Scotland vs the FBI. This should be fun.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:56 pm

In his letter to Scottish Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill, FBI Director Robert Mueller wrote: "Your action in releasing Megrahi is as inexplicable as it is detrimental to the cause of justice. Indeed your action makes a mockery of the rule of law.

"Your action gives comfort to terrorists around the world."

You have given those who sought to assure that the persons responsible would be held accountable the back of your hand

Robert Mueller

Letter from Robert Mueller

Strong words from FBI

Mr Mueller added that the Scottish decision made a mockery of the emotions "of all those affected by the Lockerbie tragedy".

The FBI director said he was outraged by the move, and criticised Mr MacAskill for failing to consult "partners in the investigation and prosecution of those responsible for the Lockerbie tragedy".

He wrote: "You have given those who sought to assure that the persons responsible would be held accountable the back of your hand. You have given Megrahi a 'jubilant welcome' in Tripoli, according to the reporting."

London under pressure

Mr Mueller was previously a justice department lawyer leading the investigation into the 1988 bombing.

His letter is also being sent to families of the Lockerbie victims.

Megrahi received a jubilant welcome in Tripoli on Thursday

A Scottish Government spokesman said the minister had made the right decision for the "right reasons" on the basis of due process, clear evidence, and recommendations from the parole board and prison governor.

He said: "Compassionate release is not part of the US justice system but it is part of Scotland's.

"Mr MacAskill could not have consulted more widely - he spoke with the US families, the US Attorney General, Secretary of State Clinton and many others.

Mr MacAskill said there was no reason to deny Megrahi compassion

"The US authorities indicated that although they were opposed to both prisoner transfer and compassionate release, they made it clear that they regarded compassionate release as far preferable to the transfer agreement, and Mr Mueller should be aware of that."

The spokesman said that Mr Mueller should also be aware that while many families have opposed Mr MacAskill's decision many others have supported it.

Meanwhile the British government has come under pressure over allegations that it had a role in the release.

After Megrahi's return, the Libyan leader's son Saif al-Islam Gaddafi said the decision had been linked to trade ties with the UK.

The Scottish government can take decisions independently of London on justice matters but not foreign affairs.

British Business Secretary Peter Mandelson categorically denied that a deal had been struck with Libya or that it had had any role in the move.

Taken from BBC website. Link to full article below:

BBC NEWS | UK | Scotland | FBI boss attacks Megrahi release

I'm just wondering....have the FBI dealt with the Scots much?:wah:

Seriously, I personally reckon the Scots have done the right thing. I appreciate that Mueller is playing to some bereaved families and some parts of wider public opinion on both sides of the Atlantic but I prefer mercy with my justice. The man's going to die soon.

Regarding the allegation about the Business Secretary: Hard to see the SNP agreeing to any deal with Mandelson...but you never know.

If the Scots are going to let Megrahi go, is Mandelson wrong to take a chance to benefit British Business?

How is the Union working at the moment?

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:01 pm

I long for the days when Ronald Reagan was prez. That plane may very well have been met by a couple American fighter planes.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:15 pm

Hee heee heeee throw this Mueller bloke into a glaswegian bar and stand outside and wait:yh_rotfl

but seriously I'm not happy about this compassionate grounds thing but if you're no threat then you're no threat. It's about the crime not politics

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:24 pm

Pancreatic cancer. Why waste good bullets? Moral high ground firmly taken and the FBI are running straight into the trap as far as I can see. Not the ones the trap was set for I suspect, but if you set a trap you can't complain when something unexpected falls in.

I thought the minister was making a point about how democracies in general and the Scottish people's democracy in particular were morally superior to merciless totalitarian states. And the FBI blunder in shouting, "No! No! Kill them all!"

Um...:rolleyes:

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:28 pm

Butter it up any way you want. The dirtbag didn't deserve freedom.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:41 pm

Heaven forfend we all got what we deserved!

I'm also rabbiting on about this because you are watching the British Constitution evolving: the British Government is affected by decisions a Scottish minister answering to a Scottish parliament has made. Is this acceptable? Yes, in my view. If the Union is to work we need give and take. Let's see how it goes.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:44 pm

Clodhopper;1233465 wrote: Pancreatic cancer. Why waste good bullets? Moral high ground firmly taken and the FBI are running straight into the trap as far as I can see. Not the ones the trap was set for I suspect, but if you set a trap you can't complain when something unexpected falls in.

I thought the minister was making a point about how democracies in general and the Scottish people's democracy in particular were morally superior to merciless totalitarian states. And the FBI blunder in shouting, "No! No! Kill them all!"

Um...:rolleyes:The FBI would know what's going on behind the scenes .....they are obligated to kick up a bit of a fuss on behalf of their government

You know, it's "we don't really care" stuff but it wouldn't be right not to protest a little

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:55 pm

Yeah, I think so. Chuckle. I suppose the overall effect is "good cop/ bad cop".

Politically good for the British government to show it is capable of going against American wishes. More cynically, it is possible that this noise was arranged over a nothing issue that will soon go away.

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:13 pm

Yeah, it took attention away from Obama's dwindling support for awhile.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:15 pm

The release of the Lockerbie bomber has damaged the reputation of Scotland across the globe, former Labour first minister Jack McConnell has warned.

He condemned the move and said it must be made clear it was not done in the name of the Scottish people.

Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi was freed from Greenock prison on Thursday to be allowed home to Libya to die.

A Scottish government spokesman said the decision had been reached "on the basis of due process" and "evidence".

The bomber's release - and the hero's welcome he was given on return to Libya - provoked anger from many relatives of those who died aboard Pan-Am flight 103, particularly in the US.

BBC NEWS | UK | Scotland | South of Scotland | Bomber release 'damages Scotland'

The plot thickens.

Victoria · Post by **Victoria** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:40 am

Moral highground?

Pity they didnt think about morals when the US refused to extidite 4 convicted IRA men to Britian back in the 1980's..... what goes round comes round.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:37 am

Clodhopper;1233470 wrote: Heaven forfend we all got what we deserved!

I'm also rabbiting on about this because you are watching the British Constitution evolving: the British Government is affected by decisions a Scottish minister answering to a Scottish parliament has made. Is this acceptable? Yes, in my view. If the Union is to work we need give and take. Let's see how it goes.

Scotland has a separate judicial system from the english one. There are significant differences-and not just in house buying either. Maybe the judges should have brought in a not proven verdict that would really have got everybody puzzled. perhaps it might have been the fairer one at that. What is startling is that a supposedly christian country like the states cannot understand the meaning of the word compassion

Mr Al Megrahi did not show his victims any comfort or compassion. They were not allowed to return to the bosom of their families to see out their lives, let alone their dying days. No compassion was shown by him to them.

"But that alone is not a reason for us to deny compassion to him and his family in his final days.

"Our justice system demands that judgment be imposed but compassion be available.

"Our beliefs dictate that justice be served, but mercy be shown.

"Compassion and mercy are about upholding the beliefs that we seek to live by, remaining true to our values as a people. No matter the severity of the provocation or the atrocity perpetrated.

I'm not a christian but i would love one of them to try and tell me why this is not a christian act? If it is a christian act why do they find it so offensive? The guy will be dead soon. He has not been set free or pardoned but in the context of scots law releasing someone on compassionate grounds is allowed.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 6:57 am

I'm not a christian but i would love one of them to try and tell me why this is not a christian act? If it is a christian act why do they find it so offensive? The guy will be dead soon. He has not been set free or pardoned but in the context of scots law releasing someone on compassionate grounds is allowed.

I don't get it either. American Christianity has always been hellfire and brimstone - maybe that has something to do with it. (Quakers excepted)

Chookie · Post by **Chookie** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:58 pm

Clodhopper;1233540 wrote: I don't get it either. American Christianity has always been hellfire and brimstone - maybe that has something to do with it. (Quakers excepted)
As far as I know (hearsay only) that isn't Christianity - that's fundamentalist bullshit which is common to all the Abrahamics.

Post by **spot** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:20 pm

hoppy;1233458 wrote: I long for the days when Ronald Reagan was prez. That plane may very well have been met by a couple American fighter planes.

That's the chap whose White House Administration managed to kill President Gaddafi's daughter with an air strike? I don't recall he impressed world opinion with that sort of "violation of the Charter of the United Nations and of international law". The quote's from United Nations General Assembly Resolution 41/38 which condemned the attack.

What the world needs most is a total end to US intervention abroad. Slap-happy US presidents like Ronald Reagan are the bane of civilization.

mikeinie · Post by **mikeinie** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:24 pm

that murdering b@stard went home to a heros welcome. He should have died a slow and painful death in prison.

Post by **spot** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:26 pm

mikeinie;1233654 wrote: that murdering b@stard went home to a heros welcome. He should have died a slow and painful death in prison.

So the Christian interpretation of compassion just doesn't ring your chimes at all, Mike?

Victoria · Post by **Victoria** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 11:44 pm

Consortiumnews.com

People in glass houses and all that?

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:39 pm

mikeinie;1233654 wrote: that murdering b@stard went home to a heros welcome. He should have died a slow and painful death in prison.

Hi, do i know you?

Bit surprised by that statement.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:47 pm

I think one of the things Scotland (and England) have got right is the concept of mercy. Whatever whatsisname has done, his family were not guilty, and they get to see him before he dies. I'm not against that. I don't know if it has happened, but I wouldn't be against it for PIRA or Loyalist murderers either. On the other hand Brady and Hindley should be left behind bars until they die. If anyone can help me with the logic of this position, I'd be grateful!

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:11 pm

Is it because it was children they killed?

Post by **pantoandy** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:46 pm

quote by clodhopper

Seriously, I personally reckon the Scots have done the right thing. I appreciate that Mueller is playing to some bereaved families and some parts of wider public opinion on both sides of the Atlantic but I prefer mercy with my justice. The man's going to die soon.

now listen here clothopper are you raving mad ???

this man took 240 lives by blowing up a pan am jumbo jet

240 INNOCENT MEN WOMEN AND CHILDRENS LIVES AND YOU ASK MERCY AND COMPASSION !!!!!!

the only thing this scum deserved was to be executed for his crime.

he should have been extradited to the U.S as it was an american plane he blew up

and he would have fried by now in a texan electric chair.

its hand wringing do gooders like you we can do without

its the hand wring bleating do gooder brigade that have got the country in this mess with the soft option.

i hope his death is a painfull one like the lives he took and that he answers to a higher authority when he does finally go the fact he came home to a hero,s welcome makes my skin crawl.

:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:50 pm

I may be a hand wringing bleater. It is possible.

240 INNOCENT MEN WOMEN AND CHILDRENS LIVES AND YOU ASK MERCY AND COMPASSION !!!!!!

Well, it wouldn't be mercy and compassion if he hadn't done anything. Mercy is one of the most beautiful things on the planet. Yeah, I'm in favour.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:23 am

pantoandy;1234001 wrote: quote by clodhopper

Seriously, I personally reckon the Scots have done the right thing. I appreciate that Mueller is playing to some bereaved families and some parts of wider public opinion on both sides of the Atlantic but I prefer mercy with my justice. The man's going to die soon.

now listen here clothopper are you raving mad ???

this man took 240 lives by blowing up a pan am jumbo jet

240 INNOCENT MEN WOMEN AND CHILDRENS LIVES AND YOU ASK MERCY AND COMPASSION !!!!!!

the only thing this scum deserved was to be executed for his crime.

he should have been extradited to the U.S as it was an american plane he blew up

and he would have fried by now in a texan electric chair.

its hand wringing do gooders like you we can do without

its the hand wring bleating do gooder brigade that have got the country in this mess with the soft option.

i hope his death is a painfull one like the lives he took and that he answers to a higher authority when he does finally go the fact he came home to a hero,s welcome makes my skin crawl.

:mad::mad::mad::mad:

He was released because he is going to die. That is the only reason. He has not been pardoned or found innocent he was released to die. The only disappointment is that perhaps we might never find out the whole truth of what happened. The key witness is living in australia having received his pay off for his evidence, it is now also apparent hat the US intelligence services withheld information.

But it's all academic now. You can't show mercy to someone who is deserving-that's called justice, mercy or compassion is shown to someone irrespective of what they have done. You're a christian aren't you? what's that bit in the lord's prayer-Forgive us our sins,

as we forgive those who sin against us.

I had to look that up, why do you find the concept of dispassionate release so hard to understand? The sheer bile coming from a supposedly christian country is remarkable.

Post by **pantoandy** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:27 am

gmc;1234078 wrote: He was released because he is going to die. That is the only reason. He has not been pardoned or found innocent he was released to die. The only disappointment is that perhaps we might never find out the whole truth of what happened. The key witness is living in australia having received his pay off for his evidence, it is now also apparent hat the US intelligence services withheld information.

But it's all academic now. You can't show mercy to someone who is deserving-that's called justice, mercy or compassion is shown to someone irrespective of what they have done. You're a christian aren't you? what's that bit in the lord's prayer-

I had to look that up, why do you find the concept of dispassionate release so hard to understand? The sheer bile coming from a supposedly christian country is remarkable.

there should be no mercy for this monster the only mercy he should get is 25,000 volts .

the americans could snatch him back and secretly do the job themselves.

however oil comes in to play here and the american administration are all wind and water this will blow over shortly.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:33 am

pantoandy;1234081 wrote: there should be no mercy for this monster the only mercy he should get is 25,000 volts .

the americans could snatch him back and secretly do the job themselves.

however oil comes in to play here and the american administration are all wind and water this will blow over shortly.

OK so you're not a christian but an eye for an eye bible thumper who misses the point of the new testament and rejects the teachings of the late JC.

We have oil. Do you think they might attack us?:eek: