In all seriousness, I want to test out a few possibilities.
1) Since we were all given brains, it would scientifically make sense if everyone born with a normal brain could could use them. People that can't seem to use their brains are proof that God exists since, scientifically everyone's brain should provide them with the ability to think clearly.
possible flaws: just because the brain is there doesn't mean that it's in working order, it could be biologically flawed in a way that prevents reason.
2) The book of Ruth lends credibility to the existence of God. If they were just making the story up as they went along, they wouldn't have included problematic issues like David having a Moabite mother. There are lots of problem areas in the bible regarding God's commandments that would have been easier to just delete from the story. That they admit to them seems only justifiable if they are telling a true story.
possible flaws: Too many authors makes for plot holes.
Feel free to throw a few ideas around, add to or shoot down my suggestions.
Even if they seem silly, sometimes great things are discovered via brainstorming.
Arguments for God
Arguments for God
Why do you need god in the first place?
Arguments for God
I prefer a world with God. Since it can't currently be proven or disproven, I choose to believe the thing that makes me happy. I'm fairly certain that my view of God is quite different than most but I don't concern myself too much with what other people believe, I just hope it also makes them happy.
Arguments for God
I actually have very good reasons for believing in God but it would be written off as a misplacement of cause and effect and or a lack of understanding of how the brain works. lol
This thread was just an experiment to see how many proofs I could brainstorm that border on absurd and yet somehow make more sense than some of the really stupid proofs I've read elsewhere. Needless to say, I got bored with it shortly after starting. :p
This thread was just an experiment to see how many proofs I could brainstorm that border on absurd and yet somehow make more sense than some of the really stupid proofs I've read elsewhere. Needless to say, I got bored with it shortly after starting. :p
Arguments for God
I'm an atheist but, in the spirit of this thread, I'd like to offer this.
The universe, as we know it, could have formed very differently. The fact that it formed at all into what we now know and love, with all its myriad complexities that we are still trying to understand, could be taken as proof that it had to have been formed by God. My statement would be based on the principle that the basic material of the universe itself is inert and requires another force or energy source to mould it into something.
The universe, as we know it, could have formed very differently. The fact that it formed at all into what we now know and love, with all its myriad complexities that we are still trying to understand, could be taken as proof that it had to have been formed by God. My statement would be based on the principle that the basic material of the universe itself is inert and requires another force or energy source to mould it into something.
Arguments for God
I like the theory that God is what fills the gaps between fossil records of evolution. When a bridging fossil is found it actually makes twice as many gaps.
Arguments for God
koan;1343669 wrote: I prefer a world with God. Since it can't currently be proven or disproven, I choose to believe the thing that makes me happy. I'm fairly certain that my view of God is quite different than most but I don't concern myself too much with what other people believe, I just hope it also makes them happy.So belief in god for you is a perpetual state of happiness, or at the least, a channel to tune to when life becomes overwhelming? I'd say thats as good a reason to believe in god as any, IMO. Thats what I would call an adaptation. My difficulty arises when people make statements that assume the existence of a "living" god as matter of fact, when it isn't matter of fact at all. People, IMO, should keep the idea of god a personal concept, unless of course they want to enter into the world of factual proofs.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Arguments for God
koan;1343670 wrote: I actually have very good reasons for believing in God but it would be written off as a misplacement of cause and effect and or a lack of understanding of how the brain works. lol
This thread was just an experiment to see how many proofs I could brainstorm that border on absurd and yet somehow make more sense than some of the really stupid proofs I've read elsewhere. Needless to say, I got bored with it shortly after starting. :pYou've never cared about anything I've said in the past, why the change? Come to think of it, you're probably talking about someone smarter than me. Go for it!
This thread was just an experiment to see how many proofs I could brainstorm that border on absurd and yet somehow make more sense than some of the really stupid proofs I've read elsewhere. Needless to say, I got bored with it shortly after starting. :pYou've never cared about anything I've said in the past, why the change? Come to think of it, you're probably talking about someone smarter than me. Go for it!
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Arguments for God
yeah, my problem listening to Dawkins et al is that they are only valid arguments against a personified God.
Arguments for God
Perhaps you should get away from the arguments and dig in to the history a bit. Sometimes the bible thumpers and the others can drown out your own thoughts on the subject
YouTube - Christendom Exposed By Early Christian Documents
look at the original sources for yourself.
YouTube - Christendom Exposed By Early Christian Documents
look at the original sources for yourself.
Arguments for God
If I were to attempt to construct an argument for god, it would be based on the process of Natural Selection as such.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Arguments for God
gmc;1343929 wrote: Perhaps you should get away from the arguments and dig in to the history a bit. Sometimes the bible thumpers and the others can drown out your own thoughts on the subject
YouTube - Christendom Exposed By Early Christian Documents
look at the original sources for yourself.
Regardless of what you seem to think of me, I read more than one book, prefer not to have my thoughts drowned out, and enjoy being a theist despite the fact that it can anger some people. A lot.
eta: I might have read your post wrong. I just got home and am frozen with wind chill. Whether I did or not, I do feel like you are constantly implying that I don't spend my spare time reading very much.
YouTube - Christendom Exposed By Early Christian Documents
look at the original sources for yourself.
Regardless of what you seem to think of me, I read more than one book, prefer not to have my thoughts drowned out, and enjoy being a theist despite the fact that it can anger some people. A lot.
eta: I might have read your post wrong. I just got home and am frozen with wind chill. Whether I did or not, I do feel like you are constantly implying that I don't spend my spare time reading very much.
Arguments for God
koan;1343220 wrote: People that can't seem to use their brains are proof that God exists since, scientifically everyone's brain should provide them with the ability to think clearly.I'm reminded of "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway".
God exists because people experience the divine. Experiencing doesn't give any guarantee of correctly interpreting, or understanding, or recognizing God's nature and attributes, which gives rise to all the inflated extremist baloney emanating from damaged societies on the verge of collective nervous breakdown. I'll be interested to see when you first find hints of a description of a tolerant God in your romp through the Bible, there's not much sign of one yet.
God exists because people experience the divine. Experiencing doesn't give any guarantee of correctly interpreting, or understanding, or recognizing God's nature and attributes, which gives rise to all the inflated extremist baloney emanating from damaged societies on the verge of collective nervous breakdown. I'll be interested to see when you first find hints of a description of a tolerant God in your romp through the Bible, there's not much sign of one yet.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Arguments for God
spot;1344005 wrote: I'm reminded of "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway".
God exists because people experience the divine. Experiencing doesn't give any guarantee of correctly interpreting, or understanding, or recognizing God's nature and attributes, which gives rise to all the inflated extremist baloney emanating from damaged societies on the verge of collective nervous breakdown. I'll be interested to see when you first find hints of a description of a tolerant God in your romp through the Bible, there's not much sign of one yet.
Hehe. Aside from adoring the works of Douglas Adams, it kind of cracked me up that Dawkins quotes him as often as he does in The God Delusion. I understand he semi wanted to dedicate the book to him but using quotes from a fiction writer to support scientific arguments was kind of like God defeating himself with his own logic via the Babel Fish.
Strangely enough, I felt the need to add to the comment that I read more than one book that I read the works of Michael Baigent before Brown even finished his first draft of the DaVinci Code... but laughed my ass off at him when he sued Brown for copyright infringement. It's another Babel Fish problem. Baigent wants to claim that his work is true yet sues a fiction writer for copyright. Self defeating.
God exists because people experience the divine. Experiencing doesn't give any guarantee of correctly interpreting, or understanding, or recognizing God's nature and attributes, which gives rise to all the inflated extremist baloney emanating from damaged societies on the verge of collective nervous breakdown. I'll be interested to see when you first find hints of a description of a tolerant God in your romp through the Bible, there's not much sign of one yet.
Hehe. Aside from adoring the works of Douglas Adams, it kind of cracked me up that Dawkins quotes him as often as he does in The God Delusion. I understand he semi wanted to dedicate the book to him but using quotes from a fiction writer to support scientific arguments was kind of like God defeating himself with his own logic via the Babel Fish.
Strangely enough, I felt the need to add to the comment that I read more than one book that I read the works of Michael Baigent before Brown even finished his first draft of the DaVinci Code... but laughed my ass off at him when he sued Brown for copyright infringement. It's another Babel Fish problem. Baigent wants to claim that his work is true yet sues a fiction writer for copyright. Self defeating.
Arguments for God
koan;1343979 wrote: Regardless of what you seem to think of me, I read more than one book, prefer not to have my thoughts drowned out, and enjoy being a theist despite the fact that it can anger some people. A lot.
eta: I might have read your post wrong. I just got home and am frozen with wind chill. Whether I did or not, I do feel like you are constantly implying that I don't spend my spare time reading very much.
I'm sorry if I came across like that I certainly didn't mean to imply anything of the kind. I was just posting a link to other areas of study that I happen to find interesting and thought you might as well. What is in the testament could have been so very different were it not for paul and the desire of a roman emperor to convince people the gods were on his side. I find it very hard to take seriously people who claim that the bible is the word opf god handed down through all the tyranslations and edits with him guidimng the hand of those doimng the work. To be blunt I find it silly but it's my opinion based on my own study. So many just regurgitate the last article they read.
In one of the other threads you are reading the bible it's worthwhile imo creoss referencing what's in the bible with other sources.(hence the link) Sometimes discussions end up with people firing bible quotations at each other that they think back up their view on the subject. The bible thumpers can get in the way of making up your own mind if you let them. They don't want you to think but feel compelled to mesmerise you in to belief.
I don't believe the bible is the word of god (and i have read it but did so as a teenager and have no interest in memorising it ) but nor do I dismiss it as a load of rubbish. A lot of the stories can be verified from other sources and you realise that in some cases they were seeing natural phenomena and giving god the credit for doing something because they couldn't understand what else could be the cause. The god of the old testament was a vicious, capricious being but that is what life must have felt like. If the crops fail humans will seek a reason for the lack of any other if you believe there is a god then perhaps you have angered him, now we know about weather changes and the effects of over cultivation. It also contains myths and stories pinched from those they were coming in contact with. If you look at other ancient cultures some of the similarities in the myths are startling, not coincidence but not the hand of god either. The jews were a mediterranean people, they would have traded far and wide so commonplace an activity it was taken for granted.
I dion't think you need to read the bible to decide if there is a god or not you would ask the same question if you had never heard of it, and i don't think the answer is contained in the bible. If you do decide you believe there is a god there is no necessity to believe what you are told by the priests or what is seen as the word of god in the bible or he JC was divine. But that makes you a heretic so far as the catholic church is concerned and gives fundamentalist christians apoplexy.
posted by koan
I prefer a world with God. Since it can't currently be proven or disproven, I choose to believe the thing that makes me happy.
That's all you need. I'm glad you're happy how are dopey, sleepy and the rest these days?
eta: I might have read your post wrong. I just got home and am frozen with wind chill. Whether I did or not, I do feel like you are constantly implying that I don't spend my spare time reading very much.
I'm sorry if I came across like that I certainly didn't mean to imply anything of the kind. I was just posting a link to other areas of study that I happen to find interesting and thought you might as well. What is in the testament could have been so very different were it not for paul and the desire of a roman emperor to convince people the gods were on his side. I find it very hard to take seriously people who claim that the bible is the word opf god handed down through all the tyranslations and edits with him guidimng the hand of those doimng the work. To be blunt I find it silly but it's my opinion based on my own study. So many just regurgitate the last article they read.
In one of the other threads you are reading the bible it's worthwhile imo creoss referencing what's in the bible with other sources.(hence the link) Sometimes discussions end up with people firing bible quotations at each other that they think back up their view on the subject. The bible thumpers can get in the way of making up your own mind if you let them. They don't want you to think but feel compelled to mesmerise you in to belief.
I don't believe the bible is the word of god (and i have read it but did so as a teenager and have no interest in memorising it ) but nor do I dismiss it as a load of rubbish. A lot of the stories can be verified from other sources and you realise that in some cases they were seeing natural phenomena and giving god the credit for doing something because they couldn't understand what else could be the cause. The god of the old testament was a vicious, capricious being but that is what life must have felt like. If the crops fail humans will seek a reason for the lack of any other if you believe there is a god then perhaps you have angered him, now we know about weather changes and the effects of over cultivation. It also contains myths and stories pinched from those they were coming in contact with. If you look at other ancient cultures some of the similarities in the myths are startling, not coincidence but not the hand of god either. The jews were a mediterranean people, they would have traded far and wide so commonplace an activity it was taken for granted.
I dion't think you need to read the bible to decide if there is a god or not you would ask the same question if you had never heard of it, and i don't think the answer is contained in the bible. If you do decide you believe there is a god there is no necessity to believe what you are told by the priests or what is seen as the word of god in the bible or he JC was divine. But that makes you a heretic so far as the catholic church is concerned and gives fundamentalist christians apoplexy.
posted by koan
I prefer a world with God. Since it can't currently be proven or disproven, I choose to believe the thing that makes me happy.
That's all you need. I'm glad you're happy how are dopey, sleepy and the rest these days?
Arguments for God
I don't think you bothered to read what my version of the bible is. lol
Arguments for God
koan;1344131 wrote: I don't think you bothered to read what my version of the bible is. lol
Well actually no I didn't. I prefer the king james authorised version if only because it was commissioned by a fellow scot - albeit a very strange one.
Well actually no I didn't. I prefer the king james authorised version if only because it was commissioned by a fellow scot - albeit a very strange one.
Arguments for God
gmc;1344187 wrote: Well actually no I didn't. I prefer the king james authorised version if only because it was commissioned by a fellow scot - albeit a very strange one.
That also explains why you seem to have no idea what I think of the bible. Having opinions is aided by having read the thing you wish to have an opinion on.
That also explains why you seem to have no idea what I think of the bible. Having opinions is aided by having read the thing you wish to have an opinion on.
Arguments for God
Arguments for God could take two paths
1. arguing for the mind-independent existence of God,
2. arguments justifying the belief in God (regardless of the actual existence).
The second path seems to be a easier route, since to justify a behaviour, you only need to point to some result that benefits you. For example maybe belief helps you cope with stress. It's possible to hold a belief in something and at the same time allow that it may not exist in any mind-independent sense.
1. arguing for the mind-independent existence of God,
2. arguments justifying the belief in God (regardless of the actual existence).
The second path seems to be a easier route, since to justify a behaviour, you only need to point to some result that benefits you. For example maybe belief helps you cope with stress. It's possible to hold a belief in something and at the same time allow that it may not exist in any mind-independent sense.
Arguments for God
Mind independent existence encounters many problems. The main issue that I've noticed is the huge variation among believers as to what a physical God would be like; ranging from the old man with the white beard sitting on a cloud through all the variations on the way to something not even as fine substanced as aether but existing in nonexistence outside of space, time and manifestation. Unknowable except as a point of first manifestation, like Kether on the Qabalistic Tree of Life. But even Kether is not God.
As a result, non believers can only argue with one idea of what God "is" at a time and for each argument, all the people with other ideas of what God is are laughing because the argument doesn't apply to them. Take away all the belief in a physical God and you'll still be left with the mystical variations.
As a result, non believers can only argue with one idea of what God "is" at a time and for each argument, all the people with other ideas of what God is are laughing because the argument doesn't apply to them. Take away all the belief in a physical God and you'll still be left with the mystical variations.
Arguments for God
posted by spot
God exists because people experience the divine.
God exists because people experience something they can't explain and decide something must be doing it and bring a being called god in to existence. Visions for instance are either a sign from god, witchcraft or you don't really know but find the subject intriguing, the only difference is interpretation.
For instance last year I had a narrow escape when a red deer leapt on to the road in front of me one night in a narrow windy country road. The thing is I had actually braked before it was on the road otherwise I would have hit it. Should I thank god for saving me, and/or I have guardian angel, conclude I have precognitive abilities. or was it simply movement had registered in my peripheral and my instinct kicked in before I registered it consciously?
God exists because people experience the divine.
God exists because people experience something they can't explain and decide something must be doing it and bring a being called god in to existence. Visions for instance are either a sign from god, witchcraft or you don't really know but find the subject intriguing, the only difference is interpretation.
For instance last year I had a narrow escape when a red deer leapt on to the road in front of me one night in a narrow windy country road. The thing is I had actually braked before it was on the road otherwise I would have hit it. Should I thank god for saving me, and/or I have guardian angel, conclude I have precognitive abilities. or was it simply movement had registered in my peripheral and my instinct kicked in before I registered it consciously?