously to pupate into responsible citizens.
April 13, 2009 This Is Bristol
The privately-run Ashfield Young Offenders Institution has more attacks than any other prison in the country, according to latest figures.
March 19, 2003
Premier's Ashfield "worst" prison in England and Wales. (News). Plans to extend the role of private providers in prison services suffered a setback this month when a PFI jail for young offenders was described as the worst in the country. An inspection found that conditions at Ashfield, near Bristol, were so bad that many inmates were frightened to leave their cells.
This website, UK Hall of Shame goes on like that for dozens of pages...
UK Hall of Shame
You cannot possibly be suggesting that fraud by an NHS dentist is remotely comparable to institutional torture by an army of occupation.
None of the examples you give are in the same league as the crimes being discussed.
Altcourse Prison
Group 4 (formerly run by Global Solutions)
November 9, 2010 BBC
A dentist who tricked the NHS out of more than £300,000 by claiming twice for working in a private jail has been jailed for two and a half years. John Hudson, 58, admitted two counts of dishonestly retaining wrongful credit from the NHS, and was sentenced at Liverpool Crown Court on Tuesday.
October 5, 2010 Liverpool Echo
A PRISON dentist defrauded the NHS of more than £300,000 – and could now face jail himself. John Hudson treated inmates at HMP Altcourse, in Fazakerley, for more than two years. But the 58-year-old, who was paid £130,000 a year by the private jail, wrongfully billed the NHS for the work.
November 5, 2009 Liverpool Echo
PRISONERS in a Liverpool jail are commanding their organised crime empires using mobile phones. A damning report into HMP Altcourse slams the authorities for not investing in jamming technology that would make mobiles obsolete.
March 26, 2006 Wales on Sunday
A WOMAN whose husband threatened to kill her then committed suicide in jail, is fighting his corner for the sake of their young daughter. Vowing to sue the private prison where her mentally ill ex hanged himself
March 23, 2006 BBC
An inquest has heard of concerns of a prison officer and a cellmate for the mental health of a remand prisoner, who was later found hanged in his cell.
September 2, 2005 BBC
An investigation is under way following the death of a remand prisoner in a hospital, the Prison Service has said.
August 16, 2005 Daily Post
PRIVATELY-RUN Altcourse Prison has been named the most overcrowded in the country with figures showing that last month it held 50% more inmates than it was designed to hold.
July 13, 2005 BBC
An inquiry has been launched after two men were found hanged in their cells at a prison in Liverpool.
Ashfield Prison
Serco (formerly known as Premier)
August 20, 2009 Public Finance
Children detained in prisons and young offenders institutions are exposed to such ‘dire conditions’ that they are living in ‘modern day dungeons’, according to a hard-hitting report by the Howard League for Penal Reform. : ‘We keep children smelly and dirty, idle and frightened, bored with education and cooped up in modern-day dungeons. And we expect them miraculously to pupate into responsible citizens.
April 13, 2009 This Is Bristol
The privately-run Ashfield Young Offenders Institution has more attacks than any other prison in the country, according to latest figures.
March 19, 2003
Premier's Ashfield "worst" prison in England and Wales. (News). Plans to extend the role of private providers in prison services suffered a setback this month when a PFI jail for young offenders was described as the worst in the country. An inspection found that conditions at Ashfield, near Bristol, were so bad that many inmates were frightened to leave their cells.
This website, UK Hall of Shame goes on like that for dozens of pages...
UK Hall of Shame
You cannot possibly be suggesting that fraud by an NHS dentist is remotely comparable to institutional torture by an army of occupation.
None of the examples you give are in the same league as the crimes being discussed.
Charles Graner leaves jail
Bryn Mawr;1364282 wrote: You cannot possibly be suggesting that fraud by an NHS dentist is remotely comparable to institutional torture by an army of occupation.
None of the examples you give are in the same league as the crimes being discussed.
I noticed you ignored the "children in dungeons" quote...
But good ,bad, ugly, my point is that prison abuses are as old as time and as prevalent as people.
None of the examples you give are in the same league as the crimes being discussed.
I noticed you ignored the "children in dungeons" quote...
But good ,bad, ugly, my point is that prison abuses are as old as time and as prevalent as people.
Charles Graner leaves jail
Saint_;1364285 wrote: But good ,bad, ugly, my point is that prison abuses are as old as time and as prevalent as people.That's as may be, though I can make little sense of it other than an attempt to trivialize what is in actual fact a national disgrace of immense and long-lasting proportion.
I understand most of the photos are still unpublished. Eventually they'll be released for publication. It should happen now, while those responsible can still be officially castigated. Publish the photos.
I understand most of the photos are still unpublished. Eventually they'll be released for publication. It should happen now, while those responsible can still be officially castigated. Publish the photos.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Charles Graner leaves jail
Saint_;1364285 wrote: I noticed you ignored the "children in dungeons" quote...
But good ,bad, ugly, my point is that prison abuses are as old as time and as prevalent as people.
I did not ignore it, it was specifically included within :-
None of the examples you give are in the same league as the crimes being discussed.
But good ,bad, ugly, my point is that prison abuses are as old as time and as prevalent as people.
I did not ignore it, it was specifically included within :-
None of the examples you give are in the same league as the crimes being discussed.
Charles Graner leaves jail
But good ,bad, ugly, my point is that prison abuses are as old as time and as prevalent as people.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I was always propagandized that American soldiers were supposed to be of a higher character and caliber?
We all know the truth. With the rape and murder of that young girl and her family in Iraq I decided I won't respect the men in uniform of the US Army. I'm not the only one.