More School, Less Summer?

cars · Post by **cars** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:50 am

Prez Obama wants to extend the current USA school year and shorten summer vacation time.

Wanting to do this in an effort to help prepare our children to be able to compete in a Global market when they grow up. Most if not all other country's schooling time is longer then in the USA. Thus, seemingly giving them an advantage over USA youngsters. It was said, "our school year is based upon the agrarian economy, and not too many of our school kids are working in the fields today".

I happen to agree with the prez on this one, although many teachers & or students may not be happy campers if this comes to pass.

What say you?

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:45 am

Yes, I saw that announcement. I didn't hear about federal funding to pay the teachers for the extra time.....:rolleyes:

I don't think most people realize, as a teacher, I work several hours each night on work related activities: grading, preparing lessons, reports to fill out. Not payable overtime, but we do it for love of teaching. (I am sure Kathy and AC would agree with this, that is where we disappear to, when weekday evenings happen and we don't show up here, we are working!)

To extend the school day, they will need to increase the number of teachers. I have no more spare hours in the day to do what I do, I usually am working until 9 or later each evening-watch TV, sit in a LazyBoy-I gave that up 19 years ago when I started to teach. I know I don't have the extra time for an extended day.

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:57 am

Like all Obama's ideas, they look good on paper. Obama can't present a workable plan to pay for his ideas, unfortunately.

lovejoy · Post by **lovejoy** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:22 am

The british cabinet take 3 months summer break, this should be cut to three weeks, they can hardly claim to be exhausted since they don't do anything anyway.

I agree that kids school holidays should be trimmed a bit.

cars · Post by **cars** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:45 am

chonsigirl;1247224 wrote: Yes, I saw that announcement. I didn't hear about federal funding to pay the teachers for the extra time.....:rolleyes:

I don't think most people realize, as a teacher, I work several hours each night on work related activities: grading, preparing lessons, reports to fill out. Not payable overtime, but we do it for love of teaching. (I am sure Kathy and AC would agree with this, that is where we disappear to, when weekday evenings happen and we don't show up here, we are working!)

To extend the school day, they will need to increase the number of teachers. I have no more spare hours in the day to do what I do, I usually am working until 9 or later each evening-watch TV, sit in a LazyBoy-I gave that up 19 years ago when I started to teach. I know I don't have the extra time for an extended day.
I hear you chonsi, & I feel for you and all the teachers. I don't think anyone, teachers or students want an "extended school day", nor do I believe it fair!

However, shorting the "Summer vacation Time" seems plausible.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:50 am

It's plausible, but they would have to make salary adjustments-we cannot work for free for an extra month or two. We have to live too.

cars · Post by **cars** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:04 am

chonsigirl;1247274 wrote: It's plausible, but they would have to make salary adjustments-we cannot work for free for an extra month or two. We have to live too.
Absolutely right, "No one", including the Prez works for free!!! Everyone has to put bread on the table! Money talks, no body walks! Longer work year, must equal corresponding compensation.

(Except for volunteers, bless them)

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:45 am

chonsigirl;1247274 wrote: It's plausible, but they would have to make salary adjustments-we cannot work for free for an extra month or two. We have to live too.

Ignoramus question - do they not pay teachers during holiday time at all? Are you expected to get a second job to pay the bills?

If so, that is disgraceful.

For reference, schools here have three terms of eleven to fourteen weeks each with a one week mid term break (thirty eight weeks teaching time all told). Two weeks off between terms with a six week summer break - how does that compare to America?

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:53 am

Bryn Mawr;1247586 wrote: Ignoramus question - do they not pay teachers during holiday time at all? Are you expected to get a second job to pay the bills?

If so, that is disgraceful.

For reference, schools here have three terms of eleven to fourteen weeks each with a one week mid term break (thirty eight weeks teaching time all told). Two weeks off between terms with a six week summer break - how does that compare to America?

Not Ignoramus, good question. Most school districts pro rate the pay through the entire year.

About the thread, I think it is wanted so the Gov. can indoctrinate the kiddies more thoroughly, 9 months is just not enough time ta get er done....

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:34 pm

There is some opposition inside the Whitehouse also..

Obama's own daughters want him to produce a valid birth certificate if this goes through.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:23 pm

Bryn Mawr;1247586 wrote: Ignoramus question - do they not pay teachers during holiday time at all? Are you expected to get a second job to pay the bills?

If so, that is disgraceful.

For reference, schools here have three terms of eleven to fourteen weeks each with a one week mid term break (thirty eight weeks teaching time all told). Two weeks off between terms with a six week summer break - how does that compare to America?

Yes, I always have a second and sometimes a third job to pay the bills.

The timing is about the same, what is the length of the school day?

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:32 pm

BTS;1247587 wrote: Not Ignoramus, good question. Most school districts pro rate the pay through the entire year.

About the thread, I think it is wanted so the Gov. can indoctrinate the kiddies more thoroughly, 9 months is just not enough time ta get er done....

Is it that they pro-rata the pay and give a low rate throughout the year to tide the teachers over the holiday or do they pay the going rate for the job with the pay during the break covering set-up and preparation?

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:36 pm

They usually pay teachers an annual salary-for set amount of hours. Pre-set up, that's our free time we give. Things like an afterschool program, it may be funded, maybe not. 50-50 if you are paid.

Some teachers have the option of lower pay throughout the year to receive 12 month salaries. I put mine in a credit union, I actually have more money in the summer-no nurse and all-and spend it for the luxuries I don't get in the school year.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:44 pm

chonsigirl;1247610 wrote: Yes, I always have a second and sometimes a third job to pay the bills.

The timing is about the same, what is the length of the school day?

Shorter now than in my day :wah:

Start at 08:45 and end at 15:45 with ?an hour? for lunch.

A quick search has thrown up :-

I thought it'd be interesting to compare working conditions in different countries - I'm sure it'd be helpful to anyone thinking of moving abroad and trying to choose where to go. Does anyone want to contribute if I start us off?

Country - England

Pay - £28,582 annually/ £2382 a month (my 5th year of teaching), of which a bit more than a third is taken out for tax, national insurance, pension & student loan repayments. To relate it to cost of living, my 3 bed house costs £550 a month & I spend £200 a month on petrol (I live 30 miles from my school).

Hours at school - pupils there 8.40am-3pm. I'm there from 8am & usually leave around 4pm-4.30pm.

Time spent working at home - 1-2 hours a night on average and 4 hours at a weekend. More than this during exam & coursework periods.

Holidays - 2 weeks for Christmas & Easter, 1 week for half term in Feb, May & Oct and 6 weeks in summer

Class sizes - usually between 20-30 pupils

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:55 pm

chonsigirl;1247615 wrote: They usually pay teachers an annual salary-for set amount of hours. Pre-set up, that's our free time we give. Things like an afterschool program, it may be funded, maybe not. 50-50 if you are paid.

Some teachers have the option of lower pay throughout the year to receive 12 month salaries. I put mine in a credit union, I actually have more money in the summer-no nurse and all-and spend it for the luxuries I don't get in the school year.

Thank you.

That sounds strange to British ears - the days when we had to pay into a "holiday pay" pool to cover time not in work have long gone. Salary is paid throughout the year regardless of whether you are at work or on holiday, usually monthly based on an hourly rate for "office" workers with overtime until you reach a managerial level. Holidays are paid at hourly rate x contracted hours - i.e. basic pay.

Given that, I would agree with you - if they are increasing your workload and you are in a fixed price arrangement then that agreement should be re-negotiated.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:58 pm

I am a morning person, I get to school about 6:45, class starts at 8, ends at 2:37, I stay until 3-4 most days.

Class size-25-30 students. (that is for secondary teachers)

Yup, work at home 1-3 hours/night, 5-6 hours a weekend.

Holidays-1 week winter, 1 week spring, 9-10 weeks summer.

Pay-that ranges according to degrees. I get $68,000/year for a doctorate, 19+ years of teaching. You only get $1,000 more a year for a PhD, doesn't mean much to public schools. (it is actually a liability for me, due to age and my level on the pay scale, they would want me to retire, but I can't for 6+ more years after this one.)

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:07 pm

chonsigirl;1247625 wrote: I am a morning person, I get to school about 6:45, class starts at 8, ends at 2:37, I stay until 3-4 most days.

Class size-25-30 students. (that is for secondary teachers)

Yup, work at home 1-3 hours/night, 5-6 hours a weekend.

Holidays-1 week winter, 1 week spring, 9-10 weeks summer.

Pay-that ranges according to degrees. I get $68,000/year for a doctorate, 19+ years of teaching. You only get $1,000 more a year for a PhD, doesn't mean much to public schools. (it is actually a liability for me, due to age and my level on the pay scale, they would want me to retire, but I can't for 6+ more years after this one.)

OK, 20 min more for the kids and 30 min more for you

You work more time at home and slightly more term time.

On the plus side, 50% more pay (but on significantly more experience).

Sounds fairly comparable to me but I'm not a teacher.

cars · Post by **cars** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:09 pm

Teachers & as well as Nurses here in USA are "grossly underpaid!!! (For the magnititude of responsibility for their life changing/saving positions)

(Those in charge should be ashamed!)

Omni_Skittles · Post by **Omni_Skittles** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:49 pm

I AGREE!!!!! in fact who cares about holidays, cut those out too... AND instead of starting at 8 why not 7 and end at 7 that'll help the work a holic parent's... No sports either... just full studying... Kids will eventually get used to it... i like the idea!!!!

cars · Post by **cars** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:11 pm

Omni_Skittles;1247670 wrote: I AGREE!!!!! in fact who cares about holidays, cut those out too... AND instead of starting at 8 why not 7 and end at 7 that'll help the work a holic parent's... No sports either... just full studying... Kids will eventually get used to it... i like the idea!!!!

Well actually lenghtening the school day would really be a hardship on many, Teachers, Students, & parents. So it would be better for most to shorten the long summer vacation. Maybe have just a week off, instead of current 6 to 8 weeks.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:13 pm

:-1 What a horrid thought, no summer vacation! That's for year round schools-which have a very iffy success rate. In my state, the year round schools are not working out very well.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:36 pm

chonsigirl;1247674 wrote: :-1 What a horrid thought, no summer vacation! That's for year round schools-which have a very iffy success rate. In my state, the year round schools are not working out very well.

Kids need a break - just like we do.

As to whether teachers need a break from the kids?

cars · Post by **cars** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:21 am

chonsigirl;1247674 wrote: :-1 What a horrid thought, no summer vacation! That's for year round schools-which have a very iffy success rate. In my state, the year round schools are not working out very well.
According to the Prez, our children who eventually will seek employment in the future global marketplace, will find that they will be at a disadvantage competing against their global counterparts! Counterparts that have more honed "Skill levels" from spending more time in school.

Therefore, he's trying to level the playing field, by increasing our children's education time.

For those teachers who still want the summer off, possibly substitute teachers could fill in full time during that period. And for those teachers who would like to earn a little more, then they would have the opportunitity to do so.

Omni_Skittles · Post by **Omni_Skittles** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:01 pm

cars;1247673 wrote: Well actually lenghtening the school day would really be a hardship on many, Teachers, Students, & parents. So it would be better for most to shorten the long summer vacation. Maybe have just a week off, instead of current 6 to 8 weeks.Kids are bored during the summer anyways... However i don't think this should apply to college kids... We need money, And in order to get money we have to work during those summers... and i worked at an amusement park where kids went to hang out during their boring summers....

cars · Post by **cars** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:32 pm

Omni_Skittles;1247850 wrote: Kids are bored during the summer anyways... However i don't think this should apply to college kids... We need money, And in order to get money we have to work during those summers... and i worked at an amusement park where kids went to hang out during their boring summers....

That's a tough one OS, college years are usually ending your learning period. And when finished, that's when you will be thrown into the wonderful world of job hunting . At that point, you don't want to find out that you're underqualified against your global counterparts!

It would be intresting to hear how students from other countries handle that problem. Anyone?