In The Gutter

[Ahso!]

What action by others, be they close or not, makes you feel low and in the gutter most?

I'll give some options to choose from.

1) rejection

2) rejection

3) rejection

4) rejection

For me the answer is rejection, and the question is: why?

I think the low feelings associated with rejection is an adaptation (anyone surprised?). I think grouping is such a strong force in us that when threatened through rejection we become depressed, and since depression is an adaptation which tells us to slow down and think deeply about what we are doing, they work hand-in-hand.

Mothers, fathers, girlfriends, boyfriends, husbands, wives, friends and even pets use the threat of rejection as a method of manipulation.

See how much sense evolution makes?

[koan]

I dunno. I had a lot of hate directed at me in the last two days and I feel like it made me stronger. I could see why some of it was happening but other moments were completely uncalled for. It made me assess why they were projecting and I realised it had little to do with me.

It also helps that, where I work, I encounter some truly nasty pieces of work and when I'm being called a bitch I find myself remembering them and thinking "oh, honey, you don't know what bitch is. Are you ever in for a surprise." It's all relative, really. Rejection only matters if you think you really need the thing or the person you're prevented from having.

[koan]

Oh, the one exception is parents. It always seems to matter what they think, even if we know it shouldn't. But then tell yourself that though they've known you all your life they haven't been there every moment to know what you've been through.

[Ahso!]

That's true, and we can become immune to it when overplayed - our senses are able to identify trickery or abuse.

[Ahso!]

koan;1341716 wrote: Oh, the one exception is parents. It always seems to matter what they think, even if we know it shouldn't. But then tell yourself that though they've known you all your life they haven't been there every moment to know what you've been through.Plus the fact that we intuitively understand that that is where our life came from. Parents are powerful. It amazes me how much power and influence I command in the eyes of my children.

[koan]

Yeah, I try to make a point of telling my daughter how amazing a person I think she is. It's important to tell kids you love them but they figure you have to. It's important to tell them they're pretty (for girls anyway) but they figure it doesn't count cuz you're biased. But when you tell them how proud you are of them they immediately need to know why. It makes all the difference.

[Nomad]

koan;1341716 wrote: Oh, the one exception is parents. It always seems to matter what they think, even if we know it shouldn't. But then tell yourself that though they've known you all your life they haven't been there every moment to know what you've been through.


I dunno...

My parents and I had kind of a not so silent mutual rejection agreement with lifetime coverage.

[koan]

Doesn't mean it didn't matter.

[Nomad]

koan;1341751 wrote: Doesn't mean it didn't matter.


Is wistful passing thought too callous?

[koan]

Nomad;1341756 wrote: Is wistful passing thought too callous?


Sorry. It just seemed like a suitable one liner.

[TruthBringer]

For me it's very simple. There are two facets to the story. One of them involves me talking to God through my own eyes in the mirror, something I like to do very often. It ALWAYS makes me feel better no matter what I have gone through during the day.

The other involves what I am beginning to understand within myself every second of every day. Much of it is digested piece by piece, over time. Some of it is instant. But what I have come to realize is that even the things that have been given to me I will break apart until I make it in some way part of my own understanding. I believe we all do this and I believe that without this process we would never get stronger or more intelligent through experience and the understanding thereof.

[Nomad]

Well you do your daughter right by encouraging her and loving her. Thats the important thing, re-routing the cycle.

[TruthBringer]

TruthBringer;1341764 wrote: For me it's very simple. There are two facets to the story. One of them involves me talking to God through my own eyes in the mirror, something I like to do very often. It ALWAYS makes me feel better no matter what I have gone through during the day.

The other involves what I am beginning to understand within myself every second of every day. Much of it is digested piece by piece, over time. Some of it is instant. But what I have come to realize is that even the things that have been given to me I will break apart until I make it in some way part of my own understanding. I believe we all do this and I believe that without this process we would never get stronger or more intelligent through experience and the understanding thereof.


Does anyone else do the eyes thing? I've noticed It's like when I talk to God through my eyes I feel like It's looking back at me somehow.....weird I know but it's true. And it's not a bad feeling at all. In fact it's wonderful. Best word to describe it.

[Nomad]

TruthBringer;1341764 wrote: For me it's very simple. There are two facets to the story. One of them involves me talking to God through my own eyes in the mirror, something I like to do very often. It ALWAYS makes me feel better no matter what I have gone through during the day.

The other involves what I am beginning to understand within myself every second of every day. Much of it is digested piece by piece, over time. Some of it is instant. But what I have come to realize is that even the things that have been given to me I will break apart until I make it in some way part of my own understanding. I believe we all do this and I believe that without this process we would never get stronger or more intelligent through experience and the understanding thereof.


If you can understand what is rolling around within you every second of every day my hat is off to you. Personally it exhausts me although I do try to keep a pretty close reign on my development I find that down time and not thinking are essential elements in achieving piece of mind which is pretty much the constant goal.

[koan]

Nomad;1341765 wrote: Well you do your daughter right by encouraging her and loving her. Thats the important thing, re-routing the cycle.
It's the least I can do for her, given what she's likely to inherit. LOL

[Nomad]

koan;1341769 wrote: It's the least I can do for her, given what she's likely to inherit. LOL


Thats the kicker. Im me but so much of me is what my parents were and are. The good and the bad. Freaking genetics.....it just burns my ass.

[TruthBringer]

Nomad;1341768 wrote: If you can understand what is rolling around within you every second of every day my hat is off to you. Personally it exhausts me although I do try to keep a pretty close reign on my development I find that down time and not thinking are essential elements in achieving piece of mind which is pretty much the constant goal.


Right I didn't mean I am always constantly aware of it it's more of an automated process that we all go through I was just saying that I have started to become more in tune with it on an inner level related to how I perceive my own version of what the World is becoming, etc. And how it is effecting me, etc. And how I am effecting it, etc.

I understand the value of meditation and trying to "empty your glass", but I find myself meditating in a different way all-together. Almost like one of those machines that is tied together to another machine and the water is going through both machines but one side is being purified and being given to the other side whereas the other side is dirty and in need of being purified. I can't really explain it more deeply than that.

[Nomad]

TruthBringer;1341771 wrote: Right I didn't mean I am always constantly aware of it it's more of an automated process that we all go through I was just saying that I have started to become more in tune with it on an inner level related to how I perceive my own version of what the World is becoming, etc. And how it is effecting me, etc. And how I am effecting it, etc.


Thats great. I mean if were not evolving whats the point. I would love to be someone else for just one day to make a comparison on anothers thought processes, interpretation and perceptions. It appears to me there are a lot of people out there content to talk about how yummy fig newtons are with milk. It drives me insane. I dont know...maybe life should be simple and easy but Im certainly not wired that way. Im never content with where I am in terms of where I think I can go.

[TruthBringer]

Nomad;1341774 wrote: Thats great. I mean if were not evolving whats the point. I would love to be someone else for just one day to make a comparison on anothers thought processes, interpretation and perceptions. It appears to me there are a lot of people out there content to talk about how yummy fig newtons are with milk. It drives me insane. I dont know...maybe life should be simple and easy but Im certainly not wired that way. Im never content with where I am in terms of where I think I can go.


One of the biggest hurdles I have had to learn to get over in my Life is the belief that every one else already knows. In fact I read in a very good book about Astrology for myself where it said that "don't assume that everyone already knows." That hit me like a ton of bricks.

Because sometimes I really do find myself falling into the trap of believing that all Human Beings already know what I have thought of, done what I have done, seen what I have seen, and experienced what I have experienced. When the truth is, like you said, all of us have our own unique thoughts and perceptions.

I believe most people fall into that trap and that is why we don't share things with each other as often as we should. That and society has totally corrupted this process as well. Which is something I will never respect it for.

[Nomad]

TruthBringer;1341775 wrote: One of the biggest hurdles I have had to learn to get over in my Life is the belief that every one else already knows. In fact I read in a very good book about Astrology for myself where it said that "don't assume that everyone already knows." That hit me like a ton of bricks.

Because sometimes I really do find myself falling into the trap of believing that all Human Beings already know what I have thought of, done what I have done, seen what I have seen, and experienced what I have experienced. When the truth is, like you said, all of us have our own unique thoughts and perceptions.

I believe most people fall into that trap and that is why we don't share things with each other as often as we should. That and society has totally corrupted this process as well. Which is something I will never respect it for.


I whole heartedly agree. I experience this doubt frequently but I dont have a defined conviction. Im leaning toward self reliance with the belief that my higher power guides me through my inner voice. Ive always assumed "they" knew what I didnt know but Im not a lamb. I fight everything so I resist and reject those things I myself cant comprehend because I havent witnessed these things as a definitive truth and Im mistrustful of those that claim divine knowledge. Mainly because there are so may people out there with vastly different divine knowledge. So here I am, a turtle plodding along.

[TruthBringer]

Nomad;1341777 wrote: I whole heartedly agree. I experience this doubt frequently but I dont have a defined conviction. Im leaning toward self reliance with the belief that my higher power guides me through my inner voice. Ive always assumed "they" knew what I didnt know but Im not a lamb. I fight everything so I resist and reject those things I myself cant comprehend because I havent witnessed these things as a definitive truth and Im mistrustful of those that claim divine knowledge. Mainly because there are so may people out there with vastly different divine knowledge. So here I am, a turtle plodding along.


As a small recommendation from a person who also understands the awakening process, I would first recommend starting at the point where you realize that ALL awareness, ALL knowledge, is Divine.

[TruthBringer]

TruthBringer;1341787 wrote: As a small recommendation from a person who also understands the awakening process, I would first recommend starting at the point where you realize that ALL awareness, ALL knowledge, is Divine.


People can break it all into strands and try to make fun of this piece or that piece, but the simple fact is that at that point they are not learning anything at all, but they are simply observing. And the observation process and the awareness process are two different things.

[flopstock]

Nomad;1341774 wrote: Thats great. I mean if were not evolving whats the point. I would love to be someone else for just one day to make a comparison on anothers thought processes, interpretation and perceptions. It appears to me there are a lot of people out there content to talk about how yummy fig newtons are with milk. It drives me insane. I dont know...maybe life should be simple and easy but Im certainly not wired that way. Im never content with where I am in terms of where I think I can go.


I can't help but feel fig newtons are unfairly blamed, far too often, for things completely beyond their control. I've personally always assumed that folks whose road of curiosity stops at the door of favorite dunking materials and other items requiring similar deep thought - have arrived at the safest place for their mind to wander.

Now... my dog, having accomplished that for which she awakened me.. is asking to be let back in...

Nite:yh_sleep

[TruthBringer]

flopstock;1341807 wrote: I can't help but feel fig newtons are unfairly blamed, far too often, for things completely beyond their control. I've personally always assumed that folks whose road of curiosity stops at the door of favorite dunking materials and other items requiring similar deep thought - have arrived at the safest place for their mind to wander.

Now... my dog, having accomplished that for which she awakened me.. is asking to be let back in...

Nite:yh_sleep


After all, next to Angels, we are God's second highest creation at least according to both of the biggest World religions. I tend to think that if something is uniform in both of them than it is probably closest to the Truth. Keep in mind that this doesn't mean we are better than any other creation in existence, it only means that we are higher in our vibration and therefore in our ability to grow and experience.

Surely only focusing on fig newtons tasting good with milk is something for the dogs to decipher more than it is for us. Considering they also value the taste of their own dung, and everything else that's edible and won't kill them. Although sometimes that sense of awareness even seems to fail them.

[nok]

Rejection ? yes, I agree that rejection can make a person feel really low. Another one is being ignored. When someone I know or think of as a friend or think that person is nice or kind and they ignore me, it makes me feel really sad. A professor that I knew back in my college days said that there is nothing worse than being ignored.

Anyone else here agree with me that being ignored can make you feel really low ?

[Ahso!]

nok;1341984 wrote: Rejection ? yes, I agree that rejection can make a person feel really low. Another one is being ignored. When someone I know or think of as a friend or think that person is nice or kind and they ignore me, it makes me feel really sad. A professor that I knew back in my college days said that there is nothing worse than being ignored.

Anyone else here agree with me that being ignored can make you feel really low ?Thanks for bringing this thread back on topic. I think being ignored can be internalized as rejection, at least thats how I internalize it.

[flopstock]

Fact of the matter is that folks tell other folks to leave them alone all the time. They don't really mean it.

If you actually take the complaint at face value and avoid or ignore these folks, they decide that you are rude and unfeeling. Go figure.. by my book, I'm being overly sensitive.

I don't ignore you. Don't agree with you very often, but I pay attention to you.:-6

[Ahso!]

flopstock;1342021 wrote: Fact of the matter is that folks tell other folks to leave them alone all the time. They don't really mean it.

If you actually take the complaint at face value and avoid or ignore these folks, they decide that you are rude and unfeeling. Go figure.. by my book, I'm being overly sensitive.Its funny how people deal with rejection, whether its real or not. Our defense mechanism often is to go on the offense. Its the perception of rejection thats important to understand, I think.

In mother/infant observations the reactions of the infant when the mother ignores it for even very short periods of time is obvious. Did you know that for the first 6 months of life the female monkey does not lose physical contact with its young, they say not even for a minute, unless of course of unusual circumstances beyond the control of the mother? Humans, on the other hand, due to many reasons from having to earn a living to not wanting the child, personally abandon the physical contact needs of the infant immediately after birth when the child goes from the birth canal, not to the mothers breast, but to the nurse clearing the throat and putting drops in the eyes and so forth. Then the infant goes into another room to sleep after spending a few minutes usually with the mother. That process then makes it easier for the mother to justify what comes thereafter.

flopstock;1342021 wrote: I don't ignore you. Don't agree with you very often, but I pay attention to you.:-6How could you not agree with my posts, are you aware how much thought I put into them?

[fuzzywuzzy]

Ahso!;1341710 wrote: What action by others, be they close or not, makes you feel low and in the gutter most?

I'll give some options to choose from.

1) rejection

2) rejection

3) rejection

4) rejection

For me the answer is rejection, and the question is: why?

I think the low feelings associated with rejection is an adaptation (anyone surprised?). I think grouping is such a strong force in us that when threatened through rejection we become depressed, and since depression is an adaptation which tells us to slow down and think deeply about what we are doing, they work hand-in-hand.

Mothers, fathers, girlfriends, boyfriends, husbands, wives, friends and even pets use the threat of rejection as a method of manipulation.

See how much sense evolution makes?


What makes you feel like you're in the gutter ?........ Being told by you're husband that he "dragged you up from the gutter." will make you feel horrible. But I suppose that was the point of him tellin gme this . In hindsight it was the reverse.