Is it just me?

[fuzzywuzzy]

Could you guys have a look at this pic and tell me what you get out of it?

Great artwork, I'm worried about the message it sends out though .

Your thoughts?



Spirit of CFA

click on the small thumbnail and it will enlarge it for you .

[Nomad]

Its all white people. Clearly a hostile message from whitey discriminating against and putting the screws to minorities.

[Ahso!]

Other than Nomad's observation, what is it that concerns you?

[Lon]

It seems to me to be a tribute to those that work as Firefighters, be they Firemen in a City/Cosmopolitan environment or forest wilderness environment .

Am I missing something? A different message perhaps.

[fuzzywuzzy]

The men are in the front looking all macho. In the second pic the captain has all the markings and PPC gear ...the female is in the background rather washed out and none of her PPC is marked (even the reflectors are not on her uniform)

In the third the sweet little urban firefighter "female" is looking all demure and she's standing next to a male firefighter again looking all macho in full PPC .

Neither female are wearing their helmets. They look like they were added as an afterthought.

And yes Nomad not one indigenious, although they do exist in northern Victorian townships. There is a huge push to get new Australians into the ranks. We have the same problem with surf life saving. Most drownings at beaches these days are of tourists or new arrivals to this country. There is a push to get these people into the ranks so it's not seen as an all australian white institution.

[fuzzywuzzy]

The question is ..Am I game enough to bring it up on CFA Connect?

[Ahso!]

I think the female not wearing the helmet is so the viewer will notice its a female. As for the other things you mention about the female, I assume its due to the fact that shes relatively further back. Other than what Nomad mentioned, I think the pictures are fine.

But of course, since you have a stake in them I understand your concerns.

[spot]

Rather than asking whether it's an inclusive representation you might ask instead whether it's typical.

[fuzzywuzzy]

Trust me Spot it is. If Culturally this is how we are seen then we are in a lot of trouble.

I'm almost tempted to paint another one. Or commission another.

I'm embroiled in an argument at he moment about PPC attire ...All mens sizing . boots...all mens sizing. Face masks and goggles don't fit the structure and frame of the female face. The issued boots are 1/2 a stone heavy . when I memtioned that I bought and was properly fitted with different boots I was told off for not wearing the proper PPC attire. considering it would be more dangerous for me in terms of footing to wear the cheap issued attire I'm quite happy breaking the rules. For my own protection.

[spot]

fuzzywuzzy;1291401 wrote: Trust me Spot it is. If Culturally this is how we are seen then we are in a lot of trouble.No, that's not what I asked - not is it a typical representation, is it typical of the reality of firefighting?

[fuzzywuzzy]

again yes................ I knew what you were saying.

[fuzzywuzzy]

Okay I did it, I brought it up .....oh Shi't................... watch the hoses and BA equipment get swung around the stations.

this is what I wrote. I think it's diplomatic enough

For fear of being branded a Femo I would like to comment on the painting .

The artistic quality is great!!!

I fear though, that if this is a true representation from a cultural point of view of the CFA then we really have some work to do.

I think if the general population sees the CFA (and this painting will enforce the stereotype) as a White Male organization then I feel we are on a long road in correcting that representation.

[Betty Boop]

Good for you fuzzy, I must admit that I thought the women looked inferior to the men, their uniform appears to be different!

[spot]

It's a question of whether the cultural representation leads the reality on the ground or follows it. Either one paints an ideal or presses for the ideal to be actualized. Painting the unreal is a bit propagandist.

[Amythest]

fuzzywuzzy wrote;

>>For fear of being branded a Femo I would like to comment on the painting .

The artistic quality is great!!!

I fear though, that if this is a true representation from a cultural point of view of the CFA then we really have some work to do.

I think if the general population sees the CFA (and this painting will enforce the stereotype) as a White Male organization then I feel we are on a long road in correcting that representation. <<

Please don't take this the wrong way but the CFA IS mostly a White Male organization. The job is tough, requires brute strength and any woman who chooses firefighting as a career HAS huge boots to fill. Depicting FF's in the midst of a fire may appear macho. Even a woman FF would grimace, show physical stress, and be covered in ash. I don't see the painting as a "macho" piece. It depicts the stresses of the job.

I also work in a feild ( Landscaping) that is mostly men. Why? Size and strength is all. MOST women wouldn't take it on and aren't attracted to the labour part even though some of the highest paying jobs are in the skilled areas.. In my feild machines do most of the heavy work. It isn't only that. It is a male dominated trade ( Like ALL trades) and i am a minority. I either build my strength, be able to keep up or I'm out! Or i specialize and work for myself ( which is what i do) I also do design and am a Horticulturist so labour doesn't fill all of my duties. I opt for the mens work clothes and boots because they are made better and last longer.

In FF you can't get a machine in a burning building to break down walls, carry out victims, hold the hose. It's emergency response so machinary or gadgets aren't practical.

You DO deserve good support in the CFA if you meet their requirements. That painting should illustrate a woman in Full garb, and that's all i see as needing a touch up. If the male FF is exiting the burning woods maybe his helmet should come off. Either way your contributions should recieve as much care and respect.

Choosing a career in a male dominated industry will always get my back up too. Oh I get ruffled sometimes! Especially when i see some of the slobs, out of shape, getting good pay, producing shoddy work, and i haven't a chance to fill their shoes just beacuse I'm a middle aged woman ( now). I took my experience, from running crews, doing design and construction with a larger Co, to private because i was getting older and i noticed I wasn't moving up or getting my dues. I have all the credentials training and work background. I just don't have a beer belly and a, well U know!



I find the free market ( customers) don't put up the same roadblocks.

[fuzzywuzzy]

thanks amythest No I didn't take it the wrong way . I get where you're coming from.

Anyone else like to comment?:) just interested in your thoughts.

[fuzzywuzzy]

Betty Boop;1291423 wrote: Good for you fuzzy, I must admit that I thought the women looked inferior to the men, their uniform appears to be different!


In the middle pic you are correct there are no markings to identify her as a CFA member. She apparently is wearing the uiform of the ASH WEdnesday fires. She's carrying a helmet and that's it . the male although a "captain", has all his correct PPC on. In the third again she is smaller and "looks" inferior to the men , although she would be wearing the same PPC as they do in the same job. (she is wearing structural urban PPC.) Again and unlike the males she is not wearing her helmet but instead holding it.

Third panel "Out front is a brigade captain from the 1860’s, behind him from left: uniformed fire-fighter from 1918, boy in training 2009 (the future fire-fighter), red coats early 1900's, black uniforms from 1920's, female firefighter 2009, 1980's gear and our new Nomex structural PPC.

Different age groups, nationalities, genders and religious groups are represented in the picture which depicts CFA as it is today – a proudly diverse organisation made up of people from all walks of life."

Maybe it's the size of the picture as to why I can't see that last comment ?

I don't think it was deliberate on the part of the artist . but where ....as Nomad pointed out are not so brown members.

CFA's disclaimer.



The painting also encapsulates large historical moments in Victoria’s bushfire history including the 1851 bushfire, Ash Wednesday in 1983 through to the horrendous fires of Black Saturday 2009.

“There’s always a large amount of responsibility when you attempt to depict an organisation as historical, passionate and linked with the community as CFA, however I attempted to show the respect and dignity to the painting as is shown by CFA members day-in, day-out.”

Below is Cooper’s story and interpretation of the painting.

“My endeavor has been to depict on canvas, the spirit of CFA. That covers a huge spectrum of activities and themes. It has been a challenge and a privilege to try and express the essence of this unique organisation in one image.

[mikeinie]

For starters in the first picture they are pointing the hose in the wrong direction; the house that is on fire is behind them.

Second frame, I don’t agree with some of the descriptions of the woman that have been written, I think that she is standing tall and firm. There is a good strong stride in her step.

The third looks ok to me.

[cars]

Yes!

[Steev]

A person could read all kinds of things into this piece but, I think it's a rather typical representation of how things are. Fire fighting a male dominated occupation.

If a woman can provide the same grade of work as a man in whatever field, then of course she should be afforded the same benefits as them. There should be no special provisions based on gender.

[abbey]

Maybe the helmet was left off the woman so that she may be identified as a woman to show they have a role in the fire service.

[BTS]

This thread is a GREAT example of political correctness RUN amuk

[LarsMac]

Wow.

I actually agree with BTS.

Once you try to be "inclusive" you start running into all sorts of different people who will resent being left out.