Jordan Brown: Child Murderer

koan · Post by **koan** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:33 am

Who killed his dad's fiancee: The kid with the gun or the parent who bought the gun for him?

Jordan Brown pulled the trigger at 11 yrs old and is waiting to find out if he'll be tried as an adult in the US. They got rid of the death penalty for young offenders but he could still be facing "life for life" in jail.

US child appeals against being tried for murder as an adult | World news | The Guardian

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:08 pm

Both father and son should both do life in prison. This was a very cold blooded killing unfortunately he thought about it and carried it out brutally.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:19 pm

It's a funny attitude americans have. A child is incapable of making responsible decisions about when they have sex or become pregnant or even be responsible enough to drive a car. But if they kill someone they know exactly what they are doing.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:23 pm

No confusion on my part you do the crime, you do the time. Who said we think a child isn't capable of a responsible decision with regards to sex, or driving. Not sure where you get your info but don't put lables on us, when you don't live here and most of your information is hearsay.

Post by **spot** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:24 pm

I've yet to find an American prepared to explain why the entire rest of the world (Somalia excluded) is wrong on an issue like this, and that the alternate view of America as extremist is false. Perhaps one of them might like to try here.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:38 pm

I don't think he should be tried as an adult and most won't but there has to be some time either in Rehab or juvenile facility with some mental health care provided.

Actually I think the dad should do time for being an idiot and give a specially made gun to an 11 year for use. It's pretty obvious this 11 year old hated this women for being with his father something lost in communication there that talking might have resolved.

Post by **spot** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:57 pm

It's rather hard to think how his hatred for the woman could have incommoded her in any way had he not been possessed of a firearm.

As for who said you think a child isn't capable of a responsible decision with regards to sex, you've taken the decision out of their hands by making it illegal, and exactly the same goes for their driving too. In what way can a child be capable of making a responsible decision about either in America when there's no decision available to be made? America makes those issues illegal because it recognizes that children are incapable of making a responsible decision about either. When they kill, though, that's taken by the court to be a responsible decision.

Would you like to explain why the entire rest of the world (Somalia excluded) is wrong in rejecting life sentences without parole for children, and that the alternate view of America as extremist is false?

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:19 pm

CARLA;1352094 wrote: No confusion on my part you do the crime, you do the time. Who said we think a child isn't capable of a responsible decision with regards to sex, or driving. Not sure where you get your info but don't put lables on us, when you don't live here and most of your information is hearsay.

So what is the age of consent in the United States? Statutory rape is, I believe, the legal term for sex with someone under the age of consent in the states? What age so you have to be to get a driving licence in the states? I didn't think in either case it was as young as eleven. In the UK it wouldn't be an issue he would be tried as a child.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:05 pm

RAPE 18 years of age, Driving is not allowed on your own till your 18 years of age. You can apply for a provisional drivers licence at 15 1/2 with parents permission and have completed the written and behind the will test, you still can't drive any where unless someone over the age of 21 is in the car and until your 18 you can't transport anyone in your car.

In the UK he wouldn't have a specially designed gun given to him by his father. I don't think he should be tried as an adult either but he committed a crime that left a women and her unborn fullterm child dead.

I have read so really horrible cases where you people commit awful crimes in the UK

Post by **spot** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:24 pm

So he's not old enough to drive and he's not old enough to choose to have sex, because he's below the age at which he is held to be responsible enough to make those decisions. And yet you insist a crime's been committed and he should be tried for it. I don't understand how you can share both those points of view inside one head. You seem to be rejecting the entire concept of "child". Is there any age at all below which you'd not prosecute someone for deliberately pulling a trigger intending to kill, and causing a death? A six year old, for example?

The question I'm headed back to is why is it only the USA (and, obscurely, Somalia) out of all the countries in the world that feel the need to impose life sentences with no possibility of parole on children, while in (for example) Sweden the same child with the same history as this thread's discussing wouldn't go near a courtroom, they'd be counseled and healed. The difference in approach is unbridgeable and they can't possibly both be right.

koan · Post by **koan** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:33 pm

He's apparently not really understanding what "life sentence" means at the moment in terms of the punishment he's facing. He's 13 now. If he doesn't comprehend "life sentence" how could he understand what ending a life meant at 11?

They see death in movies then the dead actor appears in another film next year.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:40 pm

Valid point either way he need some help. Most 11 year olds I know to include my granddaughter have a knowledge of life and death so I don't buy him not knowing life, death, and what a life sentence means. He knew how to load the gun, place on the back of the women's head and blow her brains out.

Post by **spot** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:42 pm

CARLA;1352117 wrote: He knew how to load the gun, place on the back of the women's head and blow her brains out.
That's what life in a TV culture means, Carla. It's another form of child abuse. It's equally true of that six year old I mentioned too. You'd try him as well, would you?

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:05 pm

I wouldn't try a 6 year old just get him or her help and pray that as an adult he/she might make it. This is as much the fathers fault as the childs as I see it who gives an 11 year old kid their own specially designed gun to use, it should have been locked.

I agree TV culture is an issue but if given the proper guidence from adults kids can and do know right from wrong regardless of all the in your face culture they are faced with now.

I have been around young people all my adult life as a coach for soccer, baseball and computer training and have never had one turn on me, or not grow up to be good citizens.

Post by **spot** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:10 pm

CARLA;1352120 wrote: I agree TV culture is an issue but if given the proper guidence from adults kids can and do know right from wrong regardless of all the in your face culture they are faced with now. And if they don't get the proper guidance from adults? It's still their responsibility, they're still liable to the penalty of the court?

America is the only country in the world (besides Somalia) which imposes life sentences without the possibility of parole on children. That's the chief point of the original post, it's still something you've not gone near. Is the US (and Somalia) the only country to have got it right, or is the US (and Somalia) extremist?

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:27 pm

We are the only one but you are correct we have the largest number of under 18 serving life sentences. Most never server that they get out in 25 year or less.

Children and teenagers under 18

Like other areas of criminal law, sentences handed to minors may differ from those given to legal adults. About a dozen countries worldwide allow for minors to be given lifetime sentences that have no provision for eventual release. Of these, only some — South Africa, Israel, Tanzania, and the United States — actually have minors serving such sentences, according to a 2005 joint study by Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International. Although South Africa does allow life imprisonment for children below 18 years of age, it is not without the possibility of release. In terms of parole laws, a person sentenced to life will be eligible for parole after serving 25 years. Of these, the United States has by far the largest number of people serving life sentences for crimes they committed as minors: 9,700, of which 2,200 are without the possibility of parole, as of October 2005. Only 12 other juvenile courts have such sentences in the rest of the world.[1][2]

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:59 pm

WE have a thing here of "Her majestys' pleasure" . Children are cared for by the State until they are okay.

I'm just wondering about the statement, "He knew how to load the gun, place on the back of the women's head and blow her brains out."

11 year olds also have grand designs and plans when they plan on running away from home. But of course we know it's just fantacy. Adn the same in this instance The child didn't like a situation And wanted the situation to end ................popular culture in America gave him the plan and fantastical designs of how to do it .

It's still an 11 year old thing to do. Quite normal in fact, under extreme circumstances . We don't know how this boy has been treated by either of his parents or by the woman he shot . Something went snap.

Hhhmmmmm........."I have been around young people all my adult life as a coach for soccer, baseball and computer training and have never had one turn on me, or not grow up to be good citizens. "

So you know every single one of them who has been sexually or physically abused? Have parents that might put things in their heads .

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:19 pm

I agree with everything you say Fuzzy there was something else going on here of course. His parents or lack their of are to blame as I see it. Sure he fell through the cracks someone probably noticed some sort of behavior and said nothing. No I don't know every kid who was sexually abuses thats not a fair statement to make.

I have know troubled kids that have been abused, beaten, left or just ignored if someone is paying attention they will hopefully get the help they need.

I diagree with you that shooting another human being is a normal thing for a kid to do if they want to get rid of a situation. How many kids do you know that have blown someones brains out? Sure as kids and adults we say man I wish so and so was dead in the heat of things. How many of us have access to a gun. This kids father had a special gun designed for him to use.

WE have a thing here of "Her majestys' pleasure" . Children are cared for by the State until they are okay.

I'm just wondering about the statement, "He knew how to load the gun, place on the back of the women's head and blow her brains out."

11 year olds also have grand designs and plans when they plan on running away from home. But of course we know it's just fantacy. Adn the same in this instance The child didn't like a situation And wanted the situation to end ................popular culture in America gave him the plan and fantastical designs of how to do it .

It's still an 11 year old thing to do. Quite normal in fact, under extreme circumstances . We don't know how this boy has been treated by either of his parents or by the woman he shot . Something went snap.

Hhhmmmmm........."I have been around young people all my adult life as a coach for soccer, baseball and computer training and have never had one turn on me, or not grow up to be good citizens. "

So you know every single one of them who has been sexually or physically abused? Have parents that might put things in their heads .

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:45 am

How many kids do you know who have lashed out either at parents or siblings - I have a nephew who swung an axe at his big brother who, quite rightly, thought he shouldn't be playing with his dad's axe and tried to take it off him. Luckily not much damage was done and now it is a funny story they both laugh about but it could so easily have been a tragedy. If this kid hadn't had access to a gun he probably wouldn't have killed his stepmother.

I have read so really horrible cases where you people commit awful crimes in the UK

Very true, but we tend not to have the same double standards, child when it suits, fully responsible adult who needs taught a serious lesson when that suits. We stopped birching teenagers and sending them to borstal for the very simple reason that it didn't work, all you did was turn them in to hardened criminals. We would have our own columbine shootings and the like but we don't sell lethal weapons to children.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:59 am

That's a good point. It would be one thing if the decision were based on a test of the child's maturity level, intelligence, etc, but it's usually based on the severity of the crime, which if anything only goes toward proving level of sanity.