Another fortunately rare event:
"The mother of twin baby girls thought to have been attacked by a fox has told how she discovered them covered in blood with the animal still in their nursery"
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother - Telegraph
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
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Bill Sikes
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Peter Lake
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Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
Bill Sikes;1314263 wrote: Another fortunately rare event:
"The mother of twin baby girls thought to have been attacked by a fox has told how she discovered them covered in blood with the animal still in their nursery"
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother - Telegraph My wife is the expert of fox behaviour in this house and she's been very upset to hear of this. Her opinion is that these attacks are extremely rare and a possible cause of this would be that this could've been a vixen who has lost cubs and on hearing the baby got confused.
If the report is accurate then who in their right mind leaves windows or doors open near a baby at night if there had been other reports of foxes entering homes, let alone the dangers of having your child snatched?
We will now have the typical knee jerk reaction from the public and possibly government to cull the lot of them. Pet dogs savage and kill far more children in this country than anything else.
I've now read all the reports and i smell a rat, or should i say a dog? It's suspicious and i just hope tests were carried out at the hospital for fox saliva and that of dog before anything else is done. It was a three storey house and the mother said she went up to the nursery. So this fox, a normally timid species, not only entered a house with strange people in it but also climbed stairs? Interesting.
"The mother of twin baby girls thought to have been attacked by a fox has told how she discovered them covered in blood with the animal still in their nursery"
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother - Telegraph My wife is the expert of fox behaviour in this house and she's been very upset to hear of this. Her opinion is that these attacks are extremely rare and a possible cause of this would be that this could've been a vixen who has lost cubs and on hearing the baby got confused.
If the report is accurate then who in their right mind leaves windows or doors open near a baby at night if there had been other reports of foxes entering homes, let alone the dangers of having your child snatched?
We will now have the typical knee jerk reaction from the public and possibly government to cull the lot of them. Pet dogs savage and kill far more children in this country than anything else.
I've now read all the reports and i smell a rat, or should i say a dog? It's suspicious and i just hope tests were carried out at the hospital for fox saliva and that of dog before anything else is done. It was a three storey house and the mother said she went up to the nursery. So this fox, a normally timid species, not only entered a house with strange people in it but also climbed stairs? Interesting.
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
Peter Lake;1314281 wrote: My wife is the expert of fox behaviour in this house and she's been very upset to hear of this. Her opinion is that these attacks are extremely rare and a possible cause of this would be that this could've been a vixen who has lost cubs and on hearing the baby got confused.
If the report is accurate then who in their right mind leaves windows or doors open near a baby at night if there had been other reports of foxes entering homes, let alone the dangers of having your child snatched?
We will now have the typical knee jerk reaction from the public and possibly government to cull the lot of them. Pet dogs savage and kill far more children in this country than anything else.
I've now read all the reports and i smell a rat, or should i say a dog? It's suspicious and i just hope tests were carried out at the hospital for fox saliva and that of dog before anything else is done. It was a three storey house and the mother said she went up to the nursery. So this fox, a normally timid species, not only entered a house with strange people in it but also climbed stairs? Interesting.
I see she's still keeping herself mentally fit then. Leaping to conclusions without letting facts get in the way or even bothering to check them first. It was a hot evening and they left the doors open. To suggest that the parents faked it in some way is fairly despicable. Foxes may look cuddly are predators that will take out a small dog if they are hungry enough, come to that they will see of a larger dog if pushed. To the fox a baby would just be a small animal it could eat and it probably followed the scent.
Urban foxes have learned not to fear humans - I've had one stand staring at me from just a few feet away in a city street showing no fear at all and that's with holding a dog on a leash. (no it wasn't a small dog). You see them playing in city parks with people walking past just feet away.
Even so going in to a house is not something most people would expect a fox to do.
If the report is accurate then who in their right mind leaves windows or doors open near a baby at night if there had been other reports of foxes entering homes, let alone the dangers of having your child snatched?
We will now have the typical knee jerk reaction from the public and possibly government to cull the lot of them. Pet dogs savage and kill far more children in this country than anything else.
I've now read all the reports and i smell a rat, or should i say a dog? It's suspicious and i just hope tests were carried out at the hospital for fox saliva and that of dog before anything else is done. It was a three storey house and the mother said she went up to the nursery. So this fox, a normally timid species, not only entered a house with strange people in it but also climbed stairs? Interesting.
I see she's still keeping herself mentally fit then. Leaping to conclusions without letting facts get in the way or even bothering to check them first. It was a hot evening and they left the doors open. To suggest that the parents faked it in some way is fairly despicable. Foxes may look cuddly are predators that will take out a small dog if they are hungry enough, come to that they will see of a larger dog if pushed. To the fox a baby would just be a small animal it could eat and it probably followed the scent.
Urban foxes have learned not to fear humans - I've had one stand staring at me from just a few feet away in a city street showing no fear at all and that's with holding a dog on a leash. (no it wasn't a small dog). You see them playing in city parks with people walking past just feet away.
Even so going in to a house is not something most people would expect a fox to do.
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Peter Lake
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Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
gmc;1314551 wrote: I see she's still keeping herself mentally fit then. Leaping to conclusions without letting facts get in the way or even bothering to check them first. It was a hot evening and they left the doors open. To suggest that the parents faked it in some way is fairly despicable. Foxes may look cuddly are predators that will take out a small dog if they are hungry enough, come to that they will see of a larger dog if pushed. To the fox a baby would just be a small animal it could eat and it probably followed the scent.
Urban foxes have learned not to fear humans - I've had one stand staring at me from just a few feet away in a city street showing no fear at all and that's with holding a dog on a leash. (no it wasn't a small dog). You see them playing in city parks with people walking past just feet away.
Even so going in to a house is not something most people would expect a fox to do.
The police have since made a statement that the parents did not have a pet dog so i accept that on first reports of the story, we jumped to conclusions, but then, how many others do that based on a newspaper report?
Aside from my accepting this, you are inaccurate in your knowledge of the fox. Under no circumstances would a fox eat human meat, adult or baby.
There have only ever been two previous recorded attacks by fox and one of those was a fox trying to drag a baby away. This is why Julie is of the idea that this was a vixen looking for her cubs as the previous incident suggested. A fox would never drag a baby away to eat and i believe your confusing them with dingo's and even then evidence is sketchy when it comes to recorded attacks in Australia.
I agree that the urban fox is more daring than the red but fox is fox and all foxes are no match for a human, dog or even cat in a fight and will run from them if threatened. It's that urban foxes deal with aspects that the reds don't such as traffic noise that make them seem less timid but if threatened they'll react the same as a red and try to run.
My idea was that the fox possibly entered the house for food and hearing strangers, panicked, bolting up the stairs and into the nursery. On hearing the parents coming up the stairs, panicked further as the room was in darkness causing the injuries. I doubt we will ever know the truth but even i know this case is very rare and what we object to is the knee jerk reaction to the fox world.
Fox are opportunists if they are hungry but their basic diet is earth worms and small animals urban and red. The reason the urban is less predatory is due to the fast food outlets on every corner of every street these days along with rich pickings at the landfill tips.
To suggest that a fox can take out a small dog is not only ludicrous but the sort of myth that encourages the uneducated.
As for my wife thinking they are cuddly, then your guessing her thoughts. We both happen to share the view that every species has a right to be on this planet without persecution and the fox has been the most persecuted species in the history of this country. To even suggest a fox would go after a small baby for food when in that part of London, he has a choice of bins from food outlets is beyond belief. If it were so, these attacks would not be so rare.
I actually watched only a few nights ago a kitten no more than nine months old see off a vixen with cubs from a pile of chicken.
Urban foxes have learned not to fear humans - I've had one stand staring at me from just a few feet away in a city street showing no fear at all and that's with holding a dog on a leash. (no it wasn't a small dog). You see them playing in city parks with people walking past just feet away.
Even so going in to a house is not something most people would expect a fox to do.
The police have since made a statement that the parents did not have a pet dog so i accept that on first reports of the story, we jumped to conclusions, but then, how many others do that based on a newspaper report?
Aside from my accepting this, you are inaccurate in your knowledge of the fox. Under no circumstances would a fox eat human meat, adult or baby.
There have only ever been two previous recorded attacks by fox and one of those was a fox trying to drag a baby away. This is why Julie is of the idea that this was a vixen looking for her cubs as the previous incident suggested. A fox would never drag a baby away to eat and i believe your confusing them with dingo's and even then evidence is sketchy when it comes to recorded attacks in Australia.
I agree that the urban fox is more daring than the red but fox is fox and all foxes are no match for a human, dog or even cat in a fight and will run from them if threatened. It's that urban foxes deal with aspects that the reds don't such as traffic noise that make them seem less timid but if threatened they'll react the same as a red and try to run.
My idea was that the fox possibly entered the house for food and hearing strangers, panicked, bolting up the stairs and into the nursery. On hearing the parents coming up the stairs, panicked further as the room was in darkness causing the injuries. I doubt we will ever know the truth but even i know this case is very rare and what we object to is the knee jerk reaction to the fox world.
Fox are opportunists if they are hungry but their basic diet is earth worms and small animals urban and red. The reason the urban is less predatory is due to the fast food outlets on every corner of every street these days along with rich pickings at the landfill tips.
To suggest that a fox can take out a small dog is not only ludicrous but the sort of myth that encourages the uneducated.
As for my wife thinking they are cuddly, then your guessing her thoughts. We both happen to share the view that every species has a right to be on this planet without persecution and the fox has been the most persecuted species in the history of this country. To even suggest a fox would go after a small baby for food when in that part of London, he has a choice of bins from food outlets is beyond belief. If it were so, these attacks would not be so rare.
I actually watched only a few nights ago a kitten no more than nine months old see off a vixen with cubs from a pile of chicken.
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
Bill Sikes;1314263 wrote: Another fortunately rare event:
"The mother of twin baby girls thought to have been attacked by a fox has told how she discovered them covered in blood with the animal still in their nursery"
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother - Telegraph
Apparently, there are tons of fox's about and not uncommon to see whatsoever.
It even stayed in the room, so they are obviously tame.
how very very sad indeed.
"The mother of twin baby girls thought to have been attacked by a fox has told how she discovered them covered in blood with the animal still in their nursery"
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother - Telegraph
Apparently, there are tons of fox's about and not uncommon to see whatsoever.
It even stayed in the room, so they are obviously tame.
how very very sad indeed.
Life is just to short for drama.
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Bill Sikes
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Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
Odie;1314561 wrote: It even stayed in the room, so they are obviously tame.
Not tame, but conditioned by living in proximity to humans. The denials resound in the papers - "leading wildlife experts" are making all sorts of excuses, such as "It was a 3 or 4 month old cub attracted by the small of nappies which panicked and injured them (the babies) when it realised the nappy was attached to a baby". This is plain and utter rubbish, as the animal was seen, and the babies were not just bitten, either - they were mauled.
I am not sure why there is such denial in the face of evidence. I hope a campaign of extermination is conducted at least in that area.
Odie;1314561 wrote: how very very sad indeed.
It is.
Fox attack mother demands action against urban menace - Telegraph
Not tame, but conditioned by living in proximity to humans. The denials resound in the papers - "leading wildlife experts" are making all sorts of excuses, such as "It was a 3 or 4 month old cub attracted by the small of nappies which panicked and injured them (the babies) when it realised the nappy was attached to a baby". This is plain and utter rubbish, as the animal was seen, and the babies were not just bitten, either - they were mauled.
I am not sure why there is such denial in the face of evidence. I hope a campaign of extermination is conducted at least in that area.
Odie;1314561 wrote: how very very sad indeed.
It is.
Fox attack mother demands action against urban menace - Telegraph
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
It's terrible but I don't blame them for keeping the doors open and I don't blame the fox either. It's just been one of those thingsa s far as I can tell.
I've been feet away from a fox and they aren't scared and mayeb they are getting too used to humans they are taking chances they wouldn't ordinarilly take.
I've been feet away from a fox and they aren't scared and mayeb they are getting too used to humans they are taking chances they wouldn't ordinarilly take.
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
Bill Sikes;1314581 wrote: Not tame, but conditioned by living in proximity to humans. The denials resound in the papers - "leading wildlife experts" are making all sorts of excuses, such as "It was a 3 or 4 month old cub attracted by the small of nappies which panicked and injured them (the babies) when it realised the nappy was attached to a baby". This is plain and utter rubbish, as the animal was seen, and the babies were not just bitten, either - they were mauled.
I am not sure why there is such denial in the face of evidence. I hope a campaign of extermination is conducted at least in that area.
It is.
Fox attack mother demands action against urban menace - Telegraph
makes me wonder if people are feeding them?
IF that's the case, then they are going to have more and yes, they become tame.
either way, yes, I agree, get rid of them as they now have become a huge huge problem.
shocked this was the first attack.
I am not sure why there is such denial in the face of evidence. I hope a campaign of extermination is conducted at least in that area.
It is.
Fox attack mother demands action against urban menace - Telegraph
makes me wonder if people are feeding them?
IF that's the case, then they are going to have more and yes, they become tame.
either way, yes, I agree, get rid of them as they now have become a huge huge problem.
shocked this was the first attack.
Life is just to short for drama.
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Bill Sikes
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Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
mammy;1314583 wrote: It's terrible but I don't blame them for keeping the doors open and I don't blame the fox either.
That's the thing. If it's hot, one doesn't keep (and should not need to worry about keeping) the doors or windows open. The fox will do what is natural to it - eat. They are not always welcome in our environment.
That's the thing. If it's hot, one doesn't keep (and should not need to worry about keeping) the doors or windows open. The fox will do what is natural to it - eat. They are not always welcome in our environment.
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Bill Sikes
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Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
Odie;1314590 wrote: makes me wonder if people are feeding them?
They do. The fox is an opportunist, though, as many predators are. It will eat rubbish from dustbins or bags, too. In an urban environment fox populations may expand quite rapidly.
Odie;1314590 wrote:
IF that's the case, then they are going to have more and yes, they become tame.
Never tame - merely conditioned. "Tame" dogs kill people, for example. When the limits are blurred, foxes may become a problem, too.
Odie;1314590 wrote: either way, yes, I agree, get rid of them as they now have become a huge huge problem.
They need thinning out, definately. That would re-inforce their fear of humans, as well as make sure that there was more suitable food per head for the remaining individuals.
Odie;1314590 wrote: shocked this was the first attack.
I do not think that it was.
They do. The fox is an opportunist, though, as many predators are. It will eat rubbish from dustbins or bags, too. In an urban environment fox populations may expand quite rapidly.
Odie;1314590 wrote:
IF that's the case, then they are going to have more and yes, they become tame.
Never tame - merely conditioned. "Tame" dogs kill people, for example. When the limits are blurred, foxes may become a problem, too.
Odie;1314590 wrote: either way, yes, I agree, get rid of them as they now have become a huge huge problem.
They need thinning out, definately. That would re-inforce their fear of humans, as well as make sure that there was more suitable food per head for the remaining individuals.
Odie;1314590 wrote: shocked this was the first attack.
I do not think that it was.
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
8 yrs ago was the last attack i read.
I really don't think there is a need to go out killing foxes but if I were the mopther i'd probably be thinking differently.
I'm sure people do feed them especially when there's cubs about.
I really don't think there is a need to go out killing foxes but if I were the mopther i'd probably be thinking differently.
I'm sure people do feed them especially when there's cubs about.
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
mammy;1314620 wrote: 8 yrs ago was the last attack i read.
I really don't think there is a need to go out killing foxes but if I were the mopther i'd probably be thinking differently.
I'm sure people do feed them especially when there's cubs about.
feeding them is only encouraging them.
they should re-located, not kill them.
I really don't think there is a need to go out killing foxes but if I were the mopther i'd probably be thinking differently.
I'm sure people do feed them especially when there's cubs about.
feeding them is only encouraging them.
they should re-located, not kill them.
Life is just to short for drama.
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
Odie;1314645 wrote: feeding them is only encouraging them.
they should re-located, not kill them.
They wont be happy till all of their native species is extinct. No badgers, no foxes, the lot. Everything over here is classed as pests. Except yobs. Those are the pests that hurl rocks and other missiles at fire crewmen, paramedics and such. They do way more damage than foxes, yet no one mentions culling them. Go figure.
they should re-located, not kill them.
They wont be happy till all of their native species is extinct. No badgers, no foxes, the lot. Everything over here is classed as pests. Except yobs. Those are the pests that hurl rocks and other missiles at fire crewmen, paramedics and such. They do way more damage than foxes, yet no one mentions culling them. Go figure.
~Quoth the Raven, Nevermore!~
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Betty Boop
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Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
It's not about killing and exterminating is it, that is the kneejerk reaction that is all too common these days. It's about idiotic humans needing to change their behaviour because it is human beings that are actually forcing the animal to move away from their natural behaviour.
Different animal, well it's a bird, but take seagulls. They've always been considered a nuisance that everyone put up with around here. The flock of seagulls going mad over a ploughed field or their following a fishing boat into the harbour ten years ago was a regular sight. Not now though, the seagulls don't bother to scavenge for such pickings that come from a field or for fish guts cast aside from the boats. No, they've been trained to realise that these idiots called human beings will throw chips, pasties and other delicacies for them to eat and then oooh and ahhh at them while they do so. Holiday makers are always trying to feed them by hand :rolleyes: and even some locals put food out daily.
Don't bother to come to Cornwall and think you can enjoy eating a pasty or icecream outside in the sunshine looking at the lovely views because we are now at the point of food being stolen out of peoples hands. Your food is also not safe cooking on a hot BBQ, outdoor dining is rapidly becoming a thing of the past here. Seagulls assume you are offering them food and it is the human being that has conditioned it to think that way.
It's the same as urban foxes, it never used to be the done thing to feed the foxes, people were aware they were around and happy for them to be around and they scavenged the area and local bins. Nowadays people are feeding them close by their own houses and those that do so are conditioning the foxes into behaving in a whole new way. They don't need to go out and 'hunt' they just need to pitch up at a certain time everyday and they get their food handed to them. Foxes are being encouraged to come closer to humans and to trust humans. How many cubs are around today that have been raised thinking that it is a human that provides food. So what happens when it's regular feeder doesn't show up for a while and the animal becomes hungry, it's obviously going to head towards the place where humans are, that's all it knows. No one can blame the fox for entering a house, the only ones to blame are the humans for encouraging them to change the way they've existed for years!
Different animal, well it's a bird, but take seagulls. They've always been considered a nuisance that everyone put up with around here. The flock of seagulls going mad over a ploughed field or their following a fishing boat into the harbour ten years ago was a regular sight. Not now though, the seagulls don't bother to scavenge for such pickings that come from a field or for fish guts cast aside from the boats. No, they've been trained to realise that these idiots called human beings will throw chips, pasties and other delicacies for them to eat and then oooh and ahhh at them while they do so. Holiday makers are always trying to feed them by hand :rolleyes: and even some locals put food out daily.
Don't bother to come to Cornwall and think you can enjoy eating a pasty or icecream outside in the sunshine looking at the lovely views because we are now at the point of food being stolen out of peoples hands. Your food is also not safe cooking on a hot BBQ, outdoor dining is rapidly becoming a thing of the past here. Seagulls assume you are offering them food and it is the human being that has conditioned it to think that way.
It's the same as urban foxes, it never used to be the done thing to feed the foxes, people were aware they were around and happy for them to be around and they scavenged the area and local bins. Nowadays people are feeding them close by their own houses and those that do so are conditioning the foxes into behaving in a whole new way. They don't need to go out and 'hunt' they just need to pitch up at a certain time everyday and they get their food handed to them. Foxes are being encouraged to come closer to humans and to trust humans. How many cubs are around today that have been raised thinking that it is a human that provides food. So what happens when it's regular feeder doesn't show up for a while and the animal becomes hungry, it's obviously going to head towards the place where humans are, that's all it knows. No one can blame the fox for entering a house, the only ones to blame are the humans for encouraging them to change the way they've existed for years!
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
posted by peter lake
The police have since made a statement that the parents did not have a pet dog so i accept that on first reports of the story, we jumped to conclusions, but then, how many others do that based on a newspaper report?
Aside from my accepting this, you are inaccurate in your knowledge of the fox. Under no circumstances would a fox eat human meat, adult or baby.
That's just nonsense, meat is meat and in the right circumstances dogs, cats and foxes will eat human meat as will crow, seagulls, rats and any other opportunist scavenger. It's a wild animal for goodness sake don't eat the babies just doesn't come in to it. Dogs will rip babies to bits why do you find it hard to believe a fox wouldn't.
The police have since made a statement that the parents did not have a pet dog so i accept that on first reports of the story, we jumped to conclusions, but then, how many others do that based on a newspaper report?
Aside from my accepting this, you are inaccurate in your knowledge of the fox. Under no circumstances would a fox eat human meat, adult or baby.
That's just nonsense, meat is meat and in the right circumstances dogs, cats and foxes will eat human meat as will crow, seagulls, rats and any other opportunist scavenger. It's a wild animal for goodness sake don't eat the babies just doesn't come in to it. Dogs will rip babies to bits why do you find it hard to believe a fox wouldn't.
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
gmc;1314752 wrote: posted by peter lake
That's just nonsense, meat is meat and in the right circumstances dogs, cats and foxes will eat human meat as will crow, seagulls, rats and any other opportunist scavenger. It's a wild animal for goodness sake don't eat the babies just doesn't come in to it. Dogs will rip babies to bits why do you find it hard to believe a fox wouldn't.
As a matter of fact, it has been proven that hungry enough, a human will eat a human baby as well.
That's just nonsense, meat is meat and in the right circumstances dogs, cats and foxes will eat human meat as will crow, seagulls, rats and any other opportunist scavenger. It's a wild animal for goodness sake don't eat the babies just doesn't come in to it. Dogs will rip babies to bits why do you find it hard to believe a fox wouldn't.
As a matter of fact, it has been proven that hungry enough, a human will eat a human baby as well.
~Quoth the Raven, Nevermore!~
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
It is just a terrible terrible thing that no one in their wildest imagination could even possible begin to think could happen.
It is one of those life things where someone can only ask ‘why me?’
It is one of those life things where someone can only ask ‘why me?’
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Richard Bell
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Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
Bill Sikes;1314263 wrote:
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother - Telegraph
Damn you, Rupert Murdoch!
Damn you to hell!
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother - Telegraph
Damn you, Rupert Murdoch!
Damn you to hell!
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Bill Sikes
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Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
Richard Bell;1314856 wrote: Damn you, Rupert Murdoch!
Heh. *He* didn't bite 'em! He doesn't own "The Daily Telegraph", either, AFAIAA.
Heh. *He* didn't bite 'em! He doesn't own "The Daily Telegraph", either, AFAIAA.
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Peter Lake
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Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
Betty, your post is the most sensible that i've seen and heard including all the debates now going on in the media.
Raven, i agree with you.
gmc, would you not imagine given the mass hysteria in our press over this attack that newspapers would be screaming should any fox have taken a baby and eaten it? There has never been the slightest inclination from fox to eat human meat or do you have a link to prove otherwise?
There have only ever been two other recorded attacks on humans and the word 'attack' being the vocabulary used by the press. Since this attack took place there has been much scrutiny given to the two prior attacks recorded and it's now been determined that those attacks were made after all by dogs, making this attack unique.
Let's put this unique attack into perspective for a moment rather than the bigoted claptrap i've seen over the past two days.
We were not alone in initially believing that this was a dog after speaking to many who know the fox well as they thought the same thing due to the rarity of fox attacks and pet dog attacks being common.
We have very few indiginous species here and never have to contend with mountain cats or grizzly in the states, spiders in Australia, snakes in India or shark attacks. Far more people are killed and injured every week from these than an urban fox in London but do you hear for the mass culling of every shark, snake, lion, spider and so on?
It's not so much feeding fox that encourages them but the consumer greed of man. Fox have been around for centuries, red in the countryside, urban in towns but many urban fox you see isn't a pure urban but can be a hybrid of the two due to the ever decreasing green belt in our country. The urban fox hasn't become more daring, they've simply had to adjust. The numbers of fox was far lower in the nineteenth century and not through hunting. It's down to consumer greed of buiding large housing developments and then adding every fast food outlet imaginable in every high street, something the fox didn't have a century ago. Back then when numbers were lower, we didn't have massive landfill sites, food outlets on every street and overflowing bins of household waste. The food we throw away in this country is criminal and one daft council in Bristol even introduced brown bins for food scraps for local pigs and then wondered why they had rats and fox. Through man's greed in the past century we have destroyed much of the fox natural habitat, built food chains land sites and shops galore and then complain when an indiginous species adapts to it.
We also have a selfish mindset in this country. Parents are too damn idle to dispose of their nappies hygenically along with food waste and then complain there's a fox round their bin. How many of you in this country have seen soiled nappies and food waste overflowing from bins? as i know i have regually. When these people get their act together then maybe they could have a point.
We have become conditioned in this country to having no predators and we've become complacent where in other parts of the world it's man who has no choice but to live alongside the predator and take precautions. You'd never even think of leaving a soiled nappy on your street in an area of grizzly bear.
To dispel some myths, fox don't live or hunt in packs, very often they are solitary creatures or prefer to live as a family. Each family has an alpha dog and an alpha vixen who will in the main be mnogomous throughout their lives. The average lifespan of a fox is a mere two to four years although they can reach ages of fourteen in captivity. An alpha dog can only reproduce if of a certain weight and a vixen will only reproduce two, possibly three times within her lifespan. Those that are lucky enough to reach their lifespan without the danger of being shot, poisoned, hit by cars or caught on railway lines. Many people think they're seeing the same vixen with cubs every year when the facts are that the brief lifespan makes this difficult. Both alpha dog and alpha vixen are extremely territorial and will see off another fox from his family including his own cubs when they've reached an age of around nine months old. This is why there'snever large packs roaming as our media wish to portray.
Red and urban fox cache food as they're only able to eat a certain amount at a given time often returning in the night to the same source and in that part of London, fast food outlets would produce enough supply. Both fox diet is primarily earth worms and small rodents or stricken birds and if they can't get these in built up area's naturally they will go for the bins but a fox won't repeatedly go to a bin in a garden once he knows the bin's too secure for him to get into. The advice to anyone is to take the trouble to secure all waste in black sacks and secure before placing in a tight fitting wheelie bin. If people are too bone idle to do this then they will get a fox around their bin.
There's been much for the pro's and cons of feeding fox but given how territorial the fox is and how they only live in small family units, by feeding them, you'll never encourage the numbers as the short lifespan and the ousting of cubs at nine months means the family unit stays at around the same number each year. By feeding fox enough food to have a good meal with enough excess to cache for the night, you will be unlikely to have your bins raided nor any pets taken including fowl.
We have now got all manor of demented people going onto radio shows and one i heard today was that a woman was claiming a fox bit her cats head off. How ironic these tales of woe only come out after an event like this? The fox be red or urban is one species we have that is not programmed to fight and is not a match for any cat, dog or human. They may well stand their ground but have you ever tried actually grabbing hold of one? It'd be gone in a flash.
This attack in London is totally extraordinary of the fox species yet there seems to be reams of the uneduacated now likening this one unique fox to the many thousands who have lived in fear of man in this country for centuries.
Children and babies have been mauled and killed by pet dogs more in this country than you'll ever see of a fox yet we continue to keep them. There are many recorded events of babies being attacked in the home by cats yet we continue to keep them. Here we have a species that we have built homes and shops on their habitat and suddenly we're surprised when one acts out of character and we need to keep a sensible idea of rational here.
The most dangerous species on this planet is man and that's the reason i was alarmed at someone having open patio doors in the heart of London. Forget the fox, what about the thousands of menatlly ill, the violent and the paedophiles that our governments have released back onto our streets under the guise of care in the community?
Raven, i agree with you.
gmc, would you not imagine given the mass hysteria in our press over this attack that newspapers would be screaming should any fox have taken a baby and eaten it? There has never been the slightest inclination from fox to eat human meat or do you have a link to prove otherwise?
There have only ever been two other recorded attacks on humans and the word 'attack' being the vocabulary used by the press. Since this attack took place there has been much scrutiny given to the two prior attacks recorded and it's now been determined that those attacks were made after all by dogs, making this attack unique.
Let's put this unique attack into perspective for a moment rather than the bigoted claptrap i've seen over the past two days.
We were not alone in initially believing that this was a dog after speaking to many who know the fox well as they thought the same thing due to the rarity of fox attacks and pet dog attacks being common.
We have very few indiginous species here and never have to contend with mountain cats or grizzly in the states, spiders in Australia, snakes in India or shark attacks. Far more people are killed and injured every week from these than an urban fox in London but do you hear for the mass culling of every shark, snake, lion, spider and so on?
It's not so much feeding fox that encourages them but the consumer greed of man. Fox have been around for centuries, red in the countryside, urban in towns but many urban fox you see isn't a pure urban but can be a hybrid of the two due to the ever decreasing green belt in our country. The urban fox hasn't become more daring, they've simply had to adjust. The numbers of fox was far lower in the nineteenth century and not through hunting. It's down to consumer greed of buiding large housing developments and then adding every fast food outlet imaginable in every high street, something the fox didn't have a century ago. Back then when numbers were lower, we didn't have massive landfill sites, food outlets on every street and overflowing bins of household waste. The food we throw away in this country is criminal and one daft council in Bristol even introduced brown bins for food scraps for local pigs and then wondered why they had rats and fox. Through man's greed in the past century we have destroyed much of the fox natural habitat, built food chains land sites and shops galore and then complain when an indiginous species adapts to it.
We also have a selfish mindset in this country. Parents are too damn idle to dispose of their nappies hygenically along with food waste and then complain there's a fox round their bin. How many of you in this country have seen soiled nappies and food waste overflowing from bins? as i know i have regually. When these people get their act together then maybe they could have a point.
We have become conditioned in this country to having no predators and we've become complacent where in other parts of the world it's man who has no choice but to live alongside the predator and take precautions. You'd never even think of leaving a soiled nappy on your street in an area of grizzly bear.
To dispel some myths, fox don't live or hunt in packs, very often they are solitary creatures or prefer to live as a family. Each family has an alpha dog and an alpha vixen who will in the main be mnogomous throughout their lives. The average lifespan of a fox is a mere two to four years although they can reach ages of fourteen in captivity. An alpha dog can only reproduce if of a certain weight and a vixen will only reproduce two, possibly three times within her lifespan. Those that are lucky enough to reach their lifespan without the danger of being shot, poisoned, hit by cars or caught on railway lines. Many people think they're seeing the same vixen with cubs every year when the facts are that the brief lifespan makes this difficult. Both alpha dog and alpha vixen are extremely territorial and will see off another fox from his family including his own cubs when they've reached an age of around nine months old. This is why there'snever large packs roaming as our media wish to portray.
Red and urban fox cache food as they're only able to eat a certain amount at a given time often returning in the night to the same source and in that part of London, fast food outlets would produce enough supply. Both fox diet is primarily earth worms and small rodents or stricken birds and if they can't get these in built up area's naturally they will go for the bins but a fox won't repeatedly go to a bin in a garden once he knows the bin's too secure for him to get into. The advice to anyone is to take the trouble to secure all waste in black sacks and secure before placing in a tight fitting wheelie bin. If people are too bone idle to do this then they will get a fox around their bin.
There's been much for the pro's and cons of feeding fox but given how territorial the fox is and how they only live in small family units, by feeding them, you'll never encourage the numbers as the short lifespan and the ousting of cubs at nine months means the family unit stays at around the same number each year. By feeding fox enough food to have a good meal with enough excess to cache for the night, you will be unlikely to have your bins raided nor any pets taken including fowl.
We have now got all manor of demented people going onto radio shows and one i heard today was that a woman was claiming a fox bit her cats head off. How ironic these tales of woe only come out after an event like this? The fox be red or urban is one species we have that is not programmed to fight and is not a match for any cat, dog or human. They may well stand their ground but have you ever tried actually grabbing hold of one? It'd be gone in a flash.
This attack in London is totally extraordinary of the fox species yet there seems to be reams of the uneduacated now likening this one unique fox to the many thousands who have lived in fear of man in this country for centuries.
Children and babies have been mauled and killed by pet dogs more in this country than you'll ever see of a fox yet we continue to keep them. There are many recorded events of babies being attacked in the home by cats yet we continue to keep them. Here we have a species that we have built homes and shops on their habitat and suddenly we're surprised when one acts out of character and we need to keep a sensible idea of rational here.
The most dangerous species on this planet is man and that's the reason i was alarmed at someone having open patio doors in the heart of London. Forget the fox, what about the thousands of menatlly ill, the violent and the paedophiles that our governments have released back onto our streets under the guise of care in the community?
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
We live close to the countryside,
we see foxes all the time,but they
run and hide when any humans
come by them.
Dont cull them,there wild animals
its us who,s been incroching on their
natural habitat building houses all the
time.
I hope the babies make a full recovery
but lets not make a knee geark reaction
Dont Cull.:-1
we see foxes all the time,but they
run and hide when any humans
come by them.
Dont cull them,there wild animals
its us who,s been incroching on their
natural habitat building houses all the
time.
I hope the babies make a full recovery
but lets not make a knee geark reaction
Dont Cull.:-1
-
Peter Lake
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:02 pm
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
rissa;1314893 wrote: We live close to the countryside,
we see foxes all the time,but they
run and hide when any humans
come by them.
Dont cull them,there wild animals
its us who,s been incroching on their
natural habitat building houses all the
time.
I hope the babies make a full recovery
but lets not make a knee geark reaction
Dont Cull.:-1
That's a lovely post :-6 I agree as our thoughts are with the babies also.
we see foxes all the time,but they
run and hide when any humans
come by them.
Dont cull them,there wild animals
its us who,s been incroching on their
natural habitat building houses all the
time.
I hope the babies make a full recovery
but lets not make a knee geark reaction
Dont Cull.:-1
That's a lovely post :-6 I agree as our thoughts are with the babies also.
-
Peter Lake
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:02 pm
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
This link from today shows that the only other two recorded attacks by fox in this countries history did turn out to be a german shepherd dog and a cat not two dogs as i stated earlier. This backs up the attack in London being unique.
BBC News - How common are fox attacks on humans?
BBC News - How common are fox attacks on humans?
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
Very unique.
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
hoping to hear how the babies are doing.
Life is just to short for drama.
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
Me two hope they make
a full recovery.
a full recovery.
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Bill Sikes
- Posts: 5515
- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:21 am
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
rissa;1314908 wrote: Very unique.
Unfortunately not.
Fox attacks sleeping baby| News | This is London
Another one:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1440629 ... child.html
Unfortunately not.
Fox attacks sleeping baby| News | This is London
Another one:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1440629 ... child.html
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Peter Lake
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:02 pm
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
Bill Sikes;1314916 wrote: Unfortunately not.
Fox attacks sleeping baby| News | This is London
Another one:
Fox attacks sleeping child - Telegraph
And the exact reason these stories have only broken the surface after the attack in London?
Going by the stories i heard on radio today i was left in no doubt that more and more 'new' cases would suddenly appear in the press. Funny how nobody had any interest in them beforehand eh?
Fox attacks sleeping baby| News | This is London
Another one:
Fox attacks sleeping child - Telegraph
And the exact reason these stories have only broken the surface after the attack in London?
Going by the stories i heard on radio today i was left in no doubt that more and more 'new' cases would suddenly appear in the press. Funny how nobody had any interest in them beforehand eh?
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
Dont cull the foxes.
Please no.
Please no.
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
[QUOTE=Bill Sikes;1314916]Unfortunately not.
Fox attacks sleeping baby| News | This is London
/QUOTE]
poor tiny baby, covered in scares.
and that damn fox came back?:-5:-5
they are right, if it had of been a dog........
authorities should be out there trying to capture it.:rolleyes:
Fox attacks sleeping baby| News | This is London
/QUOTE]
poor tiny baby, covered in scares.
and that damn fox came back?:-5:-5
they are right, if it had of been a dog........
authorities should be out there trying to capture it.:rolleyes:
Life is just to short for drama.
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Peter Lake
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:02 pm
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
I forgot to mention from Bill's articles the woman who now claims fox have growled at her. Perhaps someone could explain to her that a fox is unable to growl. Similar to dogs, they can bark, yap and howl, they can even purr but they can't growl. If confronted or cornered they drop back on the hind legs and hiss. Having helped rescue injured fox, when a fox does hiss at you, then it's unmistakable. Growl? :yh_rotfl
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
Peter Lake;1314946 wrote: I forgot to mention from Bill's articles the woman who now claims fox have growled at her. Perhaps someone could explain to her that a fox is unable to growl. Similar to dogs, they can bark, yap and howl, they can even purr but they can't growl. If confronted or cornered they drop back on the hind legs and hiss. Having helped rescue injured fox, when a fox does hiss at you, then it's unmistakable. Growl? :yh_rotfl
Sure a fox can growl. That's how they show aggression. Here's a link to look at, as to the many sounds a fox actually does make:
red fox vocalizations
Sure a fox can growl. That's how they show aggression. Here's a link to look at, as to the many sounds a fox actually does make:
red fox vocalizations
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
posted by peter lake
gmc, would you not imagine given the mass hysteria in our press over this attack that newspapers would be screaming should any fox have taken a baby and eaten it? There has never been the slightest inclination from fox to eat human meat or do you have a link to prove otherwise?
For goodness sake will you use your common sense. It's irrelevant whether there have been incidents recently of a baby being attacked or not, it doesn't mean they would not eat human meat given half a chance. When bodies are found in the countryside what do you think is likely to have been gnawing on the corpse? It's noy just maggors and crows youy know.
I have a cute dog but given half a chance will rip the neighbours fluffy bunny to bits as well as any cat stupid enough to get near it and in the right circumstances it would scavenge on a human corpse as well. Mine might probably not attack a living human but on the other hand no one is surprised when a dog does does and I certainly wouldn't leave mine alone with a small child. A fox is an opportunistic predator and a wild animal to suggest it would make a decision not to eat meat just because it was human is ludicrous.
This is obviously a very rare occurrence but urban foxes have learned not to fear humans and do go in to houses on occasion. I've had a fox just walk past me on the pavement, no fear at all. There's probably plenty instances of pet rabbits and dogs being taken that just don't get reported - why would they? It happens all the time and it's not just chinese restaurants that end up with cat and dog on the menu.
I don't actually support the hunting lobby but that's because I think there is something wrong with people whose idea of fun is watching an animal being ripped to shreds or blasting birds out of the air with shotguns just for the fun of it and not because I think a fox is cute and fluffy and misunderstood.
gmc, would you not imagine given the mass hysteria in our press over this attack that newspapers would be screaming should any fox have taken a baby and eaten it? There has never been the slightest inclination from fox to eat human meat or do you have a link to prove otherwise?
For goodness sake will you use your common sense. It's irrelevant whether there have been incidents recently of a baby being attacked or not, it doesn't mean they would not eat human meat given half a chance. When bodies are found in the countryside what do you think is likely to have been gnawing on the corpse? It's noy just maggors and crows youy know.
I have a cute dog but given half a chance will rip the neighbours fluffy bunny to bits as well as any cat stupid enough to get near it and in the right circumstances it would scavenge on a human corpse as well. Mine might probably not attack a living human but on the other hand no one is surprised when a dog does does and I certainly wouldn't leave mine alone with a small child. A fox is an opportunistic predator and a wild animal to suggest it would make a decision not to eat meat just because it was human is ludicrous.
This is obviously a very rare occurrence but urban foxes have learned not to fear humans and do go in to houses on occasion. I've had a fox just walk past me on the pavement, no fear at all. There's probably plenty instances of pet rabbits and dogs being taken that just don't get reported - why would they? It happens all the time and it's not just chinese restaurants that end up with cat and dog on the menu.
I don't actually support the hunting lobby but that's because I think there is something wrong with people whose idea of fun is watching an animal being ripped to shreds or blasting birds out of the air with shotguns just for the fun of it and not because I think a fox is cute and fluffy and misunderstood.
-
Bill Sikes
- Posts: 5515
- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:21 am
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
Peter Lake;1314927 wrote: And the exact reason these stories have only broken the surface after the attack in London?
Going by the stories i heard on radio today i was left in no doubt that more and more 'new' cases would suddenly appear in the press. Funny how nobody had any interest in them beforehand eh?
Don't be so silly. You were saying that there had been no fox attacks before. These ones were reported years ago, they are not "new". There quite clearly have been attacks before; possibly more than the ones that have been reported.
Going by the stories i heard on radio today i was left in no doubt that more and more 'new' cases would suddenly appear in the press. Funny how nobody had any interest in them beforehand eh?
Don't be so silly. You were saying that there had been no fox attacks before. These ones were reported years ago, they are not "new". There quite clearly have been attacks before; possibly more than the ones that have been reported.
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Bill Sikes
- Posts: 5515
- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:21 am
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
rissa;1314944 wrote: Dont cull the foxes.
There's a good case for controlling urban foxes. Why not? They're only animals like rats, pigeons etc. which are also controlled.
There's a good case for controlling urban foxes. Why not? They're only animals like rats, pigeons etc. which are also controlled.
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Bill Sikes
- Posts: 5515
- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:21 am
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
Peter Lake;1314892 wrote: Fox have been around for centuries, red in the countryside, urban in towns but many urban fox you see isn't a pure urban but can be a hybrid of the two
Are you seriously suggesting that the "urban fox" is a different animal to the ones found in the countryside?
Are you seriously suggesting that the "urban fox" is a different animal to the ones found in the countryside?
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jefflightfoot
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:35 am
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
Advice on keeping urban foxes away - what you can do and what you mustn't do!
timeandleisure.co.uk/local-news/57-wandsworth/235-advice-on-urban-foxes.html
timeandleisure.co.uk/local-news/57-wandsworth/235-advice-on-urban-foxes.html
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Peter Lake
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:02 pm
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
Mustang;1314950 wrote: Sure a fox can growl. That's how they show aggression. Here's a link to look at, as to the many sounds a fox actually does make:
red fox vocalizations
There's a wealth of sites on the net, some saying fox can't growl, some saying they can. Your site is for the red and urban fox has many traits that the red does nor doesn't have. I could post links that state the fox can't growl but we'd waste our time just searching and posting conflicting sites.
I have spoken to the rspca today and the org they pass fox onto. Both tell me that never in their experience have they had a fox growl but i'm waiting for a return phone call as they're getting an authority from their hq to state once and for all if this is the case or not the case for a public post. If i'm wrong, i'll not hesitate to admit i've been wrong.
My wife became involved with the anti hunt in her late teens and has dealt with fox red and urban most of her life including tending to them in the road from road accidents. We've also been called out to fox from suspected poisoning and all manner of problems and she's been hissed at many times and even bitten while attending them if they were injured but never growled at. All i can do is wait for the authority on the subject to call me back.
red fox vocalizations
There's a wealth of sites on the net, some saying fox can't growl, some saying they can. Your site is for the red and urban fox has many traits that the red does nor doesn't have. I could post links that state the fox can't growl but we'd waste our time just searching and posting conflicting sites.
I have spoken to the rspca today and the org they pass fox onto. Both tell me that never in their experience have they had a fox growl but i'm waiting for a return phone call as they're getting an authority from their hq to state once and for all if this is the case or not the case for a public post. If i'm wrong, i'll not hesitate to admit i've been wrong.
My wife became involved with the anti hunt in her late teens and has dealt with fox red and urban most of her life including tending to them in the road from road accidents. We've also been called out to fox from suspected poisoning and all manner of problems and she's been hissed at many times and even bitten while attending them if they were injured but never growled at. All i can do is wait for the authority on the subject to call me back.
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Peter Lake
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:02 pm
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
gmc;1314997 wrote: posted by peter lake
For goodness sake will you use your common sense. It's irrelevant whether there have been incidents recently of a baby being attacked or not, it doesn't mean they would not eat human meat given half a chance. When bodies are found in the countryside what do you think is likely to have been gnawing on the corpse? It's noy just maggors and crows youy know.
I have a cute dog but given half a chance will rip the neighbours fluffy bunny to bits as well as any cat stupid enough to get near it and in the right circumstances it would scavenge on a human corpse as well. Mine might probably not attack a living human but on the other hand no one is surprised when a dog does does and I certainly wouldn't leave mine alone with a small child. A fox is an opportunistic predator and a wild animal to suggest it would make a decision not to eat meat just because it was human is ludicrous.
This is obviously a very rare occurrence but urban foxes have learned not to fear humans and do go in to houses on occasion. I've had a fox just walk past me on the pavement, no fear at all. There's probably plenty instances of pet rabbits and dogs being taken that just don't get reported - why would they? It happens all the time and it's not just chinese restaurants that end up with cat and dog on the menu.
I don't actually support the hunting lobby but that's because I think there is something wrong with people whose idea of fun is watching an animal being ripped to shreds or blasting birds out of the air with shotguns just for the fun of it and not because I think a fox is cute and fluffy and misunderstood. A fox, badger or any wild animal will eat dead meat including the rotting remains of a corpse but in most cases you'll find a corpse nibbled at and not eaten in full. The nibbling is a form of curiosity into what may be a meal and you'll find most dead bodies found in countryside have the ears and digits nibbled not the animal eating huge chunks of flesh as a mountain lion would. A fox wouldn't attack a living human for food, that's never been known.
I go back to what i said in my earlier post, given the fast food outlets on every corner and over flowing bins the fox has become spoilt for choice. If urban are to be controlled, maybe we should look at tougher measures for the food chains who throw out food without securing it and those who do toss soiled nappies alongside a full bin out of idleness. When we've cured man's complacency then we may get somewhere.
I'll give you an example which i found myself with no choice but to complain. My neighbour as a result of a car crash is paralysed from the waist down and most of the day has carers come to his home. As the lane we live in is private our bin men don't come down here for collection and we have to take our bins up the lane into the close for collection and the pick up point happens to be right outside a primary school and nursery. Every monday morning all the children arriving at the school have no choice but to walk past the long line of bins into the gates. Our neighbours carers were tossing man sized nappies directly into his bin without placing them in carrier bags or anything. His bins are always over flowing and one summer these nappies were in full view of the children complete with copious amounts of poo overhanging from his bin. I can't even describe the smell that summer. The poor man no doubt had no idea his carers were so lax and i did try talking to them. When man takes responsibility for their own waste then we may have a point with the fox.
For goodness sake will you use your common sense. It's irrelevant whether there have been incidents recently of a baby being attacked or not, it doesn't mean they would not eat human meat given half a chance. When bodies are found in the countryside what do you think is likely to have been gnawing on the corpse? It's noy just maggors and crows youy know.
I have a cute dog but given half a chance will rip the neighbours fluffy bunny to bits as well as any cat stupid enough to get near it and in the right circumstances it would scavenge on a human corpse as well. Mine might probably not attack a living human but on the other hand no one is surprised when a dog does does and I certainly wouldn't leave mine alone with a small child. A fox is an opportunistic predator and a wild animal to suggest it would make a decision not to eat meat just because it was human is ludicrous.
This is obviously a very rare occurrence but urban foxes have learned not to fear humans and do go in to houses on occasion. I've had a fox just walk past me on the pavement, no fear at all. There's probably plenty instances of pet rabbits and dogs being taken that just don't get reported - why would they? It happens all the time and it's not just chinese restaurants that end up with cat and dog on the menu.
I don't actually support the hunting lobby but that's because I think there is something wrong with people whose idea of fun is watching an animal being ripped to shreds or blasting birds out of the air with shotguns just for the fun of it and not because I think a fox is cute and fluffy and misunderstood. A fox, badger or any wild animal will eat dead meat including the rotting remains of a corpse but in most cases you'll find a corpse nibbled at and not eaten in full. The nibbling is a form of curiosity into what may be a meal and you'll find most dead bodies found in countryside have the ears and digits nibbled not the animal eating huge chunks of flesh as a mountain lion would. A fox wouldn't attack a living human for food, that's never been known.
I go back to what i said in my earlier post, given the fast food outlets on every corner and over flowing bins the fox has become spoilt for choice. If urban are to be controlled, maybe we should look at tougher measures for the food chains who throw out food without securing it and those who do toss soiled nappies alongside a full bin out of idleness. When we've cured man's complacency then we may get somewhere.
I'll give you an example which i found myself with no choice but to complain. My neighbour as a result of a car crash is paralysed from the waist down and most of the day has carers come to his home. As the lane we live in is private our bin men don't come down here for collection and we have to take our bins up the lane into the close for collection and the pick up point happens to be right outside a primary school and nursery. Every monday morning all the children arriving at the school have no choice but to walk past the long line of bins into the gates. Our neighbours carers were tossing man sized nappies directly into his bin without placing them in carrier bags or anything. His bins are always over flowing and one summer these nappies were in full view of the children complete with copious amounts of poo overhanging from his bin. I can't even describe the smell that summer. The poor man no doubt had no idea his carers were so lax and i did try talking to them. When man takes responsibility for their own waste then we may have a point with the fox.
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Bill Sikes
- Posts: 5515
- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:21 am
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
Peter Lake;1315074 wrote: A fox ... will eat dead meat including the rotting remains of a corpse but in most cases you'll find a corpse nibbled at and not eaten in full.
I'm not sure where you get this tripe. Foxes certainly do eat carrion. To claim they don't is ridiculous.
I'm not sure where you get this tripe. Foxes certainly do eat carrion. To claim they don't is ridiculous.
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Peter Lake
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:02 pm
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
Bill Sikes;1315084 wrote: I'm not sure where you get this tripe. Foxes certainly do eat carrion. To claim they don't is ridiculous. From everything i've read on this forum in the past two years, you've been obnoxious to anyone who doesn't agree with you without ever offering decent debate and prefering to use one lined sarcasm. Possibly another reason why new members are not champing at the bit to join. If you can't debate a subject such as other posts on this thread then why bother at all?
I have taken a great deal of time over the past two days to phone the authorities and speak to people who are experts in this field along with a great deal of research on the net dispite my being involved with fox for many years. I suspect that you haven't prefering to flex your muscles, puff up your chest full of self importance when i've seen no evidence in my two years here to give you such importance. You're not an expert on this subject any more than i am or pretend to be yet when i've spoken first hand to the rspca and other authorities, i know who's opinion i'd heed and who's i wouldn't.
I have taken a great deal of time over the past two days to phone the authorities and speak to people who are experts in this field along with a great deal of research on the net dispite my being involved with fox for many years. I suspect that you haven't prefering to flex your muscles, puff up your chest full of self importance when i've seen no evidence in my two years here to give you such importance. You're not an expert on this subject any more than i am or pretend to be yet when i've spoken first hand to the rspca and other authorities, i know who's opinion i'd heed and who's i wouldn't.
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Bill Sikes
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Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
Peter Lake;1315097 wrote: From everything i've read on this forum in the past two years, you've been obnoxious to anyone who doesn't agree with you
So are Red Foxes the same species as "Urban" ones, or not? Are you going to answer?
I can't debate a wrong fact, I can only put forward the correct one.
Peter Lake;1315097 wrote: prefering to use one lined sarcasm. Possibly another reason why new members are not champing at the bit to join.
Are you going to threaten to "get me banned", again, then? Unpleasant behaviour, that, isn't it.
So are Red Foxes the same species as "Urban" ones, or not? Are you going to answer?
I can't debate a wrong fact, I can only put forward the correct one.
Peter Lake;1315097 wrote: prefering to use one lined sarcasm. Possibly another reason why new members are not champing at the bit to join.
Are you going to threaten to "get me banned", again, then? Unpleasant behaviour, that, isn't it.
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Peter Lake
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Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
gmc;1314997 wrote: posted by peter lake
For goodness sake will you use your common sense. It's irrelevant whether there have been incidents recently of a baby being attacked or not, it doesn't mean they would not eat human meat given half a chance. When bodies are found in the countryside what do you think is likely to have been gnawing on the corpse? It's noy just maggors and crows youy know.
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Death to Dust: What Happens to Dead Bodies? - book reviews | Whole Earth Review | Find Articles at BNET
It seems my former post of fox going for ears and digits was correct although i stand corrected that they will go for other soft tissue such as the face. It does seem by this article that i was correct that the main flesh wouldn't be touched.
For goodness sake will you use your common sense. It's irrelevant whether there have been incidents recently of a baby being attacked or not, it doesn't mean they would not eat human meat given half a chance. When bodies are found in the countryside what do you think is likely to have been gnawing on the corpse? It's noy just maggors and crows youy know.
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Death to Dust: What Happens to Dead Bodies? - book reviews | Whole Earth Review | Find Articles at BNET
It seems my former post of fox going for ears and digits was correct although i stand corrected that they will go for other soft tissue such as the face. It does seem by this article that i was correct that the main flesh wouldn't be touched.
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
Peter Lake;1315072 wrote: There's a wealth of sites on the net, some saying fox can't growl, some saying they can. Your site is for the red and urban fox has many traits that the red does nor doesn't have. I could post links that state the fox can't growl but we'd waste our time just searching and posting conflicting sites.
I have spoken to the rspca today and the org they pass fox onto. Both tell me that never in their experience have they had a fox growl but i'm waiting for a return phone call as they're getting an authority from their hq to state once and for all if this is the case or not the case for a public post. If i'm wrong, i'll not hesitate to admit i've been wrong.
My wife became involved with the anti hunt in her late teens and has dealt with fox red and urban most of her life including tending to them in the road from road accidents. We've also been called out to fox from suspected poisoning and all manner of problems and she's been hissed at many times and even bitten while attending them if they were injured but never growled at. All i can do is wait for the authority on the subject to call me back.
From personal experience, I can tell you a fox does growl. I had to extract one from a crawl space underneath a woman's home. To say the least, the fox wasn't happy being snared, but at least it beat the alternative.
I have spoken to the rspca today and the org they pass fox onto. Both tell me that never in their experience have they had a fox growl but i'm waiting for a return phone call as they're getting an authority from their hq to state once and for all if this is the case or not the case for a public post. If i'm wrong, i'll not hesitate to admit i've been wrong.
My wife became involved with the anti hunt in her late teens and has dealt with fox red and urban most of her life including tending to them in the road from road accidents. We've also been called out to fox from suspected poisoning and all manner of problems and she's been hissed at many times and even bitten while attending them if they were injured but never growled at. All i can do is wait for the authority on the subject to call me back.
From personal experience, I can tell you a fox does growl. I had to extract one from a crawl space underneath a woman's home. To say the least, the fox wasn't happy being snared, but at least it beat the alternative.
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
Mustang;1315135 wrote: From personal experience, I can tell you a fox does growl. I had to extract one from a crawl space underneath a woman's home. To say the least, the fox wasn't happy being snared, but at least it beat the alternative.
Of course they growl, bet you were not happy that day either.
They have fox's filmed growling on youtube for anyone to see.
Of course they growl, bet you were not happy that day either.
They have fox's filmed growling on youtube for anyone to see.
Life is just to short for drama.
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
Odie;1315145 wrote: Of course they growl, bet you were not happy that day either.
They have fox's filmed growling on youtube for anyone to see.
It was an adrenalin rush, that's for sure. :wah: It made the old lady happy to have the fox removed and the fox was happy after it was released safely into the woods.
They have fox's filmed growling on youtube for anyone to see.
It was an adrenalin rush, that's for sure. :wah: It made the old lady happy to have the fox removed and the fox was happy after it was released safely into the woods.
Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
Mustang;1315153 wrote: It was an adrenalin rush, that's for sure. :wah: It made the old lady happy to have the fox removed and the fox was happy after it was released safely into the woods.
One can only imagine the adrenaline rush!:yh_rotfl
I should call you Billy the Exterminator!:guitarist
what were you thinking?:rolleyes::-5:yh_rotfl
One can only imagine the adrenaline rush!:yh_rotfl
I should call you Billy the Exterminator!:guitarist
what were you thinking?:rolleyes::-5:yh_rotfl
Life is just to short for drama.
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Peter Lake
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Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
Mustang;1315153 wrote: It was an adrenalin rush, that's for sure. :wah: It made the old lady happy to have the fox removed and the fox was happy after it was released safely into the woods.
I wa delighted that this afternoon one of the heads of the British rspca took the time and trouble to phone me back and we chatted for some time over many aspects of the fox. I told her of your experience and she was in no doubt that you'd had a fox growl in north America due to sub species yet this is what she told me. The British red and urban do emit a low bearing growl between each other that is very low frequency and bearly audible to humans. The only time this growl is used is between fox and she has not heard of fox growling at humans in the street here. The growling is a dialogue between fox and used for example when a alpha dog or alpha vixen is warning another away from the territory. In all the many thousands of rescue's that they undertake, no staff have ever reported being growled at, just hissing.
Your rescue was a noble act but we don't have rabies here so the wife is quite at home with dragging one out by the scruff although she's been bitten at times from the ungrateful. I stand corrected that our red and urban do emit this low frequency growl between each other but stand by my claim that for a fox to growl at a human in the street is unheard of.
I wa delighted that this afternoon one of the heads of the British rspca took the time and trouble to phone me back and we chatted for some time over many aspects of the fox. I told her of your experience and she was in no doubt that you'd had a fox growl in north America due to sub species yet this is what she told me. The British red and urban do emit a low bearing growl between each other that is very low frequency and bearly audible to humans. The only time this growl is used is between fox and she has not heard of fox growling at humans in the street here. The growling is a dialogue between fox and used for example when a alpha dog or alpha vixen is warning another away from the territory. In all the many thousands of rescue's that they undertake, no staff have ever reported being growled at, just hissing.
Your rescue was a noble act but we don't have rabies here so the wife is quite at home with dragging one out by the scruff although she's been bitten at times from the ungrateful. I stand corrected that our red and urban do emit this low frequency growl between each other but stand by my claim that for a fox to growl at a human in the street is unheard of.
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Peter Lake
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Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
Odie;1315145 wrote: Of course they growl, bet you were not happy that day either.
They have fox's filmed growling on youtube for anyone to see.
You say a fox has been filmed growling on you tube. Is this the you tube film you are refering to?
YouTube - a fox growling
Either my eyesight is failing or i fail to see any actual film only sound. You'll also notice that the voices are American and if it's a fox it's likely to be a sub species of the British fox and that of which we're disputing. There is almost nil film evidence of what the fox is growling at, if it's a fox. If it is a fox it's most likely growling at another but here we're talking about fox growling at humans not each other.
The only other you tube evidence of a fox growling is within a fox fur farm which is an entirely different enviroment with fox caged in close proximity to each other in alien surroundings to their usual habitat. Any growling would be between each other and the dispute is over British urban fox growling in the street at humans not each other.
They have fox's filmed growling on youtube for anyone to see.
You say a fox has been filmed growling on you tube. Is this the you tube film you are refering to?
YouTube - a fox growling
Either my eyesight is failing or i fail to see any actual film only sound. You'll also notice that the voices are American and if it's a fox it's likely to be a sub species of the British fox and that of which we're disputing. There is almost nil film evidence of what the fox is growling at, if it's a fox. If it is a fox it's most likely growling at another but here we're talking about fox growling at humans not each other.
The only other you tube evidence of a fox growling is within a fox fur farm which is an entirely different enviroment with fox caged in close proximity to each other in alien surroundings to their usual habitat. Any growling would be between each other and the dispute is over British urban fox growling in the street at humans not each other.
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Peter Lake
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Fox attack left babies covered in blood, says mother
Bill Sikes;1315098 wrote: So are Red Foxes the same species as "Urban" ones, or not? Are you going to answer?
I can't debate a wrong fact, I can only put forward the correct one.
Are you going to threaten to "get me banned", again, then? Unpleasant behaviour, that, isn't it.
Get you banned? Really Bill, not only do i sense a tad of narcissism but also a touch of paranoia complex.
You don't debate at all so when you claim that you can only put the corect one forward, you rarely post links or imformation that backs up any of your claims leading the reader no option but to assume you're merely stating opinion. That opinion is no different to any opinion given on a forum yet your obnoxious in the extreme to anyone who doesn't share your opinion. That i believe isn't what a forum is for. Not everyone has the hours in the day to research before posting and writes their opinion but i've seen many a members opinion trampled on here and then we wonder why the posts are far and few between. If you think i'm stating something that's incorrect then the appropriate behaviour would be to show me a link to prove otherwise instead of the bile of which you emit. Given that only days ago you stated my wife often posted that she was closing her account and that i usually wrote in upper case, both incorrect and of which you've shown no evidence of, then it's not surprising that i pay little attention to your opinions. When you make such ridiculous unfounded claims, it's no wonder you have little interaction with others on this forum.
I can't debate a wrong fact, I can only put forward the correct one.
Are you going to threaten to "get me banned", again, then? Unpleasant behaviour, that, isn't it.
Get you banned? Really Bill, not only do i sense a tad of narcissism but also a touch of paranoia complex.
You don't debate at all so when you claim that you can only put the corect one forward, you rarely post links or imformation that backs up any of your claims leading the reader no option but to assume you're merely stating opinion. That opinion is no different to any opinion given on a forum yet your obnoxious in the extreme to anyone who doesn't share your opinion. That i believe isn't what a forum is for. Not everyone has the hours in the day to research before posting and writes their opinion but i've seen many a members opinion trampled on here and then we wonder why the posts are far and few between. If you think i'm stating something that's incorrect then the appropriate behaviour would be to show me a link to prove otherwise instead of the bile of which you emit. Given that only days ago you stated my wife often posted that she was closing her account and that i usually wrote in upper case, both incorrect and of which you've shown no evidence of, then it's not surprising that i pay little attention to your opinions. When you make such ridiculous unfounded claims, it's no wonder you have little interaction with others on this forum.