Some of these are hardly ever here.
Do they stay in the background or do they rarely show up now?
Who's Sheryl?
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Abbey,Betty Boop, Bryn Mawr, Carla, Carolly, Chezzie, Chonsigirl, Flopstock, G#Gill, G-man, Koan, MrsK, Mustang, Peg, Sheryl.
Some of these are hardly ever here.
Do they stay in the background or do they rarely show up now?
Who's Sheryl?
Some of these are hardly ever here.
Do they stay in the background or do they rarely show up now?
Who's Sheryl?
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Bryn Mawr;1281039 wrote: Patience, patience :wah:
i aint got any, can i have one of yours;):D
i aint got any, can i have one of yours;):D
FOC THREAD PART1
In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.
Martin Luther King Jr.
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kazalala;1281042 wrote: i aint got any, can i have one of yours;):D
You can try but mine is non too good lately
You can try but mine is non too good lately
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Bryn Mawr;1281047 wrote: You can try but mine is non too good lately
dammit:-5:yh_rotfl
dammit:-5:yh_rotfl
FOC THREAD PART1
In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.
Martin Luther King Jr.
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Rapunzel;1281040 wrote: Some of these are hardly ever here.
Do they stay in the background or do they rarely show up now?
Who's Sheryl?
some of them hide, just waiting to pounce on us!:yh_rotfl
Do they stay in the background or do they rarely show up now?
Who's Sheryl?
some of them hide, just waiting to pounce on us!:yh_rotfl
Life is just to short for drama.
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Odie;1281084 wrote: some of them hide, just waiting to pounce on us!:yh_rotfl
BO!
Got you :yh_rotfl
BO!
Got you :yh_rotfl
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Well I don't know how I missed it, but I haven't seen this thread since about page 3. Earlier I replied to a comment on the last page and then I started to read through the whole thread. I'd like to answer some of the comments made on this thread but I don't want to start up some huge argument about it because I really just don't give a sh** about all this sh** any more.
What I would like to do is try to explain the feelings of people at that time.
My attitude now is to just enjoy the light stuff. I just don't care about all the cr*p any more, I don't want to be involved in it.
Betty Boop;1265057 wrote: Maybe the system needs to generate an automatic response of 'thank you your report has been received'. Beyond that information, there is not a lot more that can be discussed between a member and a mod.
I think this is a really good idea. When you make a complaint, you send it off into cyber space and thats the last you ever hear. It would be nice to know a report has been received. Nicer still if someone could actually come back to you and say 'okay, we've read your complaint and it has been dealt with'. I don't need to know what's been done, just that it has been dealt with fairly. So many times it seems that if YOU complain then YOU get an infraction, whilst whoever was poking you or winding you up got away scott free. Maybe thats not fair. Maybe you do deal with everyone fairly. All I'm saying is that is how it APPEARS to be.
Knowing ones concerns have been read and understood would go a long way to calming hurt feelings.
Betty Boop;1265070 wrote: Can I just ask what you want to be 'seen to be done' A monthly list of who got infracted this month? A list of members and their infraction status beside them? Without making every infraction/warning public knowledge then I can't see how things being 'seen to be done' can be achieved.
No. Infractions are a personal thing and should stay so. If someone wants to tell you then that is their choice. I tell people, I don't care if they know. I was angry because I didn't feel they were deserved. If someone could have talked to me in a pm and explained the situation and allowed me to put my side and discussed it with me, then I would have had a more reasonable frame of mind. I realise this would have taken someone's time and effort but then maybe if people's concerns were addressed honestly, perhaps such flair ups could be avoided.
The idea of a room was so that when several people shared a concern we could voice it without risk of infraction. And we wanted the mods to be able to answer honestly, instead of saying "You wouldn't understand!" all the time!
The problem was that every time I tried to talk to a mod they said "Sorry we can't answer that" So I asked "WHY?" And they replied "You wouldn't understand!"
WHY wouldn't I understand? I've had a good education. I have a degree. I teach others. I can't be THAT stupid, can I?
It's like hitting your head against a brick wall. All I ever wanted were some answers to some questions. I understand that Tombstone won't allow the mods to answer but that is such an annoying and patronising solution (I'm sorry TS but it is!) and it just made the whole situation worse.
People say we're adults and should act like adults, but we were being treated like naughty children AND paying a subscription for the privilege!
It was an annoying, antagonistic and patronising attitude. Far better to have talked quietly about our concerns than allowing this barrier to grow.
Mods were just as frustrated as we were. They kept saying TS wont let us talk. Then when WE, the members, tried to talk, we got infracted. They seemed to be dishing out infractions like sweeties. Here, have another one, would you like one or two? Take one for later too.
The mods, imo, also made it worse for themselves by repeatedly saying 'oh, we're so busy, this is so hard, you should appreciate what we do for you.'
Yet what we SAW them doing was treating us like children, handing out infractions like candy and clamming up and refusing to answer even the most civil questions. Yes, I appreciate they work hard behind the scenes, but as we don't see what they do, how can we really appreciate their work load?
What we DID see them doing was infracting some of us, whilst others of us appeared to be pretty nasty with their digs and their comments and yet not seeming to get any infractions at all.
Ok, that may not be how it WAS behind the scenes, but that was how it APPEARED to be from where I was standing.
Sorry, I've digressed. As I said earlier, it would have helped if someone could sit down with me and answer my questions. Rather than waste one persons time, especially when several of us had the same questions, it would be easier to start a thread in a private room and say 'Okay, this is what we'd like to know...' and for the mod to tell us. Even if they can only say 'yes, we're looking into it and the person has been dealt with'. We don't need to know if they're given an infraction or a warning or even nothing. At least our concerns have been met.
Also if we want to complain. For instance, I could say that a lot of people are haranguing Odie lately. What can be done about it? I want to be able to speak up for Odie. If she's feeling down why should she be left to cope with all the nasty comments on her own? Why should she have to complain when I can voice a concern for her? If a child at school falls down and scrapes their knee, they are not forced to limp to the medical room alone and in tears. They always take a friend along who can help them to hop and who can explain clearly to the first aider exactly what happened. Did they fall and hurt themselves? Or were they pushed? And if they were pushed you go to find the culprit and ask for their side of the story. What happened? Sometimes it is clear who is the culprit. Sometimes it is a misunderstanding and you tell them to say sorry to each other and shake hands. Sometimes the culprit needs a mild punishment. That is when you could warn or infract.
The room idea was so that we could discuss a problem together. And for mods to answer honestly not keep spouting this 'you wouldn't understand' cr*p. We WANT to understand if you will let us.
I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm having a dig at the mods. It isn't meant to be. It's meant to be an explanation of how we felt and why we wanted the room. I guess the anger and upset of that time still linger in me somewhat and it's not as easy to describe as I thought it would be, without being a little emotive.
What I would like to do is try to explain the feelings of people at that time.
My attitude now is to just enjoy the light stuff. I just don't care about all the cr*p any more, I don't want to be involved in it.
Betty Boop;1265057 wrote: Maybe the system needs to generate an automatic response of 'thank you your report has been received'. Beyond that information, there is not a lot more that can be discussed between a member and a mod.
I think this is a really good idea. When you make a complaint, you send it off into cyber space and thats the last you ever hear. It would be nice to know a report has been received. Nicer still if someone could actually come back to you and say 'okay, we've read your complaint and it has been dealt with'. I don't need to know what's been done, just that it has been dealt with fairly. So many times it seems that if YOU complain then YOU get an infraction, whilst whoever was poking you or winding you up got away scott free. Maybe thats not fair. Maybe you do deal with everyone fairly. All I'm saying is that is how it APPEARS to be.
Knowing ones concerns have been read and understood would go a long way to calming hurt feelings.
Betty Boop;1265070 wrote: Can I just ask what you want to be 'seen to be done' A monthly list of who got infracted this month? A list of members and their infraction status beside them? Without making every infraction/warning public knowledge then I can't see how things being 'seen to be done' can be achieved.
No. Infractions are a personal thing and should stay so. If someone wants to tell you then that is their choice. I tell people, I don't care if they know. I was angry because I didn't feel they were deserved. If someone could have talked to me in a pm and explained the situation and allowed me to put my side and discussed it with me, then I would have had a more reasonable frame of mind. I realise this would have taken someone's time and effort but then maybe if people's concerns were addressed honestly, perhaps such flair ups could be avoided.
The idea of a room was so that when several people shared a concern we could voice it without risk of infraction. And we wanted the mods to be able to answer honestly, instead of saying "You wouldn't understand!" all the time!
The problem was that every time I tried to talk to a mod they said "Sorry we can't answer that" So I asked "WHY?" And they replied "You wouldn't understand!"
WHY wouldn't I understand? I've had a good education. I have a degree. I teach others. I can't be THAT stupid, can I?
It's like hitting your head against a brick wall. All I ever wanted were some answers to some questions. I understand that Tombstone won't allow the mods to answer but that is such an annoying and patronising solution (I'm sorry TS but it is!) and it just made the whole situation worse.
People say we're adults and should act like adults, but we were being treated like naughty children AND paying a subscription for the privilege!
It was an annoying, antagonistic and patronising attitude. Far better to have talked quietly about our concerns than allowing this barrier to grow.
Mods were just as frustrated as we were. They kept saying TS wont let us talk. Then when WE, the members, tried to talk, we got infracted. They seemed to be dishing out infractions like sweeties. Here, have another one, would you like one or two? Take one for later too.
The mods, imo, also made it worse for themselves by repeatedly saying 'oh, we're so busy, this is so hard, you should appreciate what we do for you.'
Yet what we SAW them doing was treating us like children, handing out infractions like candy and clamming up and refusing to answer even the most civil questions. Yes, I appreciate they work hard behind the scenes, but as we don't see what they do, how can we really appreciate their work load?
What we DID see them doing was infracting some of us, whilst others of us appeared to be pretty nasty with their digs and their comments and yet not seeming to get any infractions at all.
Ok, that may not be how it WAS behind the scenes, but that was how it APPEARED to be from where I was standing.
Sorry, I've digressed. As I said earlier, it would have helped if someone could sit down with me and answer my questions. Rather than waste one persons time, especially when several of us had the same questions, it would be easier to start a thread in a private room and say 'Okay, this is what we'd like to know...' and for the mod to tell us. Even if they can only say 'yes, we're looking into it and the person has been dealt with'. We don't need to know if they're given an infraction or a warning or even nothing. At least our concerns have been met.
Also if we want to complain. For instance, I could say that a lot of people are haranguing Odie lately. What can be done about it? I want to be able to speak up for Odie. If she's feeling down why should she be left to cope with all the nasty comments on her own? Why should she have to complain when I can voice a concern for her? If a child at school falls down and scrapes their knee, they are not forced to limp to the medical room alone and in tears. They always take a friend along who can help them to hop and who can explain clearly to the first aider exactly what happened. Did they fall and hurt themselves? Or were they pushed? And if they were pushed you go to find the culprit and ask for their side of the story. What happened? Sometimes it is clear who is the culprit. Sometimes it is a misunderstanding and you tell them to say sorry to each other and shake hands. Sometimes the culprit needs a mild punishment. That is when you could warn or infract.
The room idea was so that we could discuss a problem together. And for mods to answer honestly not keep spouting this 'you wouldn't understand' cr*p. We WANT to understand if you will let us.
I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm having a dig at the mods. It isn't meant to be. It's meant to be an explanation of how we felt and why we wanted the room. I guess the anger and upset of that time still linger in me somewhat and it's not as easy to describe as I thought it would be, without being a little emotive.
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Chezzie;1265082 wrote:
I would welcome this "new forum" if it doesnt make more work for us mods and it isnt used for members to gang up on members they dont like and wish not to be in the garden. Am I right in thinking that members want to know who has infracted them and for it to be posted in this forum, do they want to raise their treatment from a reported post and try and get it reversed in this forum? Do they want to use it moan about other members and why they are not banned yet? I ask these questions as thats what people ask us in reported posts and I just see more fall outs on the forum. Hopefully thats NOT what you want cos I wont be part of that, im here voluntarily and dont need the hassle lol..
I don't know where you get these bizarre ideas.
No. The idea was not for members to gang up on each other at all.
It also wasn't for this:
Am I right in thinking that members want to know who has infracted them and for it to be posted in this forum, do they want to raise their treatment from a reported post and try and get it reversed in this forum?
Again...I don't know where you get these bizarre ideas.
Tbh, when you get an infraction you are also given the comment you made that earned you that infraction. Personally I found it was perfectly obvious who had infracted me , or rather, who had made the complaint that earned me the infraction, given the relevant quote.
And no, this is nothing to do with getting an infraction reversed.
It is simply about communication.
Communication between mods and members.
The ability to simply ask the question WHY? and to have it answered.
Is it REALLY so hard to understand?
I would welcome this "new forum" if it doesnt make more work for us mods and it isnt used for members to gang up on members they dont like and wish not to be in the garden. Am I right in thinking that members want to know who has infracted them and for it to be posted in this forum, do they want to raise their treatment from a reported post and try and get it reversed in this forum? Do they want to use it moan about other members and why they are not banned yet? I ask these questions as thats what people ask us in reported posts and I just see more fall outs on the forum. Hopefully thats NOT what you want cos I wont be part of that, im here voluntarily and dont need the hassle lol..
I don't know where you get these bizarre ideas.
No. The idea was not for members to gang up on each other at all.
It also wasn't for this:
Am I right in thinking that members want to know who has infracted them and for it to be posted in this forum, do they want to raise their treatment from a reported post and try and get it reversed in this forum?
Again...I don't know where you get these bizarre ideas.
Tbh, when you get an infraction you are also given the comment you made that earned you that infraction. Personally I found it was perfectly obvious who had infracted me , or rather, who had made the complaint that earned me the infraction, given the relevant quote.
And no, this is nothing to do with getting an infraction reversed.
It is simply about communication.
Communication between mods and members.
The ability to simply ask the question WHY? and to have it answered.
Is it REALLY so hard to understand?
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Bryn Mawr;1265088 wrote: I agree - within the rule we have been instructed to operate by we are not allowed to discuss the actions we take or the reasons for taking, or not taking, action.
By definition nothing can be seen to be done - that definitely does not mean that nothing is being done, just that we are fulfilling the Terms of Reference under which we work.
Imagine the board if this were not so. If every time a member reported a post that report was made public? If every back room discussion concerning such a report was carried out openly in a members forum and every infraction was handed out publicly.
I understand what you're saying. But could some discussions take place in a private room? Not of your final choice of action but if we could just discuss concerns we have?
It seems that every query was met with a blank wall and an infraction. Could we not at least discuss our concerns and not be met with a blank wall?
As Gill said, if it all went wrong then we could shut the room down. At least we would have given it a fair go.
The mods say they care about the site. But the members also care about the site. It's good to meet like-minded individuals for fun and for discussion. And in an adult world we DO discuss things, we don't just expect other people to obey our orders. Maybe at work you do, but thats not how you treat friends.
Wouldn't an attempt at communication be better than the constant flare-ups we were having?
By definition nothing can be seen to be done - that definitely does not mean that nothing is being done, just that we are fulfilling the Terms of Reference under which we work.
Imagine the board if this were not so. If every time a member reported a post that report was made public? If every back room discussion concerning such a report was carried out openly in a members forum and every infraction was handed out publicly.
I understand what you're saying. But could some discussions take place in a private room? Not of your final choice of action but if we could just discuss concerns we have?
It seems that every query was met with a blank wall and an infraction. Could we not at least discuss our concerns and not be met with a blank wall?
As Gill said, if it all went wrong then we could shut the room down. At least we would have given it a fair go.
The mods say they care about the site. But the members also care about the site. It's good to meet like-minded individuals for fun and for discussion. And in an adult world we DO discuss things, we don't just expect other people to obey our orders. Maybe at work you do, but thats not how you treat friends.
Wouldn't an attempt at communication be better than the constant flare-ups we were having?
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spot;1265095 wrote: So, is she right in thinking that members want to know who has infracted them and for it to be posted in the proposed forum? Because that's the hard question and since you're in favour of opening it I'd be interested in how you think it would work in practice.
Someone reports a post and the notification goes to the members-access forum as a new thread? Is that it?
Or someone reports a post and a moderator has to start a new thread in the members-access forum anonymising the report so that members can still make reports without any comeback from the person being reported? Does anyone seriously believe that would successfully hide the identity of the reporter?
Or perhaps each report has a tick-box, "I'd like this report discussing in the member-access forum"? What happens if the person complained of wants it discussing there but the reporter doesn't?
Come on, let's have a preview of how it's supposed to pan out.
Spotty, sarcasm ill becomes you.
That's not how it is at all, as I have explained above.
I am surprised at you for taking this kind of attitude with this kind of topic.
Are you feeling okay? (not said sarcastically, just in case you wondered, but in concern as you don't sound like you)
Someone reports a post and the notification goes to the members-access forum as a new thread? Is that it?
Or someone reports a post and a moderator has to start a new thread in the members-access forum anonymising the report so that members can still make reports without any comeback from the person being reported? Does anyone seriously believe that would successfully hide the identity of the reporter?
Or perhaps each report has a tick-box, "I'd like this report discussing in the member-access forum"? What happens if the person complained of wants it discussing there but the reporter doesn't?
Come on, let's have a preview of how it's supposed to pan out.
Spotty, sarcasm ill becomes you.
That's not how it is at all, as I have explained above.
I am surprised at you for taking this kind of attitude with this kind of topic.
Are you feeling okay? (not said sarcastically, just in case you wondered, but in concern as you don't sound like you)
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Chezzie;1265101 wrote:
Having said that, the last week or so has been lovely, no reported posts except for spam, maybe it will change when infractions expire and people think they can carry on as before???? Strange how quiet it gets in the mod forum when members get close to getting so many infractions the next would be a ban.:sneaky: Just sayin:)
Interesting point.
It is also strange how mods can hand out infractions in two's, just to get people off their backs, rather than actually deal with the problem.
However, when a member says "If you ban me I want my 2 year subscription back" the mods then back off rather than explain to TS why their heavy-handed attitude lost him funding.
:sneaky: Just saying.
Having said that, the last week or so has been lovely, no reported posts except for spam, maybe it will change when infractions expire and people think they can carry on as before???? Strange how quiet it gets in the mod forum when members get close to getting so many infractions the next would be a ban.:sneaky: Just sayin:)
Interesting point.
It is also strange how mods can hand out infractions in two's, just to get people off their backs, rather than actually deal with the problem.
However, when a member says "If you ban me I want my 2 year subscription back" the mods then back off rather than explain to TS why their heavy-handed attitude lost him funding.
:sneaky: Just saying.
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spot;1265121 wrote: I'm not interested in finding out what's going to happen - I can discover that by waiting and seeing. Neither am I stirring - the people asking for the new area are stirring, I'm merely reacting out of curiosity. I'm interested in finding out what the proponents of the idea think would work.
If Gill doesn't have a clue despite all her pushing the proposal, perhaps Rapunzel does?
Are any of my questions unreasonable? Or answerable?
For some reason you've all gone off at a complete tangent.
I hope my answers above help clarify the situation.
As I said earlier, I was frustrated that I couldn't get help from the mods or any clear answers. That situation will be repeated ad infinitum amongst other members for as long as you continue to shut them out.
Don't think it is just the mods who suffered. We all felt angry and frustrated.
I had to vent or explode so I vented on another forum.
Many people were angry over this and I lost many friends because of it. Well, I'm sorry if I hurt you but I was hurting very badly too. I was upset and frustrated and being punished erroneously, in my opinion.
If we could have discussed things I would have felt better and that vent would never have happened.
Now it's out there and I feel better for it. I said what I felt needed to be said without being punished/infracted/banned for it. I needed to be heard.
A discussion, earlier on, could have prevented all this bad feeling. A place where we could honestly say what we thought and get honest replies. Even if you can't say, just say "I'm sorry but I really can't answer that". Saying "You wouldn't understand" just lights the match for the fuse.
Anyway, those are the points I wanted to make. I'm sure I'll be slated in return, but maybe you'll at least THINK about doing things differently. That would be a great start.
If Gill doesn't have a clue despite all her pushing the proposal, perhaps Rapunzel does?
Are any of my questions unreasonable? Or answerable?
For some reason you've all gone off at a complete tangent.
I hope my answers above help clarify the situation.
As I said earlier, I was frustrated that I couldn't get help from the mods or any clear answers. That situation will be repeated ad infinitum amongst other members for as long as you continue to shut them out.
Don't think it is just the mods who suffered. We all felt angry and frustrated.
I had to vent or explode so I vented on another forum.
Many people were angry over this and I lost many friends because of it. Well, I'm sorry if I hurt you but I was hurting very badly too. I was upset and frustrated and being punished erroneously, in my opinion.
If we could have discussed things I would have felt better and that vent would never have happened.
Now it's out there and I feel better for it. I said what I felt needed to be said without being punished/infracted/banned for it. I needed to be heard.
A discussion, earlier on, could have prevented all this bad feeling. A place where we could honestly say what we thought and get honest replies. Even if you can't say, just say "I'm sorry but I really can't answer that". Saying "You wouldn't understand" just lights the match for the fuse.
Anyway, those are the points I wanted to make. I'm sure I'll be slated in return, but maybe you'll at least THINK about doing things differently. That would be a great start.
-
ButterflyPrincess
- Posts: 939
- Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:06 am
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Very Cool can't wait... not that there is anything wrong with what we've got!
You take good care of us Tombstone!:)
You take good care of us Tombstone!:)
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Bryn Mawr;1281099 wrote:
BO!
Got you :yh_rotfl
:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
at least you don't wait for the wee hours of the night to pounce!:wah:
BO!
Got you :yh_rotfl
:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
at least you don't wait for the wee hours of the night to pounce!:wah:
Life is just to short for drama.
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Rapunzel;1281118 wrote: Spotty, sarcasm ill becomes you.
That's not how it is at all, as I have explained above.
I am surprised at you for taking this kind of attitude with this kind of topic.
Are you feeling okay? (not said sarcastically, just in case you wondered, but in concern as you don't sound like you)
There wasn't a sarcastic word in what I wrote, it was entirely serious. If you'd try answering it instead of glossing past it you'll realize the impossibility of what you're asking for.
Who raises the matter in this new area you're asking for? The reporter? The person reported? The moderator who deals with the issue?
What can get quoted in there? The initial report? The moderator response? The PM discussion with the person reported?
Are whatever rules you're inventing in answer to this applicable to all reports and all moderator reactions, or just some? What if the reporter doesn't want his report publicizing? What if the reported person doesn't want the warning or infraction discussing in public? If a thread's started over an infraction, are you going to allow the moderator to publish the entire correspondence into the thread to provide a balanced view?
Why on earth do you think this is sarcastic observation? It's central to what you're trying to implement and neither you nor Gill will even recognize the questions exist.
That's not how it is at all, as I have explained above.
I am surprised at you for taking this kind of attitude with this kind of topic.
Are you feeling okay? (not said sarcastically, just in case you wondered, but in concern as you don't sound like you)
There wasn't a sarcastic word in what I wrote, it was entirely serious. If you'd try answering it instead of glossing past it you'll realize the impossibility of what you're asking for.
Who raises the matter in this new area you're asking for? The reporter? The person reported? The moderator who deals with the issue?
What can get quoted in there? The initial report? The moderator response? The PM discussion with the person reported?
Are whatever rules you're inventing in answer to this applicable to all reports and all moderator reactions, or just some? What if the reporter doesn't want his report publicizing? What if the reported person doesn't want the warning or infraction discussing in public? If a thread's started over an infraction, are you going to allow the moderator to publish the entire correspondence into the thread to provide a balanced view?
Why on earth do you think this is sarcastic observation? It's central to what you're trying to implement and neither you nor Gill will even recognize the questions exist.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Don't drag me into this, Mr. Spot ! I only made the initial suggestion. The finer points to be ironed out and submitted for selelction by the mods and TS.
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
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spot;1281164 wrote: There wasn't a sarcastic word in what I wrote, it was entirely serious. If you'd try answering it instead of glossing past it you'll realize the impossibility of what you're asking for.
Who raises the matter in this new area you're asking for? The reporter? The person reported? The moderator who deals with the issue?
What can get quoted in there? The initial report? The moderator response? The PM discussion with the person reported?
Are whatever rules you're inventing in answer to this applicable to all reports and all moderator reactions, or just some? What if the reporter doesn't want his report publicizing? What if the reported person doesn't want the warning or infraction discussing in public? If a thread's started over an infraction, are you going to allow the moderator to publish the entire correspondence into the thread to provide a balanced view?
Why on earth do you think this is sarcastic observation? It's central to what you're trying to implement and neither you nor Gill will even recognize the questions exist.
As I already said, this has nothing to do with a reporter or a reportee.
It would be to deal with issues as they arise.
It's nothing to do with infractions either.
I have already said all of this spot. You complain when people don't read your threads carefully, but did you read any of mine?
I don't think you understand the point I am trying to make, so rather than me reiterate ad nauseum, why don't you tell me what you think I'm trying to say and then give me your solution for the problem?
At the moment it is simply an idea on a drawing board that is going to need a heck of a lot of tweaking.
Why don't you give me some of your ideas on how mods and members could converse more clearly without the barrier which currently exists? To be able to talk clearly without the mods having to say "I can't tell you that" or "You wouldn't understand".
How can we discuss issues we have which the mods cannot currently discuss with us? Can it be done? How can it be done?
Unlike Pooh, you are a bear of exceedingly large brain Spot. Rather than ask questions which, imo, are irrelevant, why not define the problem and see if you can come up with a solution?
NB. They have a members room on 24, maybe it would be worth your while to investigate that?
Thankyou. :0) (a smiley for Spot)
Who raises the matter in this new area you're asking for? The reporter? The person reported? The moderator who deals with the issue?
What can get quoted in there? The initial report? The moderator response? The PM discussion with the person reported?
Are whatever rules you're inventing in answer to this applicable to all reports and all moderator reactions, or just some? What if the reporter doesn't want his report publicizing? What if the reported person doesn't want the warning or infraction discussing in public? If a thread's started over an infraction, are you going to allow the moderator to publish the entire correspondence into the thread to provide a balanced view?
Why on earth do you think this is sarcastic observation? It's central to what you're trying to implement and neither you nor Gill will even recognize the questions exist.
As I already said, this has nothing to do with a reporter or a reportee.
It would be to deal with issues as they arise.
It's nothing to do with infractions either.
I have already said all of this spot. You complain when people don't read your threads carefully, but did you read any of mine?
I don't think you understand the point I am trying to make, so rather than me reiterate ad nauseum, why don't you tell me what you think I'm trying to say and then give me your solution for the problem?
At the moment it is simply an idea on a drawing board that is going to need a heck of a lot of tweaking.
Why don't you give me some of your ideas on how mods and members could converse more clearly without the barrier which currently exists? To be able to talk clearly without the mods having to say "I can't tell you that" or "You wouldn't understand".
How can we discuss issues we have which the mods cannot currently discuss with us? Can it be done? How can it be done?
Unlike Pooh, you are a bear of exceedingly large brain Spot. Rather than ask questions which, imo, are irrelevant, why not define the problem and see if you can come up with a solution?
NB. They have a members room on 24, maybe it would be worth your while to investigate that?
Thankyou. :0) (a smiley for Spot)
ForumGarden Upgraded Software Update
The site is called 'Hello, 24 hours' not to be mixed up with '24 hours' which is a site for fans of the series '24' on TV !
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
ForumGarden Upgraded Software Update
Rapunzel;1281230 wrote: As I already said, this has nothing to do with a reporter or a reportee.
It would be to deal with issues as they arise.
It's nothing to do with infractions either.
I have already said all of this spot. You complain when people don't read your threads carefully, but did you read any of mine?None of that's true. I suggest you re-read the thread. The first time you posted any suggestions into it was today, all your other posts here were me-too thank-you one-liners in big coloured fonts.
Here are the salient points so far: Originally Posted by Odie
If a report has been made, members will be notified it was received and what happened.
Originally Posted by spot
"If a report has been made," - note the singular "report" - "members will be notified" - note the plural "members" - "it was received and what happened". That can't be a PM to the reporter, that has to be a post to the new forum area.
Originally Posted by Chezzie
Am I right in thinking that members want to know who has infracted them and for it to be posted in this forum, do they want to raise their treatment from a reported post and try and get it reversed in this forum?
Originally Posted by G#Gill
It would take the suspicion away from any decisions made by mods or admin, and also if a complaint is made through the 'report button', the complainant will be able to find out what, if anything, has been done about that complaint.
Originally Posted by G#Gill
Obviously Spot, all these things will have to be discussed fully between the mods and Tombstone, and until then nobody can indicate what, which and how this 'room' will operate, or whether it will actually 'get off the ground' even
Originally Posted by spot
RJ's suggested forum area already exists on FG - it's the Compost Pile.
Rapunzel wrote: How can we discuss issues we have which the mods cannot currently discuss with us? Can it be done? How can it be done?I've already pointed out the problems earlier in the thread. Here they are again. Perhaps you could focus on each point and reply to them all.
It would be to deal with issues as they arise.
It's nothing to do with infractions either.
I have already said all of this spot. You complain when people don't read your threads carefully, but did you read any of mine?None of that's true. I suggest you re-read the thread. The first time you posted any suggestions into it was today, all your other posts here were me-too thank-you one-liners in big coloured fonts.
Here are the salient points so far: Originally Posted by Odie
If a report has been made, members will be notified it was received and what happened.
Originally Posted by spot
"If a report has been made," - note the singular "report" - "members will be notified" - note the plural "members" - "it was received and what happened". That can't be a PM to the reporter, that has to be a post to the new forum area.
Originally Posted by Chezzie
Am I right in thinking that members want to know who has infracted them and for it to be posted in this forum, do they want to raise their treatment from a reported post and try and get it reversed in this forum?
Originally Posted by G#Gill
It would take the suspicion away from any decisions made by mods or admin, and also if a complaint is made through the 'report button', the complainant will be able to find out what, if anything, has been done about that complaint.
Originally Posted by G#Gill
Obviously Spot, all these things will have to be discussed fully between the mods and Tombstone, and until then nobody can indicate what, which and how this 'room' will operate, or whether it will actually 'get off the ground' even
Originally Posted by spot
RJ's suggested forum area already exists on FG - it's the Compost Pile.
Rapunzel wrote: How can we discuss issues we have which the mods cannot currently discuss with us? Can it be done? How can it be done?I've already pointed out the problems earlier in the thread. Here they are again. Perhaps you could focus on each point and reply to them all.
- How can the member-access forum possibly be made aware of a confidential report?
Would people continue to make reports if they were no longer to be confidential?
Who tells the forum a report's been made and what poster it was criticizing?
Can either the reporter or the reported poster ask for it not to be discussed?
Should members be kept up to date on what was asked of the reporter or the poster reported, and how they replied?
If not, what is meant to go on in there instead?If all that's required is a member-only space for thrashing out disagreements, there's the Compost Pile already waiting for exactly that. I'd ask again, though - why does the new proposed area need to be member-only? Why exclude guests reading the discussion? We're agreed, I hope, that the discussions will be civil. Assuming it is, Problems and Feedback is the obvious place to do it.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
ForumGarden Upgraded Software Update
I think Spot is right and the compost may be the place to take up these issues.
Though there are a couple of other issues I think could warrant some attention.
I wonder if there is some way to give a thread starter more say in what posts remain in a thread in certain forums - not all.
I recently had an issue where a couple of members wandered into a thread of mine and when I asked them to please refrain from posting non pertinent posts in the thread one immediately complied with my request and the other became belligerent. I reported the offensive post and it was subsequently removed after some conversation with one of the moderators. I could not however get the persons other posts removed as I was informed that removal of posts is not done lightly, and I agree with that. However, these posts were so far from relevant to the thread and trivial in nature I wondered if a moderator is reluctant to enforce some sort of standards when requested, what can they do? The moderator I conversed with was understanding and professional, and i have no problem with them.
Perhaps we could agree on some sort of division of forums where this type of conduct is forbidden, and moderators can be a bit more forceful with their authority at the request of the thread starter. Forum Garden has soo many forums (too many in my opinion) that maybe just the religious forums, political forums, philosophy forums and self help forums could qualify as more heavily moderated.
In this case if a thread is being abused the thread starter could ask the poster involved to cease the behavior and remove the irrelevant posts and if not complied with could then report the post. Members who become flagrant abusers could be warned or received an infraction if necessary. Of course this could be difficult to become accustomed to at first and the mods might be overwhelmed but that could be handled.
The other issue for me is it seems some of the mods are reluctant to post and thats really too bad because they are bright and fun people and thats 10 members or so not posting much. I'd encourage the moderators to become more involved in the posting of the site.
Though there are a couple of other issues I think could warrant some attention.
I wonder if there is some way to give a thread starter more say in what posts remain in a thread in certain forums - not all.
I recently had an issue where a couple of members wandered into a thread of mine and when I asked them to please refrain from posting non pertinent posts in the thread one immediately complied with my request and the other became belligerent. I reported the offensive post and it was subsequently removed after some conversation with one of the moderators. I could not however get the persons other posts removed as I was informed that removal of posts is not done lightly, and I agree with that. However, these posts were so far from relevant to the thread and trivial in nature I wondered if a moderator is reluctant to enforce some sort of standards when requested, what can they do? The moderator I conversed with was understanding and professional, and i have no problem with them.
Perhaps we could agree on some sort of division of forums where this type of conduct is forbidden, and moderators can be a bit more forceful with their authority at the request of the thread starter. Forum Garden has soo many forums (too many in my opinion) that maybe just the religious forums, political forums, philosophy forums and self help forums could qualify as more heavily moderated.
In this case if a thread is being abused the thread starter could ask the poster involved to cease the behavior and remove the irrelevant posts and if not complied with could then report the post. Members who become flagrant abusers could be warned or received an infraction if necessary. Of course this could be difficult to become accustomed to at first and the mods might be overwhelmed but that could be handled.
The other issue for me is it seems some of the mods are reluctant to post and thats really too bad because they are bright and fun people and thats 10 members or so not posting much. I'd encourage the moderators to become more involved in the posting of the site.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
ForumGarden Upgraded Software Update
Ahso, I think you are pinpointing an issue which has caused quite a bit of tension to many of us. We start a thread and as originator often expect to have some say in the development of the thread. I get frustrated, when something I've started spirals out of my hands, is swamped by irritating irrelevant trivia, is hijacked for someone else's agenda or gets taken over / killed off by people I don't like or don't want to talk to.
There are some forums out there where individual members have mod type powers in certain areas assigned to them. They can admit only their group, and exclude anyone else, delete posts they don't want.
Forum Garden does not work this way, and it is clear that all threads in the forum belong not to the Opening Poster but to the Forum. No one has any right of ownership to a thread, so cannot exclude any member or guest who wishes to enter and do whatever they like in the thread, subject to the TOS.
It's a policy decision - and I guess has pros and cons.
Limiting the course of a thread can mean you miss out on those moments of unexpected, unpredicted amazement - when a new thought is offered, a new approach turns things happily topsy turvy, a new personality is revealed, a new burst of creativity comes spontaneously into being.
There are some forums out there where individual members have mod type powers in certain areas assigned to them. They can admit only their group, and exclude anyone else, delete posts they don't want.
Forum Garden does not work this way, and it is clear that all threads in the forum belong not to the Opening Poster but to the Forum. No one has any right of ownership to a thread, so cannot exclude any member or guest who wishes to enter and do whatever they like in the thread, subject to the TOS.
It's a policy decision - and I guess has pros and cons.
Limiting the course of a thread can mean you miss out on those moments of unexpected, unpredicted amazement - when a new thought is offered, a new approach turns things happily topsy turvy, a new personality is revealed, a new burst of creativity comes spontaneously into being.
"Life is too short to ski with ugly men"
ForumGarden Upgraded Software Update
spot;1281239 wrote: None of that's true.
Spot,
why would I lie?
I have said what I thought the members room should be.
You have focussed heavily on what other people, NOT I, have said and also on the fact that you assume it is all about arguments and infractions.
That is NOT what I personally meant.
Other people have other thoughts on this which I can't answer for.
You are talking about confidential reports, reporting people and criticizing.
All of these things would be harmful in the extreme and as I KEEP SAYING that is NOT what I am talking about.
I have already answered your questions on what I THINK.
If you're going to quote other people then why not ask THEM what THEY think?
Personally I think you've gone off at a tangent and have no appreciation for what I'm saying and at this juncture it's just too much bloody effort. If you can't understand what I'm telling you either leave it alone of just don't bloody bother with the whole idea. Okay?
Spot,
why would I lie?
I have said what I thought the members room should be.
You have focussed heavily on what other people, NOT I, have said and also on the fact that you assume it is all about arguments and infractions.
That is NOT what I personally meant.
Other people have other thoughts on this which I can't answer for.
You are talking about confidential reports, reporting people and criticizing.
All of these things would be harmful in the extreme and as I KEEP SAYING that is NOT what I am talking about.
I have already answered your questions on what I THINK.
If you're going to quote other people then why not ask THEM what THEY think?
Personally I think you've gone off at a tangent and have no appreciation for what I'm saying and at this juncture it's just too much bloody effort. If you can't understand what I'm telling you either leave it alone of just don't bloody bother with the whole idea. Okay?
ForumGarden Upgraded Software Update
I can understand the policy decision. Its just a shame that certain members can't respect a reasonable request by other members.
In my situation, the one gentleman who did comply removed more posts than i had requested while the other took a, shall we say, less sophisticated position. What I regret most about the incident is the fact that I had to make a bit of a scene and bother others (moderators) due to the fact that there were no better faculties for me to appeal to with the person in question. To top it off I had to put up with annoying PM's until I put this person on ignore. Now, I'm an adult and understand that this happens occasionally, but I'm figuring this may be an opportunity to perhaps enhance the rules somewhat.
I'm aware some thread starters would get carried away especially at first, but would get a better feel of things eventually. As it is right now I'm reluctant to begin any threads at least until I think this member has calmed down.
In my situation, the one gentleman who did comply removed more posts than i had requested while the other took a, shall we say, less sophisticated position. What I regret most about the incident is the fact that I had to make a bit of a scene and bother others (moderators) due to the fact that there were no better faculties for me to appeal to with the person in question. To top it off I had to put up with annoying PM's until I put this person on ignore. Now, I'm an adult and understand that this happens occasionally, but I'm figuring this may be an opportunity to perhaps enhance the rules somewhat.
I'm aware some thread starters would get carried away especially at first, but would get a better feel of things eventually. As it is right now I'm reluctant to begin any threads at least until I think this member has calmed down.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
ForumGarden Upgraded Software Update
Rapunzel;1281377 wrote: Personally I think you've gone off at a tangent and have no appreciation for what I'm saying and at this juncture it's just too much bloody effort. If you can't understand what I'm telling you either leave it alone of just don't bloody bother with the whole idea. Okay?I've no doubt there's something I'm missing but I'll say again something that's undoubtedly true. The first time you posted any suggestions into the thread was today, all your other posts here were me-too thank-you one-liners in big coloured fonts.
What have I not grasped?
And what's the reason for needing a member-only forum? Why do you want to keep guests from reading the space you're talking about?
And what's wrong with the Compost, if that's what you want to do?
And what's wrong with Problems and Feedback, if the member-only thing is irrelevant?
What have I not grasped?
And what's the reason for needing a member-only forum? Why do you want to keep guests from reading the space you're talking about?
And what's wrong with the Compost, if that's what you want to do?
And what's wrong with Problems and Feedback, if the member-only thing is irrelevant?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
Betty Boop
- Posts: 16983
- Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:17 pm
- Location: The end of the World
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Ahso!;1281351 wrote: I think Spot is right and the compost may be the place to take up these issues.
Though there are a couple of other issues I think could warrant some attention.
I wonder if there is some way to give a thread starter more say in what posts remain in a thread in certain forums - not all.
I recently had an issue where a couple of members wandered into a thread of mine and when I asked them to please refrain from posting non pertinent posts in the thread one immediately complied with my request and the other became belligerent. I reported the offensive post and it was subsequently removed after some conversation with one of the moderators. I could not however get the persons other posts removed as I was informed that removal of posts is not done lightly, and I agree with that. However, these posts were so far from relevant to the thread and trivial in nature I wondered if a moderator is reluctant to enforce some sort of standards when requested, what can they do? The moderator I conversed with was understanding and professional, and i have no problem with them.
Perhaps we could agree on some sort of division of forums where this type of conduct is forbidden, and moderators can be a bit more forceful with their authority at the request of the thread starter. Forum Garden has soo many forums (too many in my opinion) that maybe just the religious forums, political forums, philosophy forums and self help forums could qualify as more heavily moderated.
In this case if a thread is being abused the thread starter could ask the poster involved to cease the behavior and remove the irrelevant posts and if not complied with could then report the post. Members who become flagrant abusers could be warned or received an infraction if necessary. Of course this could be difficult to become accustomed to at first and the mods might be overwhelmed but that could be handled.
The other issue for me is it seems some of the mods are reluctant to post and thats really too bad because they are bright and fun people and thats 10 members or so not posting much. I'd encourage the moderators to become more involved in the posting of the site.
That's a fair enough point, my first thought was, good lord we as mods will have to be on top of who is friends with who :-3 or do you mean more of a 'happy for anyone to post as long as it stays on topic'? I can imagine that sort of policing disintegrating and being used as a 'your not in my gang' game. hmmm
Though there are a couple of other issues I think could warrant some attention.
I wonder if there is some way to give a thread starter more say in what posts remain in a thread in certain forums - not all.
I recently had an issue where a couple of members wandered into a thread of mine and when I asked them to please refrain from posting non pertinent posts in the thread one immediately complied with my request and the other became belligerent. I reported the offensive post and it was subsequently removed after some conversation with one of the moderators. I could not however get the persons other posts removed as I was informed that removal of posts is not done lightly, and I agree with that. However, these posts were so far from relevant to the thread and trivial in nature I wondered if a moderator is reluctant to enforce some sort of standards when requested, what can they do? The moderator I conversed with was understanding and professional, and i have no problem with them.
Perhaps we could agree on some sort of division of forums where this type of conduct is forbidden, and moderators can be a bit more forceful with their authority at the request of the thread starter. Forum Garden has soo many forums (too many in my opinion) that maybe just the religious forums, political forums, philosophy forums and self help forums could qualify as more heavily moderated.
In this case if a thread is being abused the thread starter could ask the poster involved to cease the behavior and remove the irrelevant posts and if not complied with could then report the post. Members who become flagrant abusers could be warned or received an infraction if necessary. Of course this could be difficult to become accustomed to at first and the mods might be overwhelmed but that could be handled.
The other issue for me is it seems some of the mods are reluctant to post and thats really too bad because they are bright and fun people and thats 10 members or so not posting much. I'd encourage the moderators to become more involved in the posting of the site.
That's a fair enough point, my first thought was, good lord we as mods will have to be on top of who is friends with who :-3 or do you mean more of a 'happy for anyone to post as long as it stays on topic'? I can imagine that sort of policing disintegrating and being used as a 'your not in my gang' game. hmmm
ForumGarden Upgraded Software Update
Betty Boop;1281401 wrote: That's a fair enough point, my first thought was, good lord we as mods will have to be on top of who is friends with who :-3 or do you mean more of a 'happy for anyone to post as long as it stays on topic'? I can imagine that sort of policing disintegrating and being used as a 'your not in my gang' game. hmmmThats why I only suggest it in some forums. The chit chat and lounge and others don't need it, but if a person decides to Begin a thread in one of the moderated forums, then members will know that only relevant posts are expected.
The thread owner shouldn't get too anal about the posts because sometimes its necessary to veer a little to make a point.
The thread owner shouldn't get too anal about the posts because sometimes its necessary to veer a little to make a point.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
ForumGarden Upgraded Software Update
What I would expect to happen is when certain members abuse their authority others will steer clear of their threads and may cause members to become better at managing threads themselves.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
ForumGarden Upgraded Software Update
spot;1280980 wrote: It's a nasty business, going up to release 4. The makers say "Have you installed a custom theme or made any other major visual customizations to your site? The major improvements we made to the template system and the new XHTML site structure will cause most 3.x series themes to break. Check out". That's weeks of testing on FG before making release 4 live here and it's only three weeks since it was issued.
Any new bits yet?:-3
Any new bits yet?:-3
FOC THREAD PART1
In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.
Martin Luther King Jr.
ForumGarden Upgraded Software Update
NoOK i'll come back later then:-2
OK i'll come back later then:-2FOC THREAD PART1
In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.
Martin Luther King Jr.