Do ya think this kid's parents might have overreacted, a bit?

Post by **LarsMac** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:21 pm

Dad: School allowed boy to make mask that looks like Ku Klux Klan hood

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:46 pm

The poor kid must have been devastated by the mother's reaction, he may have been rather proud of himself up to that point.

Post by **LarsMac** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:56 pm

Ahso!;1337084 wrote: The poor kid must have been devastated by the mother's reaction, he may have been rather proud of himself up to that point.

That was one of my first thoughts.

Unless, of course, the little piker knew exactly what he was doing, and couldn't wait to get home to see his mom freak!

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:43 pm

The teacher might say that it was not the intention of the project but he must have know the connotations and the likely reaction to them.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:51 pm

Bryn Mawr;1337104 wrote: The teacher might say that it was not the intention of the project but he must have know the connotations and the likely reaction to them.

I disagree

For 30 years, Gordon’s done the mask project without complaint.

And I'll send you a dollar if the parents haven't filed suit (or attempted to file) within a year.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:53 pm

To be honest I think that's darn fine motor skills there. Why are we expecting a six year old to know about these things and why is it the teachers job to explain the history of Blacks in the US ? Just let the kid go FFS. He was probably very proud of it.

along-for-the-ride · Post by **along-for-the-ride** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:22 pm

Bryn Mawr;1337104 wrote: The teacher might say that it was not the intention of the project but he must have know the connotations and the likely reaction to them.

The "connotations and the likely reactions" should be the insentive for another learning experience for the child. He just made a mask in the shape of a cone. The children were just making masks in different shapes. Now that there is this negative reaction to his project, he may need to understand the reasoning behind this reaction.....in terms a 6 year old child can understand. JMO

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:54 pm

flopstock;1337107 wrote: I disagree

And I'll send you a dollar if the parents haven't filed suit (or attempted to file) within a year.

Are you suggesting the the teacher would not have known the connotations?

Given the connotations the likely reactions follow as an inevitable possibility - you dress a child up as a KKK member then the possibility of a parent objecting is quite high, surely?

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:56 pm

along-for-the-ride;1337111 wrote: The "connotations and the likely reactions" should be the insentive for another learning experience for the child. He just made a mask in the shape of a cone. The children were just making masks in different shapes. Now that there is this negative reaction to his project, he may need to understand the reasoning behind this reaction.....in terms a 6 year old child can understand. JMO

Totally agree - there is no way the child would have had a clue and the reason for the reaction needs to be explained to him.

Post by **LarsMac** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:19 pm

Bryn Mawr;1337118 wrote: Are you suggesting the the teacher would not have known the connotations?

Given the connotations the likely reactions follow as an inevitable possibility - you dress a child up as a KKK member then the possibility of a parent objecting is quite high, surely?

I have been around the KKK, and even after reading the article, and seeing the picture of the boy in his artwork, I had a hard time seeing the connection.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:27 pm

It looks more like something from SNL or a bad 50's movie costume than anything else to me. The dead giveaway is the fact that the boy colored the thing - its not pure white.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:33 pm

What we have to do here is assume that All Blacks see All triangles and the colour white as offensive. So what? don't paint your house white if it has a pointed roof?

Post by **LarsMac** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:50 pm

Surely this kid is not the first black kid to ever go to school and take this guy's art class in Fort Scott, Kansas.

?

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:54 pm

Ahso!;1337148 wrote: It looks more like something from SNL or a bad 50's movie costume than anything else to me. The dead giveaway is the fact that the boy colored the thing - its not pure white.

the coneheads!

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:02 am

LarsMac;1337144 wrote: I have been around the KKK, and even after reading the article, and seeing the picture of the boy in his artwork, I had a hard time seeing the connection.

Ignore me - I must have been watching too many bad films and pick up a wrong stereotype.

The image I'm used to is :-

Adapted to suit paper rather than cloth I'd have thought it was pretty close.

Attached files

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:04 am

LarsMac;1337162 wrote: Surely this kid is not the first black kid to ever go to school and take this guy's art class in Fort Scott, Kansas.

?

Does the fact he's done it before make it right that he should do it?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:33 am

LarsMac;1337162 wrote: Surely this kid is not the first black kid to ever go to school and take this guy's art class in Fort Scott, Kansas.

?Is he black?

I notice that no one asked the kid what the mask was. My first impression (and I come from KlanLand) was of a princess with a veil.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:18 am

Bryn Mawr;1337104 wrote: The teacher might say that it was not the intention of the project but he must have know the connotations and the likely reaction to them.

All the 'connotations' are learned, the parents and the teacher have 'learned' those connotations.

To the boy it was a funny hat, nothing more, now he has 'learned' the 'connotations' and the circle continues

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:50 am

Bruv;1337199 wrote: All the 'connotations' are learned, the parents and the teacher have 'learned' those connotations.

To the boy it was a funny hat, nothing more, now he has 'learned' the 'connotations' and the circle continues

Certainly, no one is suggesting that the boy knew the connotations.

All connotations are learned, they are cultural and not intrinsic, but they exist and have meaning. The hat is too close to the stereotypical pictures of the KKK for it to come as a shock that it was interpreted that way.

This is the third or fourth thread this year relating to mock KKK uniforms being made and worn in the Southeastern states. All have been passed off as innocent but it's not as if the real thing is that far behind us - especially given the incident with the noose at the school campus.

At one time the KKK claimed 15% of the population as members, is it dead now? Even if it is it will take a long time for those it victimised to forget - and the frequency of these "innocent" reminders suggests that there are those that do not want that to happen.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:05 am

Bryn Mawr;1337204 wrote: Certainly, no one is suggesting that the boy knew the connotations.

All connotations are learned, they are cultural and not intrinsic, but they exist and have meaning. The hat is too close to the stereotypical pictures of the KKK for it to come as a shock that it was interpreted that way.

This is the third or fourth thread this year relating to mock KKK uniforms being made and worn in the Southeastern states. All have been passed off as innocent but it's not as if the real thing is that far behind us - especially given the incident with the noose at the school campus.

At one time the KKK claimed 15% of the population as members, is it dead now? Even if it is it will take a long time for those it victimised to forget - and the frequency of these "innocent" reminders suggests that there are those that do not want that to happen.I'm curious to know how you think the teacher should have handled the situation after he walked over to the kid's desk and saw what he had created.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:16 am

Here is what we need to see

Students designed their own masks with paper. Gordon showed them a poster with different masks from around the world to give the children ideas. For 30 years, Gordon’s done the mask project without complaint.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:02 am

People will always find offense if they try hard enough.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:59 am

Accountable;1337197 wrote: Is he black?

I notice that no one asked the kid what the mask was. My first impression (and I come from KlanLand) was of a princess with a veil.

No it's a hijab.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:02 am

Ahso!;1337206 wrote: I'm curious to know how you think the teacher should have handled the situation after he walked over to the kid's desk and saw what he had created.

As Flops said, they were prompted in their choice by being shown a poster of examples. It's down to what the original looked like as to whether we're reading too much into it or not.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:41 pm

Bryn Mawr;1337262 wrote: As Flops said, they were prompted in their choice by being shown a poster of examples. It's down to what the original looked like as to whether we're reading too much into it or not.

I went looking

Dad: School allowed boy to make mask that looks like Ku Klux Klan hood - NBCActionNews.com - Kansas City

click on the video to the left of the story. approximately half way through, you can see the poster.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:07 pm

flopstock;1337306 wrote: I went looking

Dad: School allowed boy to make mask that looks like Ku Klux Klan hood - NBCActionNews.com - Kansas City

click on the video to the left of the story. approximately half way through, you can see the poster.

Shame they don't show all of it. Cannot tell what examples were on the rest of it.

Post by **LarsMac** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:15 pm

Bryn Mawr;1337183 wrote: Ignore me - I must have been watching too many bad films and pick up a wrong stereotype.

The image I'm used to is :-

Adapted to suit paper rather than cloth I'd have thought it was pretty close.

Except the Klan boys would not color theirs.

And the cone has been around a lot longer than the Klan.

I can see where the dad may have been primed to react so, but really, it is like the swastika.

It was around long before the Bavarian boys adapted it for their symbol, but now many people will have a knee-jerk reaction when they see one.

Does that mean no one should ever use the thing, again?

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:30 pm

LarsMac;1337318 wrote: Except the Klan boys would not color theirs.

True, but remembering that the child did not know that, the question remains as to what his prototype was.

The suggestion is not that the child was a Klan boy - after he'd made the hood nobody would have stopped him colouring it. The question is what prompted him to make in in that pattern and whether that prompt was Klan based.

Post by **LarsMac** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:37 pm

Bryn Mawr;1337324 wrote: True, but remembering that the child did not know that, the question remains as to what his prototype was.

The suggestion is not that the child was a Klan boy - after he'd made the hood nobody would have stopped him colouring it. The question is what prompted him to make in in that pattern and whether that prompt was Klan based.

One possiblity:

The parents just watch a movie a couple of nights before which had Klan type costumes in it.

"O Brother, Where art Though" for instance.

And the image imprinted on the kids mind.

So, it's the Parents' fault?

Who knows?

I am pretty sure the teacher or the scholl never made the connection.

Funny thing about human psycology. You just never know what might trigger an emotional response.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:38 pm

I look at it now and think he was trying to make a knight hat (helmet) the way it looks.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:53 pm

LarsMac;1337328 wrote: One possiblity:

The parents just watch a movie a couple of nights before which had Klan type costumes in it.

"O Brother, Where art Though" for instance.

And the image imprinted on the kids mind. That's a good point, it could have been even months or years since he was exposed to the images, that's what deja vu is. No matter how you look at it, the parents over reacted. Their focus was not on their child's creativity.

LarsMac;1337328 wrote: So, it's the Parents' fault?

Who knows?

I am pretty sure the teacher or the school never made the connection.

Funny thing about human psychology. You just never know what might trigger an emotional response.Even if a faculty member had made the connection, how should they have handled it? I think ignoring it would have been the best thing to do.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:03 pm

I'm fairly certain that had that poster contained a klan hood, the cameraman would have done a closeup.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:14 pm

flopstock;1337338 wrote: I'm fairly certain that had that poster contained a klan hood, the cameraman would have done a closeup.

Given the level of denial I'm seeing here I'm begining to doubt it.

To see a knight's helm in a conical hat or to suggest the coincidence of a film might have been on the box the night before so as to not admit even the possibility of a Klan connection suggests selective blindness.

I'm a total outsider to the Klan yet it was the first image the photo' brought to mind.

All I've seen here is a total denial of any possibility of a connection.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:22 pm

Bryn Mawr;1337341 wrote: Given the level of denial I'm seeing here I'm begining to doubt it.

To see a knight's helm in a conical hat or to suggest the coincidence of a film might have been on the box the night before so as to not admit even the possibility of a Klan connection suggests selective blindness.

I'm a total outsider to the Klan yet it was the first image the photo' brought to mind.

All I've seen here is a total denial of any possibility of a connection.What exactly is it we are all in denial of, Bryn? We're making connections as to why the kid may have chosen that shape. What are you looking for anyone to say? That the teacher and everyone who kept their thoughts to themselves are closet wannabe KKK members, or secretly racist?

Given your assumptions, how would you have handled it had you been that teacher?

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:37 pm

Ahso!;1337346 wrote: What exactly is it we are all in denial of, Bryn? We're making connections as to why the kid may have chosen that shape. What are you looking for anyone to say? That the teacher and everyone who kept their thoughts to themselves are closet wannabe KKK members, or secretly racist?

Given your assumptions, how would you have handled it had you been that teacher?

I was not looking for anyone to say anything, however, as the thread has gone on I've been surprised at the way it's developed.

I'd expect an acceptance of the possibility that the shape might have been chosen as a result of a prompt that came out of the classroom - I've seen every possibility other than that suggested.

That's what led to the comment about denial - that is how it appears from the outside, that even the possibility is being shut out.

As to how I'd have handled it - I do not know how the teacher introduced it so how can I tell how I'd have reacted, it's too dependant of the initial prompt.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:20 pm

Bryn Mawr;1337353 wrote: I was not looking for anyone to say anything, however, as the thread has gone on I've been surprised at the way it's developed.

I'd expect an acceptance of the possibility that the shape might have been chosen as a result of a prompt that came out of the classroom - I've seen every possibility other than that suggested.

That's what led to the comment about denial - that is how it appears from the outside, that even the possibility is being shut out.

As to how I'd have handled it - I do not know how the teacher introduced it so how can I tell how I'd have reacted, it's too dependant of the initial prompt.Well, you've made the suggestion, why is that not good enough? Why does it need to be an American to raise that possibility?

I seriously doubt any faculty member had anything to do with the hat/mask/helmet or whatever it is on any conscious level. Teachers jobs are fragile in the US presently. It is possible I suppose that the children conspired to raise the ire of the adults thus manipulating their emotions, but that idea is highly improbable IMO. Are you suspicious the parents put their son up to this, it being a political year?

Regardless of what the thing looks like, there was most likely no ill intent involved. If I'm wrong about that I'm sure it will come out as the media is now doing its circus act around it.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:23 pm

There are comments on the story that indicate another child came home the same day with a beak and yet another was a dinosaur

Someone call PETA

Post by **LarsMac** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:34 pm

Bryn Mawr;1337341 wrote: Given the level of denial I'm seeing here I'm begining to doubt it.

To see a knight's helm in a conical hat or to suggest the coincidence of a film might have been on the box the night before so as to not admit even the possibility of a Klan connection suggests selective blindness.

I'm a total outsider to the Klan yet it was the first image the photo' brought to mind.

All I've seen here is a total denial of any possibility of a connection.

I am certainly not denying the possible connection, I am simply not seeing it.

I've seen Klan hoods, up close and personal. Some of my family were members.

Pointy cap, and pointy cap. Ok, so there is a similarity.

But the Klan would get all bent outa shape if someone painted colors on one of their hoodies. The WHITE is significant.

Perhaps you need to be a total outsider to get the connection. I dunno.

The DAD certainly appears to qualify, there.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:08 am

White teacher sees black child in whitish pointed cap and racism doesn't enter his mind. ( I think if it had, he would never have let the child wear it home as PC as it has become).

Black father sees black child in whitish pointed hat: It's the klan!

Its the hypersensitivity that keeps racism alive.JMO.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:26 am

YZGI;1337509 wrote: White teacher sees black child in whitish pointed cap and racism doesn't enter his mind. ( I think if it had, he would never have let the child wear it home as PC as it has become).

Black father sees black child in whitish pointed hat: It's the klan!

Its the hypersensitivity that keeps racism alive.JMO.Its the Lenny Bruce theory of in your face saturation with everything of civilization's dark side in order to make lite of.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:36 am

Ahso!;1337515 wrote: Its the Lenny Bruce theory of in your face saturation with everything of civilization's dark side in order to make lite of.

By the way Ahso, good to see you around again.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:41 am

YZGI;1337518 wrote: By the way Ahso, good to see you around again.That's nice of you - thanks.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:31 pm

"Dark" side? DARK side??!? Why do you have to equate everything negative with the "dark" race??

I'm calling the police!

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:35 pm

Accountable;1337619 wrote: "Dark" side? DARK side??!? Why do you have to equate everything negative with the "dark" race??

I'm calling the police!

More to the point, why are bad things "sinister" and good "dexterous"?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:35 pm

Bryn Mawr;1337622 wrote: More to the point, why are bad things "sinister" and good "dexterous"?
Um:-3

brb .............................. dictionary.com .................................

Yeh! Bryn's right! ... :-2 erm, I mean he's correct.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 12:05 am

I'm lost.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 1:23 am

Ahso!;1337657 wrote: I'm lost.

Sinister = left handed

Dexterous = right handed

I'm left handed

WHY AM I BEING VICTIMISED? :yh_rotfl:wah::yh_rotfl

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:45 am

Bryn Mawr;1337659 wrote: Sinister = left handed

Dexterous = right handed

I'm left handed

WHY AM I BEING VICTIMISED? :yh_rotfl:wah::yh_rotfl
'Cause you deserve it, ya leftist! :wah:

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:56 am

Accountable;1337679 wrote: 'Cause you deserve it, ya leftist! :wah:

I deserve nothing but the best - I am not gauche (well, not much anyway) ... you know, I'm running out of languages here, there's no more links left, ah well, any port in a storm :yh_rotfl