The Sabbath is for mankind so why do we ignore it? Of all the Mosaic Laws this is one that greatly emphasized and we have almost totally ignored. It is a law that if we began to keep would so drastically reduce business for hospitals they would be in financial crisis.
Do we ignore it out of spite, ignorance, greed or something else?
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Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
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Accountable
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Clint;1180108 wrote: The Sabbath is for mankind so why do we ignore it? Of all the Mosaic Laws this is one that greatly emphasized and we have almost totally ignored. It is a law that if we began to keep would so drastically reduce business for hospitals they would be in financial crisis.
Do we ignore it out of spite, ignorance, greed or something else?
What do you mean?
Do we ignore it out of spite, ignorance, greed or something else?
What do you mean?
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Surely keeping the sabbath is a personal thing. There are many who would not recognise the significance. Non Christian, athiest. Are they meant to follow strictly, a mosaic law that means nothing to them. This world is made up of many different people with different, customs and religious beliefs
Respect should be given to those that choose not to work on the sabbath for religious reasons. I certainly have no problem with that but for me it is a day as any other and one that I should be able to use as any other. Whether as work or play
Respect should be given to those that choose not to work on the sabbath for religious reasons. I certainly have no problem with that but for me it is a day as any other and one that I should be able to use as any other. Whether as work or play
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
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If you want to keep the sabbath then do so but the religious have no right to insists that everyone join in their beliefs or share their observances. Go to church and thank god you don't live in a theocracy.
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Keeping the Sabbath is more than not working.
It is taking time to spend that time with God.
It is taking time to spend that time with God.
"Out, damned spot! out, I say!"
- William Shakespeare, Macbeth, 5.1
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Hello Clint:-6
There are many people in this world who are not religious, and Sunday is just another wonderful day to be enjoyed.
There are many people in this world who are not religious, and Sunday is just another wonderful day to be enjoyed.
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Saturday is the "sabbath" day for the Jewish....Sunday for the Christians.....me.....I dont need either of those days...I make my own time for my Higher Power and not when im told to.
Women are bitchy and predictable ...men are not and that's the key to knowing the truth.
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Each religion has its own day and they have their own requirements for what is a “Sabbath†or day of rest. I choose the seventh day (Saturday) but that’s not my point. My point is that in all of creation there is the example of rest that the books of many religions seem to capture and put it into words.
I try to observe the Sabbath Day and when I do things go better. I get a rhythm to my life that includes recharging for the next six days. My physical health is better and my mental and spiritual health is much better too.
It is interesting that when you mention something like this and use a name for it that religions use people become defensive and reject it. Did I say people needed to join a religious group to observe and benefit from a Sabbath day? What if I had said I heard the UN was going to declare a Worldwide Day of Rest?
I try to observe the Sabbath Day and when I do things go better. I get a rhythm to my life that includes recharging for the next six days. My physical health is better and my mental and spiritual health is much better too.
It is interesting that when you mention something like this and use a name for it that religions use people become defensive and reject it. Did I say people needed to join a religious group to observe and benefit from a Sabbath day? What if I had said I heard the UN was going to declare a Worldwide Day of Rest?
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
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Accountable;1180147 wrote: What do you mean?
I mean hospitals are full of stressed out people. If they would just take a 24 hour break once a week without work, TV, shopping, computer and the rest, the hospitals would see a dramatic decline in business. I'm sure of it.
I mean hospitals are full of stressed out people. If they would just take a 24 hour break once a week without work, TV, shopping, computer and the rest, the hospitals would see a dramatic decline in business. I'm sure of it.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Sabbath
Clint;1180220 wrote: Each religion has its own day and they have their own requirements for what is a “Sabbath†or day of rest. I choose the seventh day (Saturday) but that’s not my point. My point is that in all of creation there is the example of rest that the books of many religions seem to capture and put it into words.
I try to observe the Sabbath Day and when I do things go better. I get a rhythm to my life that includes recharging for the next six days. My physical health is better and my mental and spiritual health is much better too.
It is interesting that when you mention something like this and use a name for it that religions use people become defensive and reject it. Did I say people needed to join a religious group to observe and benefit from a Sabbath day? What if I had said I heard the UN was going to declare a Worldwide Day of Rest?
I looked up the definition of Sabbath Clint, and while it does mention it as being a DAY OF REST, it's implications are really religious in nature and talks about observance. What are we to observe? There are some of us non-religious folk that have no difficulty in finding that day of rest and it's not necessarily on a Saturday or Sunday, in fact there may even be three or four days in a row that could be a day of rest. Today is Sunday, I feel very rested and have had a nice breakfast. I have OBSERVED some of my neighbors heading off to church and some off to play golf and others, who knows. Tomorrow is Monday and I just may take a day of rest tomorrow too, and maybe Tuesday as well. Actually, since retiring 17 years ago, I would have to guess that about 95% of my days have been pretty restful and I have observed so much.
I try to observe the Sabbath Day and when I do things go better. I get a rhythm to my life that includes recharging for the next six days. My physical health is better and my mental and spiritual health is much better too.
It is interesting that when you mention something like this and use a name for it that religions use people become defensive and reject it. Did I say people needed to join a religious group to observe and benefit from a Sabbath day? What if I had said I heard the UN was going to declare a Worldwide Day of Rest?
I looked up the definition of Sabbath Clint, and while it does mention it as being a DAY OF REST, it's implications are really religious in nature and talks about observance. What are we to observe? There are some of us non-religious folk that have no difficulty in finding that day of rest and it's not necessarily on a Saturday or Sunday, in fact there may even be three or four days in a row that could be a day of rest. Today is Sunday, I feel very rested and have had a nice breakfast. I have OBSERVED some of my neighbors heading off to church and some off to play golf and others, who knows. Tomorrow is Monday and I just may take a day of rest tomorrow too, and maybe Tuesday as well. Actually, since retiring 17 years ago, I would have to guess that about 95% of my days have been pretty restful and I have observed so much.
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Lon;1180256 wrote: I looked up the definition of Sabbath Clint, and while it does mention it as being a DAY OF REST, it's implications are really religious in nature and talks about observance. What are we to observe? There are some of us non-religious folk that have no difficulty in finding that day of rest and it's not necessarily on a Saturday or Sunday, in fact there may even be three or four days in a row that could be a day of rest. Today is Sunday, I feel very rested and have had a nice breakfast. I have OBSERVED some of my neighbors heading off to church and some off to play golf and others, who knows. Tomorrow is Monday and I just may take a day of rest tomorrow too, and maybe Tuesday as well. Actually, since retiring 17 years ago, I would have to guess that about 95% of my days have been pretty restful and I have observed so much.
Right, there is a religious implication. Some would say it is a day to get "centered" and that too is religious because it recognizes us as spiritual beings. On a Sabbath we reconnect with God. Even if you don't recognize the spiritual aspect though, you can benefit from observing a day of rest. That is, of course, unless you rest every day like some lucky retired folks do.
Right, there is a religious implication. Some would say it is a day to get "centered" and that too is religious because it recognizes us as spiritual beings. On a Sabbath we reconnect with God. Even if you don't recognize the spiritual aspect though, you can benefit from observing a day of rest. That is, of course, unless you rest every day like some lucky retired folks do.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
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Clint;1180257 wrote: Right, there is a religious implication. Some would say it is a day to get "centered" and that too is religious because it recognizes us as spiritual beings. On a Sabbath we reconnect with God. Even if you don't recognize the spiritual aspect though, you can benefit from observing a day of rest. That is, of course, unless you rest every day like some lucky retired folks do.
The term Sabbath is nothing without its religious implication which differs for each religion (admittedly, the three Abrahamic religions have a similar interpretation but even here there are significant differences).
The only "religions" that would define the Sabbath in terms of a day to get "centred" would be the meditative ones such as Buddhism which, to the best of my knowledge, do not have a Sabbath.
The term Sabbath is nothing without its religious implication which differs for each religion (admittedly, the three Abrahamic religions have a similar interpretation but even here there are significant differences).
The only "religions" that would define the Sabbath in terms of a day to get "centred" would be the meditative ones such as Buddhism which, to the best of my knowledge, do not have a Sabbath.
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Bryn Mawr;1180259 wrote: The term Sabbath is nothing without its religious implication which differs for each religion (admittedly, the three Abrahamic religions have a similar interpretation but even here there are significant differences).
The only "religions" that would define the Sabbath in terms of a day to get "centred" would be the meditative ones such as Buddhism which, to the best of my knowledge, do not have a Sabbath.
My point isn't so much about whether it's religious or not. My point is that we are collectively burning out and we have to get a handle on it. For many the religious aspect is helpful, for others it isn't. Either way we need to take note, step back, and figure out what works for each one of us.
The only "religions" that would define the Sabbath in terms of a day to get "centred" would be the meditative ones such as Buddhism which, to the best of my knowledge, do not have a Sabbath.
My point isn't so much about whether it's religious or not. My point is that we are collectively burning out and we have to get a handle on it. For many the religious aspect is helpful, for others it isn't. Either way we need to take note, step back, and figure out what works for each one of us.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Sabbath
Clint;1180271 wrote: My point isn't so much about whether it's religious or not. My point is that we are collectively burning out and we have to get a handle on it. For many the religious aspect is helpful, for others it isn't. Either way we need to take note, step back, and figure out what works for each one of us.
By phrasing it in religious terms you're masking what you're trying to say and excluding many who otherwise might be interested - same with your flu thread.
By phrasing it in religious terms you're masking what you're trying to say and excluding many who otherwise might be interested - same with your flu thread.
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Accountable
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In other words, you're not taking your audience's bigotry into account when you write, Clint. :rolleyes:
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Accountable;1180308 wrote: In other words, you're not taking your audience's bigotry into account when you write, Clint. :rolleyes:
If Clint states that it is not the religious aspect that he is referring to and appears to be getting frustrated that other posters are picking up on the religious implications of his wording, why is pointing out that the religious overtones are masking his point bigoted?
If Clint states that it is not the religious aspect that he is referring to and appears to be getting frustrated that other posters are picking up on the religious implications of his wording, why is pointing out that the religious overtones are masking his point bigoted?
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Accountable;1180308 wrote: In other words, you're not taking your audience's bigotry into account when you write, Clint. :rolleyes:
Bigotry ? You'll have to explain that one Acc. Just an explanation from people that not all of us would find the sabbath as significant as Clint, for various reasons. Mine because I am an athiest. I see no bigotry here at all
Bigotry ? You'll have to explain that one Acc. Just an explanation from people that not all of us would find the sabbath as significant as Clint, for various reasons. Mine because I am an athiest. I see no bigotry here at all
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
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Accountable
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Bryn Mawr;1180319 wrote: If Clint states that it is not the religious aspect that he is referring to and appears to be getting frustrated that other posters are picking up on the religious implications of his wording, why is pointing out that the religious overtones are masking his point bigoted?
Snowfire;1180320 wrote: Bigotry ? You'll have to explain that one Acc. Just an explanation from people that not all of us would find the sabbath as significant as Clint, for various reasons. Mine because I am an athiest. I see no bigotry here at all
I can't see another reason why people would feel excluded from this conversation unless they were turned off by the religious terms. Rather than engaging Clint about the positive aspects he hints at, damn near everyone expresses some degree of offense taken at the prospect that observing any religious tradition can have a positive result. How is that not bigotry?
Snowfire;1180320 wrote: Bigotry ? You'll have to explain that one Acc. Just an explanation from people that not all of us would find the sabbath as significant as Clint, for various reasons. Mine because I am an athiest. I see no bigotry here at all
I can't see another reason why people would feel excluded from this conversation unless they were turned off by the religious terms. Rather than engaging Clint about the positive aspects he hints at, damn near everyone expresses some degree of offense taken at the prospect that observing any religious tradition can have a positive result. How is that not bigotry?
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Accountable;1180325 wrote: I can't see another reason why people would feel excluded from this conversation unless they were turned off by the religious terms. Rather than engaging Clint about the positive aspects he hints at, damn near everyone expresses some degree of offense taken at the prospect that observing any religious tradition can have a positive result. How is that not bigotry?
I just read all these posts again and saw disagreement and no bigotry. Why are we not allowed an opinion without it being called bigotry. There is no offence in any post I read. I'm mystified
I just read all these posts again and saw disagreement and no bigotry. Why are we not allowed an opinion without it being called bigotry. There is no offence in any post I read. I'm mystified
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
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Accountable;1180325 wrote: I can't see another reason why people would feel excluded from this conversation unless they were turned off by the religious terms. Rather than engaging Clint about the positive aspects he hints at, damn near everyone expresses some degree of offense taken at the prospect that observing any religious tradition can have a positive result. How is that not bigotry?
My first reaction was why observing the Sabbath should empty the hospitals and what sort of religious statement was being made.
When, several posts later, it turned out that there were no religious overtones intended, I commented.
Bigoted? I don't think so.
My first reaction was why observing the Sabbath should empty the hospitals and what sort of religious statement was being made.
When, several posts later, it turned out that there were no religious overtones intended, I commented.
Bigoted? I don't think so.
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Snowfire;1180327 wrote: I just read all these posts again and saw disagreement and no bigotry. Why are we not allowed an opinion without it being called bigotry. There is no offence in any post I read. I'm mystified
You're right, I'll put my broad brush away. Only three posters took offense, and only Bryn criticised Clint for posting a religious topic in the religion forum.
You're right, I'll put my broad brush away. Only three posters took offense, and only Bryn criticised Clint for posting a religious topic in the religion forum.
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Accountable;1180349 wrote: You're right, I'll put my broad brush away. Only three posters took offense, and only Bryn criticised Clint for posting a religious topic in the religion forum.
Dont let me have to come over there and slap the back of your legs
Dont let me have to come over there and slap the back of your legs
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
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Snowfire;1180351 wrote: Dont let me have to come over there and slap the back of your legs
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Accountable;1180349 wrote: You're right, I'll put my broad brush away. Only three posters took offense, and only Bryn criticised Clint for posting a religious topic in the religion forum.
Because it was not a religious point he was making in a religious forum!
Because it was not a religious point he was making in a religious forum!
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The ancient laws had/have practical applications. They made sense from more than simply a dogmatic point of view. Resting one day a week & working six makes you more energetic and productive than working all seven days. Avoid pork because it will make you sick. That kind of thing.
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I tried to point out the wisdom in the ancient writings and how we could benefit from heeding them today. And I do think some took umbrage simply because the wisdom came from religious writings. If people want to reject all wisdom that was first recorded in a religious book they will find themselves living a miserable life.
I never said hospitals would be “emptied†either. :-2
Also, I have no problem at all with and will not apologize for writing from a religious perspective. If people are offended it is their problem, not mine. I do, however, try to avoid offending when I can.
I never said hospitals would be “emptied†either. :-2
Also, I have no problem at all with and will not apologize for writing from a religious perspective. If people are offended it is their problem, not mine. I do, however, try to avoid offending when I can.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Sabbath
did the sabbath on Sat. 4/25 when my son made his first communion but gave him the day off today:rolleyes:...it was hot and we had way too many parties to go to and were tired. He can go next weekend. I myself never go as the head priest is a total jerk.
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qsducks;1180442 wrote: did the sabbath on Sat. 4/25 when my son made his first communion but gave him the day off today:rolleyes:...it was hot and we had way too many parties to go to and were tired. He can go next weekend. I myself never go as the head priest is a total jerk.
Sabbath is where the word "sabbatical" comes from. It means to take a break. Religion has confused its meaning so that many people relate the word to going to Church or Synagogue. When you gave your son the day off, in a way, you gave him a sabbath day. He probably didn't see it coming.:wah:
Sabbath is where the word "sabbatical" comes from. It means to take a break. Religion has confused its meaning so that many people relate the word to going to Church or Synagogue. When you gave your son the day off, in a way, you gave him a sabbath day. He probably didn't see it coming.:wah:
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Sabbath
Clint;1180430 wrote: I tried to point out the wisdom in the ancient writings and how we could benefit from heeding them today. And I do think some took umbrage simply because the wisdom came from religious writings. If people want to reject all wisdom that was first recorded in a religious book they will find themselves living a miserable life.
I never said hospitals would be “emptied†either. :-2
Also, I have no problem at all with and will not apologize for writing from a religious perspective. If people are offended it is their problem, not mine. I do, however, try to avoid offending when I can.
As I recall the hospital comment was that they would have so little work that they would be non-viable financially.
Certainly no offence taken here, just confusion as to why you posted from a religious perspective and then immediately denied that your point was a religious one.
I never said hospitals would be “emptied†either. :-2
Also, I have no problem at all with and will not apologize for writing from a religious perspective. If people are offended it is their problem, not mine. I do, however, try to avoid offending when I can.
As I recall the hospital comment was that they would have so little work that they would be non-viable financially.
Certainly no offence taken here, just confusion as to why you posted from a religious perspective and then immediately denied that your point was a religious one.
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I look at threads that appear interesting. i never even noticed it was in the religious forum which would have been obvious if I'd thought about it for a few seconds.
In the UK we have fairly liberal laws as to what you do on a sunday but there is a very vociferous minority that would turn the clock back and force all to respect the sabbath-it's only fairly recently, for example, that some of the western isles allowed ferry sailings.-regardless of the effect it had on the tourist industry and those who wanted to open for business on a sunday. No one objects to them going to hurch but they seem to think they have a right to stop others pursuing their lives as they please.
It's hard to keep a religious perspective out of it is it not? I'm not religious so the sabbath is irrelevant.
In the UK we have fairly liberal laws as to what you do on a sunday but there is a very vociferous minority that would turn the clock back and force all to respect the sabbath-it's only fairly recently, for example, that some of the western isles allowed ferry sailings.-regardless of the effect it had on the tourist industry and those who wanted to open for business on a sunday. No one objects to them going to hurch but they seem to think they have a right to stop others pursuing their lives as they please.
It's hard to keep a religious perspective out of it is it not? I'm not religious so the sabbath is irrelevant.
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All I'm trying to say is that the practice of keeping a Sabbath day is beneficial to our health and wellbeing. I'm also sayiing the laws regarding the Sabbath both ancient and present day have value we could all benefit from. Some of you say it's all about religion and I say it's all about what's good for us. The fear of religion shouldn't keep people from doing good things.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
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Clint;1180528 wrote: All I'm trying to say is that the practice of keeping a Sabbath day is beneficial to our health and wellbeing. I'm also sayiing the laws regarding the Sabbath both ancient and present day have value we could all benefit from. Some of you say it's all about religion and I say it's all about what's good for us. The fear of religion shouldn't keep people from doing good things.
It's not religion that causes fear it's the religious.
It's not religion that causes fear it's the religious.
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I have lived in different parts of the U.S. during my lifetime and found it interesting that some communities banned the sale of liquor on Sunday and taverns were closed as well, and even one community that did not open the movie theatre on Sunday, or banned certain sporting activities.
That's not very relaxing or restful for the non religious folk, but it is an example of trying to foster one's belief system on others.
That's not very relaxing or restful for the non religious folk, but it is an example of trying to foster one's belief system on others.
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Lon;1180740 wrote: I have lived in different parts of the U.S. during my lifetime and found it interesting that some communities banned the sale of liquor on Sunday and taverns were closed as well, and even one community that did not open the movie theatre on Sunday, or banned certain sporting activities.
That's not very relaxing or restful for the non religious folk, but it is an example of trying to foster one's belief system on others.
But of course we're bigots for saying so - you mustn't forget that bit
That's not very relaxing or restful for the non religious folk, but it is an example of trying to foster one's belief system on others.
But of course we're bigots for saying so - you mustn't forget that bit
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Clint;1180528 wrote: All I'm trying to say is that the practice of keeping a Sabbath day is beneficial to our health and wellbeing. I'm also sayiing the laws regarding the Sabbath both ancient and present day have value we could all benefit from. Some of you say it's all about religion and I say it's all about what's good for us. The fear of religion shouldn't keep people from doing good things.
I would agree complettely with this observation, the " Physical Laws" of keeping a sabbath are still benefical, but they shouldnot be confused with any " Spiritual Benefit." In my view, God discontinued sabbath keeping when he ushered in the New Covenant, or a " New level of Spirituality" was introduced. One that superseeded any conceived " Spiritual benefit from the Law." Its just a better way now.
But I still see benefical ingredients to sabbath keeping, but not to be confused with the Spiritual.
Peace.
I would agree complettely with this observation, the " Physical Laws" of keeping a sabbath are still benefical, but they shouldnot be confused with any " Spiritual Benefit." In my view, God discontinued sabbath keeping when he ushered in the New Covenant, or a " New level of Spirituality" was introduced. One that superseeded any conceived " Spiritual benefit from the Law." Its just a better way now.
But I still see benefical ingredients to sabbath keeping, but not to be confused with the Spiritual.
Peace.
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Accountable
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Bryn Mawr;1180747 wrote: But of course we're bigots for saying so - you mustn't forget that bit
Worlds of difference between Clint pointing out that his religious dogma (am I using the word right?) has practical applications and an overzealous legislature imposing such rules on unwilling citizens, but of course you know that. A closer parallel to the blue laws Lon speaks of would be banning smoking in pubs.
Worlds of difference between Clint pointing out that his religious dogma (am I using the word right?) has practical applications and an overzealous legislature imposing such rules on unwilling citizens, but of course you know that. A closer parallel to the blue laws Lon speaks of would be banning smoking in pubs.
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Mickiel;1180752 wrote: I would agree complettely with this observation, the " Physical Laws" of keeping a sabbath are still benefical, but they shouldnot be confused with any " Spiritual Benefit." In my view, God discontinued sabbath keeping when he ushered in the New Covenant, or a " New level of Spirituality" was introduced. One that superseeded any conceived " Spiritual benefit from the Law." Its just a better way now.
But I still see benefical ingredients to sabbath keeping, but not to be confused with the Spiritual.
Peace.
If the Sabbath is kept in a way that filters out the noise of everyday life it results in an environment for spiritual benefit that can’t be realized without it.
Shalom
But I still see benefical ingredients to sabbath keeping, but not to be confused with the Spiritual.
Peace.
If the Sabbath is kept in a way that filters out the noise of everyday life it results in an environment for spiritual benefit that can’t be realized without it.
Shalom
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Sabbath
Accountable;1180794 wrote: Worlds of difference between Clint pointing out that his religious dogma (am I using the word right?) has practical applications and an overzealous legislature imposing such rules on unwilling citizens, but of course you know that. A closer parallel to the blue laws Lon speaks of would be banning smoking in pubs.
No Acc, you accused me of being a bigot - I do not like it and I do not consider it justified
Bryn Mawr;1180273 wrote: By phrasing it in religious terms you're masking what you're trying to say and excluding many who otherwise might be interested - same with your flu thread.
Accountable;1180308 wrote: In other words, you're not taking your audience's bigotry into account when you write, Clint. :rolleyes:
Accountable;1180325 wrote: I can't see another reason why people would feel excluded from this conversation unless they were turned off by the religious terms. Rather than engaging Clint about the positive aspects he hints at, damn near everyone expresses some degree of offense taken at the prospect that observing any religious tradition can have a positive result. How is that not bigotry?
Accountable;1180349 wrote: You're right, I'll put my broad brush away. Only three posters took offense, and only Bryn criticised Clint for posting a religious topic in the religion forum.
No Acc, you accused me of being a bigot - I do not like it and I do not consider it justified
Bryn Mawr;1180273 wrote: By phrasing it in religious terms you're masking what you're trying to say and excluding many who otherwise might be interested - same with your flu thread.
Accountable;1180308 wrote: In other words, you're not taking your audience's bigotry into account when you write, Clint. :rolleyes:
Accountable;1180325 wrote: I can't see another reason why people would feel excluded from this conversation unless they were turned off by the religious terms. Rather than engaging Clint about the positive aspects he hints at, damn near everyone expresses some degree of offense taken at the prospect that observing any religious tradition can have a positive result. How is that not bigotry?
Accountable;1180349 wrote: You're right, I'll put my broad brush away. Only three posters took offense, and only Bryn criticised Clint for posting a religious topic in the religion forum.
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Lon;1180740 wrote: I have lived in different parts of the U.S. during my lifetime and found it interesting that some communities banned the sale of liquor on Sunday and taverns were closed as well, and even one community that did not open the movie theatre on Sunday, or banned certain sporting activities.
That's not very relaxing or restful for the non religious folk, but it is an example of trying to foster one's belief system on others.
Bryn Mawr;1180747 wrote: But of course we're bigots for saying so - you mustn't forget that bit
Accountable;1180794 wrote: Worlds of difference between Clint pointing out that his religious dogma (am I using the word right?) has practical applications and an overzealous legislature imposing such rules on unwilling citizens, but of course you know that. A closer parallel to the blue laws Lon speaks of would be banning smoking in pubs.
Bryn Mawr;1180840 wrote: No Acc, you accused me of being a bigot - I do not like it and I do not consider it justified"No" meaning there is not a difference? I did not accuse you of bigotry for complaining about imposing religious dogma on unwilling citizens by force of secular law. I agree that blue laws are wrong and should be eliminated. I pointed out the bigotry in your stating that Clint's post is exclusionary simply because it mentions religion. If you're going to get your panties in a wad, wad them for the right reason.
That's not very relaxing or restful for the non religious folk, but it is an example of trying to foster one's belief system on others.
Bryn Mawr;1180747 wrote: But of course we're bigots for saying so - you mustn't forget that bit
Accountable;1180794 wrote: Worlds of difference between Clint pointing out that his religious dogma (am I using the word right?) has practical applications and an overzealous legislature imposing such rules on unwilling citizens, but of course you know that. A closer parallel to the blue laws Lon speaks of would be banning smoking in pubs.
Bryn Mawr;1180840 wrote: No Acc, you accused me of being a bigot - I do not like it and I do not consider it justified
"No" meaning there is not a difference? I did not accuse you of bigotry for complaining about imposing religious dogma on unwilling citizens by force of secular law. I agree that blue laws are wrong and should be eliminated. I pointed out the bigotry in your stating that Clint's post is exclusionary simply because it mentions religion. If you're going to get your panties in a wad, wad them for the right reason.Sabbath
Accountable;1180868 wrote: "No" meaning there is not a difference? I did not accuse you of bigotry for complaining about imposing religious dogma on unwilling citizens by force of secular law. I agree that blue laws are wrong and should be eliminated. I pointed out the bigotry in your stating that Clint's post is exclusionary simply because it mentions religion. If you're going to get your panties in a wad, wad them for the right reason.
As I see it, you accused me of bigotry for trying to find out why Clint thought that enforcing the Sabbath would send the hospitals bankrupt and then pointing out that his reasoning was not based on religion (as he said himself).
The comment re exclusion was a reference to the thread title - there are several members in the Garden who have said they do not go into religious threads because of the arguments, they were being excluded from what could have been an interesting discussion.
Calling someone a bigot is a serious accusation and not one to be made from such a flimsy base.
As I see it, you accused me of bigotry for trying to find out why Clint thought that enforcing the Sabbath would send the hospitals bankrupt and then pointing out that his reasoning was not based on religion (as he said himself).
The comment re exclusion was a reference to the thread title - there are several members in the Garden who have said they do not go into religious threads because of the arguments, they were being excluded from what could have been an interesting discussion.
Calling someone a bigot is a serious accusation and not one to be made from such a flimsy base.
Sabbath
Here in Canada some places, not sure about others, have legislated that yes businesses can be open on the Sabbath but those who object are not to be forced to work on the Sabbath. I see no problem with this. All folks are to have a day or two off work each week.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Shalom
Ted:-6
Sabbath
Clint;1180798 wrote: If the Sabbath is kept in a way that filters out the noise of everyday life it results in an environment for spiritual benefit that can’t be realized without it.
Shalom
I disagree with the limiting of spiritual benefits to anything that " Can't be realized without it", except Christ himself. The sabbath is not the entrance to Spiritualization, Jesus is. So if you are trying to say that the sabbath is the key to spiritual benefits, your just trying to create a day of " All encompassing importance", which superseeds Christ himself, who is the Lord of the sabbath.
And this is the danger in upholding the sabbath, it becomes more holy than it really is. Humans tend to " Need things that they think are Holy", crutches to help them walk, because they cannot walk on their own.
Peace.
Shalom
I disagree with the limiting of spiritual benefits to anything that " Can't be realized without it", except Christ himself. The sabbath is not the entrance to Spiritualization, Jesus is. So if you are trying to say that the sabbath is the key to spiritual benefits, your just trying to create a day of " All encompassing importance", which superseeds Christ himself, who is the Lord of the sabbath.
And this is the danger in upholding the sabbath, it becomes more holy than it really is. Humans tend to " Need things that they think are Holy", crutches to help them walk, because they cannot walk on their own.
Peace.
Sabbath
Ted;1181297 wrote: Here in Canada some places, not sure about others, have legislated that yes businesses can be open on the Sabbath but those who object are not to be forced to work on the Sabbath. I see no problem with this. All folks are to have a day or two off work each week.
Shalom
Ted:-6
It's becoming difficult here for buisnesses to close one day a week.
I get days off from work too but I have trouble actually resting on those days. :-5
Shalom
Ted:-6
It's becoming difficult here for buisnesses to close one day a week.
I get days off from work too but I have trouble actually resting on those days. :-5
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Sabbath
Mickiel;1181318 wrote: I disagree with the limiting of spiritual benefits to anything that " Can't be realized without it", except Christ himself. The sabbath is not the entrance to Spiritualization, Jesus is. So if you are trying to say that the sabbath is the key to spiritual benefits, your just trying to create a day of " All encompassing importance", which superseeds Christ himself, who is the Lord of the sabbath.
And this is the danger in upholding the sabbath, it becomes more holy than it really is. Humans tend to " Need things that they think are Holy", crutches to help them walk, because they cannot walk on their own.
Peace.
Jesus observed the Sabbath as did the Apostles after his death. The Sabbath is key to understanding the rest Jesus offers.
Don't worry I'm not lost in legalism.
And this is the danger in upholding the sabbath, it becomes more holy than it really is. Humans tend to " Need things that they think are Holy", crutches to help them walk, because they cannot walk on their own.
Peace.
Jesus observed the Sabbath as did the Apostles after his death. The Sabbath is key to understanding the rest Jesus offers.
Don't worry I'm not lost in legalism.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Sabbath
Clint;1181323 wrote: Jesus observed the Sabbath as did the Apostles after his death. The Sabbath is key to understanding the rest Jesus offers.
Don't worry I'm not lost in legalism.
The sabbath was an old fashion way that God showed an old fashion people, how to understand certain things. When Christ came, a new way of understanding was incorperated. Those who see value in the old way, simply " Need" the old way, so you are finding value in something long past. Because your going backwards, such is human nature, many have hindsight, and no foresight.
Live in the past, its just the way for you now. And I hold no intrest in taking you out of the past, or taking your crutch from you.
Because I understand your need to walk with it.
Peace on your walk.
Don't worry I'm not lost in legalism.
The sabbath was an old fashion way that God showed an old fashion people, how to understand certain things. When Christ came, a new way of understanding was incorperated. Those who see value in the old way, simply " Need" the old way, so you are finding value in something long past. Because your going backwards, such is human nature, many have hindsight, and no foresight.
Live in the past, its just the way for you now. And I hold no intrest in taking you out of the past, or taking your crutch from you.
Because I understand your need to walk with it.
Peace on your walk.
Sabbath
Mickiel;1181333 wrote: The sabbath was an old fashion way that God showed an old fashion people, how to understand certain things. When Christ came, a new way of understanding was incorperated. Those who see value in the old way, simply " Need" the old way, so you are finding value in something long past. Because your going backwards, such is human nature, many have hindsight, and no foresight.
Live in the past, its just the way for you now. And I hold no intrest in taking you out of the past, or taking your crutch from you.
Because I understand your need to walk with it.
Peace on your walk.
That settles it. I'm getting rid of my old friends and possessions. Everything for me must be new now. My father's wisdom...can't have that because that was from a past generation. :wah:
Jesus was a Jew. He taught Jews and related to them in a time 2,000 years ago when things hadn't changed much for the past 4,000 years. To understand what he was saying it is necessary to try to understand the time and culture he was in.
He said that the law would not pass away until heaven and earth have passed away. That hasn't happened yet so I'm still trying to make sense of the law and see where it adds value in an otherwise messed up time and culture (today). That doesn't mean I'm growing a beard.
I encourage you to stick around here for a while. If you are willing to defend your views you will ultimately change some of them. If you just want to tell people how wrong they are and how right you are you won't gain much. I know because I've tried it.
Live in the past, its just the way for you now. And I hold no intrest in taking you out of the past, or taking your crutch from you.
Because I understand your need to walk with it.
Peace on your walk.
That settles it. I'm getting rid of my old friends and possessions. Everything for me must be new now. My father's wisdom...can't have that because that was from a past generation. :wah:
Jesus was a Jew. He taught Jews and related to them in a time 2,000 years ago when things hadn't changed much for the past 4,000 years. To understand what he was saying it is necessary to try to understand the time and culture he was in.
He said that the law would not pass away until heaven and earth have passed away. That hasn't happened yet so I'm still trying to make sense of the law and see where it adds value in an otherwise messed up time and culture (today). That doesn't mean I'm growing a beard.
I encourage you to stick around here for a while. If you are willing to defend your views you will ultimately change some of them. If you just want to tell people how wrong they are and how right you are you won't gain much. I know because I've tried it.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Sabbath
Clint:-6
Do not get rid of your father's wisdom. It is through understanding the past that we can understand today and look forward to the future. The last generation's wisdom as well as the wisdom of the ancients is very important.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Do not get rid of your father's wisdom. It is through understanding the past that we can understand today and look forward to the future. The last generation's wisdom as well as the wisdom of the ancients is very important.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Sabbath
Clint;1181427 wrote: That settles it. I'm getting rid of my old friends and possessions. Everything for me must be new now. My father's wisdom...can't have that because that was from a past generation. :wah:
Jesus was a Jew. He taught Jews and related to them in a time 2,000 years ago when things hadn't changed much for the past 4,000 years. To understand what he was saying it is necessary to try to understand the time and culture he was in.
He said that the law would not pass away until heaven and earth have passed away. That hasn't happened yet so I'm still trying to make sense of the law and see where it adds value in an otherwise messed up time and culture (today). That doesn't mean I'm growing a beard.
I encourage you to stick around here for a while. If you are willing to defend your views you will ultimately change some of them. If you just want to tell people how wrong they are and how right you are you won't gain much. I know because I've tried it.
I am not trying to gain anything here, I am simply doing what you are, expressing myself, I just happen to disagree with you. The law is not evil, it was just impossible for men to keep it, according to Paul. He said in 1Corinth. 9:19-21, that he is not under the Law, he was trying to wean believers off of it, and teach them the new covenant, called the " Law of Christ." The Law was really a " Curse to people", it condemned them because they could not keep it. It was too strict. In Gal. 3:13" Christ redeemed us from the Curse of the Law." The bible just comes right out and calls the Law a curse, and it was not just the ten commandments, there was well over 300 principles in Gods Old testement Law, so if your going to study and keep them, then you must adhere to all of them. And then your own failure to keep them should lead you away from trying to be so spiritual, that you place heavy burdens on yourself.
Read vs.23;" Before Faith came, we were kept in custody under the Law, being shut up." The Law was meant to lead those humans back then to a comming Christ, but now that he has come, we no longer need the Law, vs.25.
So then those who are attracted to the Law, are going backwards, back into its custody, back into its bondage, which in effect, is a rejection of the freedom in Christ. Now the devil loves it when believers do that, because it is easier for satan to bind people, who are binding themselves, and he traps them back into the Old Covenant, where Christ has not yet come, not yet died, so their salvation is yet to come. In this mentality, satan can hold the growth and understanding of the believer in bondage. Still stuck on the Law, still stuck on the Sabbath, still thinking Old Covenant. Thus missing the Real Law of Christ
, Gal.6:2. The bible calls Christ " The End of the Law."
The Law has benefits, but Jesus hung all the Old covenant Law on his Back and gave a New Law of Love and Freedom.
Peace.
Jesus was a Jew. He taught Jews and related to them in a time 2,000 years ago when things hadn't changed much for the past 4,000 years. To understand what he was saying it is necessary to try to understand the time and culture he was in.
He said that the law would not pass away until heaven and earth have passed away. That hasn't happened yet so I'm still trying to make sense of the law and see where it adds value in an otherwise messed up time and culture (today). That doesn't mean I'm growing a beard.
I encourage you to stick around here for a while. If you are willing to defend your views you will ultimately change some of them. If you just want to tell people how wrong they are and how right you are you won't gain much. I know because I've tried it.
I am not trying to gain anything here, I am simply doing what you are, expressing myself, I just happen to disagree with you. The law is not evil, it was just impossible for men to keep it, according to Paul. He said in 1Corinth. 9:19-21, that he is not under the Law, he was trying to wean believers off of it, and teach them the new covenant, called the " Law of Christ." The Law was really a " Curse to people", it condemned them because they could not keep it. It was too strict. In Gal. 3:13" Christ redeemed us from the Curse of the Law." The bible just comes right out and calls the Law a curse, and it was not just the ten commandments, there was well over 300 principles in Gods Old testement Law, so if your going to study and keep them, then you must adhere to all of them. And then your own failure to keep them should lead you away from trying to be so spiritual, that you place heavy burdens on yourself.
Read vs.23;" Before Faith came, we were kept in custody under the Law, being shut up." The Law was meant to lead those humans back then to a comming Christ, but now that he has come, we no longer need the Law, vs.25.
So then those who are attracted to the Law, are going backwards, back into its custody, back into its bondage, which in effect, is a rejection of the freedom in Christ. Now the devil loves it when believers do that, because it is easier for satan to bind people, who are binding themselves, and he traps them back into the Old Covenant, where Christ has not yet come, not yet died, so their salvation is yet to come. In this mentality, satan can hold the growth and understanding of the believer in bondage. Still stuck on the Law, still stuck on the Sabbath, still thinking Old Covenant. Thus missing the Real Law of Christ
, Gal.6:2. The bible calls Christ " The End of the Law."
The Law has benefits, but Jesus hung all the Old covenant Law on his Back and gave a New Law of Love and Freedom.
Peace.
Sabbath
Mickiel;1181617 wrote: I am not trying to gain anything here, I am simply doing what you are, expressing myself, I just happen to disagree with you. The law is not evil, it was just impossible for men to keep it, according to Paul. He said in 1Corinth. 9:19-21, that he is not under the Law, he was trying to wean believers off of it, and teach them the new covenant, called the " Law of Christ." The Law was really a " Curse to people", it condemned them because they could not keep it. It was too strict. In Gal. 3:13" Christ redeemed us from the Curse of the Law." The bible just comes right out and calls the Law a curse, and it was not just the ten commandments, there was well over 300 principles in Gods Old testement Law, so if your going to study and keep them, then you must adhere to all of them. And then your own failure to keep them should lead you away from trying to be so spiritual, that you place heavy burdens on yourself.
Read vs.23;" Before Faith came, we were kept in custody under the Law, being shut up." The Law was meant to lead those humans back then to a comming Christ, but now that he has come, we no longer need the Law, vs.25.
So then those who are attracted to the Law, are going backwards, back into its custody, back into its bondage, which in effect, is a rejection of the freedom in Christ. Now the devil loves it when believers do that, because it is easier for satan to bind people, who are binding themselves, and he traps them back into the Old Covenant, where Christ has not yet come, not yet died, so their salvation is yet to come. In this mentality, satan can hold the growth and understanding of the believer in bondage. Still stuck on the Law, still stuck on the Sabbath, still thinking Old Covenant. Thus missing the Real Law of Christ
, Gal.6:2. The bible calls Christ " The End of the Law."
The Law has benefits, but Jesus hung all the Old covenant Law on his Back and gave a New Law of Love and Freedom.
Peace.
Exodus 31:16 says the Sabbath is a perpetual covenant. Perpetual means it doesn't end. Some prefer to run from the law because they are concerned that it will make them a slave. Christ taught us that the law does not make us slaves. Through his triumph over death he demonstrated that nothing can make us slaves.
God doesn't break his covenants so the idea there is an "old" covenant that is now gone doesn't work. God's covenants work together compounding their benefit to his creation.
Pauls writings must be read understanding that they are letters and we are only reading one side of a conversation.
Read vs.23;" Before Faith came, we were kept in custody under the Law, being shut up." The Law was meant to lead those humans back then to a comming Christ, but now that he has come, we no longer need the Law, vs.25.
So then those who are attracted to the Law, are going backwards, back into its custody, back into its bondage, which in effect, is a rejection of the freedom in Christ. Now the devil loves it when believers do that, because it is easier for satan to bind people, who are binding themselves, and he traps them back into the Old Covenant, where Christ has not yet come, not yet died, so their salvation is yet to come. In this mentality, satan can hold the growth and understanding of the believer in bondage. Still stuck on the Law, still stuck on the Sabbath, still thinking Old Covenant. Thus missing the Real Law of Christ
, Gal.6:2. The bible calls Christ " The End of the Law."
The Law has benefits, but Jesus hung all the Old covenant Law on his Back and gave a New Law of Love and Freedom.
Peace.
Exodus 31:16 says the Sabbath is a perpetual covenant. Perpetual means it doesn't end. Some prefer to run from the law because they are concerned that it will make them a slave. Christ taught us that the law does not make us slaves. Through his triumph over death he demonstrated that nothing can make us slaves.
God doesn't break his covenants so the idea there is an "old" covenant that is now gone doesn't work. God's covenants work together compounding their benefit to his creation.
Pauls writings must be read understanding that they are letters and we are only reading one side of a conversation.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.