Do You Own a Gun?

Hope6 · Post by **Hope6** » Sun May 24, 2009 3:44 am

Okay to get back to the original question.......

yes I do own a gun, several in fact, theres no snake around here who stands a chance!

my father taught me to shoot at around the age of 16, and I do tend to agree that a child who knows something of how to treat a gun will probably be less likely to mess up if they run across one because they will have a certain respect for it....but its up to parents to make sure they aren't laying around for them to find.

but lets please have a calm discussion here. :-6

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Sun May 24, 2009 5:25 am

Strange. My doc asked me the same thing once. I told him I didn't come to see him because I shot myself. He said he knew that but was supposed to ask. I said no. He knew I was lieing so he wrote no with a question mark behind it.

So, that's my answer to the original post.

G-man · Post by **G-man** » Sun May 24, 2009 9:54 am

I'm an American. Of course I own a gun! ...a few in fact.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Sun May 24, 2009 10:02 am

must be nice, sure could use a few!:-5:-5

panzermk2 · Post by **panzermk2** » Sun May 24, 2009 4:50 pm

Odie;1193641 wrote: must be nice, sure could use a few!:-5:-5

Soon you may. The billions wasted on Canada's gun registry that has NEVER not ONCE solved a crime is bringing the whole issue back to the forefront.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Sun May 24, 2009 5:05 pm

panzermk2;1193726 wrote: Soon you may. The billions wasted on Canada's gun registry that has NEVER not ONCE solved a crime is bringing the whole issue back to the forefront.

illegal to have guns in Canada, has saved thousands of lives.

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Sun May 24, 2009 8:18 pm

Odie;1193732 wrote: illegal to have guns in Canada, has saved thousands of lives.

For a change I agree with you odie.

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Sun May 24, 2009 8:28 pm

panzermk2;1193491 wrote: Spell check please.

Of course I see your side of the argument. Ignorance is bliss.

She is Seven by the way. And unlike most children know not to pick up guns they find and play them usually ending up with a dead kid because some ignorant jackass had a gun sitting around were an equally ignorant kid could get to it.

1) Stop

2) Do not touch

3) Leave the area

4) Tell an Adult.

No, you never bothered to see "my side" Ignorance is bliss when it falls on the other side of the fence. My son is 7 yrs old also and I would never give him a gun as a prezzie...he's more into watching nature than killing it....we just don't believe in guns...get over it.

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Sun May 24, 2009 8:55 pm

I own a gun in case some drug addicted ass comes into my house. OK maybe it's just someone who wants to rob me. Maybe worse....it's a pervert who wants to rape an old woman.

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Sun May 24, 2009 9:02 pm

nvalleyvee;1193780 wrote: I own a gun in case some drug addicted ass comes into my house. OK maybe it's just someone who wants to rob me. Maybe worse....it's a pervert who wants to rape an old woman.

I would have to agree with peeps who want to own guns mind you. Its quite another thing to introduce guns to children...they should be over the age of 16 yrs old...I don't own a gun and feel very safe living in the area I do...I just found it quite disturbing that the pguy posted pix of his daughter holding a shotgun..she's 7 yrs old....way too young.:-5

Chockygirl · Post by **Chockygirl** » Mon May 25, 2009 1:56 am

Lon;1032528 wrote:

I own a Glock and have a permit for it.

Why on earth would you need to own a Glock?

Is this for protection,or is it just a status symbol?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon May 25, 2009 3:20 am

qsducks;1193784 wrote: I would have to agree with peeps who want to own guns mind you. Its quite another thing to introduce guns to children...they should be over the age of 16 yrs old...I don't own a gun and feel very safe living in the area I do...I just found it quite disturbing that the pguy posted pix of his daughter holding a shotgun..she's 7 yrs old....way too young.:-5
16's way too old. Remember that a 16-year-old is into rebellion and "you can't tell me what to do I'll make my own decisions." The last thing you want is to give that kind of mind his first experience with a gun. Somebody might die. The best time is when the kid is all about respect and trying to please the parents.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon May 25, 2009 4:41 am

nvalleyvee;1193780 wrote: I own a gun in case some drug addicted ass comes into my house. OK maybe it's just someone who wants to rob me. Maybe worse....it's a pervert who wants to rape an old woman.

I agree that you own a gun, as years ago I went to a police station and asked for an application for a firearms..(before they became illegal here)...the Lieutenant was nasty!

He told me, 'just remember, if you shot someone, you will be charged'.

I said to him, so its fine for some ******* to come into my home and do god knows what to me?

He said, lady, if you don't like it here..........move!

******* he was!:-5:-5

Chockygirl · Post by **Chockygirl** » Mon May 25, 2009 5:50 am

buttercup;1032533 wrote: I have no need for a gun, nor would i live somewhere that made me so scared i'd need one.

I reckon that's the best answer.

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Mon May 25, 2009 6:02 am

Absolutely no need for a gun whatsoever. I dont really have any need to lock my doors. My Grandfather left the front door key in the lock of his front door all his life

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon May 25, 2009 8:04 am

Snowfire;1193938 wrote: Absolutely no need for a gun whatsoever. I dont really have any need to lock my doors. My Grandfather left the front door key in the lock of his front door all his life No need for a gun..... a baseball bat works just as well.

Why was your grandfather so forgetfull?

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Mon May 25, 2009 8:25 am

[QUOTE=oscar;1193986]No need for a gun..... a baseball bat works just as well.

QUOTE]

Yup, that's what sitting by my front door.

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Mon May 25, 2009 9:04 am

oscar;1193986 wrote: No need for a gun..... a baseball bat works just as well.

Why was your grandfather so forgetfull?

Not forgetful. It was deliberate, so that anybody could let themselves in. He didnt see any need to lock hinself in or others out. Although I dont leave the key in the door, my back door is always open. Night and day.

No one could climb my creaking stairs at night without waking me. I'd meet them with a smile at the top and then help them to quickly reach the bottom

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Mon May 25, 2009 9:08 am

*handing snowfire my bat*

I'd meet them with a smile at the top and then help them to quickly reach the bottom

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Mon May 25, 2009 10:35 am

Accountable;1193865 wrote: 16's way too old. Remember that a 16-year-old is into rebellion and "you can't tell me what to do I'll make my own decisions." The last thing you want is to give that kind of mind his first experience with a gun. Somebody might die. The best time is when the kid is all about respect and trying to please the parents.

Let me rephrase that statement then...no children under the age of 18 should handle a firearm. IMO, I think it's disgusting to let a small child hold a gun.

oscar;1193986 wrote: No need for a gun..... a baseball bat works just as well.

Why was your grandfather so forgetfull?

I have 3 bats...1 wood & the other two are aluminum and yes, they are right behind the door and next to the big picture window.

Hope6 · Post by **Hope6** » Mon May 25, 2009 1:50 pm

Well guns aren't always about killing, I have a relative who at the age of 14 or 15 was one of the top ranked world champions in junior skeet shooting. He has a roon full of trophy and plaques, and has won a lot of money and was even offered a chance to try out for the Olympics. and is one of the safest people with a gun you'll ever see because he has been well trained.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon May 25, 2009 2:22 pm

qsducks;1194051 wrote:

I have 3 bats...1 wood & the other two are aluminum and yes, they are right behind the door and next to the big picture window. I have another baseball bat tucked behind a tree right by the front gate also just incase. Local police have seen them when they have called at my house and just looked at me and raised an eyebrow. I told one that the bat was my dogs stick :yh_rotfl as it's against the law to have any weapon here at all. Mr O has got a hefty walking stick by the bed also.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon May 25, 2009 3:56 pm

Hope6;1194184 wrote: Well guns aren't always about killing, I have a relative who at the age of 14 or 15 was one of the top ranked world champions in junior skeet shooting. He has a roon full of trophy and plaques, and has won a lot of money and was even offered a chance to try out for the Olympics. and is one of the safest people with a gun you'll ever see because he has been well trained.

your right they are not always for killing.......

awesome for him!:guitarist:guitarist:guitarist

I do keep a baseball bat behind both doors, not sure if I could use them........

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon May 25, 2009 4:13 pm

Guns don't kill people............ the bullets kind of help

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Mon May 25, 2009 4:59 pm

oscar;1194253 wrote: Guns don't kill people............ the bullets kind of help

Yeah big time..love to see a case where someone got shot with a watergun

panzermk2 · Post by **panzermk2** » Mon May 25, 2009 5:55 pm

qsducks;1194264 wrote: Yeah big time..love to see a case where someone got shot with a watergun

oscar;1194253 wrote: Guns don't kill people............ the bullets kind of help

Last time I checked people kill people. The worst murders are governments.

150,000 Tutsi have been killed buy Hutu's. Almost All of them were killed by machete.

I guess knives were only made for killing?

I do like the Sheeple rants though both on the board and the moronic by PM.

Don't worry though when someone breaks into your home and you can't protect your children or your self for that matter you can dial 911 and someone else with one of those "guns" will arrive in time to hopefully save you.

Until then I feel very safe when I leave my home for work knowing my wife, X-Paratrooper, can keep both herself and our children safe without relying on the government to save us or be dependent on that government.

That is the heart of the matter. Most anti gunners look to the government to save them, as sheeple telling everyone it can't happen to them. While most gun owners have taken BACK that responsibility to where it belongs, THEMSELVES.

Guns in the hands of people kill. Bad people kill good people. Good people kill bad people. The gun is a tool to be use like a hammer. Hammers are used to kill more people then guns also. These are facts from the FBI violent crime report.

Soccer moms in minivans chatting on cell phones kill a heck of allot more then both combined but we can't criticize them because those deaths are acceptable so they may maintain and fulfill their lifestyle.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon May 25, 2009 6:00 pm

panzermk2;1194291 wrote:

Soccer moms in minivans chatting on cell phones kill a heck of allot more then both combined but we can't criticize them because those deaths are acceptable so they may maintain and fulfill their lifestyle. Not in Britain....... it is illegal to drive and use your cell phone which will soon include hands free as well. Our courts come down extremely hard on road death when some-one has caused it by using a cell phone. They certainly get jailed.

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Mon May 25, 2009 6:10 pm

Guns in the hands of people kill. Bad people kill good people. Good people kill bad people. The gun is a tool to be use like a hammer. Hammers are used to kill more people then guns also. These are facts from the FBI violent crime report.

Huh? You've just contradicted yourself again. Guns kill people no matter what.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Mon May 25, 2009 6:12 pm

It is illegal in the US as well. Exactly where do you get your statistics on this. Its more like the 18 to 23 year old drivers talking on their CELLS or even worse texting that I see causing accidents and deaths.

Sorry I was a Soccer Mom, Aunt, and I'm now a Soccer Grand Mother. I have never had time to talk on my cell phone nor would I with a car full of kids.

Like I have said forever GUNS have only one purpose and it is to KILL be it animal or human. I will take my chance against someone with a hammer any day instead of a GUN pointed at me.

[QUOTE]Soccer moms in minivans chatting on cell phones kill a heck of allot more then both combined but we can't criticize them because those deaths are acceptable so they may maintain and fulfill their lifestyle.[/QUOTE]

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Mon May 25, 2009 6:19 pm

CARLA;1194298 wrote: It is illegal in the US as well. Exactly where do you get your statistics on this. Its more like the 18 to 23 year old drivers talking on their CELLS or even worse texting that I see causing accidents and deaths.

Sorry I was a Soccer Mom, Aunt, and I'm now a Soccer Grand Mother. I have never had time to talk on my cell phone nor would I with a car full of kids.

Like I have said forever GUNS have only one purpose and it is to KILL be it animal or human. I will take my chance against someone with a hammer any day instead of a GUN pointed at me.

I'm a baseball mom and no I don't chat on the phone while driving...we would get a nice hefty fine if caught. Carla...I have plenty of baseball gear next to the door and the idiot who want to break into my house...have fun...meet the raccoons, possums, etc. who like to roam in the yard. Yes, the world seems scary to some peeps, but hey, we can't all live in some paranoid world where we can't open our windows or our eyes for that matter.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon May 25, 2009 7:13 pm

this is what has helped me, as I can not afford an alarm system and refuse to pay for the sensor system which I would have to have having 4 cats.

I have two huge signs on my front windows. 'BEWARE OF DOG'

I have had 3 people knock on my door (who didn't know me)...they stepped back as soon as I opened the door and said.....

....where is the dog? ..........as they were petrified.

I just said oh he is at the vets today for his grooming.

and it doesn't matter what your neighbors think or know that you do or don't have a dog............

These signs.....really do work.........trust me.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon May 25, 2009 7:49 pm

Odie;1194310 wrote: this is what has helped me, as I can not afford an alarm system and refuse to pay for the sensor system which I would have to have having 4 cats.

I have two huge signs on my front windows. 'BEWARE OF DOG'

I have had 3 people knock on my door (who didn't know me)...they stepped back as soon as I opened the door and said.....

....where is the dog? ..........as they were petrified.

I just said oh he is at the vets today for his grooming.

and it doesn't matter what your neighbors think or know that you do or don't have a dog............

These signs.....really do work.........trust me. Surely, if they have a gun, they would just shoot the dogs if they wanted to get in badly enough? Besides, any one watching a joint for some time would soon realise there is no dog when nothing barks? People are not that dumb if they are determined to get in.

panzermk2 · Post by **panzermk2** » Mon May 25, 2009 8:00 pm

The FBI.

They issue a violent crime report. Takes about three years to compile so this years list the causes of death for three years ago.

The facts are out there and very easy to find. One only needs to look. Of course the Brady bunch publish so much BS it's not funny. A US congressmen quoted their info and stats under oath. Turned out they had made it all up and the Congressman got censured.

Just like more kids are killed riding bikes. It's just more easy to demonize guns then a bike.

How many kids are killed by drunk drivers? Since people drive drunk even though it's illegal and although many more people consume alcohol without breaking any laws wouldn't it just be safer for every body to ban booze?

I have been ran off the road by lane changing soccer moms in mini vans three times. Each time when they decided to look next to them as I swerve off the road that look at me like it's my fault and I just appeared out of thin air to get in their way.

I travel allot and I see everywhere no matter whether it's legal or not people chit chating on phones. Most of them are adult age. You better believe they do it in Canada. I just spent the week in Windsor, (Is highway 2 north of town the crash mecca of Windsor?) a few weeks ago Montreal for a week. I get up there at least once every three months. I travel and drive across north America and Europe on a regular basis. Ohio and Montreal are tied for the worst drivers in the world.

panzermk2 · Post by **panzermk2** » Mon May 25, 2009 8:06 pm

oscar;1194320 wrote: Surely, if they have a gun, they would just shoot the dogs if they wanted to get in badly enough? Besides, any one watching a joint for some time would soon realise there is no dog when nothing barks? People are not that dumb if they are determined to get in.

That's the issue with the non gun types telling you to get a big dog bowel, smash it up and leave it where it can be seen.

With most B&E's the robbers have been casing the house for at least a day. They can figure out you don't have a dog. If you do they just smash it's skull with something. Don't believe me? Ask a cop some time. We have 2 dogs. One of them is a Keeshond. They were bread to be alarm dogs for castle's and manner homes of the Netherlands. Not much fight in them, look like small Huskies. But if a squirrel farts a block away they make sure everyone knows it.

He will alert us to something happening and we will take any further action if needed.

Post by **Sunshine** » Mon May 25, 2009 8:31 pm

ok this is how it is. Some of you approve of guns some of you don't.

The people who don't want one don't have to have one.

The people that do have one or more had just better be very resposible and vigilent about what could happen if they fall into the wrong hands...say a child that is curious.

Quote your statictics and this and that. It really doesn't matter.

The for people will never convince the against people and vise versa.

I am against...always will be no matter what.

I think this subject has been beaten to death and never will be resolved.

Chockygirl · Post by **Chockygirl** » Mon May 25, 2009 11:29 pm

Hope6;1194184 wrote: Well guns aren't always about killing, I have a relative who at the age of 14 or 15 was one of the top ranked world champions in junior skeet shooting. He has a roon full of trophy and plaques, and has won a lot of money and was even offered a chance to try out for the Olympics. and is one of the safest people with a gun you'll ever see because he has been well trained.

I think that is the only positive side of gun ownership for me.

This young person has a completely different mentailty for owning and using a gun-for him it's a skill and he's professionally trained.

Chockygirl · Post by **Chockygirl** » Mon May 25, 2009 11:41 pm

panzermk2;1194291 wrote:

Until then I feel very safe when I leave my home for work knowing my wife, X-Paratrooper, can keep both herself and our children safe without relying on the government to save us or be dependent on that government.

That is the heart of the matter. Most anti gunners look to the government to save them, as sheeple telling everyone it can't happen to them. While most gun owners have taken BACK that responsibility to where it belongs, THEMSELVES.

Guns in the hands of people kill. Bad people kill good people. Good people kill bad people. The gun is a tool to be use like a hammer. Hammers are used to kill more people then guns also. These are facts from the FBI violent crime report.

What a worry it must be for you to live in an area where you have to be over vigilant for your own safety.

Is this usual in the U.S,or do you live in a neighbourhood where crime is rampant?

Whenever I read about yet another school shooting in the U.S,I am reminded as to how easy it is for juveniles to arm themselves.

A knife may kill or injure one person at a time before the assailant is disarmed,but an automatic rifle will wipe out so many people in an instant.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue May 26, 2009 2:35 am

Sunshine;1194325 wrote: I think this subject has been beaten to death and never will be resolved.Should we shoot it to put it out of its misery? :yh_bigsmi

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue May 26, 2009 5:34 am

panzermk2;1194322 wrote: That's the issue with the non gun types telling you to get a big dog bowel, smash it up and leave it where it can be seen.

With most B&E's the robbers have been casing the house for at least a day. They can figure out you don't have a dog. If you do they just smash it's skull with something. Don't believe me? Ask a cop some time. We have 2 dogs. One of them is a Keeshond. They were bread to be alarm dogs for castle's and manner homes of the Netherlands. Not much fight in them, look like small Huskies. But if a squirrel farts a block away they make sure everyone knows it.

He will alert us to something happening and we will take any further action if needed. I believe you. We have had many violent crimes here and with burglerys and robberies, it is very often the dogs who get shot (on rare occasssions as we don't have guns here) or their skulls smashed in..... you are absolutely right, sticking a few signs of dogs in your windows to deter the most determined robber is just futile. As i said to Odie in my previous post, most proffessionals will weigh up a property long before they break in and they are not dumb when they see the signs but no dogs barking...... it's the oldest trick in the book sticking a dog sign in your window but utterley useless if a robber is violent and determined.

I know how you feel..... My 3 dogs can hear a moth farting a mile away..... Too much barking :wah:

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Tue May 26, 2009 6:04 am

people/ burglars are not dumb when it comes to dogs.....

a burglar is not going to come up to a house, with a loud dog barking, break in.......and shot the dog.

it just not that easy, to shot a dog when you also know its going to take your throat out.

-and dogs are much faster than humans

besides it just takes to much time....with a loud dog barking, it would immediately wake up someone in the home.

-here, people do not scout places out first..........

Toronto is is a major city.

its a hit and miss.

perhaps in other towns, countries....this does happen.

Post by **Sunshine** » Tue May 26, 2009 6:23 am

Accountable;1194366 wrote: Should we shoot it to put it out of its misery? :yh_bigsmi

(((Sigh))) no, just let it ramble on. It will soon run out of steam.

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Tue May 26, 2009 9:30 am

Odie;1194438 wrote: people/ burglars are not dumb when it comes to dogs.....

a burglar is not going to come up to a house, with a loud dog barking, break in.......and shot the dog.

it just not that easy, to shot a dog when you also know its going to take your throat out.

-and dogs are much faster than humans

besides it just takes to much time....with a loud dog barking, it would immediately wake up someone in the home.

-here, people do not scout places out first..........

Toronto is is a major city.

its a hit and miss.

perhaps in other towns, countries....this does happen.

And what if the owner of the home is not there? A robber will come into your home and shut that dog up big time. Robbers do case out houses even in big cities...they just don't walk down the street & think, hey I will rob that house today...or oh pooh, I didn't case it...most robberies occur when they've cased your house...they need to know your schedule.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Tue May 26, 2009 9:44 am

well, its never its happened here when no one is home.:rolleyes:

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Tue May 26, 2009 9:54 am

Odie;1194516 wrote: well, its never its happened here when no one is home.:rolleyes:

And you know this?

Oh wait your Horatio Cain right?

Post by **Sunshine** » Tue May 26, 2009 10:17 am

qsducks;1194505 wrote: And what if the owner of the home is not there? A robber will come into your home and shut that dog up big time. Robbers do case out houses even in big cities...they just don't walk down the street & think, hey I will rob that house today...or oh pooh, I didn't case it...most robberies occur when they've cased your house...they need to know your schedule.
Schedule? Even I don't have one of those. Nothing is ever routine here. Always someone coming or going. Not that it helps any but hard for anyone to pinpoint when we might all be gone.

It is true though. Most places are cased before they are robbed.

minks · Post by **minks** » Tue May 26, 2009 10:26 am

panzermk2;1194322 wrote: That's the issue with the non gun types telling you to get a big dog bowel, smash it up and leave it where it can be seen.

With most B&E's the robbers have been casing the house for at least a day. They can figure out you don't have a dog. If you do they just smash it's skull with something. Don't believe me? Ask a cop some time. We have 2 dogs. One of them is a Keeshond. They were bread to be alarm dogs for castle's and manner homes of the Netherlands. Not much fight in them, look like small Huskies. But if a squirrel farts a block away they make sure everyone knows it.

He will alert us to something happening and we will take any further action if needed.

:yh_rotfl well there is the only thing I agree with you on but Cest la vie. Eskies are a cross breed of the Keeshound and Spitz bread to alarm and protect, and similar size but do bite.

I would also be inclined to believe we are less of a target for random attacks when we have barking dogs. Many burglers are looking for the easy take.

No I do not own a gun, I am very ill educated when it comes to guns. Because of my ignorance I choose not to own a gun. I rely upon my dog indeed. It has been suggested to me that I learn more about guns, and perhaps think about owning due to haveing some loose connections with some bikers. But so far I try to keep my self at arms length there.

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Tue May 26, 2009 10:27 am

Sunshine;1194531 wrote: Schedule? Even I don't have one of those. Nothing is ever routine here. Always someone coming or going. Not that it helps any but hard for anyone to pinpoint when we might all be gone.

It is true though. Most places are cased before they are robbed.

Same here...always somebody walking in or out the door. Most robberies occur when they case your house...they want to know your schedule...working, etc.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:50 pm

Sunshine;1194531 wrote: Schedule? Even I don't have one of those. Nothing is ever routine here. Always someone coming or going. Not that it helps any but hard for anyone to pinpoint when we might all be gone.

It is true though. Most places are cased before they are robbed.

same here also, people always coming and going, here and there everyday.

and on weekends also.

once and a while here, places are cased out, but very seldom.....as my neighbor's was cased out years and years ago...stupid old bat she was!...what happened to her...she should have known better......even today she admits that.:-5:-5

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue May 26, 2009 4:16 pm

qsducks;1194541 wrote: Same here...always somebody walking in or out the door. Most robberies occur when they case your house...they want to know your schedule...working, etc. Well said Ducks...... while many burglers are opportunists, it is well known here that the proffessional burgler will case a house for some times if the haul is worth having. Opportunist robbers may be put off by a dog sign if they are looking to pinch any thing of any value to sell for drugs be climbing in an open window but proffessional robbers don't work like that. If they are after jewellry worth thousands, they will do the job properly. Dogs being shot or clubbed to death is very common here in proffesssional jobs. There was a Labrador in our press very recently that survived after being repeatedly stabbed by robbers and the dog got the animal bravery award. Anyone who thinks putting a few dog signs in the window is going to fool some-one determined to get in is asking for it.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Tue May 26, 2009 4:20 pm

YZGI;1033397 wrote: I admit it is a bit more wild west here, mainly because of the gangs and drugs.

-then there's the gangs, drugs and alcohol crackheads.......who get them illegal here!:-5:-5