Seems like every day now, youngsters are murdered by knifing by gangs of young thugs!
Gang in school uniform stabbed boy - Yahoo! News UK
There is no adequate deterrent! We should be telling Europe to 'stuff it' with their stupid dangerous laws that protect the guilty! We must re-introduce corporal punishment, the do-gooders methods have failed! These cowardly young scum only understand one law - pain! If you do violent wrong, then you will get hurt physically, and it will hurt !
Enough!!!! These terrible crimes are only on the increase because there is no deterrent, there is nothing to make them stop to think of what they are planning to do and what would happen to them when they are caught! THEY ARE LAUGHING AT OUR PATHETIC LAWS. Time to do something about it! What do you think?
G#Gill;1299666 wrote: Seems like every day now, youngsters are murdered by knifing by gangs of young thugs!
Gang in school uniform stabbed boy - Yahoo! News UK
There is no adequate deterrent! We should be telling Europe to 'stuff it' with their stupid dangerous laws that protect the guilty! We must re-introduce corporal punishment, the do-gooders methods have failed! These cowardly young scum only understand one law - pain! If you do violent wrong, then you will get hurt physically, and it will hurt !
Enough!!!! These terrible crimes are only on the increase because there is no deterrent, there is nothing to make them stop to think of what they are planning to do and what would happen to them when they are caught! THEY ARE LAUGHING AT OUR PATHETIC LAWS. Time to do something about it! What do you think?
You are talking a load of rubbish. You do not seem to be aware that corporal punishment was ended in the UK in 1948 long - before we joined the eec because people realised it wasn't actually much of a deterrent. If you are going to go in for ranting you could at least make the effort to get your facts right.
gmc;1299668 wrote: You are talking a load of rubbish. You do not seem to be aware that corporal punishment was ended in the UK in 1948 long - before we joined the eec because people realised it wasn't actually much of a deterrent. If you are going to go in for ranting you could at least make the effort to get your facts right.
In the winter the cast iron stove in dad's workshop would sometimes get near red-hot. Once we kids touched it, we made sure we didn't do it again. So, that wouldn't work in the UK? Kids there would keep on touching a hot stove?
hoppy;1299675 wrote: In the winter the cast iron stove in dad's workshop would sometimes get near red-hot. Once we kids touched it, we made sure we didn't do it again. So, that wouldn't work in the UK? Kids there would keep on touching a hot stove?
UK kids are bright enough to know not to touch hot things in the first place:yh_rotfl.
Most civilised countries stopped beating children decades ago for the simple reason that it wasn't actually much of a deterrent in the first place and a general acceptance that there is something not quite right about people who want to beat children. Nowadays most people also think it's wrong for a husband to beat his wife.
The US has some of the most draconian punishments in the world and refused to sign up to the International Convention on the Rights of the Child because some of the states still wanted the right to execute children. You also have the highest crime rates so really lecturing other about crime and punishment is not something you should do and expect to be taken seriously.
gmc;1299668 wrote: You are talking a load of rubbish. You do not seem to be aware that corporal punishment was ended in the UK in 1948 long - before we joined the eec because people realised it wasn't actually much of a deterrent. If you are going to go in for ranting you could at least make the effort to get your facts right.
Thank you for putting me right gmc. But it would have been more acceptable if you hadn't been so damn rude. Rule one might help you!
gmc;1299681 wrote: UK kids are bright enough to know not to touch hot things in the first place:yh_rotfl.
Most civilised countries stopped beating children decades ago for the simple reason that it wasn't actually much of a deterrent in the first place and a general acceptance that there is something not quite right about people who want to beat children. Nowadays most people also think it's wrong for a husband to beat his wife.
The US has some of the most draconian punishments in the world and refused to sign up to the International Convention on the Rights of the Child because some of the states still wanted the right to execute children. You also have the highest crime rates so really lecturing other about crime and punishment is not something you should do and expect to be taken seriously.
The USA also has probably the most diverse population of any country and unlike european countries, we only been a USA a short while. In other words, England had much longer to get things right, but look at yourselves.:yh_rotfl
G#Gill;1299683 wrote: Thank you for putting me right gmc. But it would have been more acceptable if you hadn't been so damn rude. Rule one might help you!
I didn't mean to offend but you were talking a load of rubbish, nonsense tosh pick whatever word you prefer. If you take umbrage every time someone disagrees with you there is not much I can do about it.
posted by hoppy
The USA also has probably the most diverse population of any country and unlike european countries, we only been a USA a short while. In other words, England had much longer to get things right, but look at yourselves.
That would be difficult since I am not actually living in england. In fact we have a different legal system, education system, religion and generally are much more sophisticated and intelligent than our southern neighbours. Of course some might suggest we are also delusional but who cares what foreigners think.
My mother always told us 'cause and effect' - in other words, if we did something wrong we would be punished. We were very rarely physically punished, I have to say, because usually a raised voice was sufficient to draw a 'sorry' from the miscreant, and an improvement of behaviour. However, on the rare occasions that one of us children did something really bad, we would benefit from a slipper on the bottom, and it happened immediately. This guaranteed that the offence was not repeated, because the slipper hurt us, and we would remember that hurt, although the actual stinging didn't last very long it was sufficient to make us think.
Look at lionesses with her cubs, she cuffs naughty behaviour and that is the way the cubs learn. This happens in most animal groups. The punishment is instantaneous so the cub/pup etc knows exactly where they went wrong, they associated the sharp pain with what they had just done so over time they learnt not to do that particular thing again.
We are not barbaric if we wish to chastise our offspring - it is the quickest way of instilling good behaviour in our young. Obviously there has to be common sense in administering physical punishment, and it should be a rare occurence on only very serious offences.
When we were children, my mother had a 'black mark book'. There were three of us, and she thought that a little competetiveness would be a healthy thing.
If one of us misbehaved, that child would receive a 'black mark' in their column of the book. If one of us did something which merited praise, then that child would gain a 'red mark' (e.g. if we did a job that was unasked for and was a pleasant surprise). At the end of each week, each child's column was added up and they would receive pennies for the number of red marks that had not been cancelled out by the black ones! We were a fairly poor family so it was difficult for my parents to give their 3 children set pocket money (allowance) each week, like other families did. The 'Black mark book' system worked very well and was kept going for several years! My older brother was always 'hard up' because he was the naughtiest, I was next, but usually managed to achieve the 1s 3d that was my basic weekly amount. My other brother (second born child) was a 'goody two shoes' and whereas his standard weekly pocket money was 1s and 9d, he usually managed to get 2s. and 3d or thereabouts - flamin creep !
So you see, physical punishment in our house was indeed a rarity, and this is as it should be, otherwise it would become meaningless to a child.
Physical punishment administered to youths (and girls) who were anti-social, or damaged peoples' property, I believe, would stop later evil from developing.
gmc;1299687 wrote: I didn't mean to offend but you were talking a load of rubbish, nonsense tosh pick whatever word you prefer. If you take umbrage every time someone disagrees with you there is not much I can do about it.
posted by hoppy
That would be difficult since I am not actually living in england. In fact we have a different legal system, education system, religion and generally are much more sophisticated and intelligent than our southern neighbours. Of course some might suggest we are also delusional but who cares what foreigners think.
England/United kingdom are not one and the same.
I haven't 'taken umbrage', it's just that I thought it was unnecessary for you to be so rude about correcting me. Are you always like that? I accepted your correction. The trouble is, gmc, you have just repeated the rudeness! Must be the air up there! :rolleyes:
Bill Sikes;1299692 wrote: Good idea, as long as the thrashings are done in public, and are severe enough.
I would agree with this, but unfortunately with the way the young thugs think these days, they would assume the mantle of martyrdom and it could become something of an envied achievement with bragging rights. Administered out of the public eye, but with sufficient overseeing by senior officers and a doctor always present, also independent witnesses. Cane for up to 15 years old, birch for 16 plus. Number of strokes dependent on crime committed.
gmc;1299687 wrote: I didn't mean to offend but you were talking a load of rubbish, nonsense tosh pick whatever word you prefer. If you take umbrage every time someone disagrees with you there is not much I can do about it.
posted by hoppy
That would be difficult since I am not actually living in england. In fact we have a different legal system, education system, religion and generally are much more sophisticated and intelligent than our southern neighbours. Of course some might suggest we are also delusional but who cares what foreigners think.
The return of child beating....and in public. No thanks.
LarsMac is correct. We ourselves have the responsibility to teach our children respect and that isnt done with a beating, which is essentially what corporal punishment is.
Yes I was smacked as a child and yes I occasionally smacked my kids, much to my regret. I found that smacking was just a consequence of my anger. Its clearly wrong to react so strongly to your children as a result of not being able to control your anger. It teaches nothing. Why would we wish to inflict pain on our children, or indeed allow a third party to do it for us.
There are far better ways.
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
G#Gill;1299683 wrote: Thank you for putting me right gmc. But it would have been more acceptable if you hadn't been so damn rude. Rule one might help you!
Yes He Is damn Rude Gill but he Supports a Independent Scotland and loves Alex Salmond so we must make allowences. :sneaky: Unfortunately, he Is correct on the date Corporal Punishment ended.
I have posted this before so apologies but you may have missed It as It was some time ago.
I was at a Police/Residents meeting locally. A prolific offender of Anti-Social behaviour and criminal damage to folks properties have finally been caught. He was arrested and at the Nick he confessed to 30 other crimes. So that was 31 victems of criminal damage he had racked up In a few months. Did he appear before the courts and the residents get some compensation for their damage to their properties?... No... His punishment was a days painting at the school. But this Is the best bit... He had to have a health and safety Officer Inspect what he was painting to make sure the little Darling did not fall over or get electrocuted.
There was a fair amount of uproar at this and the Police Officer explaining this course of Restoritive Justice was getting a fair bit of stick. When It was my turn to speak, I said.. 'So let's get this right..... I get burgled by some scroat and Instead of him going to court, he has to come to my home under the Restoritive Justice scheme and do work on my house..... AND, God forbid, It's raining and the Little Darling slips on my path and hurts himself, he can sue me???' Ummmmmmm Yes :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
Pathetic eh???????
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The irony is it's the hippie parents of oscar's generation that are to blame for all of this. If they hadn't been so high on drugs and free love they might have been at home disciplining their kids who wouldn't now be producing all these semi literate scroats who have no sense of community.
gmc;1299740 wrote: The irony is it's the hippie parents of oscar's generation that are to blame for all of this. If they hadn't been so high on drugs and free love they might have been at home disciplining their kids who wouldn't now be producing all these semi literate scroats who have no sense of community.
I blame the grandparents:mad:
Excuse me !!!
My Father refered to Hippies as 'The Un-washed. I believe you were a Hippie?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
gmc;1299767 wrote: Not old enough, besides hippies were mainly middle class rich kids.
Not In my house or my family my little Jockstrap. My Parents were Conservatives :p
Truth be known, I think my father was some-what relieved that I became a Punk.... at least we wahed and spent a vast amount of time on our hair.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Let the previous generations get off SCOTT FREE for what they allow the gov and corps expose our kids to. ( yea I believe a community raises a child) The lack of nurturing for babies ( Mom and Dad are at work so is that baby getting the proper nurturing and care from a care giver or a crowded nursery?) A child's development is crucial during the first 3 yrs of their lives.
As Lars Marc said. What kind of parents do these kids have? What are those babies, toddlers, preschoolers, elementary kids being exposed to? Beatings? sexual abuse? Dysfunction and constant arguing in the home? What about neglect? denying an infant the emotional building blocks they need to be balanced, compassionate, yet assertive adults? How much of that is exposed and dealt with?
We're all told. Oh It's all good! It's progress! Yea. For the wealthy. meanwhile the working class are poisoned physically and mentally. WE eat it up and our kids are a product of a world WE accepted and created.
People seem to care more about things than each other. What some corrupt authority tells them to do ( Government, religion, corps) rather than CLAIMING their lives and time as their own and making sure LOVE and attention are what moulds their families. No Most people are running off, distracted by the latest thing. Our kids are targeted and Marketed by Corps and WE allow it. Entertainment has become so sophisticated that a video game is almost like Real hand to hand, weapon to weapon combat. Totally unlike PacMan.
Kids used to play with sticks, MUD, and with each other ( making a tent out of bedsheets or Boy Scouts and Brownies) in a 3 dimensional sense. Eye to eye. They LEARN by experiencing with all senses, that what they do hurts, hinders, or supports and nurtures.
WE Eat CRAP. Food filled with additives, GMO, chemicals and preservatives. We eat up pharmaceuticals like candy and if our kid is hyper give him Ritalin!?? This all effects a person body chemistry and creates brain and body disorders.
So, some are like animals, but they were built and conditioned to be that way.
Kids get through all this to the teen yrs and they realize also. WHERE IS MY FUTURE? They're pissed off! They aren't stupid.
We sit on our butts, do nothing and leave them a big mess?!
A persons mind isn't fully developed until about 18. That's when you KNOW if a person is truly a sociopath.
Pre teens deserve THERAPY and rehabilitation if they commit crimes. They deserve and we OWE them a chance after all we've done and FAILED to do.
If a child comes from an abusive home throw the parents in jail. Since when does parenting come without solid expectations? Oh yea. It's so much EASIER to throw it on the backs of the vulnerable.
That seems to happen on a large scale worldwide when it comes to Govs, and Corps exerting their will upon us all. Are THEY PAYING? No. WE are! WE are THEIR children! :yh_rotfl
I say we put them in a ring to square up with some sort of beast!
The smaller crimes would see offenders pitted against things like an Ostrich to a horse to something a bit more deserving of having to face a Kangaroo or further a Chimpanzee.
Then for the more serious crimes I've always wanted to see how one would fair against a loan Komodo dragon or perhaps a rightly pi**ed off Panda "bear"(Ever seen one of those things get mad? )
Rapists can be pitted against Huge gay gorillas of course and murderers would obviously be forced to fight a Lion that's been starved for 3 days:yh_think...Yep,..that would suffice
dandy desmond;1299837 wrote: how about a return to borstals and detention centres a short sharp shock for these young thugs
On the first Offence also.... Totally agree.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
To quote Roger Ebert's review of the comedy Cry Baby:
If there is one constant in recent social history, it is that we feel nostalgia for yesterday's teenage badness even while we fear today's....In every generation, teenagers find a way to express themselves and annoy adults. And the adults find in this teenage behavior signs of the collapse of civilization as they know it. "Cry-Baby," which is a good many things (including a passable imitation of a 1950s teenage exploitation movie) is, above all, a reminder of that process. Today's teenagers will grow up to be tomorrow's adults, and yet in every generation teenagers and adults seem to have as little knowledge of that ancient fact as the caterpillar has of the butterfly.
James Dean and Marlon Brando became icons for their portrayal of misguided youths.
That today's kids have access to harder drugs and more guns is hardly their own fault. Society will not collapse, it changes. If children feel more empowered in the world and free to shape and create a world of their own choice they'll likely do no worse than any other generation has done. As far as I'm concerned, we've handed them a mess so we should shut up and hope they find a solution.
G#Gill;1299666 wrote: These cowardly young scum only understand one law - pain!!
Would you like to provide any evidence at all for this claim? Or is it just something you wish were true?
What "these cowardly young scum", as you call them, enjoy above all else is, I expect, pissing off their elders. Your reaction here stirs them to greater heights of antisocial behaviour. Think Sid Vicious.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
spot;1299888 wrote: Would you like to provide any evidence at all for this claim? Or is it just something you wish were true?
What "these cowardly young scum", as you call them, enjoy above all else is, I expect, pissing off their elders. Your reaction here stirs them to greater heights of antisocial behaviour. Think Sid Vicious.
Sid Vicious was not a rebel. He was a sad Individual who was allegedly retarded In mental age and ability. He could not even play the Bass Guitar that he played In the Sex Pistols. He was used and exploited by Malcolm McClaren, John Lydon and Nancy Spungen who used him to line their own pockets. A pathetic young man who could not handle the fame or the drugs that came very often with Celeb lifestyle.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
spot;1299894 wrote: Perhaps that belongs in the Music Review forum?
Then maybe you should think twice before using a Punk Icon as a reference :p
Or... When using a music Figure as point of reference In a crime thread, maybe you should research a more suitable applicant as a marker of rebellion? I would suggest Jagger who through the 60's and 70's did just about any-thing to get up the Hooters of The Establishment. Another example would be Jean Jacques Burnel from the Punk era who Indeed spent time In a Nice Jail for Inciting a riot. That's Nice In France I refer to.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
oscar;1299896 wrote: Then maybe you should think twice before using a Punk Icon as a reference :p
Or... When using a music Figure as point of reference In a crime thread, maybe you should research a more suitable applicant as a marker of rebellion? I would suggest Jagger who through the 60's and 70's did just about any-thing to get up the Hooters of The Establishment. Another example would be Jean Jacques Burnel from the Punk era who Indeed spent time In a Nice Jail for Inciting a riot. That's Nice In France I refer to.
Here. Try reading about it perhaps. What they enjoy above all else is pissing off their elders and reaction stirs them to greater heights of antisocial behaviour. Think Sid Vicious.
In 1977 Kent was chain-whipped by then Sex Pistols fan Sid Vicious and had a knife waved in his face by Jah Wobble. And that was just for starters. "After the aforementioned knife-chain Sid incident," writes Kent in his book The Dark Stuff, "I became an ongoing victim of mindless punk brutality. I was stabbed repeatedly in an open field close to King's Cross by four youths clearly overwhelmed by the liberating force of punk rock and their ardent desire to ape anything Sid did. Another time I was attacked in the toilets of the fabled Roxy by a guy with a knife. I can distinctly remember staggering out of that privy with a great gash in my coat sleeve wondering to myself: Did Greil Marcus find himself in such life-or-death situations when out reviewing Randy Newman?"
Musical hack attacks | Music | guardian.co.uk
Your Stranglers don't come out too well in the article either.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
spot;1299897 wrote: Here. Try reading about it perhaps. What they enjoy above all else is pissing off their elders and reaction stirs them to greater heights of antisocial behaviour. Think Sid Vicious.
In 1977 Kent was chain-whipped by then Sex Pistols fan Sid Vicious and had a knife waved in his face by Jah Wobble. And that was just for starters. "After the aforementioned knife-chain Sid incident," writes Kent in his book The Dark Stuff, "I became an ongoing victim of mindless punk brutality. I was stabbed repeatedly in an open field close to King's Cross by four youths clearly overwhelmed by the liberating force of punk rock and their ardent desire to ape anything Sid did. Another time I was attacked in the toilets of the fabled Roxy by a guy with a knife. I can distinctly remember staggering out of that privy with a great gash in my coat sleeve wondering to myself: Did Greil Marcus find himself in such life-or-death situations when out reviewing Randy Newman?"
Musical hack attacks | Music | guardian.co.uk
Your Stranglers don't come out too well in the article either.
From that article, I see the point you are making, however, Vicious followed the pack of McClaren and Lydon with a sub normal mentality.
By comparison, All The Stranglers were highly Intelligent Individuals especially Hugh Cornwell who was a former Geneticist In sweden.
In the case of The Stranglers, It was always Burnel who acted Violently and not the other three. I have followed them for many years but I've no desire to emulate them and Gaffer tape a Journalist naked to The Eiffel Tower... oh, I don't know though.
Regardless, the Sex Pistols and Stranglers were the 70's and can not be used as an example of today's violent culture.
I believe Rap Artiste's today such as 'Biggy' and 'Tupac' are more responsible for youths trying to emulate them and some of the copy Cat violence carried out b the young today.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
:rolleyes:
(Ever seen one of those things get mad? 
)
