Earthquake in Japan

Post by **spot** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:06 am

I bet there'll be a lot of oooh the tsunami's coming, for the rest of the day.

Post by **spot** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:48 am

There's a startling widespread collapse of faults all along the Honshu coast, that big thump was part of a swarm which started two days ago - they're marked in yellow on the map. Some of those triggered by this morning's big one are inshore, too, unlike the initial ones. The local damage may be mounting after all.

10-degree Map Centered at 35°N,140°E

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flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:00 am

I hate days like this. All you can do is worry for folks that you can't reach out and take care of.

Ap is saying 200-300 bodies found in northeastern coastal area

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:34 am

There are refineries burning too. Check out the wave in this video. 3 weeks ago 2 volcanos on Kamchatka let loose.

YouTube - Devastating tsunami hits Japan

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:17 am

Scrat;1355369 wrote: There are refineries burning too. Check out the wave in this video. 3 weeks ago 2 volcanos on Kamchatka let loose.

YouTube - Devastating tsunami hits Japan

watching this all I can think about is just how scared they were.

and now the earthquake, how devastating!

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:57 am

Tsunami hit Japan now moving toward the West Coast we are under a coastal advisory in San Diego which means no real threat. Up north in Crescent City they are under a warning and evacuating low lying coastal areas.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:14 pm

Japan earthquake: Obama offers quake-ravaged Japan any assistance needed - latimes.com

President Obama on Friday offered earthquake-ravaged Japan any assistance needed to cope with the massive 8.9 temblor that has devastated the Asian nation, including technical aid to cope with a damaged nuclear power plant that has led to the evacuation of thousands for fear of a radiation leakage.

U.S. Air Force planes have already delivered coolant to the damaged nuclear power plant in Fukushima prefecture, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton announced.

What a difference a lifetime makes.............

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:03 pm

They screamed tsunami here all morning. We didn't get anything worse than bad weather. Funny how the tsunami watchers at NOAA said 1 to 2 foot waves and as soon as the local media got out of bed it became 3 to 5 feet. Officially we got a 1.6 foot wave.

I guess Japan is still trying to get things in order. I hear that the nuclear plant is getting worse.

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:06 pm

Damn. Halfway through it gets downright scarey.

YouTube - Japan Earthquake: Helicopter aerial view video of giant tsunami waves

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:50 pm

Oh, it is a horrible event-that is scarey to watch the tsunami wave.

along-for-the-ride · Post by **along-for-the-ride** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:57 pm

Humans will continue their considerable injustices to each other, but when natural disasters like this happen, we see what actually has the "upper hand". Our planet Earth.

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:21 pm

Kyodo News. Reactors are not doing so good?

URGENT: Radiation 1,000 times higher than normal detected at nuke plant | Kyodo News

Tepco. From the horses mouth.

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-co ... 209-e.html

Post by **spot** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:12 am

That explains why USAF was flying in coolant then. It's a sad world when "Radiation impact to the external environment has occurred but we're not announcing it yet" is expressed as "No radiation impact to the external environment has been confirmed", why can't they call a spade a spade.

Post by **spot** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:55 am

Spokesmen are apparently reduced to claiming that the building was blown apart by a build-up of hydrogen, a claim which would be more credible if a source of hydrogen existed in the building. I reckon there's an exposed core inside that rubble, and a lot of dirty fallout in the air. One can only hope for a steady off-shore wind for the next few days.

Post by **spot** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:00 am

along-for-the-ride;1355382 wrote: Humans will continue their considerable injustices to each other, but when natural disasters like this happen, we see what actually has the "upper hand". Our planet Earth.

I'm all for pragmatism. Eathquakes kill fewer people than malaria, Chernobyl killed fewer people than coalmining did. What's happening in Japan isn't earth-shattering. Very few things would be, but we seem not to be bothered by the few things that are. They don't include earthquakes or nuclear plants exploding.

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:16 pm

Hydrogen is a by product of the process and can build up. Just how I don't know. What I would worry about is the population density in Japan. What if they get a southerly wind? It's not like the people can flee to the far reaches of Japan. With Chernobyl people could run far away quickly. Japans an island. I wish them luck.

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:19 pm

Here's some pics forwarded to me. It's a mess.

kerpe1

Post by **spot** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:20 pm

These at the Boston Globe are impressive too.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:09 am

spot;1355430 wrote: I'm all for pragmatism. Eathquakes kill fewer people than malaria, Chernobyl killed fewer people than coalmining did. What's happening in Japan isn't earth-shattering. Very few things would be, but we seem not to be bothered by the few things that are. They don't include earthquakes or nuclear plants exploding.You're right, but since such an event can be observed happening in real time, it seems earth-shattering. As I watched the Al jazeera video it was easy for me to imagine Japan disappearing into the ocean for good. An event such as that would certainly be a game changer for the remainder of the surviving world population.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:11 am

spot;1355444 wrote: These at the Boston Globe are impressive too.Great photos and they look amazing in 1080p

Post by **spot** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:10 pm

Ahso!;1355458 wrote: You're right, but since such an event can be observed happening in real time, it seems earth-shattering. As I watched the Al jazeera video it was easy for me to imagine Japan disappearing into the ocean for good.

From all I've seen, the wave penetrated no more than a mile inland at any point. Why anyone would build, much less live, in that zone baffles me, they must be witless, the tsunami this week on that coastline was inevitable eventually.

koan · Post by **koan** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:46 pm

It was uber windy today and as we small chatted about the wind some small, intense woman said "how dare we complain about weather after what happened in Japan!"

ahem. I dare. I dare to do a lot of things that would be laughable to others in more extreme circumstances. Mostly because I'm not there, I'm not them, I'm rather against the idea of wishing to trade places with anyone else in the world.

Anyway. The papers are plastered with pictures of devastation. I'm more keen to get the stories of the people coming together to help survivors. Those are the stories that make living okay.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:38 pm

Ap is reporting a hydrogen explosion at Fukushima

koan · Post by **koan** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:53 pm

Damn, there was a pic of a man carrying shoes in one hand and weeping into his other hand. Reminded me of a nightmare I had in which my daughter died and I was trying to get her shoes back to her in a state of shock but feeling like, having failed her, I had to make sure she at least got her shoes.

I hate pics like that. People's grief doesn't belong on headline photos.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:36 pm

One of my co-workers was on a flight from SFO to Narita when the thing hit.

They were rerouted to another airport about 300 km SE from Tokyo.

He had to spend the night there. He contacted his family in Tokyo and was relieved to hear they were safe, but scared.

He made it home the next day, made certain his wife and kids are safe, and headed north to join the rescue efforts.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:39 pm

koan;1355494 wrote: It was uber windy today and as we small chatted about the wind some small, intense woman said "how dare we complain about weather after what happened in Japan!"

ahem. I dare. I dare to do a lot of things that would be laughable to others in more extreme circumstances. Mostly because I'm not there, I'm not them, I'm rather against the idea of wishing to trade places with anyone else in the world.

Anyway. The papers are plastered with pictures of devastation. I'm more keen to get the stories of the people coming together to help survivors. Those are the stories that make living okay.

Here's a story you should like, then:

BBC News - Japan quake: Survivor rescued from roof out at sea

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:06 pm

From what I gathered the people in the area had only 9 minutes from the time the quake hit until the tsunami came ashore. That's not a lot.

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:15 pm

I guess they're having a hard time keeping the reactors cool. So far the containers are holding together but if they get hot enough even concrete will become a molten mass like lava. If they can't get enough water to cool them the system must be damaged or inadequate. I would think the former but I don't know if they planned for something like this. Most disaster scenarios are based on theory anyway. I guess we'll find out one way or another now.

Meltdown threat rises at Japanese nuclear plant | World News | Comcast.net

Post by **spot** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:20 pm

Has anyone seen a rational reason for the build-up of hydrogen (and, from the strength of the explosions, oxygen) to have been kept inside the outer building rather than flushed safely into the atmosphere? You'd think dispersal was preferable to the blasts.

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:40 pm

spot;1355468 wrote: From all I've seen, the wave penetrated no more than a mile inland at any point. Why anyone would build, much less live, in that zone baffles me, they must be witless, the tsunami this week on that coastline was inevitable eventually.
Some areas, the wave rolled 6 miles or more inland. Low-lying areas around rivers and such.

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:45 pm

spot;1355527 wrote: Has anyone seen a rational reason for the build-up of hydrogen (and, from the strength of the explosions, oxygen) to have been kept inside the outer building rather than flushed safely into the atmosphere? You'd think dispersal was preferable to the blasts.

Hydrogen and Oxygen can separate from super-heated steam.

Other contamanents can create an opportunity for combustion.

It does not appear the explosion was actually a Hydrogen fusion type, but simply a combustion explosion.

The containment is to prevent radioactive material from dispersing into the atmosphere, and it seems to still be doing that job, fairly well.

Hydrogen gas is more of a local threat than the dispersion that could come from a collapse of the containment structure.

Post by **spot** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:42 pm

So why on earth did they keep the Hydrogen and Oxygen inside the outer building rather than flushed safely into the atmosphere? The consequence of not flushing it was the explosions and the complete loss of the outer containment walls.

I'd not be surprised at "the wave rolled 6 miles or more inland" where it was focused by the shape of a narrowing river estuary with slopes either side, but I'd be interested to read the original article you got that comment from to find out what they meant by "inland" in that context.

Post by **LarsMac** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:24 am

spot;1355548 wrote: So why on earth did they keep the Hydrogen and Oxygen inside the outer building rather than flushed safely into the atmosphere? The consequence of not flushing it was the explosions and the complete loss of the outer containment walls.

I'd not be surprised at "the wave rolled 6 miles or more inland" where it was focused by the shape of a narrowing river estuary with slopes either side, but I'd be interested to read the original article you got that comment from to find out what they meant by "inland" in that context.

I was reading that on BBC website. Will go back and try to find the article, if you like.

Will post link when I find it.

As for the H and O, They didn't deliberately keep it there, it was a malfunction of the cooling system that caused the separation. Venting the pressure would have helped, but they apparently had not foreseen the conditions.

I am not sure that the outer containment is a complete loss. Where did you get that.?

From what I have heard and seen, the containment structure is cracked but holding. Also, latest is that the radiation spiked from a transient release during the explosion, but now has reduced to much less serious levels.

The one real problem I can see in this design is that the control rods require mechanical activity for them to be inserted.

Design should be changed so that the removal of control rods to allow reaction is the mechanical process. The default position should be "control Rods inserted", preventing reaction.

Then such an event would have almost immediately shut down the reaction.

Post by **spot** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:01 am

LarsMac;1355568 wrote: I am not sure that the outer containment is a complete loss. Where did you get that.?
It's my interpretation of http://www.digitalglobe.com/downloads/f ... 011_dg.jpg which appears to show the insides of two of the outer containment shells, with both their roofs missing.

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:24 pm

Here's a good blog about what is happening there.

MIT NSE Nuclear Information Hub (http://web.mit.edu/nse/) | Information about the incident at the Fukushima Nuclear Plants in Japan hosted by http://web.mit.edu/nse/ :: Maintained by the students of the Department of Nuclear Science and Engineering a