Att: Koan
How can you equate the space above your head to the space high up in the sky? Do you really think, that's the same thing? And the sky doesn't meet the earth. The two do not touch.
Ted:
How can you declare something to be a myth or fable without elaborating?
The Word
The Word
eword
Try looking up the actual meaning of myth. It needs no elaboration. Think man think.
Shalom
Ted
Try looking up the actual meaning of myth. It needs no elaboration. Think man think.
Shalom
Ted
The Word
koan
Personally I couldn't care less if anyone believes as I do but I do get a little testy when I see what I consider a profoundly powerful faith bastardized.
Shalom'
Ted
Personally I couldn't care less if anyone believes as I do but I do get a little testy when I see what I consider a profoundly powerful faith bastardized.
Shalom'
Ted
The Word
well, eword's pov gives Christianity a bad name.
That concerns me.
That concerns me.
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littleCJelkton
- Posts: 1215
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
The Word
Is the Word on here what the guy at the end of this clip keeps referring to he says Word like 8x in the episode
The Word
Att: Ted
If you are going to seriously attempt to discredit my position, that is supported by evidence or scripture, you will have to do more than claim, that it 'needs no elaboration'. Why should anyone believe you and not me?
Your emotional attachment to whatever you believe, should not blind you to reject positions, that are backed by scripture, without providing scripture and explaining, why you reject those positions.
Att: Koan
You nor I can not exactly pin point, where the sky ends or starts. But we both can agree, that the sky is not and no where near immediately above your head.
Just because you do not know about something doesn't make it false.
If you are going to seriously attempt to discredit my position, that is supported by evidence or scripture, you will have to do more than claim, that it 'needs no elaboration'. Why should anyone believe you and not me?
Your emotional attachment to whatever you believe, should not blind you to reject positions, that are backed by scripture, without providing scripture and explaining, why you reject those positions.
Att: Koan
You nor I can not exactly pin point, where the sky ends or starts. But we both can agree, that the sky is not and no where near immediately above your head.
Just because you do not know about something doesn't make it false.
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littleCJelkton
- Posts: 1215
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
The Word
Sky:
Since the Troposhere is the first layer of the Sky(the earth's Atmosphere), and that layer begins where the earth end's then the sky does begin at your head. Though do entertain us with how your 2000-3000 year old stories differ. Wait don't tell me there is a unseen God layer between the sky an earth.
Since the Troposhere is the first layer of the Sky(the earth's Atmosphere), and that layer begins where the earth end's then the sky does begin at your head. Though do entertain us with how your 2000-3000 year old stories differ. Wait don't tell me there is a unseen God layer between the sky an earth.
The Word
eword
Have you looked up the meaning of myth yet? Such a move is part of self education using authorities.
As far a scripture goes it is well known in logic and common sense that an object is not allowed to affirm itself. If the Bible claims to be the word of God and that makes it so then I can say I am God and that should make it so.
Look up the meaning of myth!
Shalom
Ted
Have you looked up the meaning of myth yet? Such a move is part of self education using authorities.
As far a scripture goes it is well known in logic and common sense that an object is not allowed to affirm itself. If the Bible claims to be the word of God and that makes it so then I can say I am God and that should make it so.
Look up the meaning of myth!
Shalom
Ted
The Word
A lot of the "how to" moral advice offered in the Bible is simplistic, contradictory, and/or incomplete. For example suppose you are forced to choose between violating two Biblical moral principles. Here's a couple simple cases to consider:
1. Suppose you are at the switch of a train track. There's a fork in the track, and you can change the path of the train. The train is currently headed towards killing 10 people. You can pull the level and save the 10 people, but it will kill one person on the other track. Do you kill the 1 to save the 10? Or is non-action resulting in ten deaths not as bad as direct action leading to one death?
1.a. if you let the 10 die, what if this number is ten thousand? ten million?
1.b, if you save the 10, might we harvest the organs of one person to save the lives of several?
2. You must either lie about a person's location or allow them to be discovered and killed? How does the Bible resolve this case? What is worse, lying or passive killing?
3. Also, some of the principles are just really ridiculous and outdated. Suppose my neighbor trims the edges of his beard, eats ham, and wears fabrics made of blended materials. Do I kill him for his abominations (as the Bible commands)?
1. Suppose you are at the switch of a train track. There's a fork in the track, and you can change the path of the train. The train is currently headed towards killing 10 people. You can pull the level and save the 10 people, but it will kill one person on the other track. Do you kill the 1 to save the 10? Or is non-action resulting in ten deaths not as bad as direct action leading to one death?
1.a. if you let the 10 die, what if this number is ten thousand? ten million?
1.b, if you save the 10, might we harvest the organs of one person to save the lives of several?
2. You must either lie about a person's location or allow them to be discovered and killed? How does the Bible resolve this case? What is worse, lying or passive killing?
3. Also, some of the principles are just really ridiculous and outdated. Suppose my neighbor trims the edges of his beard, eats ham, and wears fabrics made of blended materials. Do I kill him for his abominations (as the Bible commands)?
The Word
Neat questions. That is why the Bible must be reinterpreted for each new generation (era). The Bible gives general principles that fit the culture of the day.
As for eating ham or shell fish or wearing clothing made of more than one fiber etc., once again it fit the culture of the day. Many of the Jewish faith still hold to those today but with a more enlightened mind. They don't kill folks for their "transgressions. In fact as in most of the great faiths of the world there is no one Christianity or one Buddhism etc.
This does raise an interesting question though. There are 612-613 of those rules in Leviticus. I have never heard anyone justify how one can pick one of that lot and say it must be followed and ignore the rest. Whenever I ask that question of the fundamentalists they normally evade the question. In spite of the fact that they deny picking and choosing that is precisely what they do.
Shalom
Ted
As for eating ham or shell fish or wearing clothing made of more than one fiber etc., once again it fit the culture of the day. Many of the Jewish faith still hold to those today but with a more enlightened mind. They don't kill folks for their "transgressions. In fact as in most of the great faiths of the world there is no one Christianity or one Buddhism etc.
This does raise an interesting question though. There are 612-613 of those rules in Leviticus. I have never heard anyone justify how one can pick one of that lot and say it must be followed and ignore the rest. Whenever I ask that question of the fundamentalists they normally evade the question. In spite of the fact that they deny picking and choosing that is precisely what they do.
Shalom
Ted
The Word
Neat questions. That is why the Bible must be reinterpreted for each new generation (era). The Bible gives general principles that fit the culture of the day.
As for eating ham or shell fish or wearing clothing made of more than one fiber etc., once again it fit the culture of the day. Many of the Jewish faith still hold to those today but with a more enlightened mind. They don't kill folks for their "transgressions. In fact as in most of the great faiths of the world there is no one Christianity or one Buddhism etc.
This does raise an interesting question though. There are 612-613 of those rules in Leviticus. I have never heard anyone justify how one can pick one of that lot and say it must be followed and ignore the rest. Whenever I ask that question of the fundamentalists they normally evade the question. In spite of the fact that they deny picking and choosing that is precisely what they do.
Shalom
Ted
As for eating ham or shell fish or wearing clothing made of more than one fiber etc., once again it fit the culture of the day. Many of the Jewish faith still hold to those today but with a more enlightened mind. They don't kill folks for their "transgressions. In fact as in most of the great faiths of the world there is no one Christianity or one Buddhism etc.
This does raise an interesting question though. There are 612-613 of those rules in Leviticus. I have never heard anyone justify how one can pick one of that lot and say it must be followed and ignore the rest. Whenever I ask that question of the fundamentalists they normally evade the question. In spite of the fact that they deny picking and choosing that is precisely what they do.
Shalom
Ted
The Word
Sorry about the double post. Computer glitch????
Shalom
Ted
Shalom
Ted
The Word
Att: LittleCJelkton
Impressive diagram! You really got technical. The bible doesn't provide any record, of how high this tower was or which level of the atmosphere it reached. But in everyday language, as opposed to scientific jargon, people do not refer to the space, immediately above them as the sky. How many times in your life, have you heard people refering to the space immediately above them as the sky or that their head was touching the sky? So, we can safely conclude, that the sky refered to in the bible, is not the space immediately above anyone's head.
Att: Ted
The definition of myth doesn't apply to the bible. If you contend, that parts of the bible are myth, then you have to also contend, that God is part myth, a position I reject, because you can not separate God from his word.
Ephesians 2:12(AMP) - Remember, that you(gentiles) were at that time separated from christ, excluded from all part in him, utterly outlawed from the rights of Israel as a nation, and strangers with no share in the sacred compacts of the messianic promise, with no knowledge of or right in God's agreements, his covenants. And you had no hope, no promise; you were in the world without God.
Originally Jesus, the savior was only promised to the Jews. These 600 or so rules about food, clothing, animal sacrifice and so forth were only given to the Jews and only applied to the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant was only between God and the Jews. All gentiles or non Jews were excluded from it and were never required to keep or obey anthing in the law.
John 19:30(AMP) - When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, it is finished!(the old covenant) And he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
With the death of Jesus the Abrahamic or old covenant with the priesthood and it's rules, was finished and a new covenant was coming in.
Genesis 49:10(AMP) - The scepter or lawgiver shall not depart from Juda, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until Shiloh, the messiah comes.....
The Law and it's rules under the Old Covenant were only going to stay in force, until Jesus came. And Jesus did not follow those rules, because they were only for the period before his arrival.
Galatians 3:24(AMP) - The law served to us Jews as our trainer, our guardian, our guide to Christ......
The law and it's rules, simply prepared the people for the coming of Christ, and after that it was no longer needed. It served it's intended purpose.
Romans 3:20(AMP) - For the real function of the law is to make men recognize and be conscious of sin.
The Law could not save anyone, it just set the stage for the savior.
Att: yaaarrrgg
It seems you are inventing other debates within the current debate, therefore removing the focus on the current debate. How does anyone respond to debates within a debate? Why don't you start another thread with a different topic?
Impressive diagram! You really got technical. The bible doesn't provide any record, of how high this tower was or which level of the atmosphere it reached. But in everyday language, as opposed to scientific jargon, people do not refer to the space, immediately above them as the sky. How many times in your life, have you heard people refering to the space immediately above them as the sky or that their head was touching the sky? So, we can safely conclude, that the sky refered to in the bible, is not the space immediately above anyone's head.
Att: Ted
The definition of myth doesn't apply to the bible. If you contend, that parts of the bible are myth, then you have to also contend, that God is part myth, a position I reject, because you can not separate God from his word.
Ephesians 2:12(AMP) - Remember, that you(gentiles) were at that time separated from christ, excluded from all part in him, utterly outlawed from the rights of Israel as a nation, and strangers with no share in the sacred compacts of the messianic promise, with no knowledge of or right in God's agreements, his covenants. And you had no hope, no promise; you were in the world without God.
Originally Jesus, the savior was only promised to the Jews. These 600 or so rules about food, clothing, animal sacrifice and so forth were only given to the Jews and only applied to the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant was only between God and the Jews. All gentiles or non Jews were excluded from it and were never required to keep or obey anthing in the law.
John 19:30(AMP) - When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, it is finished!(the old covenant) And he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
With the death of Jesus the Abrahamic or old covenant with the priesthood and it's rules, was finished and a new covenant was coming in.
Genesis 49:10(AMP) - The scepter or lawgiver shall not depart from Juda, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until Shiloh, the messiah comes.....
The Law and it's rules under the Old Covenant were only going to stay in force, until Jesus came. And Jesus did not follow those rules, because they were only for the period before his arrival.
Galatians 3:24(AMP) - The law served to us Jews as our trainer, our guardian, our guide to Christ......
The law and it's rules, simply prepared the people for the coming of Christ, and after that it was no longer needed. It served it's intended purpose.
Romans 3:20(AMP) - For the real function of the law is to make men recognize and be conscious of sin.
The Law could not save anyone, it just set the stage for the savior.
Att: yaaarrrgg
It seems you are inventing other debates within the current debate, therefore removing the focus on the current debate. How does anyone respond to debates within a debate? Why don't you start another thread with a different topic?
The Word
My 14 year old laughed when I told her someone didn't think the sky met the earth. How old are you?
The Word
eword
Myth in Biblical history means a story created to tell or present a truth. That is what the creation stories are, myth.
The Bible in and of itself is not the word of God. That phrase rightly belongs to the "Word made flesh". For Christians the Bible becomes the word of God because God speaks to us through the myths, legends, poetry etc. To make the book the Bible the word of God is idolatry. You are making the Bible into something it was never intended to be.
As for God whenever we speak of the Divine we use metaphor because humans lack any language with which to come to grips with the Divine. Your approach is nothing more than an attempt to limit God. Now go and do some bona fide research. You've ignored most of what I've said and you have not responded. You hear only what you choose to hear. However since you've made up your mind far be it from me to confuse you with the facts.
Shalom
Ted
Myth in Biblical history means a story created to tell or present a truth. That is what the creation stories are, myth.
The Bible in and of itself is not the word of God. That phrase rightly belongs to the "Word made flesh". For Christians the Bible becomes the word of God because God speaks to us through the myths, legends, poetry etc. To make the book the Bible the word of God is idolatry. You are making the Bible into something it was never intended to be.
As for God whenever we speak of the Divine we use metaphor because humans lack any language with which to come to grips with the Divine. Your approach is nothing more than an attempt to limit God. Now go and do some bona fide research. You've ignored most of what I've said and you have not responded. You hear only what you choose to hear. However since you've made up your mind far be it from me to confuse you with the facts.
Shalom
Ted
The Word
eword
Myth in Biblical history means a story created to tell or present a truth. That is what the creation stories are, myth.
The Bible in and of itself is not the word of God. That phrase rightly belongs to the "Word made flesh". For Christians the Bible becomes the word of God because God speaks to us through the myths, legends, poetry etc. To make the book the Bible the word of God is idolatry. You are making the Bible into something it was never intended to be.
As for God whenever we speak of the Divine we use metaphor because humans lack any language with which to come to grips with the Divine. Your approach is nothing more than an attempt to limit God. Now go and do some bona fide research. You've ignored most of what I've said and you have not responded. You hear only what you choose to hear. However since you've made up your mind far be it from me to confuse you with the facts.
Shalom
Ted
Myth in Biblical history means a story created to tell or present a truth. That is what the creation stories are, myth.
The Bible in and of itself is not the word of God. That phrase rightly belongs to the "Word made flesh". For Christians the Bible becomes the word of God because God speaks to us through the myths, legends, poetry etc. To make the book the Bible the word of God is idolatry. You are making the Bible into something it was never intended to be.
As for God whenever we speak of the Divine we use metaphor because humans lack any language with which to come to grips with the Divine. Your approach is nothing more than an attempt to limit God. Now go and do some bona fide research. You've ignored most of what I've said and you have not responded. You hear only what you choose to hear. However since you've made up your mind far be it from me to confuse you with the facts.
Shalom
Ted
The Word
eword, I was actually focusing on the OP where you say the Bible is a how-to manual:
The Bible is really a 'how to' manual. Besides teaching us how to get saved, it instructs us, how to get healed, how to be protected, how to live a long life and so on.
I think the thread has meandered a bit. I'm asking what the "how-to manual" would say in these difficult ethical cases. What would it tell you to do? What's the right choice?
Unfortunately as a how-to manual it's mostly mute on all but simple one-dimensional ethical problems. And even on specific ethical cases that are addressed, it's still not always good advice:
Leviticus 20:9 “For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.”
Should killing one's mouthy children be regarded as good advice?
The Bible is really a 'how to' manual. Besides teaching us how to get saved, it instructs us, how to get healed, how to be protected, how to live a long life and so on.
I think the thread has meandered a bit. I'm asking what the "how-to manual" would say in these difficult ethical cases. What would it tell you to do? What's the right choice?
Unfortunately as a how-to manual it's mostly mute on all but simple one-dimensional ethical problems. And even on specific ethical cases that are addressed, it's still not always good advice:
Leviticus 20:9 “For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.”
Should killing one's mouthy children be regarded as good advice?
The Word
Nope. You should get the bears to do it for you.
Kings 2 2:23-24
And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
Kings 2 2:23-24
And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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littleCJelkton
- Posts: 1215
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
The Word
eword;1347535 wrote: Att: LittleCJelkton
Impressive diagram! You really got technical. The bible doesn't provide any record, of how high this tower was or which level of the atmosphere it reached. But in everyday language, as opposed to scientific jargon, people do not refer to the space, immediately above them as the sky. How many times in your life, have you heard people refering to the space immediately above them as the sky or that their head was touching the sky? So, we can safely conclude, that the sky refered to in the bible, is not the space immediately above anyone's head.
Most people I know when asked where the sky is they point Up they never mention how high so why do you assume that they don't think its the space immediately above them? Why would I want to conlude anything the bible says? I was just informing you of where the sky is as I know it to be. As I believe you are misinformed on where the sky is. Though that goes to prove that you scripture freaks are more wrapped up about what this or that means in the bible than to learn or know where the sky is, I guess you scripture fanatics must pray to that God of yours alot to help you determine which way is Left, right, forwards, or backwards. Though you may not know that either, you obviously like to talk in circles maybe because that is how you get around when walking, running, driving due to the fact you don't know which direction is which.
Impressive diagram! You really got technical. The bible doesn't provide any record, of how high this tower was or which level of the atmosphere it reached. But in everyday language, as opposed to scientific jargon, people do not refer to the space, immediately above them as the sky. How many times in your life, have you heard people refering to the space immediately above them as the sky or that their head was touching the sky? So, we can safely conclude, that the sky refered to in the bible, is not the space immediately above anyone's head.
Most people I know when asked where the sky is they point Up they never mention how high so why do you assume that they don't think its the space immediately above them? Why would I want to conlude anything the bible says? I was just informing you of where the sky is as I know it to be. As I believe you are misinformed on where the sky is. Though that goes to prove that you scripture freaks are more wrapped up about what this or that means in the bible than to learn or know where the sky is, I guess you scripture fanatics must pray to that God of yours alot to help you determine which way is Left, right, forwards, or backwards. Though you may not know that either, you obviously like to talk in circles maybe because that is how you get around when walking, running, driving due to the fact you don't know which direction is which.
The Word
koan
There is another alternative in Leviticus. If your children are misbehaving you can take them to the city gate and have the elders stone them to death. Though I think the idea of the bears is rather interesting.
Shalom
Ted
There is another alternative in Leviticus. If your children are misbehaving you can take them to the city gate and have the elders stone them to death. Though I think the idea of the bears is rather interesting.
Shalom
Ted
The Word
Att: Ted
You have complained, that I haven't responded to information, from various sources outside the bible, which I have yet to examine. How can I react to something I haven't looked at?
On the other hand, you have claimed, that Jesus was poor, without presenting a single biblical scripture to support your case. But I have presented a number of biblical scriptures to clearly demonstrate, that he wasn't poor.
And you have argued, that the wisemen are fiction, without offering a single biblical scripture to make your argument. For my part, I have presented biblical scripture, to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, that the wisemen did exist.
Att:yaaarrrgg
The bible is a 'how to' manual, in the sense, that it has provided us with so many scriptures, on how to get divne healing, how to get divine protection, how to live long, how to overcome worry, how to overcome prejudice, how to pray and so forth. It instructs us, on how to deal with the common situations or circumstances of life. But it also provides us with enough information, to guide us in dealing with cases it hasn't addressed.
Att: Koan
Mark 11:23(AMP) - God created mankind to operate like him. Whenever God spoke words, sooner or later, whatever he spoke became a reality. Elisha(2 kings 2:23-24) and many other people in the Old Testament, knew and believed, that God had designed them to act like him(Ephesians 5:1) . So, when Elisha believed in his heart and spoke those words, whatever he said had to happen. There are other similar examples.
Att: LittleCJelkton
You can't separate christianity from biblical scriptures. Without biblical scriptures, you don't have christianity. You may call it christianity, but it is something else. You can't remove the legs of a table and expect it to stand.
You have complained, that I haven't responded to information, from various sources outside the bible, which I have yet to examine. How can I react to something I haven't looked at?
On the other hand, you have claimed, that Jesus was poor, without presenting a single biblical scripture to support your case. But I have presented a number of biblical scriptures to clearly demonstrate, that he wasn't poor.
And you have argued, that the wisemen are fiction, without offering a single biblical scripture to make your argument. For my part, I have presented biblical scripture, to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, that the wisemen did exist.
Att:yaaarrrgg
The bible is a 'how to' manual, in the sense, that it has provided us with so many scriptures, on how to get divne healing, how to get divine protection, how to live long, how to overcome worry, how to overcome prejudice, how to pray and so forth. It instructs us, on how to deal with the common situations or circumstances of life. But it also provides us with enough information, to guide us in dealing with cases it hasn't addressed.
Att: Koan
Mark 11:23(AMP) - God created mankind to operate like him. Whenever God spoke words, sooner or later, whatever he spoke became a reality. Elisha(2 kings 2:23-24) and many other people in the Old Testament, knew and believed, that God had designed them to act like him(Ephesians 5:1) . So, when Elisha believed in his heart and spoke those words, whatever he said had to happen. There are other similar examples.
Att: LittleCJelkton
You can't separate christianity from biblical scriptures. Without biblical scriptures, you don't have christianity. You may call it christianity, but it is something else. You can't remove the legs of a table and expect it to stand.
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littleCJelkton
- Posts: 1215
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
The Word
eword;1347642 wrote:
Att: LittleCJelkton
You can't separate christianity from biblical scriptures. Without biblical scriptures, you don't have christianity. You may call it christianity, but it is something else. You can't remove the legs of a table and expect it to stand.
So what does it matter if I debate one or the other? Since I am obviously debating one or the other, or both if you will. What is the point of this "DUHHHHH" statement. You obviously are still talking in circles and going nowhere with your argument so when you figure out where the sky is maybe it will be possible to have a worthwhile conversation with you.
Att: LittleCJelkton
You can't separate christianity from biblical scriptures. Without biblical scriptures, you don't have christianity. You may call it christianity, but it is something else. You can't remove the legs of a table and expect it to stand.
So what does it matter if I debate one or the other? Since I am obviously debating one or the other, or both if you will. What is the point of this "DUHHHHH" statement. You obviously are still talking in circles and going nowhere with your argument so when you figure out where the sky is maybe it will be possible to have a worthwhile conversation with you.
The Word
eword;1347642 wrote:
Att:yaaarrrgg
The bible is a 'how to' manual, in the sense, that it has provided us with so many scriptures, on how to get divne healing, how to get divine protection, how to live long, how to overcome worry, how to overcome prejudice, how to pray and so forth. It instructs us, on how to deal with the common situations or circumstances of life. But it also provides us with enough information, to guide us in dealing with cases it hasn't addressed.
I'm granting that it's a how-to manual. I'm wondering specifically what it says on resolving the few ethical dilemmas I've mentioned. What does it say to do? Or can we not resolve these ethical dilemmas by referring to the Bible? If we can't get a specific answer here, the how-to manual is at best incomplete.
Also, for child rearing advice, should we follow the advice to kill mouthy children? Or should we only follow the advice that makes sense (using our own brains to make this determination)? If the latter is the case, some of the advice in the how-to manual out-of-date and horribly wrong by today's standards.
Att:yaaarrrgg
The bible is a 'how to' manual, in the sense, that it has provided us with so many scriptures, on how to get divne healing, how to get divine protection, how to live long, how to overcome worry, how to overcome prejudice, how to pray and so forth. It instructs us, on how to deal with the common situations or circumstances of life. But it also provides us with enough information, to guide us in dealing with cases it hasn't addressed.
I'm granting that it's a how-to manual. I'm wondering specifically what it says on resolving the few ethical dilemmas I've mentioned. What does it say to do? Or can we not resolve these ethical dilemmas by referring to the Bible? If we can't get a specific answer here, the how-to manual is at best incomplete.
Also, for child rearing advice, should we follow the advice to kill mouthy children? Or should we only follow the advice that makes sense (using our own brains to make this determination)? If the latter is the case, some of the advice in the how-to manual out-of-date and horribly wrong by today's standards.
The Word
Att: yaaarrrgg
May you provide the scripture or scriptures, that talk about killing mouthy children, so I can examine the context, in which that statement was made.
May you provide the scripture or scriptures, that talk about killing mouthy children, so I can examine the context, in which that statement was made.
The Word
eword;1347782 wrote: Att: yaaarrrgg
May you provide the scripture or scriptures, that talk about killing mouthy children, so I can examine the context, in which that statement was made.
I had posted the verse number in the previous post. Here it is again:
Leviticus 20:9 “For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.”
For context, it's sandwiched between verses on idolatry and adultery (both of which require death as well).
May you provide the scripture or scriptures, that talk about killing mouthy children, so I can examine the context, in which that statement was made.
I had posted the verse number in the previous post. Here it is again:
Leviticus 20:9 “For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.”
For context, it's sandwiched between verses on idolatry and adultery (both of which require death as well).
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littleCJelkton
- Posts: 1215
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
The Word
eword
The church down through the centuries has had 3 major sources of authority: The Bible, Tradition, Common sense.
I do not hold the Bible at the same level as you do. I find that extremely idolatrous.
You could just as easily looked up the Leviticus reference but oh well. I am not going to do your legwork for you. Do your research and study. You haven't had time to look up the references I gave you. Gee, that's tough. I would suggest you have no intentions of doing so.
Until this "gentleman!" gets serious about discussion I'm not going to play his game.
Have a good one.
Shalom
Ted
The church down through the centuries has had 3 major sources of authority: The Bible, Tradition, Common sense.
I do not hold the Bible at the same level as you do. I find that extremely idolatrous.
You could just as easily looked up the Leviticus reference but oh well. I am not going to do your legwork for you. Do your research and study. You haven't had time to look up the references I gave you. Gee, that's tough. I would suggest you have no intentions of doing so.
Until this "gentleman!" gets serious about discussion I'm not going to play his game.
Have a good one.
Shalom
Ted
The Word
Think I got the gist of this thread. Provide a quote so it can be rewritten to mesh with a previously planned script and if it doesn't make sense just accept that God had to do it. Forget logic, science, any semblance of reality, and especially don't use words they way the dictionary intends them.
So long. Thanks for all fish.
So long. Thanks for all fish.
The Word
Att: yaaarrrgg
Numbers 22:12(AMP) - And God said to Balaam, you shall not go with them; you shall not curse the people(Israelites), for they are blessed.
According to Genesis 1:26, mankind was created to operate like God. The people in the Old Testament knew and believed, that they could curse or bless, with their words and whatever they said would come to pass. They believed, that words aren't just words, that their words could change a situation for better or worse. And notice, that an evil man like Balaam, could pronounce a curse or blessing. If a mere human, like Balaam wasn't capable of influencing situations or circumstances, with his words, why did God bother to stop him?
Numbers 22:6(AMP) - Now come, I(Balak) beg you(Balaam), curse this people(Israelites) for me, for they are too powerful for me........Whom you bless is blessed, and whom you curse is cursed.
If the words of a human being, like Balaam could not bring a curse or blessing on a situation, why did Balak, king of the Moab, ask Balaam to curse the Israelites? And Balak said, whomever Balaam cursed was cursed and whomever he blessed was blessed. Does this mean, balaam had cursed and blessed people before, and had a record to prove it?
Ecclesiates 10:20(AMP) - Curse not the king, no, not even in your thoughts...........
Why did the people under the Old Covenant, take the pronouncing of blessings or curses seriously? Was it because, whoever was cursed , was really cursed and whoever was blessed, was really blessed, and they saw the results?
Luke 6:27-28(NKJV) - ...bless those, who curse you, and pray for those who.....
Why would Jesus tell, people to bless those who curse them, if people didn't have the ability to bless? And if People have the ability to bless, do they also have the ability to curse?
Leviticus 20:9(AMP) - Everyone who curses his father or mother shall surely be put to death..
Why was the cursing of parents, by their children severely punished? Was it because their cursing came true? And if people under the Old Covenant, which wasn't as good as the New covenant, could pronounce blessings or curses, can people under the new and improved covenant do the same?
Att: Ted
Mark 7:9(NIV) - And he(Jesus) said to them, you have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God, in order to observe your own tradions.
Colossians 2:8(AMP) - See to it, that no one carries you off or makes you captive by so-called philosophy, intellectualism and vain deceit, following human tradition, just crude notions following the rudimentary teachings of the universe and disregarding, the teaching of Christ, the Messiah.
Numbers 22:12(AMP) - And God said to Balaam, you shall not go with them; you shall not curse the people(Israelites), for they are blessed.
According to Genesis 1:26, mankind was created to operate like God. The people in the Old Testament knew and believed, that they could curse or bless, with their words and whatever they said would come to pass. They believed, that words aren't just words, that their words could change a situation for better or worse. And notice, that an evil man like Balaam, could pronounce a curse or blessing. If a mere human, like Balaam wasn't capable of influencing situations or circumstances, with his words, why did God bother to stop him?
Numbers 22:6(AMP) - Now come, I(Balak) beg you(Balaam), curse this people(Israelites) for me, for they are too powerful for me........Whom you bless is blessed, and whom you curse is cursed.
If the words of a human being, like Balaam could not bring a curse or blessing on a situation, why did Balak, king of the Moab, ask Balaam to curse the Israelites? And Balak said, whomever Balaam cursed was cursed and whomever he blessed was blessed. Does this mean, balaam had cursed and blessed people before, and had a record to prove it?
Ecclesiates 10:20(AMP) - Curse not the king, no, not even in your thoughts...........
Why did the people under the Old Covenant, take the pronouncing of blessings or curses seriously? Was it because, whoever was cursed , was really cursed and whoever was blessed, was really blessed, and they saw the results?
Luke 6:27-28(NKJV) - ...bless those, who curse you, and pray for those who.....
Why would Jesus tell, people to bless those who curse them, if people didn't have the ability to bless? And if People have the ability to bless, do they also have the ability to curse?
Leviticus 20:9(AMP) - Everyone who curses his father or mother shall surely be put to death..
Why was the cursing of parents, by their children severely punished? Was it because their cursing came true? And if people under the Old Covenant, which wasn't as good as the New covenant, could pronounce blessings or curses, can people under the new and improved covenant do the same?
Att: Ted
Mark 7:9(NIV) - And he(Jesus) said to them, you have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God, in order to observe your own tradions.
Colossians 2:8(AMP) - See to it, that no one carries you off or makes you captive by so-called philosophy, intellectualism and vain deceit, following human tradition, just crude notions following the rudimentary teachings of the universe and disregarding, the teaching of Christ, the Messiah.
The Word
eword;1348148 wrote:
Why was the cursing of parents, by their children severely punished?
Was it because their cursing came true?
No. It was because people that lived a long time ago sometimes had stupid ideas. They weren't infallible.
eword;1348148 wrote:
And if people under the Old Covenant, which wasn't as good as the New covenant, could pronounce blessings or curses, can people under the new and improved covenant do the same?
Why are you asking me? I thought your how to manual could decide this case for us. Clearly you think that killing one's children for this offense is idiotic, but you feel compelled to make excuses for this behavior. But on your logic, I'd be equally justified in killing anyone's child, if I felt threatened by their magic voodoo powers.
Why was the cursing of parents, by their children severely punished?
Was it because their cursing came true?
No. It was because people that lived a long time ago sometimes had stupid ideas. They weren't infallible.
eword;1348148 wrote:
And if people under the Old Covenant, which wasn't as good as the New covenant, could pronounce blessings or curses, can people under the new and improved covenant do the same?
Why are you asking me? I thought your how to manual could decide this case for us. Clearly you think that killing one's children for this offense is idiotic, but you feel compelled to make excuses for this behavior. But on your logic, I'd be equally justified in killing anyone's child, if I felt threatened by their magic voodoo powers.
The Word
eword
That quote in Mark 7:9 did not come from the historical Jesus it was a later add in. D. Cross "The Historical Jesus; An Eastern Mediterranean Jewish Peasant"
Paul it certainly entitled to his opinion. BTW are you anti academic research both in Biblical history and regular history? Are you anti intellectual?
Shalom
Ted
That quote in Mark 7:9 did not come from the historical Jesus it was a later add in. D. Cross "The Historical Jesus; An Eastern Mediterranean Jewish Peasant"
Paul it certainly entitled to his opinion. BTW are you anti academic research both in Biblical history and regular history? Are you anti intellectual?
Shalom
Ted
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littleCJelkton
- Posts: 1215
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
The Word
yaaarrrgg;1348225 wrote: No. It was because people that lived a long time ago sometimes had stupid ideas. They weren't infallible.
Why are you asking me? I thought your how to manual could decide this case for us. Clearly you think that killing one's children for this offense is idiotic, but you feel compelled to make excuses for this behavior. But on your logic, I'd be equally justified in killing anyone's child, if I felt threatened by their magic voodoo powers.
I love it
VOODOO Powers at work Courtesy of Screamin Jay Hawkins
Why are you asking me? I thought your how to manual could decide this case for us. Clearly you think that killing one's children for this offense is idiotic, but you feel compelled to make excuses for this behavior. But on your logic, I'd be equally justified in killing anyone's child, if I felt threatened by their magic voodoo powers.
I love it
VOODOO Powers at work Courtesy of Screamin Jay Hawkins