Here we go. FEMA is ready to take a giant step toward the end of religious liberty in America. They are yielding to the short sighted requests by some religious leaders to pay churches for their efforts to help Katrina victims.
Joe Becker, senior vice president for preparedness and response with the Red Cross, said; "I believe it's appropriate for the federal government to assist the faith community because of the scale and scope of the effort and how long it's lasting".
This is a big mistake, no matter what the circumstances. If this does nothing else, it will reduce the willingness of people to give to faith based organizations because they are already being taxed. President Bush is either short sighted or wants to bring faith based organizations under the auspices and control of the government.
Churches will be paid by FEMA
Churches will be paid by FEMA
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Churches will be paid by FEMA
flopstock wrote: just churches clint? what about the salvation army or local school districts, etc...? what about all the non faith based folks, are there plans for them?
It looks like it't a pretty broad brush.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9495550/
It looks like it't a pretty broad brush.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9495550/
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
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Accountable
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Churches will be paid by FEMA
The gov't is not a charity, and should never pay charities. That's my job. If the gov't is using part of my money to give to charities, why should I? Red Cross, Salvation Army, Boy Scouts, and any other charity needs to get their hands out of my pocket! I'll give what I want to whom I want myself.
We've got all this extra money in the federal coffers, I want some of my tax money back!
We've got all this extra money in the federal coffers, I want some of my tax money back!
Churches will be paid by FEMA
Isn't this a conflict with the separation of church and state?
If the federal government is going to pay churches, whose pocket is this money really coming out of? Is this a way to be able to give more and hide it?
When my daughter comes to me for money does it not lessen the family resources but lets it seem like she is getting less -- because she didn't get it all from Dad!
BAD management! BAD governing!!!!!!!!
If the federal government is going to pay churches, whose pocket is this money really coming out of? Is this a way to be able to give more and hide it?
When my daughter comes to me for money does it not lessen the family resources but lets it seem like she is getting less -- because she didn't get it all from Dad!
BAD management! BAD governing!!!!!!!!
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Accountable
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Churches will be paid by FEMA
It's not a conflict, though you can bet your last dollar somebody's going to sue claiming it is. It is bad policy though, imo. The gov't is not supposed to have extra money, I am! Gimme back my money, if there's extra. If you need it at some future time, ask for it then.
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LilacDragon
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Churches will be paid by FEMA
I guess I am not understanding how it is not a conflict. I know I am the new girl on the block and have lots to learn, but if memory serves, churches don't pay taxes. Why are they more deserving then others when we start handing tax dollars out for disaster relief?
The seperation of church and state has been, shall we say, put on the back burner lately. While I don't belong to an organized religious group, I was raised Methodist and I do believe in God. I do have my own mind however, and feel that I don't need someone to tell me how I should feel about such topics as abortion, gay rights, etc. While I don't pray every night, I do have long conversations with the Almighty as I see fit.
I will say that I was offended by MY President telling me that a certain day would be a day of prayer!
The seperation of church and state has been, shall we say, put on the back burner lately. While I don't belong to an organized religious group, I was raised Methodist and I do believe in God. I do have my own mind however, and feel that I don't need someone to tell me how I should feel about such topics as abortion, gay rights, etc. While I don't pray every night, I do have long conversations with the Almighty as I see fit.
I will say that I was offended by MY President telling me that a certain day would be a day of prayer!
Sandi
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Accountable
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Churches will be paid by FEMA
I'm looking at worship being separate from charity.
But don't get me wrong; I don't think any charity should expect money from the gov't. The job of gov't is to protect our freedom and get out of the way. Anything else is intrusive.
But don't get me wrong; I don't think any charity should expect money from the gov't. The job of gov't is to protect our freedom and get out of the way. Anything else is intrusive.
Churches will be paid by FEMA
I pledge allegiance to the Government of the United States of America. And to the Aristocracy for which it stands, One Government, who is God, indivisible, with random searches, roadblocks, and wiretapping for all.
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
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Accountable
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Churches will be paid by FEMA
Jives wrote: I pledge allegiance to the Government of the United States of America. And to the Aristocracy for which it stands, One Government, who is God, indivisible, with random searches, roadblocks, and wiretapping for all.
Hmmm. It's got rhythm, but I'm hoping it's not much to dance to.
Hmmm. It's got rhythm, but I'm hoping it's not much to dance to.
Churches will be paid by FEMA
I don’t have a problem with a President asking people to pray or setting aside a special day for it. He isn’t saying how people should pray…just that he would like for them to pray.
The federal government has stepped way outside its constitutional boundaries. It has no business in the role it has assumed. Personal responsibility is not the government’s responsibility.
When I gave to a religious organization to help with the Katrina disaster I wanted that organization to be able to step up in love and make a difference. If the federal government is now going to take my tax dollars and pay them back…what was the point in my giving in the first place? This all makes our politicians sound so benevolent but it will weaken our response in future disasters.
Federal money is never given without strings attached. I don’t want those strings attached to faith based organizations.
Accountable, I agree with you big time. This is a local issue that should be addressed locally. I too want my money back.
The federal government has stepped way outside its constitutional boundaries. It has no business in the role it has assumed. Personal responsibility is not the government’s responsibility.
When I gave to a religious organization to help with the Katrina disaster I wanted that organization to be able to step up in love and make a difference. If the federal government is now going to take my tax dollars and pay them back…what was the point in my giving in the first place? This all makes our politicians sound so benevolent but it will weaken our response in future disasters.
Federal money is never given without strings attached. I don’t want those strings attached to faith based organizations.
Accountable, I agree with you big time. This is a local issue that should be addressed locally. I too want my money back.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
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LilacDragon
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Churches will be paid by FEMA
Clint wrote: I don’t have a problem with a President asking people to pray or setting aside a special day for it. He isn’t saying how people should pray…just that he would like for them to pray.
The federal government has stepped way outside its constitutional boundaries. It has no business in the role it has assumed. Personal responsibility is not the government’s responsibility.
When I gave to a religious organization to help with the Katrina disaster I wanted that organization to be able to step up in love and make a difference. If the federal government is now going to take my tax dollars and pay them back…what was the point in my giving in the first place? This all makes our politicians sound so benevolent but it will weaken our response in future disasters.
Federal money is never given without strings attached. I don’t want those strings attached to faith based organizations.
Accountable, I agree with you big time. This is a local issue that should be addressed locally. I too want my money back.
While I agree with you in theory - in a country that has decided that it is unconstitutional for the words "In God We Trust" to be printed on it's money, that can't display any type of religious material in any government building, or the saying of the Pledge of Allegiance in it's school - for the President to declare a day of Prayer IS offensive.
The federal government has stepped way outside its constitutional boundaries. It has no business in the role it has assumed. Personal responsibility is not the government’s responsibility.
When I gave to a religious organization to help with the Katrina disaster I wanted that organization to be able to step up in love and make a difference. If the federal government is now going to take my tax dollars and pay them back…what was the point in my giving in the first place? This all makes our politicians sound so benevolent but it will weaken our response in future disasters.
Federal money is never given without strings attached. I don’t want those strings attached to faith based organizations.
Accountable, I agree with you big time. This is a local issue that should be addressed locally. I too want my money back.
While I agree with you in theory - in a country that has decided that it is unconstitutional for the words "In God We Trust" to be printed on it's money, that can't display any type of religious material in any government building, or the saying of the Pledge of Allegiance in it's school - for the President to declare a day of Prayer IS offensive.
Sandi
Churches will be paid by FEMA
LilacDragon wrote: While I agree with you in theory - in a country that has decided that it is unconstitutional for the words "In God We Trust" to be printed on it's money, that can't display any type of religious material in any government building, or the saying of the Pledge of Allegiance in it's school - for the President to declare a day of Prayer IS offensive.
I understand your point but I'm not sure about some of the examples. I didn't know that "In God We Trust" had been ruled unconstitutional or that the Pledge of Allegiance was either. I know there are those who wish it was so but did I miss something?
I understand your point but I'm not sure about some of the examples. I didn't know that "In God We Trust" had been ruled unconstitutional or that the Pledge of Allegiance was either. I know there are those who wish it was so but did I miss something?
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
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Accountable
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Churches will be paid by FEMA
Any law regarding religion in any way is unconstitutional, or do I read my constitution wrong? That means any law permitting, prohibiting, limiting, assisting, or regulating ... or any other verb I haven't covered.
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Accountable
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Churches will be paid by FEMA
The Pledge of Allegience is not a law. Nor, I believe, are the phrases printed on our money - although there may be laws dictating what will be on the bills. :-2
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LilacDragon
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Churches will be paid by FEMA
I didn't say it was a law - it is unconstitutional. The constitution is the guideline for the law - not the law itself.
Sandi
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Accountable
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Churches will be paid by FEMA
I think the only thing we disagree about is whether it's been decided or not.
Churches will be paid by FEMA
LilacDragon wrote: I didn't say it was a law - it is unconstitutional. The constitution is the guideline for the law - not the law itself.
Who decided it was uncostitutional? I wonder if "guideline" isn't understating the role of the constitution. Isn't it actually the standard that the law needs to measure up to?
Who decided it was uncostitutional? I wonder if "guideline" isn't understating the role of the constitution. Isn't it actually the standard that the law needs to measure up to?
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Churches will be paid by FEMA
I believe I mis-spoke when I previously referred to the conflict between church and state.
In our country we hear so much about it, the basic meaning of the debate is obscrued by the polititions and media trying to make their point. I'm afraid I too was just caught up in the rhetoric of words here.
The debate over church/state separation is fundamentally a debate about the meaning of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
Briefly, one side in the debate believes that the Constitution gives government the power to regulate some aspects of religion, and that the First Amendment bars only the establishment of a national church.
The other side in the debate believes that the Constitution gives government no power over religion, and that the First Amendment should be broadly read to ban all types of interference with religion.
Per the above, I surely did not know of that which I thought I was speaking. I'm delighted to be able to read all the views and comments and learn from them. I shall, hopefully, become a much more informed person and will try to speak more from fact than feeling in the future.
In our country we hear so much about it, the basic meaning of the debate is obscrued by the polititions and media trying to make their point. I'm afraid I too was just caught up in the rhetoric of words here.
The debate over church/state separation is fundamentally a debate about the meaning of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
Briefly, one side in the debate believes that the Constitution gives government the power to regulate some aspects of religion, and that the First Amendment bars only the establishment of a national church.
The other side in the debate believes that the Constitution gives government no power over religion, and that the First Amendment should be broadly read to ban all types of interference with religion.
Per the above, I surely did not know of that which I thought I was speaking. I'm delighted to be able to read all the views and comments and learn from them. I shall, hopefully, become a much more informed person and will try to speak more from fact than feeling in the future.
Churches will be paid by FEMA
Wow. Look at that post by sojourner. Very well-written. You are obviously very intelligent Sojourner, and I'm really getting some good vibes about you.
I look forward to perusing your posts and debating your debacles in future threads...
Now....
GET YOURSELF AN AVATAR YOU FACELESS MACHINE-GHOST!!!!!:D
I look forward to perusing your posts and debating your debacles in future threads...
Now....
GET YOURSELF AN AVATAR YOU FACELESS MACHINE-GHOST!!!!!:D
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
Churches will be paid by FEMA
Far Rider wrote: hmmmm...
I have a huge problem with this...
Is this riembursement?, how do they prove what they have given out? Is our government so short sided and supply-less that local churches are better prepared to give out basic supplies than it is? Are we talking about paying churches to manage money for supplies.. sounds like a middle man opportunity for corruption... wheres jimmy swaggert when theres a buck to be had?
This smells pretty stinky... this is more short sided than handing out credit cards...
More proof, that our government is too large, lacks communication between agencies, and hardly knows how to account for the over taxation of us citizens.
Pathetic.
Our President was a Governor. He talked a lot about states rights and stronger local government when he ran... but that was then. An organism such as government is only as strong as its weakest cell. Our government is sucking the life out of its cities, counties and states. It isn't a pretty sight.
I have a huge problem with this...
Is this riembursement?, how do they prove what they have given out? Is our government so short sided and supply-less that local churches are better prepared to give out basic supplies than it is? Are we talking about paying churches to manage money for supplies.. sounds like a middle man opportunity for corruption... wheres jimmy swaggert when theres a buck to be had?
This smells pretty stinky... this is more short sided than handing out credit cards...
More proof, that our government is too large, lacks communication between agencies, and hardly knows how to account for the over taxation of us citizens.
Pathetic.
Our President was a Governor. He talked a lot about states rights and stronger local government when he ran... but that was then. An organism such as government is only as strong as its weakest cell. Our government is sucking the life out of its cities, counties and states. It isn't a pretty sight.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
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Accountable
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Churches will be paid by FEMA
Started with Lincoln and has gained momentum ever since.