Hello all!
I notice that many start discussion with that Islam fights ... Islam fights ... Islam fights ... Hey all hold on please!
This a thing that you misunderstood.
Muslims never fought for money or for interest!!!
Well, can we read together Luke 19:
26: for I say to you, that to every one having shall be given, and from him not having, also what he hath shall be taken from him
27: but those my enemies, who did not wish me to reign over them, bring hither and slay before me
My question: why didn't Jesus forgive his enemies? Isn't he peaceful? You want more?
Matthew 10:
34: Ye may not suppose that I came to put peace on the earth; I did not come to put peace, but a sword
35: for I came to set a man at variance against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law
36: and the enemies of a man are those of his household
????????????
No comment.
But concerning that Islam is violence and violence is Islam!!! Can anyone of you please tell me then: why are you still alive if we are violent? Why is Christians alive there in Arabic and Muslim countries?????
Simply, because of misunderstanding. Muslims fought because they were killed. The were sent away from there home. Muslims fought because the were fought. Fighting is not our logo!!! Our logo is: La ilaha illah Allah .. Muhammad Rasool Allah. "Means: Bearing witness there is no God except Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger". Islam never spread through swords, and the evidence is that it is the fastest growing religion today, yet no swords!!!
More of discussions come soon inshallah.
Is Jesus peaceful?
Is Jesus peaceful?
Irrelevant argument, no religions are peaceful.
All, even Islam are born in baths of blood, look at the history of Sunni & Shia’s.
The very fact that the birth of Christianity came from the seeds of the most horrifying killing of an innocent man only shows this further.
Religious fundamentalism is intolerant, this always leads to violence.
Religion is an excuse for people to identify differences between them and provide justifications to kill in the name of their God. It justifies killing.
Please do not confuse this with faith, that is a very different thing, I am a faithful person, and spiritual, but I am not religous.
All, even Islam are born in baths of blood, look at the history of Sunni & Shia’s.
The very fact that the birth of Christianity came from the seeds of the most horrifying killing of an innocent man only shows this further.
Religious fundamentalism is intolerant, this always leads to violence.
Religion is an excuse for people to identify differences between them and provide justifications to kill in the name of their God. It justifies killing.
Please do not confuse this with faith, that is a very different thing, I am a faithful person, and spiritual, but I am not religous.
Is Jesus peaceful?
mikeinie;1257792 wrote: Irrelevant argument, no religions are peaceful.
All, even Islam are born in baths of blood, look at the history of Sunni & Shia’s.
The very fact that the birth of Christianity came from the seeds of the most horrifying killing of an innocent man only shows this further.
Religious fundamentalism is intolerant, this always leads to violence.
Religion is an excuse for people to identify differences between them and provide justifications to kill in the name of their God. It justifies killing.
Please do not confuse this with faith, that is a very different thing, I am a faithful person, and spiritual, but I am not religous.
Ooh!! That's not true my dear.
Islam was not born in a bath of blood.
Assume A and B are two different groups:
A fought B -- there is bath of blood.
B fought A -- there is bath of blood.
Can you tell me from these two little statements: who is the violent? Is it A or B?
Similarly Islam, Muslims fought those who fought Muslims. Of course if someone kills my family, I will kill him by every other means, and that's my right, although forgiving him is better to Allah. But Allah, knew our nature and that we cannot live with who kills us, so he allowed us to kill who kills us, and to forgive whenever possible unless there is sending out form home, here we have to fight until we restore our home.
Religion does not confuse with faith. If your religion is different from your faith, know that you are neither faithful nor religious.
A one faithful should, by definition, be religious and vice versa.
Islam is the religion of peace, and never fought for bad. I have many Christian friends, yet not violent with them. We are very nice friends and I never showed violent acts against them. Can you tell me if Islam was born in baths of blood, why are then Christians alive there? Because actually Islam is a religion of peace, and although there is no swords today, yet, Islam is the fastest growing religion, a matter that I am proud of.
All, even Islam are born in baths of blood, look at the history of Sunni & Shia’s.
The very fact that the birth of Christianity came from the seeds of the most horrifying killing of an innocent man only shows this further.
Religious fundamentalism is intolerant, this always leads to violence.
Religion is an excuse for people to identify differences between them and provide justifications to kill in the name of their God. It justifies killing.
Please do not confuse this with faith, that is a very different thing, I am a faithful person, and spiritual, but I am not religous.
Ooh!! That's not true my dear.
Islam was not born in a bath of blood.
Assume A and B are two different groups:
A fought B -- there is bath of blood.
B fought A -- there is bath of blood.
Can you tell me from these two little statements: who is the violent? Is it A or B?
Similarly Islam, Muslims fought those who fought Muslims. Of course if someone kills my family, I will kill him by every other means, and that's my right, although forgiving him is better to Allah. But Allah, knew our nature and that we cannot live with who kills us, so he allowed us to kill who kills us, and to forgive whenever possible unless there is sending out form home, here we have to fight until we restore our home.
Religion does not confuse with faith. If your religion is different from your faith, know that you are neither faithful nor religious.
A one faithful should, by definition, be religious and vice versa.
Islam is the religion of peace, and never fought for bad. I have many Christian friends, yet not violent with them. We are very nice friends and I never showed violent acts against them. Can you tell me if Islam was born in baths of blood, why are then Christians alive there? Because actually Islam is a religion of peace, and although there is no swords today, yet, Islam is the fastest growing religion, a matter that I am proud of.
Is Jesus peaceful?
tweetatoo;1257795 wrote: Ooh!! That's not true my dear.
Islam was not born in a bath of blood.
Assume A and B are two different groups:
A fought B -- there is bath of blood.
B fought A -- there is bath of blood.
Can you tell me from these two little statements: who is the violent? Is it A or B?
Similarly Islam, Muslims fought those who fought Muslims. Of course if someone kills my family, I will kill him by every other means, and that's my right, although forgiving him is better to Allah. But Allah, knew our nature and that we cannot live with who kills us, so he allowed us to kill who kills us, and to forgive whenever possible unless there is sending out form home, here we have to fight until we restore our home.
Religion does not confuse with faith. If your religion is different from your faith, know that you are neither faithful nor religious.
A one faithful should, by definition, be religious and vice versa.
Islam is the religion of peace, and never fought for bad. I have many Christian friends, yet not violent with them. We are very nice friends and I never showed violent acts against them. Can you tell me if Islam was born in baths of blood, why are then Christians alive there? Because actually Islam is a religion of peace, and although there is no swords today, yet, Islam is the fastest growing religion, a matter that I am proud of.
But that is my point¦. No religion ever believed that it fought for bad. They all believe that they fight for what is just, and right, and the will of God. That is why it is fundamentally violent.
oh, Faith and Religion are very different things
Faith is God made, Religion is Man made.
Islam was not born in a bath of blood.
Assume A and B are two different groups:
A fought B -- there is bath of blood.
B fought A -- there is bath of blood.
Can you tell me from these two little statements: who is the violent? Is it A or B?
Similarly Islam, Muslims fought those who fought Muslims. Of course if someone kills my family, I will kill him by every other means, and that's my right, although forgiving him is better to Allah. But Allah, knew our nature and that we cannot live with who kills us, so he allowed us to kill who kills us, and to forgive whenever possible unless there is sending out form home, here we have to fight until we restore our home.
Religion does not confuse with faith. If your religion is different from your faith, know that you are neither faithful nor religious.
A one faithful should, by definition, be religious and vice versa.
Islam is the religion of peace, and never fought for bad. I have many Christian friends, yet not violent with them. We are very nice friends and I never showed violent acts against them. Can you tell me if Islam was born in baths of blood, why are then Christians alive there? Because actually Islam is a religion of peace, and although there is no swords today, yet, Islam is the fastest growing religion, a matter that I am proud of.
But that is my point¦. No religion ever believed that it fought for bad. They all believe that they fight for what is just, and right, and the will of God. That is why it is fundamentally violent.
oh, Faith and Religion are very different things
Faith is God made, Religion is Man made.
Is Jesus peaceful?
Violence and intolerance is inherent in any monotheistic religion. There are several things they fight about.
What is the right way to worship the one god.
Which is the right god.
- and that is something that completely bamboozles me how can a muslim or a christian be worshipping different gods since they both believe there is only one. Having agreed there is only one why does it matter how you worship? Is it really worthwhile killing each other over whether jesus was the son of god or a prophet?
Apart from being intolerant of those who share the belieef in the one god they save their ire for those who don't happen to believe in the one god or indeed any god at all.
Worship as you wish just stop going to war over your religion.
Is Jesus peaceful?
He might have been but his followers seem to prefer the old testament and the vindictive bastard of a god depicted therein. Forget love thy neighbour-burn him as a heretic instead.
Is Jesus any more culpable for the actions of his followers than the prophet is for his?
posted by meikinie
Faith and Religion are very different things
sadly You can't have one without then other and the religious with slaughter the faithful for the good of their souls.
posted by tweetatoo
Islam is the fastest growing religion, a matter that I am proud of.
One of the most worrying trends today is the resurgence of religion and religious wars it's a blight on humanity that belongs in the past
What is the right way to worship the one god.
Which is the right god.
- and that is something that completely bamboozles me how can a muslim or a christian be worshipping different gods since they both believe there is only one. Having agreed there is only one why does it matter how you worship? Is it really worthwhile killing each other over whether jesus was the son of god or a prophet?
Apart from being intolerant of those who share the belieef in the one god they save their ire for those who don't happen to believe in the one god or indeed any god at all.
Worship as you wish just stop going to war over your religion.
Is Jesus peaceful?
He might have been but his followers seem to prefer the old testament and the vindictive bastard of a god depicted therein. Forget love thy neighbour-burn him as a heretic instead.
Is Jesus any more culpable for the actions of his followers than the prophet is for his?
posted by meikinie
Faith and Religion are very different things
sadly You can't have one without then other and the religious with slaughter the faithful for the good of their souls.
posted by tweetatoo
Islam is the fastest growing religion, a matter that I am proud of.
One of the most worrying trends today is the resurgence of religion and religious wars it's a blight on humanity that belongs in the past
Is Jesus peaceful?
mikeinie;1257798 wrote: But that is my point¦. No religion ever believed that it fought for bad. They all believe that they fight for what is just, and right, and the will of God. That is why it is fundamentally violent.
oh, Faith and Religion are very different things
Faith is God made, Religion is Man made.
I didn't mean what you understood. I meant, Islam fought for good. People were living in bad, Islam rescued them and they lived in good. People were killed and were suffering, and Islam came to rescue them.
If Islam spread was by swords, well, swords disappeared, yet, Islamic countries are Islamic, and in fact Islam is greatly increasing in number in the world. Then, if Islam is violent, why I am not violent?? I am Muslim and proud to be Muslim. There is nothing called good Muslim and bad Muslim. There is nothing called Sunnah and Shia. Muslims were Muslims. Prophet PBUH was neither sunni nor shia. Shia is a group that drew bad pic about Islam and Muslims.
Religion is man made except the religion of the God, which is god's made. I have a proof that Allah name was used even before the prophet Muhammad PBUH by jews and christians, and this name is the god's name.
Fix it: Islamic faith is God made, Islamic religion is God made.
Almost all other religions today are man made for both faith and religion.
Why are you alive if Islam is violent?? I only want to understand these. Why are you all alive? Why are Muslims increasing in number?
Ask yourself.
oh, Faith and Religion are very different things
Faith is God made, Religion is Man made.
I didn't mean what you understood. I meant, Islam fought for good. People were living in bad, Islam rescued them and they lived in good. People were killed and were suffering, and Islam came to rescue them.
If Islam spread was by swords, well, swords disappeared, yet, Islamic countries are Islamic, and in fact Islam is greatly increasing in number in the world. Then, if Islam is violent, why I am not violent?? I am Muslim and proud to be Muslim. There is nothing called good Muslim and bad Muslim. There is nothing called Sunnah and Shia. Muslims were Muslims. Prophet PBUH was neither sunni nor shia. Shia is a group that drew bad pic about Islam and Muslims.
Religion is man made except the religion of the God, which is god's made. I have a proof that Allah name was used even before the prophet Muhammad PBUH by jews and christians, and this name is the god's name.
Fix it: Islamic faith is God made, Islamic religion is God made.
Almost all other religions today are man made for both faith and religion.
Why are you alive if Islam is violent?? I only want to understand these. Why are you all alive? Why are Muslims increasing in number?
Ask yourself.
Is Jesus peaceful?
tweetatoo;1257927 wrote: Ask yourself.
I've asked myself quite alot actually! It's the very reasoning why I know all religion to be a fairy tail depiction of what happens to be selfish desires in sync with one and another!
I'll ask you a question if I may(And know that I'm not trying to belittle anyone I've never in my life ever not been sincere in any question I've asked!)
Do you have any sisters tweetatoo?
I've asked myself quite alot actually! It's the very reasoning why I know all religion to be a fairy tail depiction of what happens to be selfish desires in sync with one and another!
I'll ask you a question if I may(And know that I'm not trying to belittle anyone I've never in my life ever not been sincere in any question I've asked!)
Do you have any sisters tweetatoo?
Is Jesus peaceful?
gmc;1257884 wrote: Violence and intolerance is inherent in any monotheistic religion. There are several things they fight about.
What is the right way to worship the one god.
Which is the right god.
- and that is something that completely bamboozles me how can a muslim or a christian be worshipping different gods since they both believe there is only one. Having agreed there is only one why does it matter how you worship? Is it really worthwhile killing each other over whether jesus was the son of god or a prophet?
Apart from being intolerant of those who share the belieef in the one god they save their ire for those who don't happen to believe in the one god or indeed any god at all.
Worship as you wish just stop going to war over your religion.
He might have been but his followers seem to prefer the old testament and the vindictive bastard of a god depicted therein. Forget love thy neighbour-burn him as a heretic instead.
Is Jesus any more culpable for the actions of his followers than the prophet is for his?
posted by meikinie
sadly You can't have one without then other and the religious with slaughter the faithful for the good of their souls.
posted by tweetatoo
One of the most worrying trends today is the resurgence of religion and religious wars it's a blight on humanity that belongs in the past
I don't know why you think Muslims are murderers and killers or violent!!!!
You (Christians and non-Muslims) were saying that Islam spread by swords. Well, swords disappeared and still Islam is growing!!! Then you come to say: resurgence will bring it back to wars!!!! Who told you that Muslims love wars??? The latest choice for Muslims was the fight! Read history for the crusade wars!! Blood from both Muslims and Christians in the Middle East were filling the streets! Don't you call this violence?
I wonder why is the following:
If a Jew or Christian grew his beard --- Religious man
If a Muslim grew his beard --- TERRORIST!
If a Christian nun covered her hair --- Religious
If a Muslim female covered her hair with Hijab --- Restricted and lost her right
If Crusade wars --- rescuing of humanity
If Muslim wars (although none; all wars which Muslims were part in never were started by Muslims) --- Danger on Humanity!!!
If Jesus (PBUH) killed or fought --- He is our teacher
If Muhammad (PBUH) killed or fought --- TERRORIST!
If David or Solomon married more than 10 females --- Prophets
If Muhammad PBUH or Muslims Married four --- Womanizers!
Why is the world against Muslim?
Simply, because Islam is a great religion.
What is the right way to worship the one god.
Which is the right god.
- and that is something that completely bamboozles me how can a muslim or a christian be worshipping different gods since they both believe there is only one. Having agreed there is only one why does it matter how you worship? Is it really worthwhile killing each other over whether jesus was the son of god or a prophet?
Apart from being intolerant of those who share the belieef in the one god they save their ire for those who don't happen to believe in the one god or indeed any god at all.
Worship as you wish just stop going to war over your religion.
He might have been but his followers seem to prefer the old testament and the vindictive bastard of a god depicted therein. Forget love thy neighbour-burn him as a heretic instead.
Is Jesus any more culpable for the actions of his followers than the prophet is for his?
posted by meikinie
sadly You can't have one without then other and the religious with slaughter the faithful for the good of their souls.
posted by tweetatoo
One of the most worrying trends today is the resurgence of religion and religious wars it's a blight on humanity that belongs in the past
I don't know why you think Muslims are murderers and killers or violent!!!!
You (Christians and non-Muslims) were saying that Islam spread by swords. Well, swords disappeared and still Islam is growing!!! Then you come to say: resurgence will bring it back to wars!!!! Who told you that Muslims love wars??? The latest choice for Muslims was the fight! Read history for the crusade wars!! Blood from both Muslims and Christians in the Middle East were filling the streets! Don't you call this violence?
I wonder why is the following:
If a Jew or Christian grew his beard --- Religious man
If a Muslim grew his beard --- TERRORIST!
If a Christian nun covered her hair --- Religious
If a Muslim female covered her hair with Hijab --- Restricted and lost her right
If Crusade wars --- rescuing of humanity
If Muslim wars (although none; all wars which Muslims were part in never were started by Muslims) --- Danger on Humanity!!!
If Jesus (PBUH) killed or fought --- He is our teacher
If Muhammad (PBUH) killed or fought --- TERRORIST!
If David or Solomon married more than 10 females --- Prophets
If Muhammad PBUH or Muslims Married four --- Womanizers!
Why is the world against Muslim?
Simply, because Islam is a great religion.
Is Jesus peaceful?
AussiePam;1257890 wrote: Religion gives God a bad name.
Except for Islam.
Except for Islam.
Is Jesus peaceful?
KSnyder;1257928 wrote: I've asked myself quite alot actually! It's the very reasoning why I know all religion to be a fairy tail depiction of what happens to be selfish desires in sync with one and another!
I'll ask you a question if I may(And know that I'm not trying to belittle anyone I've never in my life ever not been sincere in any question I've asked!)
Do you have any sisters tweetatoo?
You understand Islam incorrectly.
Islam not selfish. If I was selfish, I wouldn't try to rescue you from hellfire.
I have one sister, who wears Hijab and is religious, Alhamdolellah.
I'll ask you a question if I may(And know that I'm not trying to belittle anyone I've never in my life ever not been sincere in any question I've asked!)
Do you have any sisters tweetatoo?
You understand Islam incorrectly.
Islam not selfish. If I was selfish, I wouldn't try to rescue you from hellfire.
I have one sister, who wears Hijab and is religious, Alhamdolellah.
Is Jesus peaceful?
tweetatoo;1257931 wrote: Except for Islam.
No exceptions.
No exceptions.
"Life is too short to ski with ugly men"
Is Jesus peaceful?
tweetatoo;1257932 wrote: You understand Islam incorrectly.
Islam not selfish. If I was selfish, I wouldn't try to rescue you from hellfire.
I have one sister, who wears Hijab and is religious, Alhamdolellah.
tweet,..
listen to me dude!
You may understand what I do not but you don't know what I understand! If you wouldn't be so damn defensive our conversations could be much more beneficial to the both of us! I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest to the world that your hesitancy to view your own opinions objectively brings me to the conclusion that you're roughly 18 years of age am I correct so far? Viewing your opinions objectively is a fancy Dan phrase for being open to others' opinions!
Let's continue shall we?
"Religion", by definition, is selfish otherwise there'd be no need to voice it as a "religion"! The One True God has no "religion" because there'd be only one way to worship! "Religion" is definitively indicative of the concept of many beliefs! That much is logically true!
Lastly, all I wish to do is ask if your sister dates any guys that's all! Does your sister date guys?
Islam not selfish. If I was selfish, I wouldn't try to rescue you from hellfire.
I have one sister, who wears Hijab and is religious, Alhamdolellah.
tweet,..
listen to me dude!
You may understand what I do not but you don't know what I understand! If you wouldn't be so damn defensive our conversations could be much more beneficial to the both of us! I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest to the world that your hesitancy to view your own opinions objectively brings me to the conclusion that you're roughly 18 years of age am I correct so far? Viewing your opinions objectively is a fancy Dan phrase for being open to others' opinions!
Let's continue shall we?
"Religion", by definition, is selfish otherwise there'd be no need to voice it as a "religion"! The One True God has no "religion" because there'd be only one way to worship! "Religion" is definitively indicative of the concept of many beliefs! That much is logically true!
Lastly, all I wish to do is ask if your sister dates any guys that's all! Does your sister date guys?
Is Jesus peaceful?
AussiePam;1257933 wrote: No exceptions.
KSnyder;1257937 wrote: tweet,..
listen to me dude!
You may understand what I do not but you don't know what I understand! If you wouldn't be so damn defensive our conversations could be much more beneficial to the both of us! I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest to the world that your hesitancy to view your own opinions objectively brings me to the conclusion that you're roughly 18 years of age am I correct so far? Viewing your opinions objectively is a fancy Dan phrase for being open to others' opinions!
Let's continue shall we?
"Religion", by definition, is selfish otherwise there'd be no need to voice it as a "religion"! The One True God has no "religion" because there'd be only one way to worship! "Religion" is definitively indicative of the concept of many beliefs! That much is logically true!
Lastly, all I wish to do is ask if your sister dates any guys that's all! Does your sister date guys?
For both of you: where are your proofs?!
This "definition" is human made, and Islam is never selfish.
What would make to you if I was 18 or older or smaller. Anyways, still, I see through the god, but you don't.
If you want to understand, then you are welcome. Tell me about what you understand so that I can help. Otherwise, conversation will never be helpful.
My sister never dated and will never date. She is married. If you have girlfriend, I don't have. If western girls have girlfiends, true Muslim females don't!
I would kindly ask you: why don't you believe in Quran?
KSnyder;1257937 wrote: tweet,..
listen to me dude!
You may understand what I do not but you don't know what I understand! If you wouldn't be so damn defensive our conversations could be much more beneficial to the both of us! I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest to the world that your hesitancy to view your own opinions objectively brings me to the conclusion that you're roughly 18 years of age am I correct so far? Viewing your opinions objectively is a fancy Dan phrase for being open to others' opinions!
Let's continue shall we?
"Religion", by definition, is selfish otherwise there'd be no need to voice it as a "religion"! The One True God has no "religion" because there'd be only one way to worship! "Religion" is definitively indicative of the concept of many beliefs! That much is logically true!
Lastly, all I wish to do is ask if your sister dates any guys that's all! Does your sister date guys?
For both of you: where are your proofs?!
This "definition" is human made, and Islam is never selfish.
What would make to you if I was 18 or older or smaller. Anyways, still, I see through the god, but you don't.
If you want to understand, then you are welcome. Tell me about what you understand so that I can help. Otherwise, conversation will never be helpful.
My sister never dated and will never date. She is married. If you have girlfriend, I don't have. If western girls have girlfiends, true Muslim females don't!
I would kindly ask you: why don't you believe in Quran?
Is Jesus peaceful?
tweetatoo;1257940 wrote: For both of you: where are your proofs?!
This "definition" is human made, and Islam is never selfish.
What would make to you if I was 18 or older or smaller. Anyways, still, I see through the god, but you don't.
If you want to understand, then you are welcome. Tell me about what you understand so that I can help. Otherwise, conversation will never be helpful.
My sister never dated and will never date. She is married. If you have girlfriend, I don't have. If western girls have girlfiends, true Muslim females don't!
I would kindly ask you: why don't you believe in Quran?
:wah:
"I think what we have here.....is a failure...to communicate"!
You're misunderstanding my intentions!
What I'd said is logically true! I'm not speaking of your "religion" specifically I'm talking about the very definition of "religion"! I'm not looking up and pasting the definition for you, you have to do that on your own!
Did your sister date before she married?
This thread is entitled "Is Jesus peaceful?"! It has nothing to do with the Quran! If you wish to present to me the parables of the Quran in another thread I'd be happy to read them and tell you what I feel about them! Until then I will continue to care about people!
This "definition" is human made, and Islam is never selfish.
What would make to you if I was 18 or older or smaller. Anyways, still, I see through the god, but you don't.
If you want to understand, then you are welcome. Tell me about what you understand so that I can help. Otherwise, conversation will never be helpful.
My sister never dated and will never date. She is married. If you have girlfriend, I don't have. If western girls have girlfiends, true Muslim females don't!
I would kindly ask you: why don't you believe in Quran?
:wah:
"I think what we have here.....is a failure...to communicate"!
You're misunderstanding my intentions!
What I'd said is logically true! I'm not speaking of your "religion" specifically I'm talking about the very definition of "religion"! I'm not looking up and pasting the definition for you, you have to do that on your own!
Did your sister date before she married?
This thread is entitled "Is Jesus peaceful?"! It has nothing to do with the Quran! If you wish to present to me the parables of the Quran in another thread I'd be happy to read them and tell you what I feel about them! Until then I will continue to care about people!
Is Jesus peaceful?
KSnyder;1257943 wrote: :wah:
"I think what we have here.....is a failure...to communicate"!
You're misunderstanding my intentions!
What I'd said is logically true! I'm not speaking of your "religion" specifically I'm talking about the very definition of "religion"! I'm not looking up and pasting the definition for you, you have to do that on your own!
Did your sister date before she married?
This thread is entitled "Is Jesus peaceful?"! It has nothing to do with the Quran! If you wish to present to me the parables of the Quran in another thread I'd be happy to read them and tell you what I feel about them! Until then I will continue to care about people!
No, there will not be a failure to communicate, don't worry, but just say in your heart: I want to understand Islam.
If I misunderstand, please let me understand. What you have said is "logically true" from your point of view. But do other people agree with you? It is at the end definition chosen by people. Other can choose other "more-logical" definition of religion which says that no selfishness in religion.
If you are serious, I will help you understand Islam, and I swear, you will find Quran amazing if you hear it in its Original Arabic words. You will say: this must be from god.
I will open a new discussion topic about Quran inshallah. You are welcome to my posts.
My sister did not date before she married. In Islam, a woman can go with a man out only if he is his brother, father, husband or those mentioned in Quran like her sister's son. Otherwise, she is not allowed to date with someone just because he is going to be her future husband. She is allowed to speak to someone else in the presence of one of the mentioned above or in the public. The point behind this is not to Allow the female and the male to become alone in one room. At that time, satan is clever and will induce them into what is not wanted.
Islam=peace.
"I think what we have here.....is a failure...to communicate"!
You're misunderstanding my intentions!
What I'd said is logically true! I'm not speaking of your "religion" specifically I'm talking about the very definition of "religion"! I'm not looking up and pasting the definition for you, you have to do that on your own!
Did your sister date before she married?
This thread is entitled "Is Jesus peaceful?"! It has nothing to do with the Quran! If you wish to present to me the parables of the Quran in another thread I'd be happy to read them and tell you what I feel about them! Until then I will continue to care about people!
No, there will not be a failure to communicate, don't worry, but just say in your heart: I want to understand Islam.
If I misunderstand, please let me understand. What you have said is "logically true" from your point of view. But do other people agree with you? It is at the end definition chosen by people. Other can choose other "more-logical" definition of religion which says that no selfishness in religion.
If you are serious, I will help you understand Islam, and I swear, you will find Quran amazing if you hear it in its Original Arabic words. You will say: this must be from god.
I will open a new discussion topic about Quran inshallah. You are welcome to my posts.
My sister did not date before she married. In Islam, a woman can go with a man out only if he is his brother, father, husband or those mentioned in Quran like her sister's son. Otherwise, she is not allowed to date with someone just because he is going to be her future husband. She is allowed to speak to someone else in the presence of one of the mentioned above or in the public. The point behind this is not to Allow the female and the male to become alone in one room. At that time, satan is clever and will induce them into what is not wanted.
Islam=peace.
Is Jesus peaceful?
tweetatoo;1257952 wrote:
If I misunderstand, please let me understand. What you have said is "logically true" from your point of view. But do other people agree with you? It is at the end definition chosen by people. Other can choose other "more-logical" definition of religion which says that no selfishness in religion. If the only color in the world was green why would we need to call it green?
tweetatoo;1257952 wrote:
If you are serious, I will help you understand Islam, and I swear, you will find Quran amazing if you hear it in its Original Arabic words. You will say: this must be from god.
I will open a new discussion topic about Quran inshallah. You are welcome to my posts. I have no doubt that some of the passages you deem to be Muslim is based off of the logic of My God! The difference being is that I see My God in everything I know to be true and good and is not paculiar to Muslims! Is that not understandable?
tweetatoo;1257952 wrote:
My sister did not date before she married. In Islam, a woman can go with a man out only if he is his brother, father, husband or those mentioned in Quran like her sister's son. Otherwise, she is not allowed to date with someone just because he is going to be her future husband. She is allowed to speak to someone else in the presence of one of the mentioned above or in the public. The point behind this is not to Allow the female and the male to become alone in one room. At that time, satan is clever and will induce them into what is not wanted.
Islam=peace. So long as "you" people are less clever than "Satan":yh_nailbi "you'll" always need "religion"!
Did anyone stop to ask if she might like to get to know a "guy" specifically before she were expected to have sex with "him"? I mean this "guy" could have and could still be psycho killer norman bates' predecessor! FFS!!!!!!!
If I misunderstand, please let me understand. What you have said is "logically true" from your point of view. But do other people agree with you? It is at the end definition chosen by people. Other can choose other "more-logical" definition of religion which says that no selfishness in religion. If the only color in the world was green why would we need to call it green?
tweetatoo;1257952 wrote:
If you are serious, I will help you understand Islam, and I swear, you will find Quran amazing if you hear it in its Original Arabic words. You will say: this must be from god.
I will open a new discussion topic about Quran inshallah. You are welcome to my posts. I have no doubt that some of the passages you deem to be Muslim is based off of the logic of My God! The difference being is that I see My God in everything I know to be true and good and is not paculiar to Muslims! Is that not understandable?
tweetatoo;1257952 wrote:
My sister did not date before she married. In Islam, a woman can go with a man out only if he is his brother, father, husband or those mentioned in Quran like her sister's son. Otherwise, she is not allowed to date with someone just because he is going to be her future husband. She is allowed to speak to someone else in the presence of one of the mentioned above or in the public. The point behind this is not to Allow the female and the male to become alone in one room. At that time, satan is clever and will induce them into what is not wanted.
Islam=peace. So long as "you" people are less clever than "Satan":yh_nailbi "you'll" always need "religion"!
Did anyone stop to ask if she might like to get to know a "guy" specifically before she were expected to have sex with "him"? I mean this "guy" could have and could still be psycho killer norman bates' predecessor! FFS!!!!!!!
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Richard Bell
- Posts: 1228
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:56 am
Is Jesus peaceful?
tweetatoo;1257776 wrote:
My question: why didn't Jesus forgive his enemies? Isn't he peaceful? You want more?
I've heard he becomes rather cross, come springtime.
tweetatoo;1257776 wrote:
Well, can we read together Luke 19: ...
My question: why didn't Jesus forgive his enemies? Isn't he peaceful? You want more?
Matthew 10:
"The Bible says a lot of things."
Homer J. Simpson
My question: why didn't Jesus forgive his enemies? Isn't he peaceful? You want more?
I've heard he becomes rather cross, come springtime.
tweetatoo;1257776 wrote:
Well, can we read together Luke 19: ...
My question: why didn't Jesus forgive his enemies? Isn't he peaceful? You want more?
Matthew 10:
"The Bible says a lot of things."
Homer J. Simpson
Is Jesus peaceful?
[QUOTE=tweetatoo;1257927]I didn't mean what you understood. I meant, Islam fought for good. People were living in bad, Islam rescued them and they lived in good. People were killed and were suffering, and Islam came to rescue them.
Once again you prove my point, and this is why this is my last response to this.
So when you fight and kill, it is for good.
By fighting, and killing, you were actually helping those you were fighting, to free them and save them. This is the justifications for war.
this is why, I do not, and never will follow any religous.
I am a free man
Once again you prove my point, and this is why this is my last response to this.
So when you fight and kill, it is for good.
By fighting, and killing, you were actually helping those you were fighting, to free them and save them. This is the justifications for war.
this is why, I do not, and never will follow any religous.
I am a free man
Is Jesus peaceful?
tweetatoo;1257929 wrote: I don't know why you think Muslims are murderers and killers or violent!!!!
You (Christians and non-Muslims) were saying that Islam spread by swords. Well, swords disappeared and still Islam is growing!!! Then you come to say: resurgence will bring it back to wars!!!! Who told you that Muslims love wars??? The latest choice for Muslims was the fight! Read history for the crusade wars!! Blood from both Muslims and Christians in the Middle East were filling the streets! Don't you call this violence?
I wonder why is the following:
If a Jew or Christian grew his beard --- Religious man
If a Muslim grew his beard --- TERRORIST!
If a Christian nun covered her hair --- Religious
If a Muslim female covered her hair with Hijab --- Restricted and lost her right
If Crusade wars --- rescuing of humanity
If Muslim wars (although none; all wars which Muslims were part in never were started by Muslims) --- Danger on Humanity!!!
If Jesus (PBUH) killed or fought --- He is our teacher
If Muhammad (PBUH) killed or fought --- TERRORIST!
If David or Solomon married more than 10 females --- Prophets
If Muhammad PBUH or Muslims Married four --- Womanizers!
Why is the world against Muslim?
Simply, because Islam is a great religion.
Unlike your good self I only speak and write english and I know it is a second language to you but you do miss the meaning of my post.
I was pointing out that both islam and christianity as monotheistic religions sharing the same characteristic flaw in that they are inherently violent and intolerant. Incidentally I am not a christian.
Christianity was also spread by the sword as it happens once there were enough Christians they set about converting people by force quite frankly there is nothing peaceful about either Christianity or islam despite the peaceful message both claim to expound.
posted by tweetatoo
I didn't mean what you understood. I meant, Islam fought for good. People were living in bad, Islam rescued them and they lived in good. People were killed and were suffering, and Islam came to rescue them.
Islam like Christianity decided it had the moral right to use force to convert unbelievers. The selfish god wants everything and will brook no dissenters.
posted by tweetatoo
I would kindly ask you: why don't you believe in Quran?
A question not addressed to me but if you don't mind me answering for myself-how about because like the bible it is a collection of writings about an ancient people who were describing things they saw and lived through but unable to explain imagined in to being a capricious god to whom they convinced themselves they owed unquestioning obedience.. Many of the seemingly fantastical incidents in it can now be corroborated. It is many things but the one thing it is NOT is the word of god.
To be religious you must suspend all reason and common sense and in an age where many are now educated and can read and think for themselves many don't believe it any more.
That is why some fundamentalist muslim countries (and fundamentalist Christians as well) want to control education and what is taught. When people reason they lose faith because faith is completely irrational.
You (Christians and non-Muslims) were saying that Islam spread by swords. Well, swords disappeared and still Islam is growing!!! Then you come to say: resurgence will bring it back to wars!!!! Who told you that Muslims love wars??? The latest choice for Muslims was the fight! Read history for the crusade wars!! Blood from both Muslims and Christians in the Middle East were filling the streets! Don't you call this violence?
I wonder why is the following:
If a Jew or Christian grew his beard --- Religious man
If a Muslim grew his beard --- TERRORIST!
If a Christian nun covered her hair --- Religious
If a Muslim female covered her hair with Hijab --- Restricted and lost her right
If Crusade wars --- rescuing of humanity
If Muslim wars (although none; all wars which Muslims were part in never were started by Muslims) --- Danger on Humanity!!!
If Jesus (PBUH) killed or fought --- He is our teacher
If Muhammad (PBUH) killed or fought --- TERRORIST!
If David or Solomon married more than 10 females --- Prophets
If Muhammad PBUH or Muslims Married four --- Womanizers!
Why is the world against Muslim?
Simply, because Islam is a great religion.
Unlike your good self I only speak and write english and I know it is a second language to you but you do miss the meaning of my post.
I was pointing out that both islam and christianity as monotheistic religions sharing the same characteristic flaw in that they are inherently violent and intolerant. Incidentally I am not a christian.
Christianity was also spread by the sword as it happens once there were enough Christians they set about converting people by force quite frankly there is nothing peaceful about either Christianity or islam despite the peaceful message both claim to expound.
posted by tweetatoo
I didn't mean what you understood. I meant, Islam fought for good. People were living in bad, Islam rescued them and they lived in good. People were killed and were suffering, and Islam came to rescue them.
Islam like Christianity decided it had the moral right to use force to convert unbelievers. The selfish god wants everything and will brook no dissenters.
posted by tweetatoo
I would kindly ask you: why don't you believe in Quran?
A question not addressed to me but if you don't mind me answering for myself-how about because like the bible it is a collection of writings about an ancient people who were describing things they saw and lived through but unable to explain imagined in to being a capricious god to whom they convinced themselves they owed unquestioning obedience.. Many of the seemingly fantastical incidents in it can now be corroborated. It is many things but the one thing it is NOT is the word of god.
To be religious you must suspend all reason and common sense and in an age where many are now educated and can read and think for themselves many don't believe it any more.
That is why some fundamentalist muslim countries (and fundamentalist Christians as well) want to control education and what is taught. When people reason they lose faith because faith is completely irrational.
Is Jesus peaceful?
To all of you here, just wait my topics about Quran and Islam. I will not continue in this topic per se until I put some topics about Quran and Islam as a whole then we return back here, simply, because you are talking about a religion you never read about it correctly from major official sources of that religion. And more probably, you either read sources of Shia or orientalists. I would never discuss a religion I never read. When I discuss Christianity for example, I discuss it because I read bible, not because I read internet. You should have read Quran before you say what you say about Islam. If you don't understand anything, ask true Muslims about, not orientalists.
KSnyder, you think that all people are thinking like you! Be assured, true Muslim girls never date. My sister never talked to a males except doctors, father, uncles and brothers! "Sexual" thinking is not found in the vocabulary of Muslims. One of the topics I will put about Islam inshallah will talk about how people developed the idea of "Muslims" being womanizers, which is totally delivered incorrectly to your mind.
But as you know, I am studying medicine, and may not be posting every night, therefore, sorry if couldn't reply to all posts of you, but I will be replying inshallah.
KSnyder, you think that all people are thinking like you! Be assured, true Muslim girls never date. My sister never talked to a males except doctors, father, uncles and brothers! "Sexual" thinking is not found in the vocabulary of Muslims. One of the topics I will put about Islam inshallah will talk about how people developed the idea of "Muslims" being womanizers, which is totally delivered incorrectly to your mind.
But as you know, I am studying medicine, and may not be posting every night, therefore, sorry if couldn't reply to all posts of you, but I will be replying inshallah.
Is Jesus peaceful?
Why do you kill your daughters for becoming "too westernized"? We don't kill our daughters for "going arab".
Is Jesus peaceful?
My God can whip your God.:p
Is Jesus peaceful?
hoppy;1258285 wrote: My God can whip your God.:p
Now if I made any jokes about sado-masochism and religion I would be accused of disrespecting religion and taking the mickey out of the religious.
Do they take turn about?
Are religious wars caused by a lovers tiff?
If there is only one god and he is insane and has a spilt personality which one is the real god of the two and should you really be worshipping the insane?
Now if I made any jokes about sado-masochism and religion I would be accused of disrespecting religion and taking the mickey out of the religious.
Do they take turn about?
Are religious wars caused by a lovers tiff?
If there is only one god and he is insane and has a spilt personality which one is the real god of the two and should you really be worshipping the insane?
Is Jesus peaceful?
Tweet:-6
I am a Christian pluralist. All of the great faiths of the world have their extremists and they commit terrible crimes in the name of their God; all of them. The crusades were a terrible atrocity but so was the conquering of north Africa by the Muslims using the sword.
Have I read the Qur'an? My answer is simple. I have read parts of it and like Christians I see Muslims ignoring what the Holy Qur'an says.
Muhammad apparently believed that he was worshiping the same God as the Jews and Christians. God has a thousand names: Yahweh, Allah, Vishnu, the Great Spirit. There is only one God.
I believe that Muhammad like Jesus enjoyed a special relationship with the Divine. However, I no more believe that the Bible is any more the "Word of God" than is the Qur'an. Both books claim or apparently claim to be "The Word of God:"
Instead of coming here and attacking others faiths or proselytizing yours the better approach is to engage in a dialogue to understand one another. With that understanding perhaps we can get rid of all the extremists on both sides.
I am a member of an Ecumenical Society that has spent the last 3 years listening to leaders of the various faiths explain their particular faith and answer straight forward question. Among those we enjoyed a dialogue with the local Islamic Society.
I would say you are correct that at its heart Islam is a religion of peace but so are the other great faiths of the world at their very roots. (Karen Armstrong)
A forum such as this is no place to proselytize but it is a great place to engage in constructive and mutually rewarding dialogue.
Shalom
Mate:-6
I am a Christian pluralist. All of the great faiths of the world have their extremists and they commit terrible crimes in the name of their God; all of them. The crusades were a terrible atrocity but so was the conquering of north Africa by the Muslims using the sword.
Have I read the Qur'an? My answer is simple. I have read parts of it and like Christians I see Muslims ignoring what the Holy Qur'an says.
Muhammad apparently believed that he was worshiping the same God as the Jews and Christians. God has a thousand names: Yahweh, Allah, Vishnu, the Great Spirit. There is only one God.
I believe that Muhammad like Jesus enjoyed a special relationship with the Divine. However, I no more believe that the Bible is any more the "Word of God" than is the Qur'an. Both books claim or apparently claim to be "The Word of God:"
Instead of coming here and attacking others faiths or proselytizing yours the better approach is to engage in a dialogue to understand one another. With that understanding perhaps we can get rid of all the extremists on both sides.
I am a member of an Ecumenical Society that has spent the last 3 years listening to leaders of the various faiths explain their particular faith and answer straight forward question. Among those we enjoyed a dialogue with the local Islamic Society.
I would say you are correct that at its heart Islam is a religion of peace but so are the other great faiths of the world at their very roots. (Karen Armstrong)
A forum such as this is no place to proselytize but it is a great place to engage in constructive and mutually rewarding dialogue.
Shalom
Mate:-6
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Omni_Skittles
- Posts: 2613
- Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:10 am
Is Jesus peaceful?
tweetatoo;1257776 wrote: Hello all!
I notice that many start discussion with that Islam fights ... Islam fights ... Islam fights ... Hey all hold on please!
This a thing that you misunderstood.
Muslims never fought for money or for interest!!!
Well, can we read together Luke 19:
My question: why didn't Jesus forgive his enemies? Isn't he peaceful? You want more?
Matthew 10:
????????????
No comment.
But concerning that Islam is violence and violence is Islam!!! Can anyone of you please tell me then: why are you still alive if we are violent? Why is Christians alive there in Arabic and Muslim countries?????
Simply, because of misunderstanding. Muslims fought because they were killed. The were sent away from there home. Muslims fought because the were fought. Fighting is not our logo!!! Our logo is: La ilaha illah Allah .. Muhammad Rasool Allah. "Means: Bearing witness there is no God except Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger". Islam never spread through swords, and the evidence is that it is the fastest growing religion today, yet no swords!!!
More of discussions come soon inshallah.Luke 19 is about a parable... you're totally taking this out of context, just as you accuse christians of doing... and the same for matthew 10. If you actually read those in context you'd find that the bigger picture speaks of Jesus' love. But then again, i've never accused Islam of whatever it is you say... so i guess this really is a pointless arguement for me to join in on.
I notice that many start discussion with that Islam fights ... Islam fights ... Islam fights ... Hey all hold on please!
This a thing that you misunderstood.
Muslims never fought for money or for interest!!!
Well, can we read together Luke 19:
My question: why didn't Jesus forgive his enemies? Isn't he peaceful? You want more?
Matthew 10:
????????????
No comment.
But concerning that Islam is violence and violence is Islam!!! Can anyone of you please tell me then: why are you still alive if we are violent? Why is Christians alive there in Arabic and Muslim countries?????
Simply, because of misunderstanding. Muslims fought because they were killed. The were sent away from there home. Muslims fought because the were fought. Fighting is not our logo!!! Our logo is: La ilaha illah Allah .. Muhammad Rasool Allah. "Means: Bearing witness there is no God except Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger". Islam never spread through swords, and the evidence is that it is the fastest growing religion today, yet no swords!!!
More of discussions come soon inshallah.Luke 19 is about a parable... you're totally taking this out of context, just as you accuse christians of doing... and the same for matthew 10. If you actually read those in context you'd find that the bigger picture speaks of Jesus' love. But then again, i've never accused Islam of whatever it is you say... so i guess this really is a pointless arguement for me to join in on.
Smoke signals ftw!
Is Jesus peaceful?
Maybe a better question would be what makes the followers of both islam and Christianity choose to hold to the violence and hatred of the old testament rather than the peaceful message of both the prophet and jesus christ?
Both essentially preach the same thing live in peace with yourself and those around you. Respect yourself and those around you and don't kill unless in self defence. How does those become I have the right to kill those who do not believe as I do? I have the right to condemn those who choose not to live as I do or not to believe as I do.
For both christianity and islam I can find examples where tolerance and understanding has been the norm just as there are countless examples of atrocities commited in the nam of religion. Christian on christian, muslim on muslim, muslim on Christianity, christian on muslim. Neither have clean hands.
Is religious warfare and what we see happening now really the fault of the teachings of JC or the prophet?
I'm not religious and I'm curious to see if anyone can give an answer without, metaphorically speaking, reaching for clubs to hit each other with.
I think the problem is monotheism is that some cannot concede that their view of god might be wrong-or lack the faith to hold to their own beliefs and let others do the same.
Both essentially preach the same thing live in peace with yourself and those around you. Respect yourself and those around you and don't kill unless in self defence. How does those become I have the right to kill those who do not believe as I do? I have the right to condemn those who choose not to live as I do or not to believe as I do.
For both christianity and islam I can find examples where tolerance and understanding has been the norm just as there are countless examples of atrocities commited in the nam of religion. Christian on christian, muslim on muslim, muslim on Christianity, christian on muslim. Neither have clean hands.
Is religious warfare and what we see happening now really the fault of the teachings of JC or the prophet?
I'm not religious and I'm curious to see if anyone can give an answer without, metaphorically speaking, reaching for clubs to hit each other with.
I think the problem is monotheism is that some cannot concede that their view of god might be wrong-or lack the faith to hold to their own beliefs and let others do the same.
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Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
Is Jesus peaceful?
Then, if Islam is violent, why I am not violent?? I am Muslim and proud to be Muslim.
Because you are a good person? I'm not a muslim and I'm not violent. Violent, evil people are violent and evil no matter WHAT religion they follow. Some people flew aeroplanes into the Twin Towers and killed hundreds of Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus and atheists. They claimed to be Muslim. Was that violent, or not? Catholic or Protestant, Sunni or Shia, THAT act was evil. So was sawing off the head of a hostage, videotaping the murder and posting the video on the internet. Islam is not evil, but some Muslims are; Christianity is not evil, but some Christians are.
Shia is a group that drew bad pic about Islam and Muslims.
So what should be done with these Shia? Are they Muslim or not? If they give your religion a bad name what do you think should be done about it?
Because you are a good person? I'm not a muslim and I'm not violent. Violent, evil people are violent and evil no matter WHAT religion they follow. Some people flew aeroplanes into the Twin Towers and killed hundreds of Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus and atheists. They claimed to be Muslim. Was that violent, or not? Catholic or Protestant, Sunni or Shia, THAT act was evil. So was sawing off the head of a hostage, videotaping the murder and posting the video on the internet. Islam is not evil, but some Muslims are; Christianity is not evil, but some Christians are.
Shia is a group that drew bad pic about Islam and Muslims.
So what should be done with these Shia? Are they Muslim or not? If they give your religion a bad name what do you think should be done about it?
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
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Bullhornman
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:57 pm
Is Jesus peaceful?
tweetatoo;1257776 wrote: Hello all!
I notice that many start discussion with that Islam fights ... Islam fights ... Islam fights ... Hey all hold on please!
This a thing that you misunderstood.
Muslims never fought for money or for interest!!!
Well, can we read together Luke 19:
My question: why didn't Jesus forgive his enemies? Isn't he peaceful? You want more?
Matthew 10:
????????????
No comment.
But concerning that Islam is violence and violence is Islam!!! Can anyone of you please tell me then: why are you still alive if we are violent? Why is Christians alive there in Arabic and Muslim countries?????
Simply, because of misunderstanding. Muslims fought because they were killed. The were sent away from there home. Muslims fought because the were fought. Fighting is not our logo!!! Our logo is: La ilaha illah Allah .. Muhammad Rasool Allah. "Means: Bearing witness there is no God except Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger". Islam never spread through swords, and the evidence is that it is the fastest growing religion today, yet no swords!!!
More of discussions come soon inshallah.
Jesus said He would bring division and the sword. He says that father will be against son and mother against daughter. Jesus is not some candy ass that you can control by your filthy worldly political correctness. Remember Jesus in the Temple with His bullwhip? Remember when Jesus called his generation faithless and perverse? He called His generation faithless perverts. Is that a misprint? I don't think so. You folks better stop putting the Lord of Lords in a box that you can control. You will go to Hell for it.
I notice that many start discussion with that Islam fights ... Islam fights ... Islam fights ... Hey all hold on please!
This a thing that you misunderstood.
Muslims never fought for money or for interest!!!
Well, can we read together Luke 19:
My question: why didn't Jesus forgive his enemies? Isn't he peaceful? You want more?
Matthew 10:
????????????
No comment.
But concerning that Islam is violence and violence is Islam!!! Can anyone of you please tell me then: why are you still alive if we are violent? Why is Christians alive there in Arabic and Muslim countries?????
Simply, because of misunderstanding. Muslims fought because they were killed. The were sent away from there home. Muslims fought because the were fought. Fighting is not our logo!!! Our logo is: La ilaha illah Allah .. Muhammad Rasool Allah. "Means: Bearing witness there is no God except Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger". Islam never spread through swords, and the evidence is that it is the fastest growing religion today, yet no swords!!!
More of discussions come soon inshallah.
Jesus said He would bring division and the sword. He says that father will be against son and mother against daughter. Jesus is not some candy ass that you can control by your filthy worldly political correctness. Remember Jesus in the Temple with His bullwhip? Remember when Jesus called his generation faithless and perverse? He called His generation faithless perverts. Is that a misprint? I don't think so. You folks better stop putting the Lord of Lords in a box that you can control. You will go to Hell for it.
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Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
Is Jesus peaceful?
Jesus said He would bring division and the sword. He says that father will be against son and mother against daughter. Jesus is not some candy ass that you can control by your filthy worldly political correctness. Remember Jesus in the Temple with His bullwhip? Remember when Jesus called his generation faithless and perverse? He called His generation faithless perverts. Is that a misprint? I don't think so. You folks better stop putting the Lord of Lords in a box that you can control. You will go to Hell for it.
These three abide: Faith, Hope and Love. But the greatest of these is Love.
These three abide: Faith, Hope and Love. But the greatest of these is Love.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
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freethinkingthuthseeker
- Posts: 245
- Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:22 pm
Is Jesus peaceful?
tweetatoo;1257795 wrote: Ooh!! That's not true my dear.
Islam was not born in a bath of blood.
Assume A and B are two different groups:
A fought B -- there is bath of blood.
B fought A -- there is bath of blood.
Can you tell me from these two little statements: who is the violent? Is it A or B?
Similarly Islam, Muslims fought those who fought Muslims. Of course if someone kills my family, I will kill him by every other means, and that's my right, although forgiving him is better to Allah. But Allah, knew our nature and that we cannot live with who kills us, so he allowed us to kill who kills us, and to forgive whenever possible unless there is sending out form home, here we have to fight until we restore our home.
Religion does not confuse with faith. If your religion is different from your faith, know that you are neither faithful nor religious.
A one faithful should, by definition, be religious and vice versa.
Islam is the religion of peace, and never fought for bad. I have many Christian friends, yet not violent with them. We are very nice friends and I never showed violent acts against them. Can you tell me if Islam was born in baths of blood, why are then Christians alive there? Because actually Islam is a religion of peace, and although there is no swords today, yet, Islam is the fastest growing religion, a matter that I am proud of.
I think with respect you have overlooked the following facts: Muhammad led 27 military campaigns against innocentvillages and caravans & planned 38 others
“I am the prophet that laughs when killing my enemies.” (Hadith)
Christians & Jewish martyrs say; "I will die for what I believe".
A Muslim martyr says; "you will die for what I believe"....
see what I mean? Also I have read much of the Bible and all of the quran which after knowing God through the Bible was incrtedibly disappointing.
I read it about 3 years ago and since then have been asking Muslims to anser a few big questions but not one has been able to answer these questiuons with any credibility or Spiritual understanding.
The questions are:
Why is Mohammed called a Prophet when he has apparently not propecised anything?
Why is the quran such a small book after 23 years of so called revelation?
Why is it so incredibly repetitive?
What NEW Wisdom (no scientific knowledge is not wisdom so don;t try that soft answer) is in the quran that was not already in the Holy Bible?
Why was new information needed when the Bible already tells the whole story?
What miracles did Mohammed perform?
I bet you have no good answers for these as the Truth is all in the Bible my friend, God bless you
P.S. The World is round not flat and held down by mountains, and an embryo starts way below the ribs!
Islam was not born in a bath of blood.
Assume A and B are two different groups:
A fought B -- there is bath of blood.
B fought A -- there is bath of blood.
Can you tell me from these two little statements: who is the violent? Is it A or B?
Similarly Islam, Muslims fought those who fought Muslims. Of course if someone kills my family, I will kill him by every other means, and that's my right, although forgiving him is better to Allah. But Allah, knew our nature and that we cannot live with who kills us, so he allowed us to kill who kills us, and to forgive whenever possible unless there is sending out form home, here we have to fight until we restore our home.
Religion does not confuse with faith. If your religion is different from your faith, know that you are neither faithful nor religious.
A one faithful should, by definition, be religious and vice versa.
Islam is the religion of peace, and never fought for bad. I have many Christian friends, yet not violent with them. We are very nice friends and I never showed violent acts against them. Can you tell me if Islam was born in baths of blood, why are then Christians alive there? Because actually Islam is a religion of peace, and although there is no swords today, yet, Islam is the fastest growing religion, a matter that I am proud of.
I think with respect you have overlooked the following facts: Muhammad led 27 military campaigns against innocentvillages and caravans & planned 38 others
“I am the prophet that laughs when killing my enemies.” (Hadith)
Christians & Jewish martyrs say; "I will die for what I believe".
A Muslim martyr says; "you will die for what I believe"....
see what I mean? Also I have read much of the Bible and all of the quran which after knowing God through the Bible was incrtedibly disappointing.
I read it about 3 years ago and since then have been asking Muslims to anser a few big questions but not one has been able to answer these questiuons with any credibility or Spiritual understanding.
The questions are:
Why is Mohammed called a Prophet when he has apparently not propecised anything?
Why is the quran such a small book after 23 years of so called revelation?
Why is it so incredibly repetitive?
What NEW Wisdom (no scientific knowledge is not wisdom so don;t try that soft answer) is in the quran that was not already in the Holy Bible?
Why was new information needed when the Bible already tells the whole story?
What miracles did Mohammed perform?
I bet you have no good answers for these as the Truth is all in the Bible my friend, God bless you
P.S. The World is round not flat and held down by mountains, and an embryo starts way below the ribs!
Is Jesus peaceful?
This whole discussion overlooks one very basic fact.
Human beings are, by nature, violent.
Those in power will use any means at their disposal to get the folks who follow them to do "what needs to be done" to preserve their power.
Religion is just another tool of the cunning and powerful, to manage the rest of the populace.
Human beings are, by nature, violent.
Those in power will use any means at their disposal to get the folks who follow them to do "what needs to be done" to preserve their power.
Religion is just another tool of the cunning and powerful, to manage the rest of the populace.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
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freethinkingthuthseeker
- Posts: 245
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Is Jesus peaceful?
tweetatoo;1258242 wrote: To all of you here, just wait my topics about Quran and Islam. I will not continue in this topic per se until I put some topics about Quran and Islam as a whole then we return back here, simply, because you are talking about a religion you never read about it correctly from major official sources of that religion. And more probably, you either read sources of Shia or orientalists. I would never discuss a religion I never read. When I discuss Christianity for example, I discuss it because I read bible, not because I read internet. You should have read Quran before you say what you say about Islam. If you don't understand anything, ask true Muslims about, not orientalists.
KSnyder, you think that all people are thinking like you! Be assured, true Muslim girls never date. My sister never talked to a males except doctors, father, uncles and brothers! "Sexual" thinking is not found in the vocabulary of Muslims. One of the topics I will put about Islam inshallah will talk about how people developed the idea of "Muslims" being womanizers, which is totally delivered incorrectly to your mind.
But as you know, I am studying medicine, and may not be posting every night, therefore, sorry if couldn't reply to all posts of you, but I will be replying inshallah.
I have read the quran and thought it was very disapointing indeed, from that book Mohammed is no more a phrophet than the weather forecasters. What NEW wisdom is in that book that was not already beautifully written IN ALL LANGAUGES in the HOLY BIBLE???
Why for 23 years of so called Revleations from GOD is it such a small and very repetieive book?
What did Mohammed actually Phropecise?
Why when the HOLY BIBLE is a complete history of this universe and eternity would we need more information?
I don't expect any serious answers from you as no Muslim has been able to answer these questions since I read your book 3 .5 years ago with any credibility.
The quaran has the check to call Jesus son of Mary when the Bible makes clear Jesus never called her mother.
your book also denies that Jesus died on the Cross and by willingly doing this cleaned us of our sins as Phrophecised in may parts of the OT and your book does not acknowledge that God Loves us and wants to save us aLL
God bless you to know the Truth in JesuS mighty name
Amen
KSnyder, you think that all people are thinking like you! Be assured, true Muslim girls never date. My sister never talked to a males except doctors, father, uncles and brothers! "Sexual" thinking is not found in the vocabulary of Muslims. One of the topics I will put about Islam inshallah will talk about how people developed the idea of "Muslims" being womanizers, which is totally delivered incorrectly to your mind.
But as you know, I am studying medicine, and may not be posting every night, therefore, sorry if couldn't reply to all posts of you, but I will be replying inshallah.
I have read the quran and thought it was very disapointing indeed, from that book Mohammed is no more a phrophet than the weather forecasters. What NEW wisdom is in that book that was not already beautifully written IN ALL LANGAUGES in the HOLY BIBLE???
Why for 23 years of so called Revleations from GOD is it such a small and very repetieive book?
What did Mohammed actually Phropecise?
Why when the HOLY BIBLE is a complete history of this universe and eternity would we need more information?
I don't expect any serious answers from you as no Muslim has been able to answer these questions since I read your book 3 .5 years ago with any credibility.
The quaran has the check to call Jesus son of Mary when the Bible makes clear Jesus never called her mother.
your book also denies that Jesus died on the Cross and by willingly doing this cleaned us of our sins as Phrophecised in may parts of the OT and your book does not acknowledge that God Loves us and wants to save us aLL
God bless you to know the Truth in JesuS mighty name
Amen
Is Jesus peaceful?
freethinkingthuthseeker;1321885 wrote: I have read the quran and thought it was very disapointing indeed, from that book Mohammed is no more a phrophet than the weather forecasters. What NEW wisdom is in that book that was not already beautifully written IN ALL LANGAUGES in the HOLY BIBLE???
Why for 23 years of so called Revleations from GOD is it such a small and very repetieive book?
What did Mohammed actually Phropecise?
Why when the HOLY BIBLE is a complete history of this universe and eternity would we need more information?
I don't expect any serious answers from you as no Muslim has been able to answer these questions since I read your book 3 .5 years ago with any credibility.
The quaran has the check to call Jesus son of Mary when the Bible makes clear Jesus never called her mother.
your book also denies that Jesus died on the Cross and by willingly doing this cleaned us of our sins as Phrophecised in may parts of the OT and your book does not acknowledge that God Loves us and wants to save us aLL
God bless you to know the Truth in JesuS mighty name
Amen
Try doing a google for "Mary, mother of Jesus" - all of the hits are from Christian sites so how is the Quran showing cheek by saying the same thing? Ask any Catholic - it's a central tenet of their faith.
Then try reading the Quran as a believer, not as one indoctrinated in another religion. To a Hindu, for example, the Bible would appear as a contradictory folk history of a minor tribe in the Middle East but I'm sure they'd be far too polite to say so.
Why for 23 years of so called Revleations from GOD is it such a small and very repetieive book?
What did Mohammed actually Phropecise?
Why when the HOLY BIBLE is a complete history of this universe and eternity would we need more information?
I don't expect any serious answers from you as no Muslim has been able to answer these questions since I read your book 3 .5 years ago with any credibility.
The quaran has the check to call Jesus son of Mary when the Bible makes clear Jesus never called her mother.
your book also denies that Jesus died on the Cross and by willingly doing this cleaned us of our sins as Phrophecised in may parts of the OT and your book does not acknowledge that God Loves us and wants to save us aLL
God bless you to know the Truth in JesuS mighty name
Amen
Try doing a google for "Mary, mother of Jesus" - all of the hits are from Christian sites so how is the Quran showing cheek by saying the same thing? Ask any Catholic - it's a central tenet of their faith.
Then try reading the Quran as a believer, not as one indoctrinated in another religion. To a Hindu, for example, the Bible would appear as a contradictory folk history of a minor tribe in the Middle East but I'm sure they'd be far too polite to say so.
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freethinkingthuthseeker
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Is Jesus peaceful?
Bryn Mawr;1321896 wrote: Try doing a google for "Mary, mother of Jesus" - all of the hits are from Christian sites so how is the Quran showing cheek by saying the same thing? Ask any Catholic - it's a central tenet of their faith.
Then try reading the Quran as a believer, not as one indoctrinated in another religion. To a Hindu, for example, the Bible would appear as a contradictory folk history of a minor tribe in the Middle East but I'm sure they'd be far too polite to say so.
I beieve I made cleaar to you long ago I am not catholic indeed not religious at all but I do have an amaziing two way spiritual relationshipship with God everyday, of xcouse all these people think they know thew truth but does God talk to them?
The devil is very busy in this world and this eternity my friend beware and be hungry for truth and God will show his Love for you too!
Then try reading the Quran as a believer, not as one indoctrinated in another religion. To a Hindu, for example, the Bible would appear as a contradictory folk history of a minor tribe in the Middle East but I'm sure they'd be far too polite to say so.
I beieve I made cleaar to you long ago I am not catholic indeed not religious at all but I do have an amaziing two way spiritual relationshipship with God everyday, of xcouse all these people think they know thew truth but does God talk to them?
The devil is very busy in this world and this eternity my friend beware and be hungry for truth and God will show his Love for you too!
Is Jesus peaceful?
freethinkingthuthseeker;1321901 wrote: I beieve I made cleaar to you long ago I am not catholic indeed not religious at all but I do have an amaziing two way spiritual relationshipship with God everyday, of xcouse all these people think they know thew truth but does God talk to them?
The devil is very busy in this world and this eternity my friend beware and be hungry for truth and God will show his Love for you too!
How on Earth did my post suggest that you might be a Catholic?
The devil is very busy in this world and this eternity my friend beware and be hungry for truth and God will show his Love for you too!
How on Earth did my post suggest that you might be a Catholic?
Is Jesus peaceful?
Does God talk to you? If so how? Not being condescending just wondering the semantics of it. If God talks to you, is it in a male voice, female voice, english speaking in sentences, or maybe through pictures or visions emanating into your conscious. I know ,my conscious speaks to me on occasions, does God put thought into our conscious and then it speaks to us or is our conscious where God dwells in people?
Is Jesus peaceful?
Pardon my injection of a thought-------------All religions believe there is SIN---All religions believe there is punishment for SINS-----All religions have their own way of interpreting what is a SIN and who SINNED against whom and it is this interpretation that leads to violence or less than peaceful actions.
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freethinkingthuthseeker
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Is Jesus peaceful?
Bryn Mawr;1321903 wrote: How on Earth did my post suggest that you might be a Catholic?
hello again been very busy elsewhere
the point is not about me being catholic but that mainstream catholics are not spititual, nowhere in the Bible does Jesus refer to Mary as "mother" rather as "woman" and on the cross states to John "behold your mother"
blessyou
hello again been very busy elsewhere
the point is not about me being catholic but that mainstream catholics are not spititual, nowhere in the Bible does Jesus refer to Mary as "mother" rather as "woman" and on the cross states to John "behold your mother"
blessyou
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freethinkingthuthseeker
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- Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:22 pm
Is Jesus peaceful?
Lon;1321953 wrote: Pardon my injection of a thought-------------All religions believe there is SIN---All religions believe there is punishment for SINS-----All religions have their own way of interpreting what is a SIN and who SINNED against whom and it is this interpretation that leads to violence or less than peaceful actions.
interesting when i was debating with a muslim at a busstop a few months ago and he could npot answer the contradiction of the quran he became very angry and stated 2 how dare you insult my holy book" he then went to punch me with a very angry look but when his nand connected with my face it was just the mildest touch alkmost a caress but his face was still vexed highly, i turned the other cheek to him and he simply walked away.
The miracle of early Christianity is that it grew prenominally frpom just over 500 people at Jesus death and ressurection and the subsequent pentecost to 1000's wqithin 30 years of his death in a very hositle jewish / pagan world without any violence from the Chtristians merely by the preaching of the word with the holy spirit.
the violent christain crusades were centuries later when spiritual understanding amongst the leaders was lacking
interesting when i was debating with a muslim at a busstop a few months ago and he could npot answer the contradiction of the quran he became very angry and stated 2 how dare you insult my holy book" he then went to punch me with a very angry look but when his nand connected with my face it was just the mildest touch alkmost a caress but his face was still vexed highly, i turned the other cheek to him and he simply walked away.
The miracle of early Christianity is that it grew prenominally frpom just over 500 people at Jesus death and ressurection and the subsequent pentecost to 1000's wqithin 30 years of his death in a very hositle jewish / pagan world without any violence from the Chtristians merely by the preaching of the word with the holy spirit.
the violent christain crusades were centuries later when spiritual understanding amongst the leaders was lacking
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fuzzywuzzy
- Posts: 6596
- Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:35 pm
Is Jesus peaceful?
That's why I like the Jw's they are true christian pacifists. By the way the op interpretation of the sword etc is totally wrong.
Is Jesus peaceful?
The Jesus I know is peaceful, his English is a little shaky however.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Is Jesus peaceful?
fuzzywuzzy;1338735 wrote: That's why I like the Jw's they are true christian pacifists. By the way the op interpretation of the sword etc is totally wrong.
I once inadvertently turned on my garden hose just as some JW's were coming up the drive - it was a complete accident the tap was inside the house so I hadn't realised anyone was there. In some circumstances they are not entirely pacific and they lack a sense of humour. In all the discussions I have had about religion the only one who has ever taken a swing at me was a jehovah's witness after I made a joke about the bible. In my experience fundamentalist christians are also prone to violence, they are certainly not averse top outright intimidation.
Did jesus not drive out the moneylenders from the temple? At the very least that would suggest he could be violent if warranted and also that he must have been a fairly intimidating individual, a capenter would have been fairly fit and used to manual labour. He lived in a violent age I can't imagine the moneylenders wouldno have been capable of violence themselves.
I once inadvertently turned on my garden hose just as some JW's were coming up the drive - it was a complete accident the tap was inside the house so I hadn't realised anyone was there. In some circumstances they are not entirely pacific and they lack a sense of humour. In all the discussions I have had about religion the only one who has ever taken a swing at me was a jehovah's witness after I made a joke about the bible. In my experience fundamentalist christians are also prone to violence, they are certainly not averse top outright intimidation.
Did jesus not drive out the moneylenders from the temple? At the very least that would suggest he could be violent if warranted and also that he must have been a fairly intimidating individual, a capenter would have been fairly fit and used to manual labour. He lived in a violent age I can't imagine the moneylenders wouldno have been capable of violence themselves.
Is Jesus peaceful?
gmc;1338783 wrote: Did jesus not drive out the moneylenders from the temple? At the very least that would suggest he could be violent if warranted and also that he must have been a fairly intimidating individual, a capenter would have been fairly fit and used to manual labour. He lived in a violent age I can't imagine the moneylenders wouldno have been capable of violence themselves.
Personal violence was prohibited under Mosaic Law, as well as under Roman Law. There can be no doubt that Jesus would have been rapidly placed under arrest had he struck any person in the well-policed Temple area. The whip he made was for the hides of the cattle on sale, and was anyway of light construction, formed probably from the rushes used for bedding.
The significance is that, rather than use his hands, Jesus used a scourge, which would have reminded the Jews of Isaiah 28:15-16:
'You have said..."When the purifying scourge passes through, it will not come to us, because we have made lies our refuge, and in falsehood we have taken shelter." Therefore, says the Lord God, "See, I am laying in Zion* for a foundation a stone, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone**, for a sure foundation."'
That foundation they would have considered to be the one with the purifying scourge.
*The name 'Zion' originally signified the very Temple area in which this occurred. It had grown to stand for Jerusalem, and then the whole nation of Israel, so this action had much potential for prophetic fulfilment in the minds of onlookers.
** The common method of building was to lay a perfect, tested stone at a corner, and align the rest of the building with that one; a theme that Peter later took up with respect to the church in one of his letters.
Personal violence was prohibited under Mosaic Law, as well as under Roman Law. There can be no doubt that Jesus would have been rapidly placed under arrest had he struck any person in the well-policed Temple area. The whip he made was for the hides of the cattle on sale, and was anyway of light construction, formed probably from the rushes used for bedding.
The significance is that, rather than use his hands, Jesus used a scourge, which would have reminded the Jews of Isaiah 28:15-16:
'You have said..."When the purifying scourge passes through, it will not come to us, because we have made lies our refuge, and in falsehood we have taken shelter." Therefore, says the Lord God, "See, I am laying in Zion* for a foundation a stone, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone**, for a sure foundation."'
That foundation they would have considered to be the one with the purifying scourge.
*The name 'Zion' originally signified the very Temple area in which this occurred. It had grown to stand for Jerusalem, and then the whole nation of Israel, so this action had much potential for prophetic fulfilment in the minds of onlookers.
** The common method of building was to lay a perfect, tested stone at a corner, and align the rest of the building with that one; a theme that Peter later took up with respect to the church in one of his letters.
Is Jesus peaceful?
Jesus is well known for his use of hyperbole and exaggeration to make a point. By and large Jesus was a non-violent resistor but could exercise righteous anger against those misusing the temple (church). BTW it was not the money changers that it was against but the temple authorities who were misusing their faith and their position for personal gain. The money changer were exercising a very important role and were no in the temple proper. They were supplying the money and the animals for sacrifice. One could not expect a farmer to walk for days with a lamb on his shoulders. This exercise was a courtesy and did of course make the folks some money but we all need that to live.
Shalom
Ted
Shalom
Ted
Is Jesus peaceful?
Ted;1339586 wrote: Jesus is well known for his use of hyperbole and exaggeration to make a point.
Can we see an example?
Can we see an example?
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fuzzywuzzy
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Is Jesus peaceful?
gmc;1338783 wrote: I once inadvertently turned on my garden hose just as some JW's were coming up the drive - it was a complete accident the tap was inside the house so I hadn't realised anyone was there. In some circumstances they are not entirely pacific and they lack a sense of humour. In all the discussions I have had about religion the only one who has ever taken a swing at me was a jehovah's witness after I made a joke about the bible. In my experience fundamentalist christians are also prone to violence, they are certainly not averse top outright intimidation.
Did jesus not drive out the moneylenders from the temple? At the very least that would suggest he could be violent if warranted and also that he must have been a fairly intimidating individual, a capenter would have been fairly fit and used to manual labour.
He lived in a violent age I can't imagine the moneylenders wouldno have been capable of violence themselves.
Well I can tell you that is not in anyway shape of form acceptable behaviour from a 'pioneer' did you report him to the local Kingdom hall? If you had there would have been an immediate apology. That is not the way they are to conduct themselves. I offer no excuse for his behaviour.
As for being a violent age ....if you look at the news it was no more violent then as it is now. But I know where you're coming from here. Gallileans were known to carry swords with them at all times. Jesus stood out because he didn't .....but if you read the new testament you'll find right up to the end of jesus life his deciples did. Hence his retort to Peter of "those who live by the sword die by the sword." But swords and knives were also tools for the average male. (like carrying around a swiss army knife today )
Driving out hte moneylenders etc. (basically retailers, they sold offerings for temple use which was a violation of the Mosaic Law. Jesus indignation of this is that the temple authorities (those who were in charge of keeping the temple rights and conditions pure) allowed this practice to happen . And Jesus often referred to them as Hypocrits for all manner of resaons.
Now if you were to find drug addicts doing deals and prostitution outside the steps of your local church would you not be indignant of their behaviour and audacity? The priest of that church would go nuts or a member of it's congregation........Now would we blame them thier indignation? I certainly wouldn't . Now if you are one who doesn't think people should get all worked up over religious temples and churches and mosques let me give you a secular example of indignant anger. What if a group of pedophiles wanting their rights to be pedophiiles chose the local childrens hospital to voice their opinion? How long do you think they would last? And would you blame those who removed those people in a violent manner? YOu can imagine the indignation of those people. You can imagine the very core of their disgust. And in this way we have to understand the way Jesus felt about the moneylenders who preyed on the poor and made them feel they had to buy there way into heaven.....arent you disgusted by the way televangilists tell people to send in money so they will be prayed for ? I am. and I'm sure Jesus is too.
Jesus doesn't need money his word should be and is supposed to be free. he says it himself . "you recieved freely now go and give freely"
there are so many ways to look at the example Jesus set at the temple and it's not about 'what' ...but 'why'.....and we still see the behaviour of those doing bad in the name of Jesus even today. Would the money lenders have been violent towards Jesus? Nope! Because everyone knows while you're getting away with a good thing you do and if you have the backing of those in charge you'll keep doing it .....until of course a whistleblower comes along and blows them all out of the water. Again we see this type of cuircumstance today. Instead of seeing Jesus behaviour that day and in that time as a violent act we should see it as an example of the reasoning behind it. What was going on at the time .....Why did he do it? What in gods name (excuse the pun) would drive him to do it. And the most important part of all is when you see something wrong in peoples actions and draw everyones attention to it ....they can't arrest you, they can't make you out to be the bad guy, because all you've done is exposed corruption.
Well that's my two cents worth.
Did jesus not drive out the moneylenders from the temple? At the very least that would suggest he could be violent if warranted and also that he must have been a fairly intimidating individual, a capenter would have been fairly fit and used to manual labour.
He lived in a violent age I can't imagine the moneylenders wouldno have been capable of violence themselves.
Well I can tell you that is not in anyway shape of form acceptable behaviour from a 'pioneer' did you report him to the local Kingdom hall? If you had there would have been an immediate apology. That is not the way they are to conduct themselves. I offer no excuse for his behaviour.
As for being a violent age ....if you look at the news it was no more violent then as it is now. But I know where you're coming from here. Gallileans were known to carry swords with them at all times. Jesus stood out because he didn't .....but if you read the new testament you'll find right up to the end of jesus life his deciples did. Hence his retort to Peter of "those who live by the sword die by the sword." But swords and knives were also tools for the average male. (like carrying around a swiss army knife today )
Driving out hte moneylenders etc. (basically retailers, they sold offerings for temple use which was a violation of the Mosaic Law. Jesus indignation of this is that the temple authorities (those who were in charge of keeping the temple rights and conditions pure) allowed this practice to happen . And Jesus often referred to them as Hypocrits for all manner of resaons.
Now if you were to find drug addicts doing deals and prostitution outside the steps of your local church would you not be indignant of their behaviour and audacity? The priest of that church would go nuts or a member of it's congregation........Now would we blame them thier indignation? I certainly wouldn't . Now if you are one who doesn't think people should get all worked up over religious temples and churches and mosques let me give you a secular example of indignant anger. What if a group of pedophiles wanting their rights to be pedophiiles chose the local childrens hospital to voice their opinion? How long do you think they would last? And would you blame those who removed those people in a violent manner? YOu can imagine the indignation of those people. You can imagine the very core of their disgust. And in this way we have to understand the way Jesus felt about the moneylenders who preyed on the poor and made them feel they had to buy there way into heaven.....arent you disgusted by the way televangilists tell people to send in money so they will be prayed for ? I am. and I'm sure Jesus is too.
Jesus doesn't need money his word should be and is supposed to be free. he says it himself . "you recieved freely now go and give freely"
there are so many ways to look at the example Jesus set at the temple and it's not about 'what' ...but 'why'.....and we still see the behaviour of those doing bad in the name of Jesus even today. Would the money lenders have been violent towards Jesus? Nope! Because everyone knows while you're getting away with a good thing you do and if you have the backing of those in charge you'll keep doing it .....until of course a whistleblower comes along and blows them all out of the water. Again we see this type of cuircumstance today. Instead of seeing Jesus behaviour that day and in that time as a violent act we should see it as an example of the reasoning behind it. What was going on at the time .....Why did he do it? What in gods name (excuse the pun) would drive him to do it. And the most important part of all is when you see something wrong in peoples actions and draw everyones attention to it ....they can't arrest you, they can't make you out to be the bad guy, because all you've done is exposed corruption.
Well that's my two cents worth.
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fuzzywuzzy
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- Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:35 pm
Is Jesus peaceful?
Ted;1339586 wrote: Jesus is well known for his use of hyperbole and exaggeration to make a point. By and large Jesus was a non-violent resistor but could exercise righteous anger against those misusing the temple (church). BTW it was not the money changers that it was against but the temple authorities who were misusing their faith and their position for personal gain. The money changer were exercising a very important role and were no in the temple proper. They were supplying the money and the animals for sacrifice. One could not expect a farmer to walk for days with a lamb on his shoulders. This exercise was a courtesy and did of course make the folks some money but we all need that to live.
Shalom
Ted
That is incorrect Ted . Actually farmers (shepards) were used to carrying sacrificail animals over their shoulders. And they weren't 'made' to carry animals, there was a (supposedly) reasonable expectation of each to their own in terms of offerings. Jesus mother herself was not a rich woman and could only afford doves/pigeons. Which was perfectly fine . The moneylenders were there to offer the best offerings and would offer credit after the big sell of convincing those that wanted to impress with finer gifts. Hence Jesus parable of the old poor woman who gave the least in the eyes of the people but gave much in the eye's of god. ( I'm going to assume you are calling his parables hyperbole)
This exercise was a courtesy and did of course make the folks some money but we all need that to live.
Then why was Jesus so angry if it was just a curtesy? And why try to make money (to live) off the shoulders of God?
Shalom
Ted
That is incorrect Ted . Actually farmers (shepards) were used to carrying sacrificail animals over their shoulders. And they weren't 'made' to carry animals, there was a (supposedly) reasonable expectation of each to their own in terms of offerings. Jesus mother herself was not a rich woman and could only afford doves/pigeons. Which was perfectly fine . The moneylenders were there to offer the best offerings and would offer credit after the big sell of convincing those that wanted to impress with finer gifts. Hence Jesus parable of the old poor woman who gave the least in the eyes of the people but gave much in the eye's of god. ( I'm going to assume you are calling his parables hyperbole)
This exercise was a courtesy and did of course make the folks some money but we all need that to live.
Then why was Jesus so angry if it was just a curtesy? And why try to make money (to live) off the shoulders of God?
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fuzzywuzzy
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Is Jesus peaceful?
Okay I've been thinking of this thread and Yes I'm Indignant!!!! It really shits me when people turn the bible upside down and even lie about it.
Well, can we read together Luke 19:
26: for I say to you, that to every one having shall be given, and from him not having, also what he hath shall be taken from him
27: but those my enemies, who did not wish me to reign over them, bring hither and slay before me
My question: why didn't Jesus forgive his enemies? Isn't he peaceful? You want more?
Matthew 10:
34: Ye may not suppose that I came to put peace on the earth; I did not come to put peace, but a sword
35: for I came to set a man at variance against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law
36: and the enemies of a man are those of his household
????????????
I'll use a little poetic lisence here though.
Okay !!! Luke 19 in a nut shell explains that a man (tax collector) wanted to meet Jesus when he came to Jericho. But being a short man and because of the crowds he had to climb a tree to see what was happening. (his name was Zacchaeus) Jesus told him to come down from the tree because he would lodge with him overnight. The bloke is estatic. The crowd on the other hand is a bit put out that he would lodge, what was in their eyes an utter barstard. But Zacchaeus says in front of everyone, Look mate I'm giving half of all my belongings to the poor, and anyone I ripped off I'll give back fourfold. Jesus then says what he says often "I've come to save what was lost." So this dude is doing the big turn around...now you have to understand about what this crowd was expecting including Zacchaeus. Luke 11. They all thought he was going to display a somewhat awsome power but instead he gave this illustration. About a bloke who comes into a country and gives his slaves minas and to display their savvy by making the one minas into many. Meanwhile ambassadors of that country go out to these slaves and try to convince them that this man shouldn't be King over them . Anyway the slaves come back one with ten minas and is rewarded with ten cities. the second 5 minas and is given five cities but the third comes back and says I'm so afraid of you that I kept the minas safe and here I give it back to you . Plus he adds You don't belong here you idd not sow the seeds so why should you reap the profits? And the bloke says OI!!! you idiot why would you be afraid of me? Because you listened to those ambassadors and their lies? So the bloke says you're an idiot now give your minas to the one who made ten.
then he says 26: for I say to you, that to every one having shall be given, and from him not having, also what he hath shall be taken from him
27: but those my enemies, who did not wish me to reign over them, bring hither and slay before me He's talking about the ambassadors who spread the lies and were afraid of losing their positions of power over the people.
Jesus was not talking about himself but God. He is illustrating a circumstance not wishful thinking. So another words if you're put in a position of power over people (ie: priest Rabbi Iman) and you don't do your job and listen to the political powers that be, who are only afraid of losing their power then you jolly well better lift your game!!!
Also the muttering of the people in the crowd would be listening to the lies and rumours of the pharisees and sudecees and when Jesus decides to go to the home of a tax collector they Mutter amongst themselves probably thinking the stories are true ...as the last slave did in the illustration.
There is much to read into this illustration but to fatly say he was not peaceful because the King in his illustration says the word slaughter is just perverse.
Now the next one
34: Ye may not suppose that I came to put peace on the earth; I did not come to put peace, but a sword
35: for I came to set a man at variance against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law
Okay.............. What the hell would happen if an Islamic girl in an islamic country decided to ditch Islam and become a christian? Tell me what would happen to her!!!! You say that christians arent killed in Islamic countries ......Okay . If I came to your house and spoke with your sister about my religion and she thought hey I like that I think I'll become a christain .....What would happen to me? What would happen to your sister? What do you reckon happened back then for a family member to begin following Jesus reasoning? Now if the whole family began to see jesus reasoning who would be against them then? Neighbours, other relatives etc. I know this because I've experienced it . People are fine if you go with the flow . But when there is a change in you or you change your ways then of course people believe you've been sucked in or there is something wrong with you . That's just human behaviour and of which Jesus points out. He came to divide the goats from the lambs. At Mat 10 he is talking to his diciples. How to be "cautious as serpents but innocent as doves" He is explaining to them what they are to expect after giving them the authority to perform miracles and how to deal with it . And you'll notice he tells them to keep away from all but the house of Israel. He explains that "he who has greater affection for his mother than of me is not worthy of me."
And to continue with chapter ten, He explains to them and coaches them. and your mention of verses plucked out of nowhere just goes to show how little you know about reading the true facts and who Jesus is speaking and referring to at he time he says things.
Well, can we read together Luke 19:
26: for I say to you, that to every one having shall be given, and from him not having, also what he hath shall be taken from him
27: but those my enemies, who did not wish me to reign over them, bring hither and slay before me
My question: why didn't Jesus forgive his enemies? Isn't he peaceful? You want more?
Matthew 10:
34: Ye may not suppose that I came to put peace on the earth; I did not come to put peace, but a sword
35: for I came to set a man at variance against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law
36: and the enemies of a man are those of his household
????????????
I'll use a little poetic lisence here though.
Okay !!! Luke 19 in a nut shell explains that a man (tax collector) wanted to meet Jesus when he came to Jericho. But being a short man and because of the crowds he had to climb a tree to see what was happening. (his name was Zacchaeus) Jesus told him to come down from the tree because he would lodge with him overnight. The bloke is estatic. The crowd on the other hand is a bit put out that he would lodge, what was in their eyes an utter barstard. But Zacchaeus says in front of everyone, Look mate I'm giving half of all my belongings to the poor, and anyone I ripped off I'll give back fourfold. Jesus then says what he says often "I've come to save what was lost." So this dude is doing the big turn around...now you have to understand about what this crowd was expecting including Zacchaeus. Luke 11. They all thought he was going to display a somewhat awsome power but instead he gave this illustration. About a bloke who comes into a country and gives his slaves minas and to display their savvy by making the one minas into many. Meanwhile ambassadors of that country go out to these slaves and try to convince them that this man shouldn't be King over them . Anyway the slaves come back one with ten minas and is rewarded with ten cities. the second 5 minas and is given five cities but the third comes back and says I'm so afraid of you that I kept the minas safe and here I give it back to you . Plus he adds You don't belong here you idd not sow the seeds so why should you reap the profits? And the bloke says OI!!! you idiot why would you be afraid of me? Because you listened to those ambassadors and their lies? So the bloke says you're an idiot now give your minas to the one who made ten.
then he says 26: for I say to you, that to every one having shall be given, and from him not having, also what he hath shall be taken from him
27: but those my enemies, who did not wish me to reign over them, bring hither and slay before me He's talking about the ambassadors who spread the lies and were afraid of losing their positions of power over the people.
Jesus was not talking about himself but God. He is illustrating a circumstance not wishful thinking. So another words if you're put in a position of power over people (ie: priest Rabbi Iman) and you don't do your job and listen to the political powers that be, who are only afraid of losing their power then you jolly well better lift your game!!!
Also the muttering of the people in the crowd would be listening to the lies and rumours of the pharisees and sudecees and when Jesus decides to go to the home of a tax collector they Mutter amongst themselves probably thinking the stories are true ...as the last slave did in the illustration.
There is much to read into this illustration but to fatly say he was not peaceful because the King in his illustration says the word slaughter is just perverse.
Now the next one
34: Ye may not suppose that I came to put peace on the earth; I did not come to put peace, but a sword
35: for I came to set a man at variance against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law
Okay.............. What the hell would happen if an Islamic girl in an islamic country decided to ditch Islam and become a christian? Tell me what would happen to her!!!! You say that christians arent killed in Islamic countries ......Okay . If I came to your house and spoke with your sister about my religion and she thought hey I like that I think I'll become a christain .....What would happen to me? What would happen to your sister? What do you reckon happened back then for a family member to begin following Jesus reasoning? Now if the whole family began to see jesus reasoning who would be against them then? Neighbours, other relatives etc. I know this because I've experienced it . People are fine if you go with the flow . But when there is a change in you or you change your ways then of course people believe you've been sucked in or there is something wrong with you . That's just human behaviour and of which Jesus points out. He came to divide the goats from the lambs. At Mat 10 he is talking to his diciples. How to be "cautious as serpents but innocent as doves" He is explaining to them what they are to expect after giving them the authority to perform miracles and how to deal with it . And you'll notice he tells them to keep away from all but the house of Israel. He explains that "he who has greater affection for his mother than of me is not worthy of me."
And to continue with chapter ten, He explains to them and coaches them. and your mention of verses plucked out of nowhere just goes to show how little you know about reading the true facts and who Jesus is speaking and referring to at he time he says things.
Is Jesus peaceful?
Christianity dies either from poison or suffocation.