Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
Is it acceptable, in your mind, to teach homosexuality as being "natural" to children?
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
I know that homosexuality isn't natural.
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
It's part of the reality of life teaching children that anyone who is different from them is an abomination belongs in the past along with the teaching of children that different races are inferior and can be enslaved, or that someone who has a different religion can be killed and it's OK with god.
Accepting that someone is homosexual and has a right to live their life as they choose doesn't make you one so why does it bother you?
Accepting that someone is homosexual and has a right to live their life as they choose doesn't make you one so why does it bother you?
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
gmc;1261981 wrote: It's part of the reality of life teaching children that anyone who is different from them is an abomination belongs in the past along with the teaching of children that different races are inferior and can be enslaved, or that someone who has a different religion can be killed and it's OK with god.
Accepting that someone is homosexual and has a right to live their life as they choose doesn't make you one so why does it bother you?
Doesn't bother me because I'm educated enough to know better
It's quite simply not natural
The rest is up for debate I suppose
Look, I don't agree with any sex being taught to children. Not gay or otherwise. The rest of that enclave would be a biased onset and when children are involved in such an atmosphere it sincerely upsets me.
Accepting that someone is homosexual and has a right to live their life as they choose doesn't make you one so why does it bother you?
Doesn't bother me because I'm educated enough to know better
It's quite simply not natural
The rest is up for debate I suppose
Look, I don't agree with any sex being taught to children. Not gay or otherwise. The rest of that enclave would be a biased onset and when children are involved in such an atmosphere it sincerely upsets me.
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
K.Snyder;1261982 wrote: Doesn't bother me because I'm educated enough to know better
It's quite simply not natural
The rest is up for debate I suppose
Look, I don't agree with any sex being taught to children. Not gay or otherwise. The rest of that enclave would be a biased onset and when children are involved in such an atmosphere it sincerely upsets me.
I can't understand the appeal but for some people it's natural. Live and let live, it is part of life and should be seen as such. I would have thought teaching children to be judgemental about such things is not a good idea in the long run. Nor is it a terribly christian attitude imo but as a non-christian I won't pursue that argument. I was actually brought up to view such things as aberration as an adult and getting to know one or two to me it's now a non issue. Being prepared to accept someone is homosexual or being seen with one doesn't somehow make me less of a man-any more than does doing the hoovering. I tend to think those that make the most fuss about it are trying to make up their minds about themselves-or fancy a shot to see what it's like.
The countries with the lowest unwanted pregnancy rates are those where sex education starts early. Getting pregnant when you should know better seems to be regarded as an uncool thing to do amongst teenagers and the start of sexual activity tends to be older as well. Ignorance is the problem not promiscuity per se. Knowledge is control-You don't get stupid notions like you don't get pregnant the first time or if you do it standing up being believed.
It's quite simply not natural
The rest is up for debate I suppose
Look, I don't agree with any sex being taught to children. Not gay or otherwise. The rest of that enclave would be a biased onset and when children are involved in such an atmosphere it sincerely upsets me.
I can't understand the appeal but for some people it's natural. Live and let live, it is part of life and should be seen as such. I would have thought teaching children to be judgemental about such things is not a good idea in the long run. Nor is it a terribly christian attitude imo but as a non-christian I won't pursue that argument. I was actually brought up to view such things as aberration as an adult and getting to know one or two to me it's now a non issue. Being prepared to accept someone is homosexual or being seen with one doesn't somehow make me less of a man-any more than does doing the hoovering. I tend to think those that make the most fuss about it are trying to make up their minds about themselves-or fancy a shot to see what it's like.
The countries with the lowest unwanted pregnancy rates are those where sex education starts early. Getting pregnant when you should know better seems to be regarded as an uncool thing to do amongst teenagers and the start of sexual activity tends to be older as well. Ignorance is the problem not promiscuity per se. Knowledge is control-You don't get stupid notions like you don't get pregnant the first time or if you do it standing up being believed.
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
gmc;1261987 wrote: I can't understand the appeal but for some people it's natural. Live and let live, it is part of life and should be seen as such. I would have thought teaching children to be judgemental about such things is not a good idea in the long run. Nor is it a terribly christian attitude imo but as a non-christian I won't pursue that argument. I was actually brought up to view such things as aberration as an adult and getting to know one or two to me it's now a non issue. Being prepared to accept someone is homosexual or being seen with one doesn't somehow make me less of a man-any more than does doing the hoovering. I tend to think those that make the most fuss about it are trying to make up their minds about themselves-or fancy a shot to see what it's like.
The countries with the lowest unwanted pregnancy rates are those where sex education starts early. Getting pregnant when you should know better seems to be regarded as an uncool thing to do amongst teenagers and the start of sexual activity tends to be older as well. Ignorance is the problem not promiscuity per se. Knowledge is control-You don't get stupid notions like you don't get pregnant the first time or if you do it standing up being believed.
I respect that people are entitled to their own opinion I just see homosexuality being taught to children that know no better is wrong in the same sense teaching a child to slap the butt of a girl is wrong without her consent.
Homosexuality in a nutshell is basically the act and nothing biological which signifies homosexuality as being no different than teaching a child to slap the rear of a girl without her approval. The lack of approval signifies a lack of purpose from which "you" get absolutely no biological response. Not one of love. Not what sex is intended for. What a child knows beyond the point of discovery is theirs to keep and should be theirs to seek.
The countries with the lowest unwanted pregnancy rates are those where sex education starts early. Getting pregnant when you should know better seems to be regarded as an uncool thing to do amongst teenagers and the start of sexual activity tends to be older as well. Ignorance is the problem not promiscuity per se. Knowledge is control-You don't get stupid notions like you don't get pregnant the first time or if you do it standing up being believed.
I respect that people are entitled to their own opinion I just see homosexuality being taught to children that know no better is wrong in the same sense teaching a child to slap the butt of a girl is wrong without her consent.
Homosexuality in a nutshell is basically the act and nothing biological which signifies homosexuality as being no different than teaching a child to slap the rear of a girl without her approval. The lack of approval signifies a lack of purpose from which "you" get absolutely no biological response. Not one of love. Not what sex is intended for. What a child knows beyond the point of discovery is theirs to keep and should be theirs to seek.
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
Oh good question.
Its widely accepted in society now so yes i suppose it should be included in sex education at school, it will be interesting to hear what the teachers think.
As for is it natural, its as natural as expecting to find one person within a thirty mile radius of yourself to marry and spend the rest of your life with.
Its widely accepted in society now so yes i suppose it should be included in sex education at school, it will be interesting to hear what the teachers think.
As for is it natural, its as natural as expecting to find one person within a thirty mile radius of yourself to marry and spend the rest of your life with.
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
buttercup;1261999 wrote: Oh good question.
Its widely accepted in society now so yes i suppose it should be included in sex education at school, it will be interesting to hear what the teachers think.
As for is it natural, its as natural as expecting to find one person within a thirty mile radius of yourself to marry and spend the rest of your life with.
My logic is that if one were homosexual why would they have an interest in offspring? Is that not a direct indication of their preference for mere physical love? Disgusting
Its widely accepted in society now so yes i suppose it should be included in sex education at school, it will be interesting to hear what the teachers think.
As for is it natural, its as natural as expecting to find one person within a thirty mile radius of yourself to marry and spend the rest of your life with.
My logic is that if one were homosexual why would they have an interest in offspring? Is that not a direct indication of their preference for mere physical love? Disgusting
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
My children were taught that people are people whether they have a different skin color, sexual preference, physical impairment, etc. It's up to God to judge; not me.
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
K.Snyder;1261962 wrote: Is it acceptable, in your mind, to teach homosexuality as being "natural" to children?How do you know that 'homosexuality is natural to children? *kidding*...Although thinking about that in that way is probably true as children have not been taught prejudice yet. Children really do know best sometime.
of course its natural, but some people want to decide whats natural rather than letting nature speak for itself.
Is it nature when a person is born with one arm or any other physical variation or mutation? I suppose one could make an extenuating argument that perhaps a persons lifestyle such as consuming certain drugs could be the reason the mutation occurring, but it still ends in nature taking its course.
Whats interesting from the viewpoint of an evolutionist, of which I'm one is: one may consider that since gay people don't reproduce with one another that the gene or genes that hold gayness(w) would become extinct. But then the question that arises is: where did the genes come from to begin with? ere they a mutation, or an adaptation, or decent with variation? Perhaps gayness is evolutions way of dealing with overpopulation or even prejudice. Okay, that last one is a streach, but hey, who knows!
No matter how you chose to view it, unless you're accusing millions of people of being complicit in the same lie for no other reason than to be ridiculed and in many cases, physically mistreated and denied certain rights, the idea that being a member of the gay community is in the vast majority of cases....natural.
Lets say its not and they are all liars. this is America and people have the right to choose to be who and what they want to be provided they do not impede in your rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Why are some proposing to deny gay's those same rights. Sounds anti-American to me.
of course its natural, but some people want to decide whats natural rather than letting nature speak for itself.
Is it nature when a person is born with one arm or any other physical variation or mutation? I suppose one could make an extenuating argument that perhaps a persons lifestyle such as consuming certain drugs could be the reason the mutation occurring, but it still ends in nature taking its course.
Whats interesting from the viewpoint of an evolutionist, of which I'm one is: one may consider that since gay people don't reproduce with one another that the gene or genes that hold gayness(w) would become extinct. But then the question that arises is: where did the genes come from to begin with? ere they a mutation, or an adaptation, or decent with variation? Perhaps gayness is evolutions way of dealing with overpopulation or even prejudice. Okay, that last one is a streach, but hey, who knows!
No matter how you chose to view it, unless you're accusing millions of people of being complicit in the same lie for no other reason than to be ridiculed and in many cases, physically mistreated and denied certain rights, the idea that being a member of the gay community is in the vast majority of cases....natural.
Lets say its not and they are all liars. this is America and people have the right to choose to be who and what they want to be provided they do not impede in your rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Why are some proposing to deny gay's those same rights. Sounds anti-American to me.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
K.Snyder;1262001 wrote: My logic is that if one were homosexual why would they have an interest in offspring? Is that not a direct indication of their preference for mere physical love? Disgusting
Many gay couples wish to have children, just like others who cannot concieve, they adopt.
I always find it a bit strange that men find the act of one man wanting in another man's bum completely different from wanting in a woman's bum. A bum's a bum.
Many gay couples wish to have children, just like others who cannot concieve, they adopt.
I always find it a bit strange that men find the act of one man wanting in another man's bum completely different from wanting in a woman's bum. A bum's a bum.
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
buttercup;1262014 wrote: Many gay couples wish to have children, just like others who cannot concieve, they adopt.
I always find it a bit strange that men find the act of one man wanting in another man's bum completely different from wanting in a woman's bum. A bum's a bum. I myself do not believe that any sex education should be taught to the very young and I'm not qualified to add what age It should start. From all the stories I have read about men trapped in womens bodies and women trapped in mens bodies, I do believe that If Homosexuality etc were taught to children, It may help them comprehend the confusion they feel. That has to be a good thing, I would hope.
I always find it a bit strange that men find the act of one man wanting in another man's bum completely different from wanting in a woman's bum. A bum's a bum. I myself do not believe that any sex education should be taught to the very young and I'm not qualified to add what age It should start. From all the stories I have read about men trapped in womens bodies and women trapped in mens bodies, I do believe that If Homosexuality etc were taught to children, It may help them comprehend the confusion they feel. That has to be a good thing, I would hope.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
K.Snyder;1262001 wrote: My logic is that if one were homosexual why would they have an interest in offspring? Is that not a direct indication of their preference for mere physical love? DisgustingWhats wrong with that? Are you saying that any relationship whether gay or straight that chooses not to procreate is immoral? What about men or wemen that can't?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
oscar;1262016 wrote: I myself do not believe that any sex education should be taught to the very young and I'm not qualified to add what age It should start. From all the stories I have read about men trapped in womens bodies and women trapped in mens bodies, I do believe that If Homosexuality etc were taught to children, It may help them comprehend the confusion they feel. That has to be a good thing, I would hope.Good point, Oscar, though I think the confusion is with the adults, not children. Its adults that talk about this issue, not children, unless of course they are repeating what the adults in their lives are espousing. But then again the adults are only repeating what their authorities have espoused. You know, whatever comes from the pulpit or the airwaves.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
I personally think this phobia comes from denial.
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
flopstock;1262026 wrote: I personally think this phobia comes from denial.
Homosexuality has been around since the dawning of time. I don't see how the bigots can pretend It doesn't happen by driving Homosexuals under ground. I thought we had got past the persecution stages of Christianity?
Homosexuality has been around since the dawning of time. I don't see how the bigots can pretend It doesn't happen by driving Homosexuals under ground. I thought we had got past the persecution stages of Christianity?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
flopstock;1262026 wrote: I personally think this phobia comes from denial.I agree. Denial is a creation of ours originating in morality and value judgments. In short, I think its guilt and shame repackaged.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
oscar;1262028 wrote: Homosexuality has been around since the dawning of time. I don't see how the bigots can pretend It doesn't happen by driving Homosexuals under ground. I thought we had got past the persecution stages of Christianity?
Oh No we haven't. Given half a chance it would come roaring back in with all it's fervour unabated. It's just our society and won't stand for it has got beyond it some Christians hanker for the good old days. Homosexuals are an easy target. for prejudice.
Oh No we haven't. Given half a chance it would come roaring back in with all it's fervour unabated. It's just our society and won't stand for it has got beyond it some Christians hanker for the good old days. Homosexuals are an easy target. for prejudice.
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
gmc;1262040 wrote: Oh No we haven't. Given half a chance it would come roaring back in with all it's fervour unabated. It's just our society and won't stand for it has got beyond it some Christians hanker for the good old days. Homosexuals are an easy target. for prejudice.Its interesting that religious groups have been able to convince themselves that being gay is on the same footing as civility. Thats a far, far reach in my view. Its easy and practical to avoid socializing if one is uncivil, but being gay cannot be isolated and denied exposure so easily, or at all for that matter.
But it all goes back to the notion that gay people choose to be deviant. And thats simply an outrageous claim better suited for the dark ages and completely disproved and generally accepted by anyone with any sense of self knowledge and self acceptance.
But it all goes back to the notion that gay people choose to be deviant. And thats simply an outrageous claim better suited for the dark ages and completely disproved and generally accepted by anyone with any sense of self knowledge and self acceptance.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
buttercup;1262014 wrote: Many gay couples wish to have children, just like others who cannot concieve, they adopt.
I always find it a bit strange that men find the act of one man wanting in another man's bum completely different from wanting in a woman's bum. A bum's a bum.
I want niether so don't give me the bum wrap. I think exits should be for leaving not coming.
I always find it a bit strange that men find the act of one man wanting in another man's bum completely different from wanting in a woman's bum. A bum's a bum.
I want niether so don't give me the bum wrap. I think exits should be for leaving not coming.
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
YZGI;1262063 wrote: I want niether so don't give me the bum wrap. I think exits should be for leaving not coming.You've never walked in the exit or out the enter door by either accident or just because the other was too crowded or not available? Not that I'm advocating any disorderly conduct or anything. I'm just asking...Sometimes a door is just a door, ya know what I mean?;)
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
Would you teach firearms marksmanship to school children? Self defense courses? Far more useful in todays upside down society than learning about gays.
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
Robert J;1262068 wrote: You've never walked in the exit or out the enter door by either accident or just because the other was too crowded or not available? Not that I'm advocating any disorderly conduct or anything. I'm just asking...Sometimes a door is just a door, ya know what I mean?;)
You use any door you chose, no problems here, I'm not a traffic cop. I never worried about others mode of travel. I just don't drive on some highways. I'm worried they have some bad drivers heading right at me.
You use any door you chose, no problems here, I'm not a traffic cop. I never worried about others mode of travel. I just don't drive on some highways. I'm worried they have some bad drivers heading right at me.
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
YZGI;1262072 wrote: You use any door you chose, no problems here, I'm not a traffic cop. I never worried about others mode of travel. I just don't drive on some highways. I'm worried they have some bad drivers heading right at me.Got it!
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
hoppy;1262070 wrote: Would you teach firearms marksmanship to school children? Self defense courses? Far more useful in todays upside down society than learning about gays.Interesting question, Hoppy. Sounds like a worthwhile topic for a new thread. I'll probably participate should you decide to begin.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
Society changes. Gays are mainstream now.
This was the old anthem for a rather similar bunch - it still resonates for those pressing the boundaries:Long, long, we in the past, Cowered in dread from the light of heaven.
Strong, strong, stand we at last, Fearless in faith and with sight new-given.
Strength with its beauty, Life with its duty, (Hear the voice, oh hear and obey!)
These, these, beckon us on, open your eyes to the blaze of day.
This was the old anthem for a rather similar bunch - it still resonates for those pressing the boundaries:Long, long, we in the past, Cowered in dread from the light of heaven.
Strong, strong, stand we at last, Fearless in faith and with sight new-given.
Strength with its beauty, Life with its duty, (Hear the voice, oh hear and obey!)
These, these, beckon us on, open your eyes to the blaze of day.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
K.Snyder;1261962 wrote: Is it acceptable, in your mind, to teach homosexuality as being "natural" to children?
That's just so gay! :yh_rotfl
That's just so gay! :yh_rotfl
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
YZGI;1262072 wrote: You use any door you chose, no problems here, I'm not a traffic cop. I never worried about others mode of travel. I just don't drive on some highways. I'm worried they have some bad drivers heading right at me.
Just worry about the bad drivers coming up fast behind you YZGY! :wah:
Just worry about the bad drivers coming up fast behind you YZGY! :wah:
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Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
YZGI;1262072 wrote: You use any door you chose, no problems here, I'm not a traffic cop. I never worried about others mode of travel. I just don't drive on some highways. I'm worried they have some bad drivers heading right at me.
:wah::wah::wah:
:wah::wah::wah:
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
G-man;1262092 wrote: Just worry about the bad drivers coming up fast behind you YZGY! :wah:
Hey I never dropped any soap.
Hey I never dropped any soap.
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
Robert J;1262009 wrote: How do you know that 'homosexuality is natural to children? *kidding*...Although thinking about that in that way is probably true as children have not been taught prejudice yet. Children really do know best sometime.
of course its natural, but some people want to decide whats natural rather than letting nature speak for itself.
Is it nature when a person is born with one arm or any other physical variation or mutation? I suppose one could make an extenuating argument that perhaps a persons lifestyle such as consuming certain drugs could be the reason the mutation occurring, but it still ends in nature taking its course.
Whats interesting from the viewpoint of an evolutionist, of which I'm one is: one may consider that since gay people don't reproduce with one another that the gene or genes that hold gayness(w) would become extinct. But then the question that arises is: where did the genes come from to begin with? ere they a mutation, or an adaptation, or decent with variation? Perhaps gayness is evolutions way of dealing with overpopulation or even prejudice. Okay, that last one is a streach, but hey, who knows!
No matter how you chose to view it, unless you're accusing millions of people of being complicit in the same lie for no other reason than to be ridiculed and in many cases, physically mistreated and denied certain rights, the idea that being a member of the gay community is in the vast majority of cases....natural.
Lets say its not and they are all liars. this is America and people have the right to choose to be who and what they want to be provided they do not impede in your rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Why are some proposing to deny gay's those same rights. Sounds anti-American to me.
You're missing the point Robert. I'm not against gay people. Gay people will be gay. I'm against teaching kids that homosexuality is natural. Nature defines homosexuality to not be natural. Evolution is defined by reproduction. There is no gay gene. Homosexuality is a preference nothing less.
of course its natural, but some people want to decide whats natural rather than letting nature speak for itself.
Is it nature when a person is born with one arm or any other physical variation or mutation? I suppose one could make an extenuating argument that perhaps a persons lifestyle such as consuming certain drugs could be the reason the mutation occurring, but it still ends in nature taking its course.
Whats interesting from the viewpoint of an evolutionist, of which I'm one is: one may consider that since gay people don't reproduce with one another that the gene or genes that hold gayness(w) would become extinct. But then the question that arises is: where did the genes come from to begin with? ere they a mutation, or an adaptation, or decent with variation? Perhaps gayness is evolutions way of dealing with overpopulation or even prejudice. Okay, that last one is a streach, but hey, who knows!
No matter how you chose to view it, unless you're accusing millions of people of being complicit in the same lie for no other reason than to be ridiculed and in many cases, physically mistreated and denied certain rights, the idea that being a member of the gay community is in the vast majority of cases....natural.
Lets say its not and they are all liars. this is America and people have the right to choose to be who and what they want to be provided they do not impede in your rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Why are some proposing to deny gay's those same rights. Sounds anti-American to me.
You're missing the point Robert. I'm not against gay people. Gay people will be gay. I'm against teaching kids that homosexuality is natural. Nature defines homosexuality to not be natural. Evolution is defined by reproduction. There is no gay gene. Homosexuality is a preference nothing less.
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
buttercup;1262014 wrote: Many gay couples wish to have children, just like others who cannot concieve, they adopt.
I always find it a bit strange that men find the act of one man wanting in another man's bum completely different from wanting in a woman's bum. A bum's a bum.
Yes but what you fail to realize, me BEAUTIFUL buttercup, is that I would never try and teach a child that sexual intercourse involving a womans bum is natural. In fact, I wouldn't teach them anything. They will learn what they feel. I knew what sex was at an early age. I knew having sex could potentially get a girl pregnant, and I knew I never wished to have any STD's.
I always find it a bit strange that men find the act of one man wanting in another man's bum completely different from wanting in a woman's bum. A bum's a bum.
Yes but what you fail to realize, me BEAUTIFUL buttercup, is that I would never try and teach a child that sexual intercourse involving a womans bum is natural. In fact, I wouldn't teach them anything. They will learn what they feel. I knew what sex was at an early age. I knew having sex could potentially get a girl pregnant, and I knew I never wished to have any STD's.
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
Robert J;1262018 wrote: Whats wrong with that? Are you saying that any relationship whether gay or straight that chooses not to procreate is immoral? What about men or wemen that can't?
Very good. This is where we distinguish personal preference from a physical medical condition.
Any gay relationship from whom both, some, or all peoples involved that wish to adopt define themselves as hypocritical and their entire ideology is centered around only the physical aspect of love. It's logically true.
Very good. This is where we distinguish personal preference from a physical medical condition.
Any gay relationship from whom both, some, or all peoples involved that wish to adopt define themselves as hypocritical and their entire ideology is centered around only the physical aspect of love. It's logically true.
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
Robert J;1262019 wrote: Good point, Oscar, though I think the confusion is with the adults, not children. Its adults that talk about this issue, not children, unless of course they are repeating what the adults in their lives are espousing. But then again the adults are only repeating what their authorities have espoused. You know, whatever comes from the pulpit or the airwaves.
Because children won't understand what you wish to teach them and already know what you thought they hadn't.
Because children won't understand what you wish to teach them and already know what you thought they hadn't.
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
gmc;1262040 wrote: Oh No we haven't. Given half a chance it would come roaring back in with all it's fervour unabated. It's just our society and won't stand for it has got beyond it some Christians hanker for the good old days. Homosexuals are an easy target. for prejudice.
Robert J;1262050 wrote: Its interesting that religious groups have been able to convince themselves that being gay is on the same footing as civility. Thats a far, far reach in my view. Its easy and practical to avoid socializing if one is uncivil, but being gay cannot be isolated and denied exposure so easily, or at all for that matter.
But it all goes back to the notion that gay people choose to be deviant. And thats simply an outrageous claim better suited for the dark ages and completely disproved and generally accepted by anyone with any sense of self knowledge and self acceptance.
If everyone were gay our species would become extinct. What's not logically true about that?
Not to mention a horrifying insult to females!
There, there, ladies!!!!!!!!!,..I got yo back!!!!!!!! :wah:
:yh_winks!!!!!!!
:yh_kisses!!!!!!!
Robert J;1262050 wrote: Its interesting that religious groups have been able to convince themselves that being gay is on the same footing as civility. Thats a far, far reach in my view. Its easy and practical to avoid socializing if one is uncivil, but being gay cannot be isolated and denied exposure so easily, or at all for that matter.
But it all goes back to the notion that gay people choose to be deviant. And thats simply an outrageous claim better suited for the dark ages and completely disproved and generally accepted by anyone with any sense of self knowledge and self acceptance.
If everyone were gay our species would become extinct. What's not logically true about that?
Not to mention a horrifying insult to females!
There, there, ladies!!!!!!!!!,..I got yo back!!!!!!!! :wah:
:yh_winks!!!!!!!
:yh_kisses!!!!!!!
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
K.Snyder;1262194 wrote: You're missing the point Robert. I'm not against gay people. Gay people will be gay. I'm against teaching kids that homosexuality is natural. Nature defines homosexuality to not be natural. Evolution is defined by reproduction. There is no gay gene. Homosexuality is a preference nothing less.Evolution is the study or observation of the relationship of a an organism and its environment. Anything that takes place in nature is natural. There is no such truth to the notion that evolution must involve reproduction. the very fact that there are species that do not reproduce is evidence of that. A species may become extinct due to not reproducing, but the fact that a non reproducing individual exists disproves that idea.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
Perhaps the question should be rephrased to is it acceptable to teach children that prejudice and dislike of another person based on their lifestyle/and/or sexual proclivities is perfectly OK?
Once upon a time it was taught that some races are inferior to others and therefore it was acceptable to keep them as slaves. Those arguing this also used the same authority with which their descendants now decry homosexuality.
I respect that people are entitled to their own opinion I just see homosexuality being taught to children that know no better is wrong in the same sense teaching a child to slap the butt of a girl is wrong without her consent.
Mind you they also used to teach that women were inferior and belonged to the males in their family to dispose of as they wished. Her consent or otherwise was immaterial and such an act would have been seen as an offence against the one who owned her. The question would be asked did she encourage the slap on the butt, if she did she would be punished if not the male would be entitled top take action to redress the insult to him. Even in this day and age the in rape cases the assumption is always that the girl was asking for it by being sexually attractive rather than the attacker had no self control.
Once upon a time it was taught that some races are inferior to others and therefore it was acceptable to keep them as slaves. Those arguing this also used the same authority with which their descendants now decry homosexuality.
I respect that people are entitled to their own opinion I just see homosexuality being taught to children that know no better is wrong in the same sense teaching a child to slap the butt of a girl is wrong without her consent.
Mind you they also used to teach that women were inferior and belonged to the males in their family to dispose of as they wished. Her consent or otherwise was immaterial and such an act would have been seen as an offence against the one who owned her. The question would be asked did she encourage the slap on the butt, if she did she would be punished if not the male would be entitled top take action to redress the insult to him. Even in this day and age the in rape cases the assumption is always that the girl was asking for it by being sexually attractive rather than the attacker had no self control.
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
Robert J;1262199 wrote: Evolution is the study or observation of the relationship of a an organism and its environment. Anything that takes place in nature is natural. There is no such truth to the notion that evolution must involve reproduction. the very fact that there are species that do not reproduce is evidence of that. A species may become extinct due to not reproducing, but the fact that a non reproducing individual exists disproves that idea.
Natural selection is the process by which heritable traits that make it more likely for an organism to survive and successfully reproduce become more common in a population over successive generations. It is a key mechanism of evolution.
The natural genetic variation within a population of organisms means that some individuals will survive and reproduce more successfully than others in their current environment. For example, the peppered moth exists in both light and dark colors in the United Kingdom, but during the industrial revolution many of the trees on which the moths rested became blackened by soot, giving the dark-colored moths an advantage in hiding from predators. This gave dark-colored moths a better chance of surviving to produce dark-colored offspring, and in just a few generations the majority of the moths were dark. Factors which affect reproductive success are also important, an issue which Charles Darwin developed in his ideas on sexual selection.
Natural selection acts on the phenotype, or the observable characteristics of an organism, but the genetic (heritable) basis of any phenotype which gives a reproductive advantage will become more common in a population (see allele frequency). Over time, this process can result in adaptations that specialize organisms for particular ecological niches and may eventually result in the emergence of new species. In other words, natural selection is an important process (though not the only process) by which evolution takes place within a population of organisms.
Natural selection is one of the cornerstones of modern biology. The term was introduced by Darwin in his groundbreaking 1859 book On the Origin of Species, in which natural selection was described by analogy to artificial selection, a process by which animals and plants with traits considered desirable by human breeders are systematically favored for reproduction. The concept of natural selection was originally developed in the absence of a valid theory of heredity; at the time of Darwin's writing, nothing was known of modern genetics. The union of traditional Darwinian evolution with subsequent discoveries in classical and molecular genetics is termed the modern evolutionary synthesis. Natural selection remains the primary explanation for adaptive evolution. Natural selection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Natural selection is the process by which heritable traits that make it more likely for an organism to survive and successfully reproduce become more common in a population over successive generations. It is a key mechanism of evolution.
The natural genetic variation within a population of organisms means that some individuals will survive and reproduce more successfully than others in their current environment. For example, the peppered moth exists in both light and dark colors in the United Kingdom, but during the industrial revolution many of the trees on which the moths rested became blackened by soot, giving the dark-colored moths an advantage in hiding from predators. This gave dark-colored moths a better chance of surviving to produce dark-colored offspring, and in just a few generations the majority of the moths were dark. Factors which affect reproductive success are also important, an issue which Charles Darwin developed in his ideas on sexual selection.
Natural selection acts on the phenotype, or the observable characteristics of an organism, but the genetic (heritable) basis of any phenotype which gives a reproductive advantage will become more common in a population (see allele frequency). Over time, this process can result in adaptations that specialize organisms for particular ecological niches and may eventually result in the emergence of new species. In other words, natural selection is an important process (though not the only process) by which evolution takes place within a population of organisms.
Natural selection is one of the cornerstones of modern biology. The term was introduced by Darwin in his groundbreaking 1859 book On the Origin of Species, in which natural selection was described by analogy to artificial selection, a process by which animals and plants with traits considered desirable by human breeders are systematically favored for reproduction. The concept of natural selection was originally developed in the absence of a valid theory of heredity; at the time of Darwin's writing, nothing was known of modern genetics. The union of traditional Darwinian evolution with subsequent discoveries in classical and molecular genetics is termed the modern evolutionary synthesis. Natural selection remains the primary explanation for adaptive evolution. Natural selection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
gmc;1262201 wrote: Perhaps the question should be rephrased to
Once upon a time it was taught that some races are inferior to others and therefore it was acceptable to keep them as slaves. Those arguing this also used the same authority with which their descendants now decry homosexuality.
Mind you they also used to teach that women were inferior and belonged to the males in their family to dispose of as they wished. Her consent or otherwise was immaterial and such an act would have been seen as an offence against the one who owned her. The question would be asked did she encourage the slap on the butt, if she did she would be punished if not the male would be entitled top take action to redress the insult to him. Even in this day and age the in rape cases the assumption is always that the girl was asking for it by being sexually attractive rather than the attacker had no self control.
Anyone that physically attacks another human being without due provocation is wrong would you not agree?
Once upon a time it was taught that some races are inferior to others and therefore it was acceptable to keep them as slaves. Those arguing this also used the same authority with which their descendants now decry homosexuality.
Mind you they also used to teach that women were inferior and belonged to the males in their family to dispose of as they wished. Her consent or otherwise was immaterial and such an act would have been seen as an offence against the one who owned her. The question would be asked did she encourage the slap on the butt, if she did she would be punished if not the male would be entitled top take action to redress the insult to him. Even in this day and age the in rape cases the assumption is always that the girl was asking for it by being sexually attractive rather than the attacker had no self control.
Anyone that physically attacks another human being without due provocation is wrong would you not agree?
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
K.Snyder;1262202 wrote: Natural selection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaI'm afraid the points have become skewed somehow. You seem to be making the argument that evolution only applies to natural selection as a verb. Hence, you seem to be saying that that if a person or thing cannot reproduce it is not a product of evolution. Do you see how incorrect that looks. Perhaps its how I'm seeing this. I need to step away from this thread and clear my head.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
Robert J;1262206 wrote: I'm afraid the points have become skewed somehow. You seem to be making the argument that evolution only applies to natural selection as a verb. Hence, you seem to be saying that that if a person or thing cannot reproduce it is not a product of evolution. Do you see how incorrect that looks. Perhaps its how I'm seeing this. I need to step away from this thread and clear my head.
What I've done was proved that the act of sex relative to reproduction is natural.
What I've done was proved that the act of sex relative to reproduction is natural.
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
K.Snyder;1262195 wrote: Yes but what you fail to realize, me BEAUTIFUL buttercup, is that I would never try and teach a child that sexual intercourse involving a womans bum is natural. In fact, I wouldn't teach them anything. They will learn what they feel. I knew what sex was at an early age. I knew having sex could potentially get a girl pregnant, and I knew I never wished to have any STD's.
I was raised mostly by my grandparents, they did not believe in talking about sex to children or anybody else come to think of it :wah:
Thankfully schools have sex education for kids like me and i see no problem with them discussing homosexuality as part of that education, i don't think there is any need for them to be specific about exactly what goes on just to point out to kids that there are many people who feel its 'normal' for 'them' to have a same sex partner.
I was raised mostly by my grandparents, they did not believe in talking about sex to children or anybody else come to think of it :wah:
Thankfully schools have sex education for kids like me and i see no problem with them discussing homosexuality as part of that education, i don't think there is any need for them to be specific about exactly what goes on just to point out to kids that there are many people who feel its 'normal' for 'them' to have a same sex partner.
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
K.Snyder;1262209 wrote: What I've done was proved that the act of sex relative to reproduction is natural.
Yes thats true but not everybody having sex wants to reproduce.
Yes thats true but not everybody having sex wants to reproduce.
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
buttercup;1262243 wrote: I was raised mostly by my grandparents, they did not believe in talking about sex to children or anybody else come to think of it :wah:Are you calling me a "prude"! :yh_rotfl :yh_wink :yh_kiss
buttercup;1262243 wrote:
Thankfully schools have sex education for kids like me and i see no problem with them discussing homosexuality as part of that education, i don't think there is any need for them to be specific about exactly what goes on just to point out to kids that there are many people who feel its 'normal' for 'them' to have a same sex partner. At what age would you consider it to be acceptable to tell a child it's "normal" or "natural" to have a same sex partner? 3? 6? 10? 18? 35!?
buttercup;1262243 wrote:
Thankfully schools have sex education for kids like me and i see no problem with them discussing homosexuality as part of that education, i don't think there is any need for them to be specific about exactly what goes on just to point out to kids that there are many people who feel its 'normal' for 'them' to have a same sex partner. At what age would you consider it to be acceptable to tell a child it's "normal" or "natural" to have a same sex partner? 3? 6? 10? 18? 35!?
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
K.Snyder;1262209 wrote: What I've done was proved that the act of sex relative to reproduction is natural.Which everyone already knows, and incidentally, is way off from where you started. Check out the title of the thread and try drawing straight line from it to this quote..It can't be done..
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
Robert J;1262246 wrote: Which everyone already knows, and incidentally, is way off from where you started. Check out the title of the thread and try drawing straight line from it to this quote..It can't be done..
You're the one that said "There is no such truth to the notion that evolution must involve reproduction." From which is the most horribly inaccurate statement I've ever read in my life(I'm not trying to be malicious but dude reread your statement).
"There is no such truth to the notion that evolution must involve reproduction."?
Dude,..
I merely presented the definition of natural selection blatantly disproving your assertion. You're the one that brought it up.
The rest is you either wishing to see the human species go extinct or not minding based off of your testimony of "There is no such truth to the notion that evolution must involve reproduction.", now which is it?
You're the one that said "There is no such truth to the notion that evolution must involve reproduction." From which is the most horribly inaccurate statement I've ever read in my life(I'm not trying to be malicious but dude reread your statement).
"There is no such truth to the notion that evolution must involve reproduction."?
Dude,..
I merely presented the definition of natural selection blatantly disproving your assertion. You're the one that brought it up.
The rest is you either wishing to see the human species go extinct or not minding based off of your testimony of "There is no such truth to the notion that evolution must involve reproduction.", now which is it?
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
OK, K, before you set me on fire, let me say that I agree with you and that, while I don't have any problem with homosexuality, it's pretty obvious that "Nature," meaning the two-sex system of our evolution, is the "natural way."
In a purely procreational sense.
That said, there is new research that suggests that homosexuality may be genetic or hormonal linked. It's the old "Why do men have nipples?" argument where a fetus is neither sex for a while, then suddenly begins to choose one over the other. Could this process get messed up once in a while? could homosexuality be classifed as a "birth defect?" that might explain why there are homosexual sheep, mice, horses, cats, and dogs. I actually read that scientists believe that there might be exactly the same percentage of homosexuality in ALL mammals, from rats to dolphins. If it was a byproduct of something to do with mammalian reproduction, that would explain it, wouldn't it?
Check this:
New Evidence for
Biological Influence on Gender
A study just published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (on April 16, 2002) has added to a growing body of research which suggests that environmental toxins have a demasculinizing effect on some developing organisms.
The latest study (1) was conducted by a specialist in the hormone systems of amphibians at UC Berkeley. He found that male tadpoles exposed to a common weed killer called atrazine tended to develop into demasculinized adult frogs. Some of the tadpoles became hermaphrodites, developing both male and female sex organs.
Hayes found that atrazine disrupted the endocrine systems of frogs by converting the male hormone testosterone into the female hormone estrogen.
Atrazine is the most commonly used herbicide in the U.S., and it has been detected in ground water consumed by humans, although its effect on humans at varying levels of exposure has not yet been demonstrated.
The latest study adds to earlier evidence suggesting that environmental pollutants may impair normal gender development. If these findings are replicated in the small but growing body of studies on humans, then a boy with a brain that had been feminized in utero by an environmental toxin such as atrazine would be at particular risk to establish a weak masculine gender identity and thus to develop homosexual attractions in adulthood.
In a purely procreational sense.
That said, there is new research that suggests that homosexuality may be genetic or hormonal linked. It's the old "Why do men have nipples?" argument where a fetus is neither sex for a while, then suddenly begins to choose one over the other. Could this process get messed up once in a while? could homosexuality be classifed as a "birth defect?" that might explain why there are homosexual sheep, mice, horses, cats, and dogs. I actually read that scientists believe that there might be exactly the same percentage of homosexuality in ALL mammals, from rats to dolphins. If it was a byproduct of something to do with mammalian reproduction, that would explain it, wouldn't it?
Check this:
New Evidence for
Biological Influence on Gender
A study just published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (on April 16, 2002) has added to a growing body of research which suggests that environmental toxins have a demasculinizing effect on some developing organisms.
The latest study (1) was conducted by a specialist in the hormone systems of amphibians at UC Berkeley. He found that male tadpoles exposed to a common weed killer called atrazine tended to develop into demasculinized adult frogs. Some of the tadpoles became hermaphrodites, developing both male and female sex organs.
Hayes found that atrazine disrupted the endocrine systems of frogs by converting the male hormone testosterone into the female hormone estrogen.
Atrazine is the most commonly used herbicide in the U.S., and it has been detected in ground water consumed by humans, although its effect on humans at varying levels of exposure has not yet been demonstrated.
The latest study adds to earlier evidence suggesting that environmental pollutants may impair normal gender development. If these findings are replicated in the small but growing body of studies on humans, then a boy with a brain that had been feminized in utero by an environmental toxin such as atrazine would be at particular risk to establish a weak masculine gender identity and thus to develop homosexual attractions in adulthood.
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
K.Snyder;1262245 wrote: Are you calling me a "prude"! :yh_rotfl :yh_wink :yh_kiss
At what age would you consider it to be acceptable to tell a child it's "normal" or "natural" to have a same sex partner? 3? 6? 10? 18? 35!?
I think school telling them its normal for 'SOME' people to have a same sex partner during sex education would be ok somewhere between 7 and 10, is that not the age most gay people recognise they are not like everybody else?
Prude - you've no idea :wah:
My granny made me wear a vest and pants with a nightie over the top made of brushed cotton that came right up to my chin and way down past my wrists and feet, in those days we had no duvets, it was big warm wooly blankets, i poured of sweat every night. To this day no matter how cold it is outside i cannot sleep without the window open, my poor husband is wrapped up in the duvet like a swiss roll unable to understand why i need to feel the 'cool' breeze :wah:
At what age would you consider it to be acceptable to tell a child it's "normal" or "natural" to have a same sex partner? 3? 6? 10? 18? 35!?
I think school telling them its normal for 'SOME' people to have a same sex partner during sex education would be ok somewhere between 7 and 10, is that not the age most gay people recognise they are not like everybody else?
Prude - you've no idea :wah:
My granny made me wear a vest and pants with a nightie over the top made of brushed cotton that came right up to my chin and way down past my wrists and feet, in those days we had no duvets, it was big warm wooly blankets, i poured of sweat every night. To this day no matter how cold it is outside i cannot sleep without the window open, my poor husband is wrapped up in the duvet like a swiss roll unable to understand why i need to feel the 'cool' breeze :wah:
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
buttercup;1262267 wrote: I think school telling them its normal for 'SOME' people to have a same sex partner during sex education would be ok somewhere between 7 and 10, is that not the age most gay people recognise they are not like everybody else?
buttercup;1262267 wrote:
Prude - you've no idea :wah:
My granny made me wear a vest and pants with a nightie over the top made of brushed cotton that came right up to my chin and way down past my wrists and feet, in those days we had no duvets, it was big warm wooly blankets, i poured of sweat every night. To this day no matter how cold it is outside i cannot sleep without the window open, my poor husband is wrapped up in the duvet like a swiss roll unable to understand why i need to feel the 'cool' breeze :wah:
Oh right!
I think you described it rather appropriately enough!
buttercup;1262267 wrote:
Prude - you've no idea :wah:
My granny made me wear a vest and pants with a nightie over the top made of brushed cotton that came right up to my chin and way down past my wrists and feet, in those days we had no duvets, it was big warm wooly blankets, i poured of sweat every night. To this day no matter how cold it is outside i cannot sleep without the window open, my poor husband is wrapped up in the duvet like a swiss roll unable to understand why i need to feel the 'cool' breeze :wah:
Oh right!
I think you described it rather appropriately enough!
Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?
I use to think it mattered that children know what is right or wrong in "Homosexuality" vs "Man & a Women" there is no right or wrong as I have come to learn in my 62 years on this planet. It is what it is children are far more accepting then we are. They also know way more than we give them credit for in this area. I have learned from them its all good as long as the parties love and care for each other what could be more natural than that. Who am I to judge anyone..!!
Live and let live and most of us would be happier doing so.
Live and let live and most of us would be happier doing so.
ALOHA!!
MOTTO TO LIVE BY:
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, champagne in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming.
WOO HOO!!, what a ride!!!"
MOTTO TO LIVE BY:
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, champagne in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming.
WOO HOO!!, what a ride!!!"