Bryn Mawr;1343945 wrote: Ok, let's swap, one for one.
Start with the question you've been dodging :-
Who formulated the "Law of Biogenesis" and, more importantly, who proved it and how?
Now, what's your question?
The law of biogenesis was formulated by Louis Pasteur. He used microbiology to prove it, and many consider him the father of microbiology.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1343948 wrote: Post #237 has my unanswered question.
Peace.Perhaps Bryn can figure out a way to satisfactorily answer this question to your understanding because: A) the way it is posed makes little sense, and B) more so by the person asking it. At the very least a basic understanding and acceptance of Evolutionary Theory must already have been laid to comprehend the answer. This is like a 2nd grader telling the teacher that he wants to skip basic math and jump directly into algebra, it usually cannot be done without first laying the foundation.
But Bryn is a smart person. I'm anxiously awaiting the outcome.
Peace.Perhaps Bryn can figure out a way to satisfactorily answer this question to your understanding because: A) the way it is posed makes little sense, and B) more so by the person asking it. At the very least a basic understanding and acceptance of Evolutionary Theory must already have been laid to comprehend the answer. This is like a 2nd grader telling the teacher that he wants to skip basic math and jump directly into algebra, it usually cannot be done without first laying the foundation.
But Bryn is a smart person. I'm anxiously awaiting the outcome.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1343948 wrote: Post #237 has my unanswered question.
Peace.
That would be :-
Mickiel;1343797 wrote: Again I disagree, and give the example of Consciousness. I repeat, evolution cannot produce Consciousness. Where can this subjective experience which we introspect on, this constant companion of host of associations, hopes, fears, affections, knowledges, colors, smells, toothaches, thrills, tickles, pleasures, distresses, and desires-- where AND how in evolution could all this wonderful tapestry of inner experience have evolved? How can we derive this inwardness out of mere matter? And if so, When? Answer me that.
Peace.
Which, as I said in post #241 :-
Bryn Mawr;1343807 wrote: I already did - you ignored my comments
That post referred all the way back to post #14 where we first discussed the evolution of conciousness :-
Bryn Mawr;1342864 wrote: Why do you believe that conciousness cannot have evolved?
Conciousness is not an on-off switch, there are gradations and degrees of conciousness which, at some point depending on the observer, moves from non-concious to semi-concious to concious.
Several of the apes have conciousness of self - to a lesser degree than humans it is true but it is there and can be measured.
You state that conciousness can only come from conciousness and claim the evolution of conciousness to be impossible without explaining why.
To which you replied :-
Mickiel;1342898 wrote: I have already explained why, just not to your satisfaction. Consciousness cannot evolve by natural selection. In fact, the cofounder of the theory of evolution, Alfred Russel Wallace, could no longer see continuity in the theory, its discontinuities were terrifying and absolute. In Wallaces own words;" Mans conscious faculties, particularly, could not possibly have been developed by means of the same laws which have determined the progressive development of the organic world in general, and also of mans physical organism.
Wallace felt that the evidence showed that some metaphysical force had directed evolution at three different points; the beginning of life, the beginning of consciousness, and the beginning of civilized culture.
Peace.
And I continued :-
Bryn Mawr;1342908 wrote: You explained nothing, just stated "facts" without evidence.
Neither is the opinion of a nineteenth century philosopher conclusive. He was working at the very beginning of the theory before evidence of the mechanisms involved had been gathered.
You also ignore the points I made :-
Indeed, in post #4 you state outright "apes are not conscious beings". Where do you get that from? Apes have been taught sign language and, whilst their talk is childlike it does show self-awareness.
Also relevant is post #141 :-
Bryn Mawr;1343255 wrote: You work backwards from the complex to the simple. Life worked forwards from the simple to the complex, adding a bit here, dropping a bit there - forever becoming that bit more viable and better able to survive. Over time conditions changed and what was a survival trait at one point in time became a liability and what was a liability became a survival trait. The Earth has not always been as it is now and we would not have survived on Earth as it was in the beginning.
To sum up, self-conciousness is a survival trait like any other and exists in several species to a greater or lesser extent. It could be just the realisation that the reflection on a pool of water is "I" to the full knowledge of who and what "I" means. It can be shown to exist in most of the higher primates and allows a more effective social interaction between members of a group. Along with brain size and intellectual capacity it is selected for as an evolutionary advantage - a creature that knows itself can better know its relationship to its environment and to other members of its social group and can therefore better compete against less aware species. That being the case, greater self-awareness would become one of the criteria used when selecting a mate and would therefore be self-reinforcing.
Peace.
That would be :-
Mickiel;1343797 wrote: Again I disagree, and give the example of Consciousness. I repeat, evolution cannot produce Consciousness. Where can this subjective experience which we introspect on, this constant companion of host of associations, hopes, fears, affections, knowledges, colors, smells, toothaches, thrills, tickles, pleasures, distresses, and desires-- where AND how in evolution could all this wonderful tapestry of inner experience have evolved? How can we derive this inwardness out of mere matter? And if so, When? Answer me that.
Peace.
Which, as I said in post #241 :-
Bryn Mawr;1343807 wrote: I already did - you ignored my comments
That post referred all the way back to post #14 where we first discussed the evolution of conciousness :-
Bryn Mawr;1342864 wrote: Why do you believe that conciousness cannot have evolved?
Conciousness is not an on-off switch, there are gradations and degrees of conciousness which, at some point depending on the observer, moves from non-concious to semi-concious to concious.
Several of the apes have conciousness of self - to a lesser degree than humans it is true but it is there and can be measured.
You state that conciousness can only come from conciousness and claim the evolution of conciousness to be impossible without explaining why.
To which you replied :-
Mickiel;1342898 wrote: I have already explained why, just not to your satisfaction. Consciousness cannot evolve by natural selection. In fact, the cofounder of the theory of evolution, Alfred Russel Wallace, could no longer see continuity in the theory, its discontinuities were terrifying and absolute. In Wallaces own words;" Mans conscious faculties, particularly, could not possibly have been developed by means of the same laws which have determined the progressive development of the organic world in general, and also of mans physical organism.
Wallace felt that the evidence showed that some metaphysical force had directed evolution at three different points; the beginning of life, the beginning of consciousness, and the beginning of civilized culture.
Peace.
And I continued :-
Bryn Mawr;1342908 wrote: You explained nothing, just stated "facts" without evidence.
Neither is the opinion of a nineteenth century philosopher conclusive. He was working at the very beginning of the theory before evidence of the mechanisms involved had been gathered.
You also ignore the points I made :-
Indeed, in post #4 you state outright "apes are not conscious beings". Where do you get that from? Apes have been taught sign language and, whilst their talk is childlike it does show self-awareness.
Also relevant is post #141 :-
Bryn Mawr;1343255 wrote: You work backwards from the complex to the simple. Life worked forwards from the simple to the complex, adding a bit here, dropping a bit there - forever becoming that bit more viable and better able to survive. Over time conditions changed and what was a survival trait at one point in time became a liability and what was a liability became a survival trait. The Earth has not always been as it is now and we would not have survived on Earth as it was in the beginning.
To sum up, self-conciousness is a survival trait like any other and exists in several species to a greater or lesser extent. It could be just the realisation that the reflection on a pool of water is "I" to the full knowledge of who and what "I" means. It can be shown to exist in most of the higher primates and allows a more effective social interaction between members of a group. Along with brain size and intellectual capacity it is selected for as an evolutionary advantage - a creature that knows itself can better know its relationship to its environment and to other members of its social group and can therefore better compete against less aware species. That being the case, greater self-awareness would become one of the criteria used when selecting a mate and would therefore be self-reinforcing.
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1343949 wrote: The law of biogenesis was formulated by Louis Pasteur. He used microbiology to prove it, and many consider him the father of microbiology.
Peace.
Again you go back to the very beginning of scientific research in the field. We have learnt much since then and what was postulated as a law then does not hold now.
Consider the intellectual environment in which Pasteur was working - it was established "fact" that flies sprang fully formed by spontaneous generation from rotting meat. He successfully proved that the perceived wisdom of the age was wrong in that respect but he said nothing about the origins of life because he knew noting of the origins of life - he never researched in that field.
Peace.
Again you go back to the very beginning of scientific research in the field. We have learnt much since then and what was postulated as a law then does not hold now.
Consider the intellectual environment in which Pasteur was working - it was established "fact" that flies sprang fully formed by spontaneous generation from rotting meat. He successfully proved that the perceived wisdom of the age was wrong in that respect but he said nothing about the origins of life because he knew noting of the origins of life - he never researched in that field.
Is God Real?
Good job, Bryn.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Is God Real?
Bryn Mawr wrote:
To sum up, self-conciousness is a survival trait like any other and exists in several species to a greater or lesser extent. It could be just the realisation that the reflection on a pool of water is "I" to the full knowledge of who and what "I" means. It can be shown to exist in most of the higher primates and allows a more effective social interaction between members of a group. Along with brain size and intellectual capacity it is selected for as an evolutionary advantage - a creature that knows itself can better know its relationship to its environment and to other members of its social group and can therefore better compete against less aware species. That being the case, greater self-awareness would become one of the criteria used when selecting a mate and would therefore be self-reinforcing.
This does not answer my question, but thats alright, you cannot answer it. And I understand that. You are not able to answer.
Anyhow, I have enjoyed the debate, now I have go back into proofs of God. I have so many more to cover.
Peace.
To sum up, self-conciousness is a survival trait like any other and exists in several species to a greater or lesser extent. It could be just the realisation that the reflection on a pool of water is "I" to the full knowledge of who and what "I" means. It can be shown to exist in most of the higher primates and allows a more effective social interaction between members of a group. Along with brain size and intellectual capacity it is selected for as an evolutionary advantage - a creature that knows itself can better know its relationship to its environment and to other members of its social group and can therefore better compete against less aware species. That being the case, greater self-awareness would become one of the criteria used when selecting a mate and would therefore be self-reinforcing.
This does not answer my question, but thats alright, you cannot answer it. And I understand that. You are not able to answer.
Anyhow, I have enjoyed the debate, now I have go back into proofs of God. I have so many more to cover.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Bryn Mawr;1343958 wrote: Again you go back to the very beginning of scientific research in the field. We have learnt much since then and what was postulated as a law then does not hold now.
Consider the intellectual environment in which Pasteur was working - it was established "fact" that flies sprang fully formed by spontaneous generation from rotting meat. He successfully proved that the perceived wisdom of the age was wrong in that respect but he said nothing about the origins of life because he knew noting of the origins of life - he never researched in that field.
I disagree, the law of Biogenesis will always hold. Anyhow, you see your way, I see mine.
Good fortune on your journey, you debate with respect, I honor that, its rare.
Peace to you.
Consider the intellectual environment in which Pasteur was working - it was established "fact" that flies sprang fully formed by spontaneous generation from rotting meat. He successfully proved that the perceived wisdom of the age was wrong in that respect but he said nothing about the origins of life because he knew noting of the origins of life - he never researched in that field.
I disagree, the law of Biogenesis will always hold. Anyhow, you see your way, I see mine.
Good fortune on your journey, you debate with respect, I honor that, its rare.
Peace to you.
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1343961 wrote: This does not answer my question, but thats alright, you cannot answer it. And I understand that. You are not able to answer.
Anyhow, I have enjoyed the debate, now I have go back into proofs of God. I have so many more to cover.
Peace.It does answer your question, you just do not understand it. It was a loaded question to begin with because you ask questions on a subject (Evolutionary Theory) that you had already dismissed out of hand.
Anyhow, I have enjoyed the debate, now I have go back into proofs of God. I have so many more to cover.
Peace.It does answer your question, you just do not understand it. It was a loaded question to begin with because you ask questions on a subject (Evolutionary Theory) that you had already dismissed out of hand.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1343961 wrote: This does not answer my question, but thats alright, you cannot answer it. And I understand that. You are not able to answer.
Anyhow, I have enjoyed the debate, now I have go back into proofs of God. I have so many more to cover.
Peace.
OK, instead of just saying "this does not answer my question", show why your question has not been answered. In what way is my answer deficient? Once I know where the disconect is I will fill it.
Anyhow, I have enjoyed the debate, now I have go back into proofs of God. I have so many more to cover.
Peace.
OK, instead of just saying "this does not answer my question", show why your question has not been answered. In what way is my answer deficient? Once I know where the disconect is I will fill it.
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1343963 wrote: I disagree, the law of Biogenesis will always hold. Anyhow, you see your way, I see mine.
Good fortune on your journey, you debate with respect, I honor that, its rare.
Peace to you.Facts do not hinge on whether you agree with them or not, Mickie.
Good fortune on your journey, you debate with respect, I honor that, its rare.
Peace to you.Facts do not hinge on whether you agree with them or not, Mickie.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Is God Real?
Bryn Mawr;1343965 wrote: OK, instead of just saying "this does not answer my question", show why your question has not been answered. In what way is my answer deficient? Once I know where the disconect is I will fill it.
Don't worry about it, I already know there is no answer other than creation.
Peace.
Don't worry about it, I already know there is no answer other than creation.
Peace.
Is God Real?
:wah::wah:
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
-
littleCJelkton
- Posts: 1215
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
Is God Real?
Bryn Mawr;1343818 wrote: Excuse me but that's my line - you are the one refusing to answer my questions.
He does this alot
He does this alot
-
littleCJelkton
- Posts: 1215
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1343939 wrote: Stop all that blabbering and refute my proofs. There are 87 proofs I listed, start with any of them.
Peace.
I will stop when you do.
Peace.
I will stop when you do.
-
littleCJelkton
- Posts: 1215
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1343961 wrote: This does not answer my question, but thats alright, you cannot answer it. And I understand that. You are not able to answer.
Anyhow, I have enjoyed the debate, now I have go back into proofs of God. I have so many more to cover.
Peace.
you would enjoy it you have not debated anything that, just posted opinions, and some quotations from the bible and have yet to present any real evidence for any thing your have said proves god other than, in order to see the proof you have to believe in god but, yet you have also not presented any evidence on how belief in god would present anything more than the subsequent required belief in falsehoods. I beleive it's the extreme zelotism you and others similar display is the reason Christianity is underfire much as is Islam for it's extremist, I am glad that I know enough about christianity and enough christians to know that your approach to spreading the christian faith/opinions is becoming the minorty and am glad it doesn't represent christianity as a whole, Or all the values that are good and just and reasonable and the real reasons christianty was created as a religion, and christianity as a religion all together for that matter might die out.
Anyhow, I have enjoyed the debate, now I have go back into proofs of God. I have so many more to cover.
Peace.
you would enjoy it you have not debated anything that, just posted opinions, and some quotations from the bible and have yet to present any real evidence for any thing your have said proves god other than, in order to see the proof you have to believe in god but, yet you have also not presented any evidence on how belief in god would present anything more than the subsequent required belief in falsehoods. I beleive it's the extreme zelotism you and others similar display is the reason Christianity is underfire much as is Islam for it's extremist, I am glad that I know enough about christianity and enough christians to know that your approach to spreading the christian faith/opinions is becoming the minorty and am glad it doesn't represent christianity as a whole, Or all the values that are good and just and reasonable and the real reasons christianty was created as a religion, and christianity as a religion all together for that matter might die out.
Is God Real?
littleCJelkton;1343987 wrote: you would enjoy it you have not debated anything that, just posted opinions, and some quotations from the bible and have yet to present any real evidence for any thing your have said proves god other than, in order to see the proof you have to believe in god but, yet you have also not presented any evidence on how belief in god would present anything more than the subsequent required belief in falsehoods. I beleive it's the extreme zelotism you and others similar display is the reason Christianity is underfire much as is Islam for it's extremist, I am glad that I know enough about christianity and enough christians to know that your approach to spreading the christian faith/opinions is becoming the minorty and am glad it doesn't represent christianity as a whole, Or all the values that are good and just and reasonable and the real reasons christianty was created as a religion, and christianity as a religion all together for that matter might die out.
I couldcareless about Christianity, I hold no ties with them. And I like my opinions, they make sense to me. I live on them. I have nothing to do with Christian beliefs.
With Atheist either.
Peace.
I couldcareless about Christianity, I hold no ties with them. And I like my opinions, they make sense to me. I live on them. I have nothing to do with Christian beliefs.
With Atheist either.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Happiness is proof of God,
And I will go into that tommorrow.
Peace.
And I will go into that tommorrow.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1343968 wrote: Don't worry about it, I already know there is no answer other than creation.
Peace.
Let me rephrase that :-
Instead of just saying "I win, ha ha" why not stay and have a rational discussion on the matter and see if we can bring it to a conclusion?
Peace.
Let me rephrase that :-
Instead of just saying "I win, ha ha" why not stay and have a rational discussion on the matter and see if we can bring it to a conclusion?
Is God Real?
Bryn Mawr;1344009 wrote: Let me rephrase that :-
Instead of just saying "I win, ha ha" why not stay and have a rational discussion on the matter and see if we can bring it to a conclusion?
There is no conclusion, Atheist, ( or closet Atheist, Agnostics) think as they do, because their supposed to think that way. I think as I do, because I am supposed to think this way. Its an unending merry go round. We have discuissed it long enough. I grow tired of the circles and the attitudes, although yours has been refreshing. You face only me, I face several Atheist who wax disrespectful and insulting, I grow tired of their disrespect. I run off who I can, but some of them are pesky, its their nature.
There will never be a rational conclusion to Atheist-Theist discussion that is reached by humans, there is no middle ground, only two oppisite sides of a flipping coin. Discuss it with the Atheist.
Peace.
Instead of just saying "I win, ha ha" why not stay and have a rational discussion on the matter and see if we can bring it to a conclusion?
There is no conclusion, Atheist, ( or closet Atheist, Agnostics) think as they do, because their supposed to think that way. I think as I do, because I am supposed to think this way. Its an unending merry go round. We have discuissed it long enough. I grow tired of the circles and the attitudes, although yours has been refreshing. You face only me, I face several Atheist who wax disrespectful and insulting, I grow tired of their disrespect. I run off who I can, but some of them are pesky, its their nature.
There will never be a rational conclusion to Atheist-Theist discussion that is reached by humans, there is no middle ground, only two oppisite sides of a flipping coin. Discuss it with the Atheist.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1344051 wrote: There is no conclusion, Atheist, ( or closet Atheist, Agnostics) think as they do, because their supposed to think that way. I think as I do, because I am supposed to think this way. Its an unending merry go round. We have discuissed it long enough. I grow tired of the circles and the attitudes, although yours has been refreshing. You face only me, I face several Atheist who wax disrespectful and insulting, I grow tired of their disrespect. I run off who I can, but some of them are pesky, its their nature.
There will never be a rational conclusion to Atheist-Theist discussion that is reached by humans, there is no middle ground, only two oppisite sides of a flipping coin. Discuss it with the Atheist.
Peace.
If you wish to call an end to the discussion then so be it but posts such as :-
Mickiel;1343961 wrote: This does not answer my question, but thats alright, you cannot answer it. And I understand that. You are not able to answer.
Anyhow, I have enjoyed the debate, now I have go back into proofs of God. I have so many more to cover.
Peace.
are less than helpful to your cause.
Agree to disagree if you will, but you are the one being disrespectful - ask not for what you do not give yourself.
There will never be a rational conclusion to Atheist-Theist discussion that is reached by humans, there is no middle ground, only two oppisite sides of a flipping coin. Discuss it with the Atheist.
Peace.
If you wish to call an end to the discussion then so be it but posts such as :-
Mickiel;1343961 wrote: This does not answer my question, but thats alright, you cannot answer it. And I understand that. You are not able to answer.
Anyhow, I have enjoyed the debate, now I have go back into proofs of God. I have so many more to cover.
Peace.
are less than helpful to your cause.
Agree to disagree if you will, but you are the one being disrespectful - ask not for what you do not give yourself.
Is God Real?
Bryn Mawr;1344052 wrote: If you wish to call an end to the discussion then so be it but posts such as :-
are less than helpful to your cause.
Agree to disagree if you will, but you are the one being disrespectful - ask not for what you do not give yourself.
I have no cause.
Peace.
are less than helpful to your cause.
Agree to disagree if you will, but you are the one being disrespectful - ask not for what you do not give yourself.
I have no cause.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Is God real? Well I am happy that he is, and that happiness is proof of God. Happiness is contenment that God is real, and that he will one day spread a far greater happiness to all. God is Joy, and when you experience Happiness and Joy, then you can have an idea what God is really like. What his reality must be like. God is happy and content, and these charactheristics are definte evidence of him.
And they can be experienced in your reality, and help your consciousness key in on his existence.
Peace.
And they can be experienced in your reality, and help your consciousness key in on his existence.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Biology is proof of God. The science of life is evidence of God. All life, plant, animal, human, the phenomena of life is incredible and demands an incredible power at its orgin.
Peace.
Peace.
Is God Real?
You are totally unaware how Darwinian you actually are, aren't you. The God you've unwittingly described in many of your posts is in fact Evolution.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
-
littleCJelkton
- Posts: 1215
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1344051 wrote: There is no conclusion, Atheist, ( or closet Atheist, Agnostics) think as they do, because their supposed to think that way. I think as I do, because I am supposed to think this way. Its an unending merry go round. We have discuissed it long enough. I grow tired of the circles and the attitudes, although yours has been refreshing. You face only me, I face several Atheist who wax disrespectful and insulting, I grow tired of their disrespect. I run off who I can, but some of them are pesky, its their nature.
There will never be a rational conclusion to Atheist-Theist discussion that is reached by humans, there is no middle ground, only two oppisite sides of a flipping coin. Discuss it with the Atheist.
Peace.
I am not an athiest by the way I am buddhist but you are the one who is being pesty. At the beginging of the post I and others were debating with you reasonably but I quickly figured out that was pointless to be reasonable with you. So the only way I find to be reasonable with a unreasonalbe person is to be unreasonable as well. Though unfortunately Mods will get on you unless like you you are religiously unreasonable. So now I and others on here are down to having to be reasonable persistent to fight against your unreasonableness as is the case with any other unreasonable thread. I see that maybe our persitence is beging to take its toll but please don't stop now just because of us. Your unreasonable spamming tirades of circiumvential hypocriticism has resulted in alot of activity against it which I am sure is good for the forum so lets keep it going.
There will never be a rational conclusion to Atheist-Theist discussion that is reached by humans, there is no middle ground, only two oppisite sides of a flipping coin. Discuss it with the Atheist.
Peace.
I am not an athiest by the way I am buddhist but you are the one who is being pesty. At the beginging of the post I and others were debating with you reasonably but I quickly figured out that was pointless to be reasonable with you. So the only way I find to be reasonable with a unreasonalbe person is to be unreasonable as well. Though unfortunately Mods will get on you unless like you you are religiously unreasonable. So now I and others on here are down to having to be reasonable persistent to fight against your unreasonableness as is the case with any other unreasonable thread. I see that maybe our persitence is beging to take its toll but please don't stop now just because of us. Your unreasonable spamming tirades of circiumvential hypocriticism has resulted in alot of activity against it which I am sure is good for the forum so lets keep it going.
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1344060 wrote: Is God real? Well I am happy that he is, and that happiness is proof of God.Here! You answered your own question from post 37 which you claimed Bryn didn't. :wah:
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Is God Real?
littleCJelkton;1344096 wrote: .
So now I and others on here are down to having to be reasonable persisten against to fight against your unreasonableness as is the case with any other unreasonable thread. .
So you think its a fight, a battle. I don't mind how you think and perceive this, but I willnot tolerate disrespect and senseless sarcasm that is insulting. And I willnot respond to it.
I don't consider this a fight, I consider it a slaughter. Though I stand alone, there is no defeat in this. The deck is already stacked, I need only play the cards.
Peace.
So now I and others on here are down to having to be reasonable persisten against to fight against your unreasonableness as is the case with any other unreasonable thread. .
So you think its a fight, a battle. I don't mind how you think and perceive this, but I willnot tolerate disrespect and senseless sarcasm that is insulting. And I willnot respond to it.
I don't consider this a fight, I consider it a slaughter. Though I stand alone, there is no defeat in this. The deck is already stacked, I need only play the cards.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Destiny is proof of God, and let me say powerful personal proof. God has the power of agency which determines the course of events. And when you see this in your own life, a power that is predeterming your course in life, you just know God is there. Its hard to explain this to those who cannot see it, but you see it, buy it you can know God is real. You can see him doing it to human history and our future, and nothing can stop it.
Peace.
Peace.
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littleCJelkton
- Posts: 1215
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
Is God Real?
Fight, Conflict, dispute, argument you can plug any one of those in. The reason it is a slaughter is not because of the numbers but is the usual result on this Forum whenever Unreasonableness goes up against the reasonableness of the common posters here. Some defend against by spamming more resulting in getting banned, others leave, and some (like you) just choose to ignore it.
Is God Real?
littleCJelkton;1344122 wrote: Fight, Conflict, dispute, argument you can plug any one of those in. The reason it is a slaughter is not because of the numbers but is the usual result on this Forum whenever Unreasonableness goes up against the reasonableness of the common posters here. Some defend against by spamming more resulting in getting banned, others leave, and some (like you) just choose to ignore it.
I hold no intrest in fighting or spamming, I simply post my views. But me, like anyonelse, can get bothered by the disrespect of others. So I choose to ignore it if it keeps up, but never to return it.
That being said, " Humming Birds" are proof of God. They weigh 1/4 of an ounce, and like helicopters, can fly forward, backwards, sideways, and can hover in mid air. Their flight mechanism is incredibly complex and the quills in their feathers are stronger for their weight than any structure designed by man. These quills constantly change shape to adjust for wind and air pressure. The leading vane of their feather functions much like a propeller, to offer lift and propulsion. Three quarters of their entire weight is in their wing muscles. They posses a kind of jet assisted take off mechanism that they can use during landings and takeoffs.
Air flows only one way into their lungs so as to bring a constant supply of oxygen for such strenous high speed flight. They also posses retractable landing gear, a migration navigation system, streamlining and camouflage. An extraordinary respiration system where they can store extra air inside their hollow bones, in turn this provides buoyancy and internal air conditioning. Humming birds are practically areodynamic perfection, only God could have made such an efficent flying machine. No other aeronautical engineer has ever designed anything that even comes close.
Again, stunning proof of God.
Peace.
I hold no intrest in fighting or spamming, I simply post my views. But me, like anyonelse, can get bothered by the disrespect of others. So I choose to ignore it if it keeps up, but never to return it.
That being said, " Humming Birds" are proof of God. They weigh 1/4 of an ounce, and like helicopters, can fly forward, backwards, sideways, and can hover in mid air. Their flight mechanism is incredibly complex and the quills in their feathers are stronger for their weight than any structure designed by man. These quills constantly change shape to adjust for wind and air pressure. The leading vane of their feather functions much like a propeller, to offer lift and propulsion. Three quarters of their entire weight is in their wing muscles. They posses a kind of jet assisted take off mechanism that they can use during landings and takeoffs.
Air flows only one way into their lungs so as to bring a constant supply of oxygen for such strenous high speed flight. They also posses retractable landing gear, a migration navigation system, streamlining and camouflage. An extraordinary respiration system where they can store extra air inside their hollow bones, in turn this provides buoyancy and internal air conditioning. Humming birds are practically areodynamic perfection, only God could have made such an efficent flying machine. No other aeronautical engineer has ever designed anything that even comes close.
Again, stunning proof of God.
Peace.
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littleCJelkton
- Posts: 1215
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
Is God Real?
Not that any or your proofs are actual proofs as they make no sense have very little if any extenuating evidence, and/or any evidence/facts to back them up, but if one were to say this and that they are proofs of god as you do. Then following that logic as best possible one could pose that murder, genocide, rape, incest all be proofs of god too
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TruthBringer
- Posts: 3567
- Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:39 pm
Is God Real?
Mickiel. I am honored by what you are trying to do here. To prove the existence of the True God is absolutely amazing. To deny the existence of Christ is absolutely retarded. And therefore because you have said that you don't care what the Christians have to say, and yet you use the Bible to back up some of your claims, tells me that you are currently coming across as an empty promise to people in the dark. To deny Christ is to deny God. Christ is the Way to God, the only way. Christ has nothing to do with the Bible, agreed. Because It was around long before Moses ever lived on the Earth. However, Christ has EVERYTHING to do with God. Everything. The words 'Christ', 'Christos' and 'Krist' are all associated with the word 'Krist' which is the sonic translation of the first level of creation, the closest to Source. The Krist Grid is the first Kathara Tree of Life Grid. In KS, terms such as 'Christos' are both concepts in terms of consciousness and also in terms of very specific mechanics and mathematics. You fail to point this out to people. You focus much on "god" but so what. Unless you mention Christ as the way to that God than it is only a "god" with a lesser g. If you haven't gone through Christ than you haven't found God. Christ has no religion, so no need for the religious to get upset. Think of Christ as the first Soul ever created. Surely you believe that there was a first? If you believe in Souls.
Also, you are such an expert at proving things to yourself. You are horrible at trying to empathize with others to prove things in the way that they would like you to. Or wish for. You don't think about others, you have said so yourself. "I don't care what others think, this is what I believe." Does that sound like something Jesus would ever say? That Christ would ever say? That God would ever say? Think about your approach. You have lost the battle on this board, but you have certainly not lost the war. Take what you have learned from this board, and use it on another, only put yourself in another person's mind and body and then preach to them as if it was them preaching to themselves. If a person can't trust themselves with the information you provide for them, than they will never trust you with it. It is as simple wiggling your finger to empathize with another Human Being. Do it, and you shall "Reign over everything" (in other words - you will be One with the Creator - as anyone can be). Love your Brother as you love the "Pupil of your own eye", and protect it likewise, and you will never go wrong. At the moment, you are only protecting yourself. And others can see it. Once you begin to protect others and care for them like you care for your own feelings, than you will have the impact that it appears that you desire. If anyone deny this for you or try to block it, let them fall "into the ditch".
Also, you are such an expert at proving things to yourself. You are horrible at trying to empathize with others to prove things in the way that they would like you to. Or wish for. You don't think about others, you have said so yourself. "I don't care what others think, this is what I believe." Does that sound like something Jesus would ever say? That Christ would ever say? That God would ever say? Think about your approach. You have lost the battle on this board, but you have certainly not lost the war. Take what you have learned from this board, and use it on another, only put yourself in another person's mind and body and then preach to them as if it was them preaching to themselves. If a person can't trust themselves with the information you provide for them, than they will never trust you with it. It is as simple wiggling your finger to empathize with another Human Being. Do it, and you shall "Reign over everything" (in other words - you will be One with the Creator - as anyone can be). Love your Brother as you love the "Pupil of your own eye", and protect it likewise, and you will never go wrong. At the moment, you are only protecting yourself. And others can see it. Once you begin to protect others and care for them like you care for your own feelings, than you will have the impact that it appears that you desire. If anyone deny this for you or try to block it, let them fall "into the ditch".
Link removed by moderator
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TruthBringer
- Posts: 3567
- Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:39 pm
Is God Real?
People tend to protect what most reminds them of themselves. What they feel is closer to their belief system. You Mickiel are closer to me as far as your beliefs than Bryn or Little C and yet I scold you because you should know better. You say you believe in God but if you knew the Truth than you wouldn't treat Bryn or Little C as if they were any less than yourself. We've all been guilty of such actions, but what I am saying to you is this. They don't want you to attack either of them. They want you to debate with them in a civilized manner. Free from insults that would hurt their feelings. They are your Brothers. I'm telling you this because if you truly want to follow in the footsteps of One True God, and to be as close to It as possible, than you must look at everyone, even your worst enemy, as your Brother. A task I have failed at many times myself. Look at my history on this board. My strongest thread in the Warfare and Military section was a dogfight for myself that I could have handled differently. But I was less experienced, and not as close to God as I am now (the more you treat your neighbor as yourself, the closer you get). For me to try to cram my beliefs down someone's throat is totally wrong. This I can understand. Make no mistake though, in that thread I was definitely in touch with the Truth, but any insult that I threw someone's way I regret, because there is a chance that I hurt someone's feelings. Especially Spot, whom I was a little coarse with over the years. But if you would have noticed, on this board, you build understandings. Not necessarily friendships, but understandings. Now, I argue with people, but I feel like the ones I used to argue with the most, probably in turn also understand me the most, and I understand them. Your problem is that you came to this board expecting to make an enormous impact on all of us, yet you forgot the little things that are important, such as earning your place among the people. Something that goes as far back as the beginning of Human Civilization. So you want respect this we can all see. Have you earned it? Think about that question for a second. How long have you toiled and been through almost complete extermination from this board? (Many of us have come close to being banned for our beliefs). But you, you come here with a puffed out chest, trying to force the rest of us to accept your "beliefs".
It's not the information you are providing that is pissing people off Mick. It's the way the information is being provided. Once you learn this valuable lesson, I feel that you will be quite a force in this World. Just as many of the people on this board already are.
It's not the information you are providing that is pissing people off Mick. It's the way the information is being provided. Once you learn this valuable lesson, I feel that you will be quite a force in this World. Just as many of the people on this board already are.
Link removed by moderator
Is God Real?
TruthBringer;1344153 wrote:
It's not the information you are providing that is pissing people off Mick. It's the way the information is being provided. Once you learn this valuable lesson, I feel that you will be quite a force in this World. Just as many of the people on this board already are.
I am not here to please people and I do not take advice from Christians. I appriciate your concern, but I do not need your advice, and have not asked for it. I do not care how I am perceived by the people here, I am not interested in reputation, and I am not trying to " Earn anything", I am simply posting what I believe. People can take it like they want to, but it must be left as it is, proof of God.
I hold no intrest in being a force in this world, I walk alone.
Peace.
It's not the information you are providing that is pissing people off Mick. It's the way the information is being provided. Once you learn this valuable lesson, I feel that you will be quite a force in this World. Just as many of the people on this board already are.
I am not here to please people and I do not take advice from Christians. I appriciate your concern, but I do not need your advice, and have not asked for it. I do not care how I am perceived by the people here, I am not interested in reputation, and I am not trying to " Earn anything", I am simply posting what I believe. People can take it like they want to, but it must be left as it is, proof of God.
I hold no intrest in being a force in this world, I walk alone.
Peace.
Is God Real?
littleCJelkton;1344140 wrote: Not that any or your proofs are actual proofs as they make no sense have very little if any extenuating evidence, and/or any evidence/facts to back them up, but if one were to say this and that they are proofs of god as you do. Then following that logic as best possible one could pose that murder, genocide, rape, incest all be proofs of god too
Well crime is proof of God, absolute proof that we need him and his ways or we will be criminals. Without Gods influence, we simply revert to the barbaric. God is good, and if he is not " With, or In the human", then criminal activity is more easily ingrained into their nature.
Peace.
Well crime is proof of God, absolute proof that we need him and his ways or we will be criminals. Without Gods influence, we simply revert to the barbaric. God is good, and if he is not " With, or In the human", then criminal activity is more easily ingrained into their nature.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Is God real? The proofs of God range from the easy to the complex. Many tribal groups who are uncivilized, sense that a God is there, and many intelligent scientist do sense that a God may be there. These senses are " Revealed to the consciousness", so revelation is proof of God. Its something " Disclosed to your consciousness", a striking communication. Something not before realized. This is an act that falls on God, its his responsibility to do this.
The fact is, that he does not always do it.
Peace.
The fact is, that he does not always do it.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Jesus Christ is proof of God, the finest proof. He was recorded in history by Josephus, Suetonius, Thallus, Pliny the Younger, The Tallmud, Lucian, Celsus, Sextus Julius Africanus and Tacitus, all mentioned him in their historical writings. The Church Fathers wrote about Christ, old Jewish texts, and many articles found in egypt that foretold his comming. Archaeology has help impressively with Jesus existence, we have the houses of Mary and Martha, and the Apostle Peter. We have the river he was baptised in, Jordan. We have two possible gravesites for his burial. We have the " Garden of Gethsemane" where he prayed. We have the " Via Dolorosa", parts of the pavement he stood on before Pilate. We have the actual bones of " Caiaphas", the high priest who judged Christ, and the bones of " Simon the Cyrenian", who carried Christ Cross. We have the " Damascus Gate", where he was marched through, and we have the place of the " Skull, Golgotha", the place he was crucified.
Jesus then is stunning proof of God.
Peace.
Jesus then is stunning proof of God.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1344171 wrote: Jesus Christ is proof of God, the finest proof. He was recorded in history by Josephus, Suetonius, Thallus, Pliny the Younger, The Tallmud, Lucian, Celsus, Sextus Julius Africanus and Tacitus, all mentioned him in their historical writings. The Church Fathers wrote about Christ, old Jewish texts, and many articles found in egypt that foretold his comming. Archaeology has help impressively with Jesus existence, we have the houses of Mary and Martha, and the Apostle Peter. We have the river he was baptised in, Jordan. We have two possible gravesites for his burial. We have the " Garden of Gethsemane" where he prayed. We have the " Via Dolorosa", parts of the pavement he stood on before Pilate. We have the actual bones of " Caiaphas", the high priest who judged Christ, and the bones of " Simon the Cyrenian", who carried Christ Cross. We have the " Damascus Gate", where he was marched through, and we have the place of the " Skull, Golgotha", the place he was crucified.
Jesus then is stunning proof of God.
Peace.Wrong again, Mickie. From wikipedia.
According to traditional Church teaching the Gospels of John and Matthew were written by eyewitnesses, but a majority of modern critical biblical scholars no longer believe this is the case.[7][8][9] There is no evidence for the existence of Jesus that comes from his time—no writings or artifacts of his, no accounts of him written in his lifetime.[10][11][12] As a result, some critics argue that Biblical scholars have created the historical Jesus in their own image.[13][14] A small number of scholars believe the gospel accounts are so mythical in nature that nothing including the very existence of Jesus can be determined from them.[15] However, the majority of scholars who study early Christianity believe that the Gospels do contain some reliable information about Jesus.
Historicity of Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
All this proving is contrary to your own bible, Mickie, which states faith is the only proof of God and Jesus.
matthew 24:23 wrote: Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Jesus then is stunning proof of God.
Peace.Wrong again, Mickie. From wikipedia.
According to traditional Church teaching the Gospels of John and Matthew were written by eyewitnesses, but a majority of modern critical biblical scholars no longer believe this is the case.[7][8][9] There is no evidence for the existence of Jesus that comes from his time—no writings or artifacts of his, no accounts of him written in his lifetime.[10][11][12] As a result, some critics argue that Biblical scholars have created the historical Jesus in their own image.[13][14] A small number of scholars believe the gospel accounts are so mythical in nature that nothing including the very existence of Jesus can be determined from them.[15] However, the majority of scholars who study early Christianity believe that the Gospels do contain some reliable information about Jesus.
Historicity of Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
All this proving is contrary to your own bible, Mickie, which states faith is the only proof of God and Jesus.
matthew 24:23 wrote: Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Is God Real?
Tiberius Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus Emperor is proof of God, his son Jesus confronted this historical Caesar. This is the Caesar of Jesus time. It was Tiberius who made the decree to pay taxes, and we have the very podium from which he made this decree and judged Christ, this day we have it. Stunning proof of Christ and his Father God. Luke 2:1-3 is an historical record of Augustus tax decree. This decree necessitated Mary and Joesph's journey from Nazareth to Bethlehem, where Christ was born in fulfillment of Micah 5:2.
Peace.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Mickie, what happened that made you so religious anyway?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
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littleCJelkton
- Posts: 1215
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1344163 wrote: Well crime is proof of God, absolute proof that we need him and his ways or we will be criminals. Without Gods influence, we simply revert to the barbaric. God is good, and if he is not " With, or In the human", then criminal activity is more easily ingrained into their nature.
Peace.
Maybe or Crime is proof of " "god" " as certain people believe they are closer to " "god" " than other thus allowing them to pass judgement on those who are not as close to " "god" " as they think they are. This Judgement can be as severe as killing those who are not as close to " "god" " as you.
Peace.
Maybe or Crime is proof of " "god" " as certain people believe they are closer to " "god" " than other thus allowing them to pass judgement on those who are not as close to " "god" " as they think they are. This Judgement can be as severe as killing those who are not as close to " "god" " as you.
Is God Real?
littleCJelkton;1344183 wrote: Maybe or Crime is proof of " "god" " as certain people believe they are closer to " "god" " than other thus allowing them to pass judgement on those who are not as close to " "god" " as they think they are. This Judgement can be as severe as killing those who are not as close to " "god" " as you.
I wish I was close to God, or even knew him for that matter. To personally know God would be quite something. I don't know if I will ever get to know him, but I believe he is real. Personal relationship is another proof of God, but I must admit that I have not personally experienced this level of proof.
Peace.
I wish I was close to God, or even knew him for that matter. To personally know God would be quite something. I don't know if I will ever get to know him, but I believe he is real. Personal relationship is another proof of God, but I must admit that I have not personally experienced this level of proof.
Peace.
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recovering conservative
- Posts: 529
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:28 pm
Is God Real?
I wonder; do dyslexics believe there is a doG?
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littleCJelkton
- Posts: 1215
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
Is God Real?
recovering conservative;1344231 wrote: I wonder; do dyslexics believe there is a doG?
Yes and is A rowbain orfop of Dog?
Yes and is A rowbain orfop of Dog?
Is God Real?
Family life is proof of God. God constructed the family in human and animal life. He gave the meaning of relationship and its dedication. Its structure comes from God, evolution does not know how to construct a family.
Peace.
Peace.
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recovering conservative
- Posts: 529
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:28 pm
Is God Real?
littleCJelkton;1344246 wrote: Yes and is A rowbain orfop of Dog?
I'm stumped on this one! I guess there are some properties of Dog that are beyond human comprehension.
I'm stumped on this one! I guess there are some properties of Dog that are beyond human comprehension.
Is God Real?
When the apostle Paul arrived in Athens to preach his famous sermon in Acts 17:22-31, they took him to the " Areopagus", or Mars Hill. Archaeologist have located this hill. Paul was once tried at a judgement seat in Berma, Archaeologist have also found this judgement place, called " Gallio's Berma." Yet still adding proof of the bibles historical relevance.
Peace.
Peace.
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littleCJelkton
- Posts: 1215
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
Is God Real?
recovering conservative;1344253 wrote: I'm stumped on this one! I guess there are some properties of Dog that are beyond human comprehension.
There is no toinp in bedating the worep of Dog
There is no toinp in bedating the worep of Dog
Is God Real?
One of the proofs of the bibles significance, is that it is the number one read book in the world, none are even close to it, and it is the number one best seller in the world. Here is a list of the other nine and how many copies sold:
Quotations from Mao Tse-Tung . --820 million .
Harry Potter--400 million.
Lord of the Rings-- 103 million.
The Alchemist--65 Million.
Da Vinci Code-- 57 million.
Twilight- The Saga-- 43 Million.
Gone with the Wind-- 33 Million.
Think and Grow Rich-- 30 Million.
Diray of Anne Frank-- 27 Million.
The bible out sales them all. Sure evidence of its reality in the belief of humanity, and the God it speaks of.
Peace.
Quotations from Mao Tse-Tung . --820 million .
Harry Potter--400 million.
Lord of the Rings-- 103 million.
The Alchemist--65 Million.
Da Vinci Code-- 57 million.
Twilight- The Saga-- 43 Million.
Gone with the Wind-- 33 Million.
Think and Grow Rich-- 30 Million.
Diray of Anne Frank-- 27 Million.
The bible out sales them all. Sure evidence of its reality in the belief of humanity, and the God it speaks of.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1344275 wrote: One of the proofs of the bibles significance, is that it is the number one read book in the world, none are even close to it, and it is the number one best seller in the world. Here is a list of the other nine and how many copies sold:
Quotations from Mao Tse-Tung . --820 million .
Harry Potter--400 million.
Lord of the Rings-- 103 million.
The Alchemist--65 Million.
Da Vinci Code-- 57 million.
Twilight- The Saga-- 43 Million.
Gone with the Wind-- 33 Million.
Think and Grow Rich-- 30 Million.
Diray of Anne Frank-- 27 Million.
The bible out sales them all. Sure evidence of its reality in the belief of humanity, and the God it speaks of.
Peace.
Notice how much of the intrest in world readers centers toward fantasy, instead of things that are real. Why is that? And why do some consider God a fantasy? For the next week or so, I am going to be going into this strange tendency toward fantasy instead of things that are real, and how we intermigle the two.
Peace.
Quotations from Mao Tse-Tung . --820 million .
Harry Potter--400 million.
Lord of the Rings-- 103 million.
The Alchemist--65 Million.
Da Vinci Code-- 57 million.
Twilight- The Saga-- 43 Million.
Gone with the Wind-- 33 Million.
Think and Grow Rich-- 30 Million.
Diray of Anne Frank-- 27 Million.
The bible out sales them all. Sure evidence of its reality in the belief of humanity, and the God it speaks of.
Peace.
Notice how much of the intrest in world readers centers toward fantasy, instead of things that are real. Why is that? And why do some consider God a fantasy? For the next week or so, I am going to be going into this strange tendency toward fantasy instead of things that are real, and how we intermigle the two.
Peace.