I think he hits it right on the money, Americas lack of foresight and planning for the future is going to lead us to the 3rd world. This sickens me to no end.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/26/opini ... yt&emc=rss
Friedman. Alarmist or close to the bullseye.
Friedman. Alarmist or close to the bullseye.
Scrat;1335246 wrote: I think he hits it right on the money, Americas lack of foresight and planning for the future is going to lead us to the 3rd world. This sickens me to no end.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/26/opini ... yt&emc=rss
Almost spat out the dummy when I saw the name friedman. Thought it was going to be a eulogy for the theories of Milton Friedman.. Americans don't lack the foresight and planning for the future the problem is the accountants and economists took over and people started listening to them and going after short term gain without thinking if the long term consequences, they looked at the price they could get and forget that price and value are not always the same. I would lay a lot of blame on monetarism and the notion that the supply of money was all that mattered and that agriculture and industry was it's servant. In the UK we had Thatcher and the ludicrous notion that we could survive as a service economy- servicing what? no one seemed to ever ask that question in the corridors of power. Government seen as an end in itself rather than a servant.
You might find this interesting. Same theme different country.
YouTube - Tony Benn -- The issue is Thatcher
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/26/opini ... yt&emc=rss
Almost spat out the dummy when I saw the name friedman. Thought it was going to be a eulogy for the theories of Milton Friedman.. Americans don't lack the foresight and planning for the future the problem is the accountants and economists took over and people started listening to them and going after short term gain without thinking if the long term consequences, they looked at the price they could get and forget that price and value are not always the same. I would lay a lot of blame on monetarism and the notion that the supply of money was all that mattered and that agriculture and industry was it's servant. In the UK we had Thatcher and the ludicrous notion that we could survive as a service economy- servicing what? no one seemed to ever ask that question in the corridors of power. Government seen as an end in itself rather than a servant.
You might find this interesting. Same theme different country.
YouTube - Tony Benn -- The issue is Thatcher
Friedman. Alarmist or close to the bullseye.
Scrat;1335246 wrote: I think he hits it right on the money, Americas lack of foresight and planning for the future is going to lead us to the 3rd world. This sickens me to no end.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/26/opini ... yt&emc=rss
Friedman's right on target. Good piece.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/26/opini ... yt&emc=rss
Friedman's right on target. Good piece.
Friedman. Alarmist or close to the bullseye.
gmc;1335257 wrote: Almost spat out the dummy when I saw the name friedman. Thought it was going to be a eulogy for the theories of Milton Friedman.. Americans don't lack the foresight and planning for the future the problem is the accountants and economists took over and people started listening to them and going after short term gain without thinking if the long term consequences, they looked at the price they could get and forget that price and value are not always the same. I would lay a lot of blame on monetarism and the notion that the supply of money was all that mattered and that agriculture and industry was it's servant. In the UK we had Thatcher and the ludicrous notion that we could survive as a service economy- servicing what? no one seemed to ever ask that question in the corridors of power. Government seen as an end in itself rather than a servant.
You might find this interesting. Same theme different country.
YouTube - Tony Benn -- The issue is Thatcher
You guys need to get over Thatcher and move on, Brother.
As another famous Brit once said, "What's done 'tis done."
Just like America needs to get over all the morons we have have put in office the last few decades, and get back to doing what we used to do best.
I just hope that's still possible.
This guy makes some good points.
We can bask in our former glory, and complain about the way things have changed, like that bunch of old farts at the local diner, or we can get off our butts and go back to work.
But, if we wait much longer, it's gonna be too late. I don't want our grandkids inheriting a nation of has-beens. How about you?
You might find this interesting. Same theme different country.
YouTube - Tony Benn -- The issue is Thatcher
You guys need to get over Thatcher and move on, Brother.
As another famous Brit once said, "What's done 'tis done."
Just like America needs to get over all the morons we have have put in office the last few decades, and get back to doing what we used to do best.
I just hope that's still possible.
This guy makes some good points.
We can bask in our former glory, and complain about the way things have changed, like that bunch of old farts at the local diner, or we can get off our butts and go back to work.
But, if we wait much longer, it's gonna be too late. I don't want our grandkids inheriting a nation of has-beens. How about you?
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Friedman. Alarmist or close to the bullseye.
We can bask in our former glory, and complain about the way things have changed, like that bunch of old farts at the local diner, or we can get off our butts and go back to work.
I'm an electromachinist with 28 years of experience in building, maintaining and repairing just about everything from toilets to aircraft instrumentation and missile systems. There's not much I haven't gotten my lands on these last few decades. I am licensed for plumbing, electrical and HVAC. In june of this year I replaced both head gaskets on my Toyota truck with my own hands a manual and the tools I had in the closet. The only thing I couldn't do was machine the heads so I had to take them to the shop. 3000 miles and no problems so far.
Guess what I do for a living now? I help sort shoes in a freaking warehouse for $9 an hour. I do get gigs that pay better from time to time by my own initiative though. I've put in easily 250 to 300 applications/resumes at various places. I have gotten 3 responses. One of them was working for a company that builds/reconditions guided missiles. They offered me 13 dollars an hour. I walked out. Another one was an assembly line job for less. I was smarter than the "engineer" I was talking to in the interview.
I'm going to complain about the way things have changed, about how America doesn't do anything great anymore. No great works of architecture, no space program, no cures for disease. Hell the last miracle drug I heard of was Viagra. We're rapidly getting to the point we can't even take care of ourselves.
Don't go saying people shouldn't complain and should get to work, I think we need to start tearing things up.
I'm an electromachinist with 28 years of experience in building, maintaining and repairing just about everything from toilets to aircraft instrumentation and missile systems. There's not much I haven't gotten my lands on these last few decades. I am licensed for plumbing, electrical and HVAC. In june of this year I replaced both head gaskets on my Toyota truck with my own hands a manual and the tools I had in the closet. The only thing I couldn't do was machine the heads so I had to take them to the shop. 3000 miles and no problems so far.
Guess what I do for a living now? I help sort shoes in a freaking warehouse for $9 an hour. I do get gigs that pay better from time to time by my own initiative though. I've put in easily 250 to 300 applications/resumes at various places. I have gotten 3 responses. One of them was working for a company that builds/reconditions guided missiles. They offered me 13 dollars an hour. I walked out. Another one was an assembly line job for less. I was smarter than the "engineer" I was talking to in the interview.
I'm going to complain about the way things have changed, about how America doesn't do anything great anymore. No great works of architecture, no space program, no cures for disease. Hell the last miracle drug I heard of was Viagra. We're rapidly getting to the point we can't even take care of ourselves.
Don't go saying people shouldn't complain and should get to work, I think we need to start tearing things up.
Friedman. Alarmist or close to the bullseye.
In the UK we had Thatcher and the ludicrous notion that we could survive as a service economy- servicing what? no one seemed to ever ask that question in the corridors of power. Government seen as an end in itself rather than a servant.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Friedman. Alarmist or close to the bullseye.
LarsMac;1335269 wrote: You guys need to get over Thatcher and move on, Brother.
As another famous Brit once said, "What's done 'tis done."
Just like America needs to get over all the morons we have have put in office the last few decades, and get back to doing what we used to do best.
I just hope that's still possible.
This guy makes some good points.
We can bask in our former glory, and complain about the way things have changed, like that bunch of old farts at the local diner, or we can get off our butts and go back to work.
But, if we wait much longer, it's gonna be too late. I don't want our grandkids inheriting a nation of has-beens. How about you?
come off it we're entitled to a good hatefest. Our electoral system is badly flawed, thatcher got in with 100% of the power and about a third of the overall vote, Blair and brown it was much the same. A lot of our problems are due to the economic policies and attitudes of the reagan/ thatcher era and the widespread acceptance of monetarism. Until we face up to that and accept the reality of what was wrong wwe won't move on.
All we get from our politicians is the same insane panglossian repetition that all is well and nobody could have foreseen what was going to happen. Plenty did but the ones that spoke out and criticised were laughed at as being on the lunatic fringe and saw their careers scuppered.
I despise Blair almost as much as I despise Thatcher, If they're the best we can produce I despair. You can make up your own mind about Clinton and Bush. America was founded when people got pissed off with those who ruled them maybe they need to get really pissed off before things change this time. But something is badly wrong. To prevent the same mistakes being made in the future you need to understand what went wrong in the past so you can do things differently. That's true whether it's on a personal level or in a nation - but you need to have the conversation.
As another famous Brit once said, "What's done 'tis done."
Just like America needs to get over all the morons we have have put in office the last few decades, and get back to doing what we used to do best.
I just hope that's still possible.
This guy makes some good points.
We can bask in our former glory, and complain about the way things have changed, like that bunch of old farts at the local diner, or we can get off our butts and go back to work.
But, if we wait much longer, it's gonna be too late. I don't want our grandkids inheriting a nation of has-beens. How about you?
come off it we're entitled to a good hatefest. Our electoral system is badly flawed, thatcher got in with 100% of the power and about a third of the overall vote, Blair and brown it was much the same. A lot of our problems are due to the economic policies and attitudes of the reagan/ thatcher era and the widespread acceptance of monetarism. Until we face up to that and accept the reality of what was wrong wwe won't move on.
All we get from our politicians is the same insane panglossian repetition that all is well and nobody could have foreseen what was going to happen. Plenty did but the ones that spoke out and criticised were laughed at as being on the lunatic fringe and saw their careers scuppered.
I despise Blair almost as much as I despise Thatcher, If they're the best we can produce I despair. You can make up your own mind about Clinton and Bush. America was founded when people got pissed off with those who ruled them maybe they need to get really pissed off before things change this time. But something is badly wrong. To prevent the same mistakes being made in the future you need to understand what went wrong in the past so you can do things differently. That's true whether it's on a personal level or in a nation - but you need to have the conversation.
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Friedman. Alarmist or close to the bullseye.
gmc;1335257 wrote: the problem is the accountants and economists took over and people started listening to them and going after short term gain without thinking if the long term consequences, they looked at the price they could get and forget that price and value are not always the same.Agreed!
gmc wrote: Government seen as an end in itself rather than a servant.That's the primary problem in the US, as I see it.
But Friedman is talking about government once again entering into the market to manipulate it with incentives, picking winners and losers, giving our wealth to the richest .... again.
Isn't that the diet that made us sick the last time?
gmc wrote: Government seen as an end in itself rather than a servant.That's the primary problem in the US, as I see it.
But Friedman is talking about government once again entering into the market to manipulate it with incentives, picking winners and losers, giving our wealth to the richest .... again.
Isn't that the diet that made us sick the last time?
Friedman. Alarmist or close to the bullseye.
Accountable;1335446 wrote: Agreed!
That's the primary problem in the US, as I see it.
But Friedman is talking about government once again entering into the market to manipulate it with incentives, picking winners and losers, giving our wealth to the richest .... again.
Isn't that the diet that made us sick the last time?
In a capitalist economy you do need regulation, at the very least to prevent cartels and monopolies developing (how much damage did microsoft do by trying to prevent competition rather competing with it and how much better it's product would have been if it had, your car industry played the same game keeping out foreign competition rather than matching it) and powerful companies and individuals using their influence to distort the market but also to prevent companies acting irresponsibly. Arguably it was the total removal of regulation that caused all the problems. You actually had people putting the case that what microsoft was doing was just capitalism in action - it was to some extent but monopolies are anti-capitalist and will destroy the market and kill off all competition unless preventative measures are put in place.
To use your diet analogy, it was the removal of all the healthy vitamins and minerals and common sense restraint that kept things healthy in favour of a diet of junk food and super size meals. You need to be careful what kind of diet you now go on though, there are a lot of fad diets around. The trouble is the dickheads that caused it all are still being listened to as if they are some kind of economic wise man and people recite the latest brochure without actually thinking about what they are saying. The ship of state has run aground but lets' keep using the same pilot as he seems to know what he's doing seems and what went wrong to be the general attitude. If someone robs you with a gun you can tell what's happening but the biggest crooks are the ones who wear suits. They are either crooks who knew exactly what they were doing or incompetent arseholes, either way why are we listening to them? Meanwhile people are losing their jobs and homes while those at the top just get richer.
Don't know about the states but we now have banks refusing to lend to good businesses and cutting agreed over-draughts and foreclosing on loans at short notice or even none at all.
I'm depressed now.:-5:-5
That's the primary problem in the US, as I see it.
But Friedman is talking about government once again entering into the market to manipulate it with incentives, picking winners and losers, giving our wealth to the richest .... again.
Isn't that the diet that made us sick the last time?
In a capitalist economy you do need regulation, at the very least to prevent cartels and monopolies developing (how much damage did microsoft do by trying to prevent competition rather competing with it and how much better it's product would have been if it had, your car industry played the same game keeping out foreign competition rather than matching it) and powerful companies and individuals using their influence to distort the market but also to prevent companies acting irresponsibly. Arguably it was the total removal of regulation that caused all the problems. You actually had people putting the case that what microsoft was doing was just capitalism in action - it was to some extent but monopolies are anti-capitalist and will destroy the market and kill off all competition unless preventative measures are put in place.
To use your diet analogy, it was the removal of all the healthy vitamins and minerals and common sense restraint that kept things healthy in favour of a diet of junk food and super size meals. You need to be careful what kind of diet you now go on though, there are a lot of fad diets around. The trouble is the dickheads that caused it all are still being listened to as if they are some kind of economic wise man and people recite the latest brochure without actually thinking about what they are saying. The ship of state has run aground but lets' keep using the same pilot as he seems to know what he's doing seems and what went wrong to be the general attitude. If someone robs you with a gun you can tell what's happening but the biggest crooks are the ones who wear suits. They are either crooks who knew exactly what they were doing or incompetent arseholes, either way why are we listening to them? Meanwhile people are losing their jobs and homes while those at the top just get richer.
Don't know about the states but we now have banks refusing to lend to good businesses and cutting agreed over-draughts and foreclosing on loans at short notice or even none at all.
I'm depressed now.:-5:-5
Friedman. Alarmist or close to the bullseye.
gmc;1335442 wrote: come off it we're entitled to a good hatefest. Our electoral system is badly flawed, thatcher got in with 100% of the power and about a third of the overall vote, Blair and brown it was much the same. A lot of our problems are due to the economic policies and attitudes of the reagan/ thatcher era and the widespread acceptance of monetarism. Until we face up to that and accept the reality of what was wrong wwe won't move on.
All we get from our politicians is the same insane panglossian repetition that all is well and nobody could have foreseen what was going to happen. Plenty did but the ones that spoke out and criticised were laughed at as being on the lunatic fringe and saw their careers scuppered.
I despise Blair almost as much as I despise Thatcher, If they're the best we can produce I despair. You can make up your own mind about Clinton and Bush. America was founded when people got pissed off with those who ruled them maybe they need to get really pissed off before things change this time. But something is badly wrong. To prevent the same mistakes being made in the future you need to understand what went wrong in the past so you can do things differently. That's true whether it's on a personal level or in a nation - but you need to have the conversation.
We're with you, 100%.
Look what our elections have produced over the last half century, or so.
All we get from our politicians is the same insane panglossian repetition that all is well and nobody could have foreseen what was going to happen. Plenty did but the ones that spoke out and criticised were laughed at as being on the lunatic fringe and saw their careers scuppered.
I despise Blair almost as much as I despise Thatcher, If they're the best we can produce I despair. You can make up your own mind about Clinton and Bush. America was founded when people got pissed off with those who ruled them maybe they need to get really pissed off before things change this time. But something is badly wrong. To prevent the same mistakes being made in the future you need to understand what went wrong in the past so you can do things differently. That's true whether it's on a personal level or in a nation - but you need to have the conversation.
We're with you, 100%.
Look what our elections have produced over the last half century, or so.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Friedman. Alarmist or close to the bullseye.
Looks like the peasants are beginning to revolt.
BBC News - European cities hit by anti-austerity protests
BBC News - European cities hit by anti-austerity protests
Friedman. Alarmist or close to the bullseye.
What are they going to do GMC? If people really start acting up they'll call in the troops, we will have the paramilitaries and armies of the governments on the street "to keep public order" and all that.
I heard the Irish banks need another bailout. :-5
I heard the Irish banks need another bailout. :-5
Friedman. Alarmist or close to the bullseye.
It's a bit of a paradox with me on this because the more it seems people complain about our economy(US) the easier it is I can find a job, yet I know the economy is garbage right now. I've two places vying to hire me. Granted I know I don't have house payments and kids, yet, but I think that's just a matter of personal standards. Quite frankly a roof over ones head and adequate food just isn't acceptable.
A respectable apartment here will go for $450 for a two bedroom. Even with $250 added expenses per month that's $700 a month between more than likely two people, lest one be horribly lonely.
Once we understand that "poor" by the perspective of most isn't poor then we're able to truly understand what we may or may not be facing. We're not going to be a 3rd World, that's just ridiculous, we're a good 200 years from that!
A respectable apartment here will go for $450 for a two bedroom. Even with $250 added expenses per month that's $700 a month between more than likely two people, lest one be horribly lonely.
Once we understand that "poor" by the perspective of most isn't poor then we're able to truly understand what we may or may not be facing. We're not going to be a 3rd World, that's just ridiculous, we're a good 200 years from that!
Friedman. Alarmist or close to the bullseye.
Scrat;1335895 wrote: What are they going to do GMC? If people really start acting up they'll call in the troops, we will have the paramilitaries and armies of the governments on the street "to keep public order" and all that.
I heard the Irish banks need another bailout. :-5
What an odd way of looking at things. If you want to be free keep your army small. Europe isn't america there is no national guard that can be called in and used that way What you would see if they do call in troops is more and more people on the streets baying for blood and any government that tries it is likely to find itself out of office. You will see more and more demonstrations in the near future I think.
I heard the Irish banks need another bailout. :-5
What an odd way of looking at things. If you want to be free keep your army small. Europe isn't america there is no national guard that can be called in and used that way What you would see if they do call in troops is more and more people on the streets baying for blood and any government that tries it is likely to find itself out of office. You will see more and more demonstrations in the near future I think.