The Origins Of Satanism And The Illuminati

[TruthBringer]

Much is known about the origins of Christianity, and the Bible, Including Christ, God, etc., thanks to all of the well written Scriptures that we have to use as a reference, but not so much is known about the origins of the Illuminati, and/or the origins of Satanism. This is important to understand because it is not this way by coincidence, but in the cases of the origins of the Illuminati and Satanism, both are hidden on purpose, and both are kept secret.

Regardless of what you may have been told by someone else, there appears to be two different origins for both "religious" organizations. In Satanism's case, it appears that the origins for the organization seem to stem directly from the story of Lucifer's fall from Heaven which is an account given in both the story of Revelations as well as the Book of Enoch which is said to be a much older source than that of Revelations (whether those who have been indoctrinated into Satanism realize this connection or not), and that it also has at it's beginnings a very strong connection to the story of Cain and Abel. It is said that the Book of Enoch was well known to the writers of the New Testament and therefore also well known to the writer of Revelations because a short section of 1 Enoch (1En1:9) is quoted in the New Testament (Letter of Jude 1:14-15), and there apparently attributed to "Enoch the Seventh from Adam" (1En60:8). It is argued that all the writers of the New Testament were familiar with it and were influenced by it in thought and diction. Cain and Abel appear to be very important figures in true Satanism, because there is a well known legend attached to the figure of Cain in which a jewel from the crown of Lucifer fell on Cain's head from the sky and caused Cain to be possessed by Evil and or Lucifer Himself and therefore caused Cain to commit the "first" murder on the Earth. This jewel appears to be central to the true teachings of Satanism, and may not even be commonly taught to it's lower members. But the story of the "Green Emerald Tablet" appears to also be directly connected to this same jewel and therefore appears to be a central theme in the true origins of Satanism. It is this jewel that is said to one day have the ability when combined with other items to manifest Satan's solid physical form on the Earth, of which it appears He does not currently hold at the moment. This jewel tablet is said to be well hidden until just the right time when this process can be complete. I believe that all these things together are where the true origins of Satanism/Luciferianism originate from.

The Illuminati's origin story is a bit different. Although it appears that many members of FreeMasonry have also been followers of the religious doctrine known as Satanism (And there appear to have been Christian FreeMasons as well throughout history), the true roots and origins of the Illuminati appear not to have originated in FreeMasonry (in fact it appears to be the other way around), but instead to have their roots in Egyptian mythology, stemming directly from the story of Set, Osiris, and Horus. Now it is important not to stop there when examining the roots of the Illuminati, however, because the true roots of the Illuminati appear to go even further back to the story of Atlantis, which predated the Ancient Egyptian civilizations. One thing can be certain, which is that the ties that caused those who worshiped Osiris and Horus and even Set as "gods" to do so back in the ancient days have not been broken, but have instead been passed down through the generations, and the Illuminati has played what appears to be a central role in this process. Although Lucifer is not directly connected to the story of Osiris, Set, and Horus, it does appear that this same story is directly connected to the story of Lucifer's jealousy of His brother Christ in Heaven, and how Lucifer wanted to rule as God. Whereas with the Egyptian mythology, Set is Jealous of both Osiris and Horus, and wants to eliminate them both in order to be King on the Earth. The story of Lucifer/Satan is almost identical to the example of Set, because Luficer also has as one of his main goals to rule as "King" of the Earth. Many have also theorized that Set was possessed just like Cain was said to have been possessed by the Spirit of Lucifer, and that this is what caused him to want to murder his brother Horus. But the two stories have basically an identical theme, which is that in both of them, one Brother was jealous of the other and wanted Him killed. Cain and Abel, and Set and Horus. But the proof for the central figure most important to the Illuminati is Set, because the story of what He did is what the Illuminati retells over and over and over to it's members, and is what is most portrayed in the messages they display for the World even up to our present day. There appears to be a strong connection to the "lady in red" otherwise known as Egyptian mythology as Sekhmet (also spelled Sachmet, Sakhet, Sekmet, Sakhmet and Sekhet; and given the Greek name, Sachmis) or the "eye of Horus (which is one of their favorite symbols and appears also on the back of the dollar bill)" as well, and the punishment and pain she inflicted upon the World in a so called "cause for justice" (which is where the Illuminati directly gets it's idea of order through pain and punishment). Those indoctrinated into this cult know exactly who I am speaking of. But the lady in red is not what is really important to the core theme of the Illuminati. It is the obsession with Set (as is with the case of Lucifer with Satanism) and what he did that appears to be of the utmost importance and this is there for anyone to see, and the other stories appear to be less relevant. Such is not the case with Christianity and the other religions which are in opposition, as the story of Lucifer and what He did is not nearly as important as is with God and Christ, and who/what He did. As Jesus said, you will "know them by their fruits", or as in this case, you will know them by the stories they are obsessed with.

So even though the two organizations have different legends, they are basically born from the same source, which is the story of Evil/and or the story of the Fall of Grace from the devil, also known as Lucifer. We have no other reference point on the Earth for the beginnings of Evil other than with the story of the war in Heaven, where Lucifer (who appears to have committed the first original "sin" or "evil act"), turns against God and Christ and the ArchAngels and leads an army against them but fails to win and is then cast down to the Earth from Heaven, where according to all legends, He has remained ever since.

So even though both the story of Revelations and the Book of Enoch appear to have been written after the time of both Ancient Egypt and it's mythology and with the case of Revelations also after the story of Cain and Abel from scripture, it would appear that the story of Revelations as well as the Book of Enoch is the closest to the original source for where Evil organizations obtained their roots and doctrines. Even though they can be traced back to the mythology of ancient civilizations, the story of Lucifer's fall from Heaven appears to be the very beginning for any Evil doctrine to have ever taken form from. And therefore they believe in it (either subconsciously or consciously) just as much as do Jews, Christians, and Muslims.

Therefore, in conclusion, I think it is safe to say that the story of Revelations and The Book of Enoch and the story of Lucifer's fall from the Grace of God in Heaven, all appear to be the closest to the Truth for where Evil Truly had it's beginnings, and where both the Illuminati's doctrines as well as the doctrines of Satanism have their roots, and that the story of Osiris, Set, and Horus, in the case with the Illuminati, and with Cain and Abel and the legend of the fallen Emerald as in the case with the doctrines of Satanism, all appear to both have their original roots in the story of Revelations/the Book of Enoch, which was put into written form later, but appears to have already been common knowledge going probably back to the most ancient civilizations including Atlantis, Lemuria, etc., which had at their core a similar story in the form of the "Sons of Light" and the "Sons of "Belial", and was simply retold throughout the following generations in the form of Egyptian mythology, and Satanism, as well as other religious organizations such as Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc.

But no matter what the religious organization, one common theme in all of them appears to be that Evil was possessing the bodies of all of the figures who were committing negative acts in their legends. So possession appears to be connected to all of them. And in the case of all of them, there appears to be a supernatural power not present in any Human Being that was present with these "gods" as they are called by both the Illuminati, and by Satanists. Demons, Evil, Possession, and Hell/an Underworld or "living quarters for those of a more negative nature", all appear to be a common theme in both the Illuminati and in Satanism.

So even though the two organizations have two different starting points in history, and have two different origins and legends/mythologies behind them, it does appear that both are connected to the stories of Revelations and the Book of Enoch, and that it is these stories that give them an identical actual source for their existence. And therefore, in my opinion, have (whether they realize it or not) an identical goal they both hope to achieve for the Earth, which as I mentioned before is to ultimately bring into physical manifestation the Spirits of those who they worship as "gods" as well as to ultimately set up a "kingdom" on the Earth through chaos in the form of pain and punishment which would if successful result in them controlling nearly every single facet of people's lives, and with the tenants of only 3 primary religious organizations standing opposed to them and their plans which are Islam, Christianity, and Judaism, all 3 of which must be eliminated if the goals of both Satanism and the Illuminati are to ever become a reality.

[yaaarrrgg]

Satanism is an offshoot of Christianity. The beliefs of Christians and Satanists coincide in most all aspects, with the exception of which team they play for.

There was a group called the Illuminati years ago, that likely comprised of scientists fearing persecution at the hands of nutjob Christians. For almost 2000 years, the church managed to destroy all progress and plunge the Western world into the dark ages (starting with burning the great libraries, killing the thinkers).

[TruthBringer]

yaaarrrgg;1345151 wrote: Satanism is an offshoot of Christianity. The beliefs of Christians and Satanists coincide in most all aspects, with the exception of which team they play for.

There was a group called the Illuminati years ago, that likely comprised scientists fearing persecution at the hands of nutjob Christians. For almost 2000 years, the church managed to destroy all progress and plunge the Western world into the dark ages (starting with burning the great libraries, killing the thinkers).


How come you can so easily call Christians nutjobs, but you can speak of Satanism and the Illuminati with total respect? Carefully making sure to not insult either one of them? What if anything does that tell me about you?

James 4:7

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

[TruthBringer]

John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me"

Yaaarrrgg I'm just curious about something. Are you calling Christ a liar?

Better yet, is anyone on this entire forum calling Jesus the Christ a liar?

[TruthBringer]

"Our Father, who art in heaven

hallowed be thy Name,

thy kingdom come,

thy will be done,

on earth as it is in heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread

And forgive us our trespasses,

as we forgive those

who trespass against us.

And lead us not into temptation,

but deliver us from evil.

For thine is the kingdom,

and the power, and the glory,

for ever and ever.

Amen."

[TruthBringer]

"Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now, and at the hour of our death, amen."

[TruthBringer]

"Hail Mary,

Full of Grace,

The Lord is with thee.

Blessed art thou among women,

and blessed is the fruit

of thy womb, Jesus.

Holy Mary,

Mother of God,

pray for us sinners now,

and at the hour of death.

Amen."

[Ahso!]

TruthBringer;1345207 wrote: John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me"

Yaaarrrgg I'm just curious about something. Are you calling Christ a liar?

Better yet, is anyone on this entire forum calling Jesus the Christ a liar?If he were real he'd be a liar, or worse., but the person portrayed in the christian bible never existed, so its a moot point.

[TruthBringer]

Ahso!;1345214 wrote: If he were real he'd be a liar, or worse., but the person portrayed in the christian bible never existed, so its a moot point.


Well, I see where you are coming from. And, if there is a Hell (which you don't know for sure that there isn't), I would suspect that you have a front seat ticket to there based on your comment above. And if there is a Devil (which you don't know for sure if there is or isn't), I'm sure he's frothing at the mouth right now waiting for you to show up. He's probably just pissed that he has to wait for you because I'm sure he'd rather have you sooner than later.

You can't get to Heaven if you deny Christ my friend. Jesus couldn't have made it any clearer. Do you have to be a Christian? Not necessarily, I believe that Muslims and Jews have the right idea. They both believe that Jesus existed (which you don't), they just don't quite honor His importance yet (and the keyword is yet). But they don't deny His existence, and both of them believe in God as well, but they believe that Christ was a very important figure in history.

It's those who deny Christ entirely, those like you, who should be worried. Can you right your ship at anytime that you're still alive? Yes you can. But Christ also made it perfectly clear in the Gospel of Thomas that if you try to find God after you die you will not be able to do so. But the Devil? Well he won't be hidden from you I can promise you that much.

[TruthBringer]

By the way in regards to what Hell might be like, my theory is that if you take the worst situation and things that people have done to each other on Earth, and I mean the worst of the worst, you know, tearing peoples eyes out, ripping out tongues, slashing peoples abdomen open and watching the entrails spill out, you know, all of the things that we Humans have done to each other throughout history and that we have been ALLOWED to do to each other, and that if you took all of those things, wrapped them all into one, I would suspect that if there is a Hell, that all of the things we have done to each other wouldn't amount to probably 1% of what a place like Hell would be like. I would imagine a place like that would contain things that even the Human Imagination (as sick and twisted as it can be) hasn't ever begun to think of doing to someone yet.

And if none of that makes you feel a little sick to your stomach, well then I would also imagine that you haven't completely come to terms with the reality of what is possible. Look around you my friend, look around you and see what is possible. If it can happen here........I'll leave it at that.

[TruthBringer]

And for those who are wondering how in the World I can speak of such things as if they are possible and or a reality, let me share a little story with all of you that you may or may not find interesting.

Something very strange happened to me a little while back. I listened to one of those Idoser programs called the Gates of Hades. I should have never listened to it but the good news is that I only listened to like 2 minutes of it not the whole 40 minutes or whatever it was. Anyways, I felt my heart starting to race and I felt unseasy from just the sound of it so I went ahead and turned it off and said I'll never listen to it again. Anyways, that same night, I was laying on my bed, on my stomach, and I felt my back start to burn in a way. Almost like as if I was being bit by something. Anyways, the feeling went away after a bit and I felt it was strange but didn't think anything of it. The next day I was taking off my shirt to change into another one and my Wife asked me what was on my back. I didn't know what she was talking about so I went and looked in the mirror and sure enough there was 3 red (because some of my skin had been taken off) claw marks on my back just like the ones you see in those paranormal cases of ghost stories and such. It was identical. 3 lines all the same length in the form of what can only be described as claw marks. And I never bumped into anything that night. So I am a true believer that there is some crazy stuff out there. I know this now more than ever.

lol. All I can tell you is that whatever put that mark on my back wasn't very happy that I didn't finish listening to the program. And I really shouldn't laugh because I am quite serious about it being pissed. I should know because I felt it scratching off my skin.

Oh and by the way, if anyone is thinking right now that they would like to try that Gates of Hades Idoser program out for themselves than let me just tell you that I would not recommend it. It's not a game. What happened to me was real. Sometimes we Humans play around with things that we don't quite understand the power of. Maybe nothing will happen to you if you listen to it, but let me just tell you, I don't know what would have happened had I listened to the entire program. I may have regretted it much more. Christ protects me though and always will as long as I am One with Him.

[TruthBringer]

At this stage I want to show you some scriptures that refer to the location of Hell.

See the scriptures below.

In Ezekiel 26:20 (English-NIV) it says:

then I will bring you down with those who go down to the pit, to the people of long ago. I will make you dwell in the earth below, as in ancient ruins, with those who go down to the pit, and you will not return or take your place in the land of the living.



Notice that this scripture indicates that some people are dwelling in the Earth below (the pit).

Ezekiel 31:16 (English-KJV)

I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.

Again Hell (sheol, underworld, grave, hell, pit) is referred to as being in the earth.

Luke 16:19-28 (English-NIV)

19 There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day.

20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores

21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried.

23 In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.

24 So he called to him, `Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.

25 But Abraham replied, Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.

26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.

27 He answered, `Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house,

28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.



Remember that these are the recorded words of Jesus himself.

Taken literally it suggests that the world of the dead is/was divided into 2 regions. One for the wicked and the other for the righteous.

The wicked are in torment in hell and the righteous are/were in peace with Abraham.

There was/is a chasm between the 2 places that stopped either side from crossing to the other, yet they could/can still communicate with each other.

[TruthBringer]

Now I want to show you that Jesus went to Hades/Hell after He was crucified on the Cross according to the scripture.

Matthew 12:40 (English-NIV)

For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

This scripture is quite blatant about the fact that Jesus went to the heart of the earth for 3 days and 3 nights.

1 Peter 3 (English-NIV)

18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,

19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison

20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

This scripture says that Jesus preached to disobedient spirits in prison who died before the flood of Noah.

It does make sense that when Jesus defeated death, he could have proclaimed his victory to the wicked spirits in Hell, in other words he heralded their soon coming judgement, and then of course he set the righteous spirits free to abide in Heaven. It doesn't necessarily mean that Jesus gave the wicked a second chance to repent as the New Testament scriptures are quite blatant about the fact that you can only repent while you are alive.

[TruthBringer]

According to Jude, even Moses nearly went to Hell for much of what He did while He was alive:

Jude 1:9 says

But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

[Ahso!]

I am as certain about the nonexistence of your god, satan, heaven and hell and all the rest that goes with the bible story as you are about Peter Pan, The Tooth Fairy, The Easter Bunny, The Great Shoe God, The Flying Spaghetti Monster and all the God's other religions prop up.

Does that put it in perspective for you, TB?

[TruthBringer]

Ahso!;1345229 wrote: I am as certain about the nonexistence of your god, satan, heaven and hell and all the rest that goes with the bible story as you are about Peter Pan, The Tooth Fairy, The Easter Bunny, The Great Shoe God, The Flying Spaghetti Monster and all the God's other religions prop up.


No you're not. Because you couldn't possibly be. It is completely impossible for you to be 100% sure as a Human Being living on the Earth with limited perception to the realities of what COULD BE that you could ever possibly be 100% sure of anything else besides what you already think you know is possible. And even with that, you could never be 100% sure that what you think you know couldn't eventually change on you.

[TruthBringer]

I myself am not sure whether there is a Hell or not. But I can never let myself be foolish enough to claim with 100% certainty that there isn't one. Scripture points to the fact that there is. So I lean towards that. And I believe in Scripture, especially the New Testament. And all I know is that I am 100% certain that if there really IS a Hell than I don't ever want to be there.

[Ahso!]

TB, did you know what the reason the Tooth Fairy collects everyone's teeth was? I'll tell you - it's so the people who didn't believe in the Fairy while they were living, The Tooth Fairy will reinstall all the teeth that became abscessed so they will live with toothaches for all eternity.

Now, that would truly suck.

[Ahso!]

TruthBringer;1345230 wrote: No you're not.Oh, but I am!

[TruthBringer]

Ahso!;1345233 wrote: TB, did you know what the reason the Tooth Fairy collects everyone's teeth? I'll tell you - it's so the people who didn't believe in the Fairy while they were living, The Tooth Fairy will reinstall all the teeth that became abscessed so they will live with toothaches for all eternity.

Now, that would truly suck.


Tooth fairy, Santa Claus, and all the rest? I am with you on those, OBVIOUSLY. The difference is that Christ never mentioned anything about any of those things. Because they weren't important. What He did mention, is that there is a place of torment. That much is for certain. We can argue about why there is a place for torment all day, but as I said, look around you, the Earth is already place of torment. And as I said before...if it can happen here....

[TruthBringer]

Ahso!;1345234 wrote: Oh, but I am!


lol. You are scared. Don't be. Repent, turn to God, and admit that those who don't can't do whatever they please and get away with it. Everyone pays for what they do even if not while they are alive on this planet. They can't escape the consequences for their actions.

[Ahso!]

You said you are certain that The Tooth Fairy, The Flying Spaghetti Monster, The Great Shoe God, Peter Pan and all the God's of other religions are not real and true Gods. I challenge you to PROVE IT.

[Ahso!]

TruthBringer;1345236 wrote: lol. You are scared. Don't be. Repent, turn to God, and admit that those who don't can't do whatever they please and get away with it. Everyone pays for what they do even if not while they are alive on this planet. They can't escape the consequences for their actions.Yes, TB, I'm shittin' my pants as I type this.

[TruthBringer]

Ahso!;1345237 wrote: You said you are certain that The Tooth Fairy, The Flying Spaghetti Monster, The Great Shoe God, Peter Pan and all the God's of other religions are not real and true Gods. I challenge you to PROVE IT.


As I said, we only have what we are able to do to each other here on the Earth as any kind of reference even a slight understanding for what might be possible in a place like Hell.

What I can tell you is this. Anyone in history who has ever claimed that they have "Sold their Souls to the Devil", of all of those people who have made such a claim, either by telling a friend or telling the public or whatever you have it, who claim that they have "made a pact" with the Devil, not a single one of them that I have ever read about or heard about has ever followed that up with that everything is going to be ok for them. The more extreme ones admit that they will surely be with the Devil and are looking forward to it. The less extreme ones claim that they understand that anything they gain from such a thing will only bring them temporary comfort while they are alive during their current life, but that they realize that it is only temporary, and that they will eventually have to pay the price for it.

But those are the only two outcomes that have ever been admitted to. Also, in Scripture, nowhere in Scripture does it say anywhere, in any Scripture, that the Devil has power to save people from torment. In fact it states the opposite, that the Devil has power over those who are tormented.

These are the only proofs I have for you. If those aren't enough for you than there is nothing else I can do to try and change your mind.

[TruthBringer]

Here's more of Jesus's words on the subject:

Mark 9:43-47

43And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

44Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

[TruthBringer]

TruthBringer;1345247 wrote: Here's more of Jesus's words on the subject:

Mark 9:43-47

43And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

44Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:


One thing that I find disturbing about this message is that Jesus appears to make it perfectly clear that the fires in Hell will NEVER be quenched. And I do believe when Jesus used the word never that He meant what He said by it.

[Ahso!]

TruthBringer;1345249 wrote: One thing that I find disturbing about this message is that Jesus appears to make it perfectly clear that the fires in Hell will NEVER be quenched. And I do believe when Jesus used the word never that He meant what He said by it.Your only problem here, TB, is he didn't say it - some guy writing a story had a character in that story say it. The fact is that outside the biblical story of Jesus as is portrayed, there is not a shred of evidence of this person. No historians of the time make mention of him, there are no first hand accounts whatsoever and we have no writings from this person - nothing other than a story.

[TruthBringer]

Ahso!;1345250 wrote: Your only problem here, TB, is he didn't say it - some guy writing a story had a character in that story say it. The fact is that outside the biblical story of Jesus as is portrayed, there is not a shred of evidence of this person. No historians of the time make mention of him, there are no first hand accounts whatsoever and we have no writings from this person - nothing other than a story.


And if I was you, than right now I would be praying to God that you are right. Even though you don't believe in God.....

[Ahso!]

TruthBringer;1345252 wrote: And if I was you, than right now I would be praying to God that you are right. Even though you don't believe in God.....Thats a difference between you and me, isn't it, TB. I don't pray to ghosts and I don't need protection from goblins.

[TruthBringer]

Ahso!;1345253 wrote: Thats a difference between you and me, isn't it, TB. I don't pray to ghosts and I don't need protection from goblins.


Did you ever stop to consider that there might be a reason that much of the proof for Jesus's existence has been hidden? Did you ever stop to think about the fact that our own government hides things so well from the rest of the population? Did you ever stop to consider that you could be entirely wrong about your assumptions about Jesus? Did you ever consider that you have nothing really to base your assumptions on than the lack of evidence? When Jesus stated Himself that evidence doesn't get you into Heaven?

[Ahso!]

TruthBringer;1345254 wrote: Did you ever stop to consider that there might be a reason that much of the proof for Jesus's existence has been hidden? Did you ever stop to think about the fact that our own government hides things so well from the rest of the population? Did you ever stop to consider that you could be entirely wrong about your assumptions about Jesus? Did you ever consider that you have nothing really to base your assumptions on than the lack of evidence? When Jesus stated Himself that evidence doesn't get you into Heaven?Yup. I thought about all that stuff for years. When it comes to a living God, there is nothing hidden, its just not there.

[TruthBringer]

On faith:

Matthew 9:2Some people brought to him a paralyzed man on a mat. Seeing their faith, Jesus said to the paralyzed man, "Take heart, son! Your sins are forgiven."

Matthew 14:31Instantly Jesus reached out his hand and grabbed him. "You don't have much faith," Jesus said. "Why did you doubt me?"

Mark 2:5Seeing their faith, Jesus said to the paralyzed man, "My son, your sins are forgiven."

Mark 10:15I assure you, anyone who doesn't have their kind of faith will never get into the Kingdom of God."

Mark 11:22Then Jesus said to the disciples, "Have faith in God.

Luke 18:8I tell you, he will grant justice to them quickly! But when I, the Son of Man, return, how many will I find who have faith?"

Acts 14:22where they strengthened the believers. They encouraged them to continue in the faith, reminding them that they must enter into the Kingdom of God through many tribulations.

Acts 20:21I have had one message for Jews and Gentiles alike--the necessity of turning from sin and turning to God, and of faith in our Lord Jesus.

Romans 1:12I'm eager to encourage you in your faith, but I also want to be encouraged by yours. In this way, each of us will be a blessing to the other.

Romans 1:17This Good News tells us how God makes us right in his sight. This is accomplished from start to finish by faith. As the Scriptures say, "It is through faith that a righteous person has life." [ Hab 2:4.]

Romans 3:27Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on our good deeds. It is based on our faith.

Romans 5:1[ Faith Brings Joy ] Therefore, since we have been made right in God's sight by faith, we have peace with God because of what Jesus Christ our Lord has done for us.

Romans 5:2Because of our faith, Christ has brought us into this place of highest privilege where we now stand, and we confidently and joyfully look forward to sharing God's glory.

Romans 10:17Yet faith comes from listening to this message of good news--the Good News about Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:9The Spirit gives special faith to another, and to someone else he gives the power to heal the sick.

Corinthians 13:13There are three things that will endure--faith, hope, and love--and the greatest of these is love.

2 Corinthians 13:5Examine yourselves to see if your faith is really genuine. Test yourselves. If you cannot tell that Jesus Christ is among you, [ Or in you.] it means you have failed the test.

Galatians 3:14Through the work of Christ Jesus, God has blessed the Gentiles with the same blessing he promised to Abraham, and we Christians receive the promised Holy Spirit through faith.

Ephesians 3:12Because of Christ and our faith in him, we can now come fearlessly into God's presence, assured of his glad welcome.

Ephesians 6:16In every battle you will need faith as your shield to stop the fiery arrows aimed at you by Satan.

1 Thessalonians 5:8But let us who live in the light think clearly, protected by the body armor of faith and love, and wearing as our helmet the confidence of our salvation.

1 Timothy 3:9They must be committed to the revealed truths of the Christian faith and must live with a clear conscience.

1 Timothy 3:16Without question, this is the great mystery of our faith: (Jesus) appeared in the flesh and was shown to be righteous by the Spirit. He was seen by angels and was announced to the nations. He was believed on in the world and was taken up into heaven.

1 Timothy 4:12Don't let anyone think less of you because you are young. Be an example to all believers in what you teach, in the way you live, in your love, your faith, and your purity.

2 Timothy 2:22Run from anything that stimulates youthful lust. Follow anything that makes you want to do right. Pursue faith and love and peace, and enjoy the companionship of those who call on the Lord with pure hearts.

Titus 1:13This is true. So rebuke them as sternly as necessary to make them strong in the faith.

Hebrews 10:38And a righteous person will live by faith. But I will have no pleasure in anyone who turns away." [ Hab 2:3-4.]

Hebrews 10:39But we are not like those who turn their backs on God and seal their fate. We have faith that assures our salvation.

Hebrews 11:3By faith we understand that the entire universe was formed at God's command, that what we now see did not come from anything that can be seen.

James 1:3For when your faith is tested, your endurance has a chance to grow.

James 2:1My dear brothers and sisters, how can you claim that you have faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ if you favor some people more than others?

1 Peter 1:7These trials are only to test your faith, to show that it is strong and pure. It is being tested as fire tests and purifies gold--and your faith is far more precious to God than mere gold. So if your faith remains strong after being tried by fiery trials, it will bring you much praise and glory and honor on the day when Jesus Christ is revealed to the whole world.

[Ahso!]

Look, TB, it takes an extremely strong person to, after all the years of being molded and misguided by well meaning people to believe the unbelievable, actually lift above the fog and look at reality as it is in the raw. I'm one of those very strong people, however, it took quite a fight on my part to undue what needed to be undone. It's not easy, and people can't fight that fight unless they truly come from behind all their fears and confront their own ghosts.

If I were you, I'd be praying that I could gain the strength to do what is needed to become truly conscious. Put down the fairy tales that hide you from your fears and look life in the eye.

[TruthBringer]

Ahso!;1345257 wrote: Look, TB, it takes an extremely strong person to, after all the years of being molded and misguided by well meaning people to believe the unbelievable, actually lift above the fog and look at reality as it is in the raw. I'm one of those very strong people, however, it took quite a fight on my part to undue what needed to be undone. It's not easy, and people can't fight that fight unless they truly come from behind all their fears and confront their own ghosts.

If I were you, I'd be praying that I could gain the strength to do what is needed to become truly conscious. Put down the fairy tales that hide you from your fears and look life in the eye.


Actually I would argue that it is much easier to be misguided into giving up your beliefs. I would also argue that it is much harder to try and continue to hold onto them in the face of adversity.

[Ahso!]

TruthBringer;1345258 wrote: Actually I would argue that it is much easier to be misguided into giving up your beliefs. I would also argue that it is much harder to try and continue to hold onto them in the face of adversity.I know. Thats what I thought too for years. Thats the illusion you need to come out from. That is actually your fear talking like your friend, which it isn't in this case.

[TruthBringer]

Ahso!;1345260 wrote: I know. Thats what I thought too for years. Thats the illusion you need to come out from. That is actually your fear talking like your friend, which it isn't in this case.


Right and like I said for your sake after you die I hope you are right. Fortunately I am not in the same situation. At least according to my beliefs. You are going on sheer hope that you are right and even what you claim is 100% confidence that you are right. I am going on something which at least has some kind of pretext to it. Some kind of guide post to follow. You're basically whistling off into the night. So certain that you are correct. But remember this, Pride always comes before the fall.

[TruthBringer]

Or what of the giant squid? A creature that for the longest time was spoken of but of which there was no proof to back up the claims for it's existence. Is this how you feel about Jesus? Have you ever considered that like the giant squid one day definite proof of Jesus's existence will be discovered? Is it only then that you will believe? Not because of faith but because of evidence?

[Ahso!]

TruthBringer;1345261 wrote: Right and like I said for your sake after you die I hope you are right. Fortunately I am not in the same situation. At least according to my beliefs. You are going on sheer hope that you are right and even what you claim is 100% confidence that you are right. I am going on something which at least has some kind of pretext to it. Some kind of guide post to follow. You're basically whistling off into the night. So certain that you are correct. But remember this, Pride always comes before the fall.So this guy I used to have Christian Fellowship with years ago made the same argument to me the last time we spoke. The problem with this 'safety' argument is the fact that since you choose to remain imprisoned in illusion is you miss life - it passes you by. Why? Because you were afraid of it, you waste everything you claim to live for - TRUTH!

[TruthBringer]

Also Ahso I would like to say that I did not come to Christ (and therefore to God) out of fear, but I was 19 years old and I could see my Life slipping into despair, and closer to death with every minute that passed - and possibly even closer to the Devil, at that point in time - as creepy as that sounds, and there was even a point where I no longer had any dreams, and it has been said that when you don't have any dreams than you are in a very bad place in your Life, and I for one believe it because it was the only time period in my Life where I ever went for months without having any dreams at all, and nothing seemed to be able to curb it because I felt like I had an empty hole inside me and not to mention that everything else in my Life seemed to be falling apart, and like I said the deep hole I felt inside myself I could not fill myself no matter how hard I tried, so I had decided that I was most likely going to kill myself (I am happy I didn't), but I made myself a promise that before I took my own Life, I would go ahead and give this whole Bible thing an actual go (instead of just listening to others talk about it all the time, though I had tried to read it before but at the time I thought it was the most boring thing in the World), so I went ahead and actually attempted to pay attention to what I was reading this time word for word. So anyways, I remember it well, King James version, New Testament, Red Letters. I read all of what Jesus had to say. That night I spoke to Jesus for what seemed like hours, and that was the night I changed. I was sitting in the bathroom in the pitch black, almost like in a trance, talking to Christ, and asking Him to come into my Life. All I can tell you is that I went to sleep that night one person, and I woke up the next day an entirely different one. Perhaps this has something to do with the whole "Two will lie down on one bed. One will die and the other will live." I'm not sure if that's what Jesus meant by that but that is exactly what happened to me. From that point on, I have evolved in my beliefs to the point I am at today, but I still can feel the difference between the way I am now and the person I was on that special night. Needless to say I never did kill myself, and to this day (it was a bit of a process), the hole I once had inside me has been filled. And only one thing led me to the only thing that could fill it. It led me to God. It was Christ. And I am forever grateful to my Brother for helping me. I guess you could say I am a "born again" Christian. But I am certain I wouldn't have found myself if I hadn't made the choice to do so that evening.

I must warn someone who thinks that just reading the Bible is enough to bring Christ into your body. It isn't. I had to actually make the connection with Him by asking Him to enter me. Sort of like possession but with Christ it's different because you only feel Him enter you but you don't feel as though He is controlling you. And God along with Him of course. Both are One and you become One when They enter. And when They do, the "hole" is filled. However, at least for me, I have noticed that you have to do a ritual for yourself if you expect Christ to truly enter your body. I use the term ritual because that's the best way to describe it. You have to make the connection. You have to let Him enter your Soul, Body, And Mind. And He will. You just have to ask for it, and believe in it.

[TruthBringer]

Also when I first started out as "reborn" I would only accept the Bible as the one true source of Christ's words. And I did get a lot of people to listen to me back then while I was at parties mostly because it seemed like the drunker people got the more they wanted to hear about God (go figure), but then one day I was arguing with my Mother and her friend about how the Bible was the only source to look to for Christ's teachings when they finally broke me down with one statement that I will never forget which is "How can you say that there is no other source for His teachings but the Bible when you have never even looked to see if that's the case?"

And you know what? They were right. So I went ahead and looked for other sources and that's when I came across the Gospel of Thomas and some of the Gnostic/Coptic texts. And I fell in love with them immediately. So much so that I spent 6 months working on unscrambling them into the way that I could better understand them. It was an amazing experience similar to the one with the Bible, but this time I felt even more connected to Christ's teachings because I felt like I could identify with these Scriptures just as well, in fact I felt like I could understand them back then even better than I could the entire New Testament (not so much the case anymore as I feel I can understand both pretty evenly).

So I wouldn't say I am your typical Christian. Most Christians regard anything not already canonized in the Bible as heresy. Even if they contain the words "Jesus Said", which no other texts other than the New Testament Scriptures and the Gospel of Thomas Scriptures do by the way. But as I was getting at I am not your typical Christian because I also accept The Gospel of Thomas, Philip, etc. As just as important texts as those that can be found in the Bible. This might make me a Gnostic Christian. Or a Christian Gnostic, however you want to word it. It's the closest label to the kind of Christian that I am that I can find. I also find interest in Astrology, which is no secret, and Moses said that it was bad (I disagree with this because Jesus never said so and Moses said a lot of things which weren't very cool in the eyes of God, and that's why I believe that it states in Scripture that he almost went to Hell for much of the things he did), not to mention that I believe it was God who created the stars in the sky, and the planets, etc., and that I have definitely noticed a correlation between the science of Astrology and Truth, and if there is a factual science at all than it is only possible because of God so I accept Astrology as factual. And unless I ever see a Scripture where Jesus/Christ directly forbids using Astrology as a tool for understanding people (Because Jesus is my authority not Moses), than I will continue to use it to do so. Not to forsee the future and all of that but just to understand people's personalities including my own better. Anyways back to the Gnostic Christian thing. Yeah, I'd have to say that's what I would label myself as. So I use the Bible as a reference for Truth as well as the Gnostic Texts. And I follow Christ and I want to forever. He is my Lord and Savior. King of Kings. Lord of Lords. Not to mention my Brother (which I believe is the most important and my favorite way to look at Him).

He was amazing. Plain and simple. As good as Gandhi was he didn't hold a candle to Jesus. No one did. Jesus stood apart from everyone as the greatest man that ever lived. Not the best (Jesus would say we are all Equal in the eyes of God). But the greatest. The most High. The one who has conquered death. The first one to ever do so. The first and closest to the Source. The Christ. The Redeemer. My Hero, and my Idol. I love Him. And My Father in Heaven as well (of course). With all my Body, my Mind, and My Heart and Soul. Basically with everything that I am.

[yaaarrrgg]

TruthBringer;1345201 wrote: How come you can so easily call Christians nutjobs, but you can speak of Satanism and the Illuminati with total respect? Carefully making sure to not insult either one of them? What if anything does that tell me about you?


If you read my post, I claimed that Satanists are a type of Christian, so I don't see how I've made any exceptions for them. You talk more about Satan than Jesus.

[TruthBringer]

yaaarrrgg;1345295 wrote: You talk more about Satan than Jesus.


Not True.

[Clown Antics]

yaaarrrgg;1345295 wrote: If you read my post, I claimed that Satanists are a type of Christian, so I don't see how I've made any exceptions for them. You talk more about Satan than Jesus.


Satanists are not Christians and never were. You don't just decide one morning your going to be a Satanists it does not work that way. Ever heard of Anton LaVey? Founder of the Church of Satan

A theistic Satanist, known as a "traditional Satanist," or "spiritual Satanist," or "Devil Worshiper," is one who does believe in and worship Satan as a deity....I could post links but it won't let me.

[yaaarrrgg]

Clown Antics;1351670 wrote: Satanists are not Christians and never were. You don't just decide one morning your going to be a Satanists it does not work that way. Ever heard of Anton LaVey? Founder of the Church of Satan

A theistic Satanist, known as a "traditional Satanist," or "spiritual Satanist," or "Devil Worshiper," is one who does believe in and worship Satan as a deity....I could post links but it won't let me.


You are missing my point. The devil is a Christian concept. Non-Christians don't believe the Christian devil exists, and can't worship it. The difference between Satanism and Christianity is not belief, since beliefs are virtually identical. The difference is the loyalties to the characters in the stories.

For example:

Satanists who believe in the Judeo-Christian concept of Satan are linked into the belief system of today's Judeo-Christian religion, as they believe in the same theology presented in the Hebrew Bible.


From Satanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Clown Antics]

OK....I would agree with that your talking spiritual Satanism, OK makes sense...

[Vicbowling]

I'm not sure what the connection between the Illuminati and Satan is but I would like to find out what the Illuminati really is.

[Spacemonkey]

Seriously, people who actually still believe that Jesus Christ (a Fictional Character) ever existed, are so full of sh#t! Religion actually made people believe that there is an invisible man in the sky, that gave you ten rules, that you HAVE to follow, or you will burn in hell for the rest of eternity... But here is the really screwed up part? He loves you?! What a load of BULL CRAP!

[YZGI]

Spacemonkey;1358790 wrote: Seriously, people who actually still believe that Jesus Christ (a Fictional Character) ever existed, are so full of sh#t! Religion actually made people believe that there is an invisible man in the sky, that gave you ten rules, that you HAVE to follow, or you will burn in hell for the rest of eternity... But here is the really screwed up part? He loves you?! What a load of BULL CRAP!


Well that settles that. The Spacemonkey has spoken!!

[Spacemonkey]

TruthBringer, you are an IDIOT!

I can't believe that people have been misled for soooo many years in believing that there is actually a god?!

You stupid puppet! Religion is a human condition, the need to explain the unexplained. I personally believe in Science.

Scientist's including myself have millions of facts that disprove religion without a shred of doubt, all you people have is a book.

People wrote the bible, not some invisible man in the sky with ten rules, and if you don't follow them you go to hell for the rest of eternity?!

And the ironic thing is... apparently he loves us... What a load of Bull Crap!

Had to rephrase... Now I'm happy...

[Richard Bell]

Vicbowling;1356091 wrote: I'm not sure what the connection between the Illuminati and Satan is but I would like to find out what the Illuminati really is.


Remember when you were a little kid, and some of the big kids would try to scare you with stories about monsters living under your bed that would come for you while you were sleeping?

Well, some of those kids never really grew up, and now they amuse themselves and try to cause consternation by telling Illuminati stories on the internet.