Looks like the treaty to be presented at Copenhagen has been scooped, surprise surprise, it is not about climate, it's nothing but a backdoor world socialist government document aimed at bringing about "economic equality" by taking the western economies down to 3rd-world status.
If implemented, forget about Canada ever running a budget surplus again. The full text is available as a 2 megabyte, 181 page pdf document at
http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com...nhagen-2009.pdf
Some contest: Page 62
36. All Parties, except for the least developed countries and small island developing States, shall develop and regularly update and submit a national inventory of anthropogenic emissions by sources and removals by sinks of all gases not controlled by the Montreal Protocol.
Page 122
17. [[Developed [and developing] countries] [Developed and developing
country Parties] [All Parties] [shall] [should]:]
(a) Compensate for damage to the LDCs' economy and also compensate for lost opportunities, resources, lives, land and dignity, as many will become environmental refugees;
b. Africa, in the context of environmental justice, should be equitably compensated for environmental, social and economic losses arising from the implementation of response measures.
No mention of how we should be able to come up with the money, to do so is a given that we will be in a depression. If we sign on to it, kiss economic recovery good-bye.
Copenhagen Climate Treaty - Screw the West
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freetobeme
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Copenhagen Climate Treaty - Screw the West
senior's politics and discussion
Copenhagen Climate Treaty - Screw the West
What is it about the reality that if we destroy our environment economic recovery will be the least of your worries you find difficulty in grasping?
It's not tin pot theories about world socialism you should worry about. What kind of idiot still falls for that one?
It's not tin pot theories about world socialism you should worry about. What kind of idiot still falls for that one?
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freetobeme
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Copenhagen Climate Treaty - Screw the West
gmc;1249074 wrote: What is it about the reality that if we destroy our environment economic recovery will be the least of your worries you find difficulty in grasping?
It's not tin pot theories about world socialism you should worry about. What kind of idiot still falls for that one?
Nothing we do will stop the earth`s changes, we can clean up our act and reduce the population (not likely though), but that will not stop the earth cycling. Destroying the west`s economies with tin pot schemes to redistribute the wealth won`t help anything, it`ll make things worse.
The only place the world is getting warmer is in the Arctic. Everywhere else the Earth's temperature is dropping, heck if global warming continues, we`ll freeze to death LOL ICECAP
This is Poland's response
"Quite frankly, from our point of view it's totally unacceptable that the poor countries of Europe should help the rich countries of Europe to help the poor countries in the rest of the world," said Polish Finance Minister Jan Rostowski.
Poland refuses to pay poorer nations' climate tab — EUbusiness.com - business, legal and economic news and information from the European Union
BTW, both of these clauses were inserted in the original Kyoto Protocol by European bureaucrats who hijacked the final IPCC process, but there has always been a large political agenda ready to monopolize the discourse.
The second clause was designed specifically to cripple the USA. The main factor for Clinton's refusal to get on board was that the penalties were "to be specified later", and guess what, fifteen years later those "penalties" for exceeding 1990 emissions have still not been identified.
George Bush similarly avoided "the trap", whilst Al Gore was less than forthright to Americans et al re: the Kyoto deficiencies.
It's not tin pot theories about world socialism you should worry about. What kind of idiot still falls for that one?
Nothing we do will stop the earth`s changes, we can clean up our act and reduce the population (not likely though), but that will not stop the earth cycling. Destroying the west`s economies with tin pot schemes to redistribute the wealth won`t help anything, it`ll make things worse.
The only place the world is getting warmer is in the Arctic. Everywhere else the Earth's temperature is dropping, heck if global warming continues, we`ll freeze to death LOL ICECAP
This is Poland's response
"Quite frankly, from our point of view it's totally unacceptable that the poor countries of Europe should help the rich countries of Europe to help the poor countries in the rest of the world," said Polish Finance Minister Jan Rostowski.
Poland refuses to pay poorer nations' climate tab — EUbusiness.com - business, legal and economic news and information from the European Union
BTW, both of these clauses were inserted in the original Kyoto Protocol by European bureaucrats who hijacked the final IPCC process, but there has always been a large political agenda ready to monopolize the discourse.
The second clause was designed specifically to cripple the USA. The main factor for Clinton's refusal to get on board was that the penalties were "to be specified later", and guess what, fifteen years later those "penalties" for exceeding 1990 emissions have still not been identified.
George Bush similarly avoided "the trap", whilst Al Gore was less than forthright to Americans et al re: the Kyoto deficiencies.
senior's politics and discussion
Copenhagen Climate Treaty - Screw the West
Nothing we do will stop the earth`s changes, we can clean up our act and reduce the population (not likely though), but that will not stop the earth cycling. Destroying the west`s economies with tin pot schemes to redistribute the wealth won`t help anything, it`ll make things worse.
So you think we shouldn't try accept is all as inevitable and just give up? Why is opponents to trying to do doing anything about it always spout these daft theories about world socialism? It's pig ignorant, shows a lack of understanding and is just plain silly. It's classic let's not discuss the problem objectively and instead attack the one bringing it up.
We're all in the **** together.
So you think we shouldn't try accept is all as inevitable and just give up? Why is opponents to trying to do doing anything about it always spout these daft theories about world socialism? It's pig ignorant, shows a lack of understanding and is just plain silly. It's classic let's not discuss the problem objectively and instead attack the one bringing it up.
We're all in the **** together.
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freetobeme
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Copenhagen Climate Treaty - Screw the West
gmc;1249332 wrote: So you think we shouldn't try accept is all as inevitable and just give up? Why is opponents to trying to do doing anything about it always spout these daft theories about world socialism? It's pig ignorant, shows a lack of understanding and is just plain silly. It's classic let's not discuss the problem objectively and instead attack the one bringing it up.
We're all in the **** together.
Gee, I dunno why is people against it - talk about pig ignorant
We're all in the **** together.
Gee, I dunno why is people against it - talk about pig ignorant
senior's politics and discussion
Copenhagen Climate Treaty - Screw the West
freetobeme;1249511 wrote: Gee, I dunno why is people against it - talk about pig ignorant
You don't think "Destroying the west`s economies with tin pot schemes to redistribute the wealth" will reduce demand and consumption then? I'd rather been hoping it might.
You don't think "Destroying the west`s economies with tin pot schemes to redistribute the wealth" will reduce demand and consumption then? I'd rather been hoping it might.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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freetobeme
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Copenhagen Climate Treaty - Screw the West
spot;1249568 wrote: You don't think "Destroying the west`s economies with tin pot schemes to redistribute the wealth" will reduce demand and consumption then? I'd rather been hoping it might.
Destroying the economies, would destroy civilization, you don't want to be around when that happens.
All these schemes do is give countries such as China & United Arab Emirates a license to continue pumping carbon into the atmosphere while restricting the emissions of the U.S. Face it, these 'developing nations' are now responsible for much faster emissions growth than the U.S.
Nothing we do will have an affect on climate change, while we should of course clean up our act, we should be looking at strategies to adapt. Earth has always changed and always cycled, it always will until the sun dies out.
We actually are in a downward temperatures trend as more scientists are speaking out against the so-called consensus belief that man-made carbon dioxide is causing global warming, there as beenno warming since 2002, while CO2 levels continue to rise.
Destroying the economies, would destroy civilization, you don't want to be around when that happens.
All these schemes do is give countries such as China & United Arab Emirates a license to continue pumping carbon into the atmosphere while restricting the emissions of the U.S. Face it, these 'developing nations' are now responsible for much faster emissions growth than the U.S.
Nothing we do will have an affect on climate change, while we should of course clean up our act, we should be looking at strategies to adapt. Earth has always changed and always cycled, it always will until the sun dies out.
We actually are in a downward temperatures trend as more scientists are speaking out against the so-called consensus belief that man-made carbon dioxide is causing global warming, there as beenno warming since 2002, while CO2 levels continue to rise.
senior's politics and discussion
Copenhagen Climate Treaty - Screw the West
freetobeme;1249898 wrote: All these schemes do is give countries such as China & United Arab Emirates a license to continue pumping carbon into the atmosphere while restricting the emissions of the U.S.
You know, if that's all these schemes do then I strongly recommend the U.S. refuse to sign up to any of them.
Alternatively, if you're mistaken, then that's all you are. And, I venture to suggest, mistaken owing to ingrained bias.
Meanwhile, if we can all collectively manage to reduce demand and consumption please? To something more approximating sanity? I don't need it, you don't need it, Mrs Trellis most certainly doesn't need it, the Malls are packed full of so much of it, all of it total shoddy dreck. Enough already. Stop selling. Stop buying.
You know, if that's all these schemes do then I strongly recommend the U.S. refuse to sign up to any of them.
Alternatively, if you're mistaken, then that's all you are. And, I venture to suggest, mistaken owing to ingrained bias.
Meanwhile, if we can all collectively manage to reduce demand and consumption please? To something more approximating sanity? I don't need it, you don't need it, Mrs Trellis most certainly doesn't need it, the Malls are packed full of so much of it, all of it total shoddy dreck. Enough already. Stop selling. Stop buying.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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freetobeme
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Copenhagen Climate Treaty - Screw the West
I doubt that they will sign it and hopefully Canada will not.
Here's a piece today
Kevin Libin: Copenhagen plan could wreck global economy - Full Comment
With Copenhagen, however, there is no hidden agenda: its authors say that transferring wealth is exactly what they aim to do.
cont...
Here's a piece today
Kevin Libin: Copenhagen plan could wreck global economy - Full Comment
With Copenhagen, however, there is no hidden agenda: its authors say that transferring wealth is exactly what they aim to do.
cont...
senior's politics and discussion
Copenhagen Climate Treaty - Screw the West
freetobeme;1250590 wrote: I doubt that they will sign it and hopefully Canada will not.
Here's a piece today
Kevin Libin: Copenhagen plan could wreck global economy - Full Comment
With Copenhagen, however, there is no hidden agenda: its authors say that transferring wealth is exactly what they aim to do.
cont...
Having a few people or countries accumulate all the wealth is not exactly a long term strategy that is likely to succeed. It never has been and never will but those doing the accumulating are very good at persuading themselves that it is.
It is incidentally not good capitalism to allow monopolies or cartels to develop you need to take measures to prevent that happening it's that failure to regulate that has led to the economic meltdown we are now seeing.
Here's a piece today
Kevin Libin: Copenhagen plan could wreck global economy - Full Comment
With Copenhagen, however, there is no hidden agenda: its authors say that transferring wealth is exactly what they aim to do.
cont...
Having a few people or countries accumulate all the wealth is not exactly a long term strategy that is likely to succeed. It never has been and never will but those doing the accumulating are very good at persuading themselves that it is.
It is incidentally not good capitalism to allow monopolies or cartels to develop you need to take measures to prevent that happening it's that failure to regulate that has led to the economic meltdown we are now seeing.
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Clodhopper
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Copenhagen Climate Treaty - Screw the West
Face it, these 'developing nations' are now responsible for much faster emissions growth than the U.S.
Growth, yes. But the US produces a far, far greater total amount, and it is the total amount of emissions that has to be cut. And cut fast. We have less than 90 months to sort it or the results will be catastophic, involving (amongst other things) loss of food growing land and mass migrations. The death toll will be in the billions.
Agreed that no-one knows for sure what the effects will be - it is possible that climate change will lead to an ice age, but the scientific consensus is that the most likely result is a 3-5 degree Celsius average warming of the climate.
Either result is a horror beyond my ability to express it.
Growth, yes. But the US produces a far, far greater total amount, and it is the total amount of emissions that has to be cut. And cut fast. We have less than 90 months to sort it or the results will be catastophic, involving (amongst other things) loss of food growing land and mass migrations. The death toll will be in the billions.
Agreed that no-one knows for sure what the effects will be - it is possible that climate change will lead to an ice age, but the scientific consensus is that the most likely result is a 3-5 degree Celsius average warming of the climate.
Either result is a horror beyond my ability to express it.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
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globalwarmingdebunked
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Copenhagen Climate Treaty - Screw the West
:yh_rotfl Global warming is a political myth. More and more scientist world wide are proving this, but people had rather listen to politicians with ulterior motives.
The Copenhagen Treaty would leash the US to an unelected government who would control our economy. Wake up and smell the coffee. This would mean a complete economic crash here in the states. I am all for good stewardship of the earth, as it is our home, but we do not need to bind the US to something we can not get out of & will cost us billions. In case you have not noticed, we are already in a recession.
Keep the UN out of our business & economic development. We already send millions over seas, when we have homeless & starving families here!!!! Keep closing manufacturing plants here, and America the Great will be HISTORY. Our economy is tanking now, if we sign the Copenhagen Agreement, we will be a destitute 3rd world country ourselves!
The Copenhagen Treaty would leash the US to an unelected government who would control our economy. Wake up and smell the coffee. This would mean a complete economic crash here in the states. I am all for good stewardship of the earth, as it is our home, but we do not need to bind the US to something we can not get out of & will cost us billions. In case you have not noticed, we are already in a recession.
Keep the UN out of our business & economic development. We already send millions over seas, when we have homeless & starving families here!!!! Keep closing manufacturing plants here, and America the Great will be HISTORY. Our economy is tanking now, if we sign the Copenhagen Agreement, we will be a destitute 3rd world country ourselves!
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globalwarmingdebunked
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Copenhagen Climate Treaty - Screw the West
P.S. Just in case you have not been listening to the news for say....the last year, we are already in debt to China. I believe they are quiet developed and no longer "a developing country". The United Arab Emirates already shaft us big time on oil prices b/c we are too blinded by the myth of Global Warming to use new technology, which is environmentally friendly, to drill for OUR OWN OIL!
And the bull about Carbon Dioxide emissions killing the world. Did any of you take a science class since photosynthesis was discovered? Plants use carbon dioxide as food to grow and produce and give off oxygen, which humans use. Amazing concept.
And the bull about Carbon Dioxide emissions killing the world. Did any of you take a science class since photosynthesis was discovered? Plants use carbon dioxide as food to grow and produce and give off oxygen, which humans use. Amazing concept.
Copenhagen Climate Treaty - Screw the West
globalwarmingdebunked;1256557 wrote: P.S. Just in case you have not been listening to the news for say....the last year, we are already in debt to China. I believe they are quiet developed and no longer "a developing country". The United Arab Emirates already shaft us big time on oil prices b/c we are too blinded by the myth of Global Warming to use new technology, which is environmentally friendly, to drill for OUR OWN OIL!
And the bull about Carbon Dioxide emissions killing the world. Did any of you take a science class since photosynthesis was discovered? Plants use carbon dioxide as food to grow and produce and give off oxygen, which humans use. Amazing concept.
Did any of you take a science class since photosynthesis was discovered? Plants use carbon dioxide as food to grow and produce and give off oxygen, which humans use. Amazing concept.
It's not the UN or some ludicrous socialist conspiracy that put you in debt to china or allows you to be shafted on oil prices that's your own fault and no one else's. Mybe if you built more economical cars you might not be so worried about the price of oil. It's a finite resource whether you choose to believe it or not.
Did any of you take a science class since photosynthesis was discovered? Plants use carbon dioxide as food to grow and produce and give off oxygen, which humans use. Amazing concept.
Maybe you should do some reading up in deforestation and the use of fossil fuels before you come out with comments like that. But hey don't bother you woild probably think it all nonsense anyway.
Why don't you just stop trading with the rest of the world if you are so convinced everybody is trying to wreck your economy. Be self sufficient don't import anything including oil and see how you get on without the rest of the world. You could maybe trade with the south american countries but they would be in a far stronger position economically than you so that should be interesting. It would be good for the rest of the world, commodity prices would fall with the decrease in demand, oil prices would fall and the stranglehold the middle east has on the world economy would be loosened. We'd very soon find new trade links with china russia and the EU economies benefiting. Without the American dominated world bank we might get some sensible policies in africa that mean they can feed their own people instead of growing cash crops to pay back the interest on loans they should perhaps never have been given. You'd have to find somewhere for your military though and maybe think about downsizing-with no strategic interests abroad what do you need them for and no one is going to have any reason to invade you are they? Maybe just keep the nuclear weapons in case iran attacks
Just don't come bleating for a handout when your economy goes down the toilet and you're all starving when you're genetically modified crops fail big time and it finally dawns on you that maybe environmentalists had a point after all.
Yeah that would be fine-an isolationist America refusing to trade with anyone and you would have no one to blame but yourselves-go for it.
And the bull about Carbon Dioxide emissions killing the world. Did any of you take a science class since photosynthesis was discovered? Plants use carbon dioxide as food to grow and produce and give off oxygen, which humans use. Amazing concept.
Did any of you take a science class since photosynthesis was discovered? Plants use carbon dioxide as food to grow and produce and give off oxygen, which humans use. Amazing concept.
It's not the UN or some ludicrous socialist conspiracy that put you in debt to china or allows you to be shafted on oil prices that's your own fault and no one else's. Mybe if you built more economical cars you might not be so worried about the price of oil. It's a finite resource whether you choose to believe it or not.
Did any of you take a science class since photosynthesis was discovered? Plants use carbon dioxide as food to grow and produce and give off oxygen, which humans use. Amazing concept.
Maybe you should do some reading up in deforestation and the use of fossil fuels before you come out with comments like that. But hey don't bother you woild probably think it all nonsense anyway.
Why don't you just stop trading with the rest of the world if you are so convinced everybody is trying to wreck your economy. Be self sufficient don't import anything including oil and see how you get on without the rest of the world. You could maybe trade with the south american countries but they would be in a far stronger position economically than you so that should be interesting. It would be good for the rest of the world, commodity prices would fall with the decrease in demand, oil prices would fall and the stranglehold the middle east has on the world economy would be loosened. We'd very soon find new trade links with china russia and the EU economies benefiting. Without the American dominated world bank we might get some sensible policies in africa that mean they can feed their own people instead of growing cash crops to pay back the interest on loans they should perhaps never have been given. You'd have to find somewhere for your military though and maybe think about downsizing-with no strategic interests abroad what do you need them for and no one is going to have any reason to invade you are they? Maybe just keep the nuclear weapons in case iran attacks
Just don't come bleating for a handout when your economy goes down the toilet and you're all starving when you're genetically modified crops fail big time and it finally dawns on you that maybe environmentalists had a point after all.
Yeah that would be fine-an isolationist America refusing to trade with anyone and you would have no one to blame but yourselves-go for it.
Copenhagen Climate Treaty - Screw the West
globalwarmingdebunked;1256554 wrote: :yh_rotfl Global warming is a political myth. More and more scientist world wide are proving this, but people had rather listen to politicians with ulterior motives.
Any evidence to back this up - Peer Reviewed papers or the like, not polemics by transistor designers in right wing websites.
The vast majority of "scientists" in fields related to the subject are adamant that global warming is a proven phenomenon.
Any evidence to back this up - Peer Reviewed papers or the like, not polemics by transistor designers in right wing websites.
The vast majority of "scientists" in fields related to the subject are adamant that global warming is a proven phenomenon.