Anti Capitalists claim responsibility and warn....... This is just the beginning
:(Disgraced Bank of Scotland's Fred Goodwin's home and Mercedes trashed in attack.
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Disgraced Bank of Scotland's Fred Goodwin's home and Mercedes trashed in attack.
Anti-capitalists admit attacking Fred the Shred's home and warn other bankers: 'This is just the beginning' | Mail Online
Anti Capitalists claim responsibility and warn....... This is just the beginning:(
Anti Capitalists claim responsibility and warn....... This is just the beginning
:(At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Disgraced Bank of Scotland's Fred Goodwin's home and Mercedes trashed in attack.
oscar;1163295 wrote: Anti-capitalists admit attacking Fred the Shred's home and warn other bankers: 'This is just the beginning' | Mail Online
Anti Capitalists claim responsibility and warn....... This is just the beginning:(
Slight correction - it's RBS and not HBOS
Agree there's not much difference but let's be about right here :wah:
As for the attack - despite whatever he might have done, vigilante justice is never right and this is just another criminal attack on a private citizen.
If he has committed a crime then use the courts, if not then leave him alone.
Anti Capitalists claim responsibility and warn....... This is just the beginning
:(Slight correction - it's RBS and not HBOS
Agree there's not much difference but let's be about right here :wah:
As for the attack - despite whatever he might have done, vigilante justice is never right and this is just another criminal attack on a private citizen.
If he has committed a crime then use the courts, if not then leave him alone.
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Disgraced Bank of Scotland's Fred Goodwin's home and Mercedes trashed in attack.
Bryn Mawr;1163388 wrote: Slight correction - it's RBS and not HBOS
Agree there's not much difference but let's be about right here :wah:
As for the attack - despite whatever he might have done, vigilante justice is never right and this is just another criminal attack on a private citizen.
If he has committed a crime then use the courts, if not then leave him alone. Naturally, there will be folk who say he deserves it but it's not that simple. There were reports in the press a few weeks ago that he was considering fleeing Britain due to threats. People have to realise, he may have family and children that could get hurt. When i put the thread on about him possibly fleeing Britain, I said then that he is being used as the scape-goat. There are other bank chiefs as guilty as him and they all need investigating, not just him.
Agree there's not much difference but let's be about right here :wah:
As for the attack - despite whatever he might have done, vigilante justice is never right and this is just another criminal attack on a private citizen.
If he has committed a crime then use the courts, if not then leave him alone. Naturally, there will be folk who say he deserves it but it's not that simple. There were reports in the press a few weeks ago that he was considering fleeing Britain due to threats. People have to realise, he may have family and children that could get hurt. When i put the thread on about him possibly fleeing Britain, I said then that he is being used as the scape-goat. There are other bank chiefs as guilty as him and they all need investigating, not just him.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Disgraced Bank of Scotland's Fred Goodwin's home and Mercedes trashed in attack.
oscar;1163390 wrote: Naturally, there will be folk who say he deserves it but it's not that simple. There were reports in the press a few weeks ago that he was considering fleeing Britain due to threats. People have to realise, he may have family and children that could get hurt. When i put the thread on about him possibly fleeing Britain, I said then that he is being used as the scape-goat. There are other bank chiefs as guilty as him and they all need investigating, not just him.
His ego did not bring down the world economy, it just hurt RBS when the world economy went down.
Stupid maybe but a daemon? No.
I cannot imagine a situation in a civilised country when vigilante justice is acceptable - it certainly is not in this case.
His ego did not bring down the world economy, it just hurt RBS when the world economy went down.
Stupid maybe but a daemon? No.
I cannot imagine a situation in a civilised country when vigilante justice is acceptable - it certainly is not in this case.
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Disgraced Bank of Scotland's Fred Goodwin's home and Mercedes trashed in attack.
Bryn Mawr;1163398 wrote: His ego did not bring down the world economy, it just hurt RBS when the world economy went down.
Stupid maybe but a daemon? No.
I cannot imagine a situation in a civilised country when vigilante justice is acceptable - it certainly is not in this case. The police i would imagine will be on the trail for those responsible very quickly.
Stupid maybe but a daemon? No.
I cannot imagine a situation in a civilised country when vigilante justice is acceptable - it certainly is not in this case. The police i would imagine will be on the trail for those responsible very quickly.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
-
Bill Sikes
- Posts: 5515
- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:21 am
Disgraced Bank of Scotland's Fred Goodwin's home and Mercedes trashed in attack.
oscar;1163399 wrote: The police i would imagine will be on the trail for those responsible very quickly.
The e-mail was sent from a mail.com address, apparently. There are ways of sending untraceable mails, but in this case a possibly-useful trail will have been left.
The e-mail was sent from a mail.com address, apparently. There are ways of sending untraceable mails, but in this case a possibly-useful trail will have been left.
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Disgraced Bank of Scotland's Fred Goodwin's home and Mercedes trashed in attack.
Bill Sikes;1163419 wrote: The e-mail was sent from a mail.com address, apparently. There are ways of sending untraceable mails, but in this case a possibly-useful trail will have been left. I would imagine they will trace that very quickly. A possibility that it may have been an internet cafe. I don't know how those things work and if some-one has to log in first.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Disgraced Bank of Scotland's Fred Goodwin's home and Mercedes trashed in attack.
They were right in one regard.
This is only the beginning.
This is only the beginning.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Disgraced Bank of Scotland's Fred Goodwin's home and Mercedes trashed in attack.
Bryn Mawr;1163388 wrote: Slight correction - it's RBS and not HBOS
Agree there's not much difference but let's be about right here :wah:
As for the attack - despite whatever he might have done, vigilante justice is never right and this is just another criminal attack on a private citizen.
If he has committed a crime then use the courts, if not then leave him alone.
The article doesn't mention hbos?
He has committed a crime but making a company bankrupt through sheer stupif=dity is sadly not a crime. The ones at fauklt are he govt officials that approved the payment to his pension fund-that size of payment has to be approved by hmrc. Lord myners had to agree to it he was h-not there just to rubber stamp it-how can a bankrupt company affored to pay off it's executives? There is actually pension legislation in place to prevent company directors lobbing money in to a pension fund when they know it is going bankrupt-in other wirds o prevent fraud. Were it not for the actions of fred the shred in insisting on the takeover of abn amro rbos would have been OK.
HBOS is more serious-what kind of idiots (Lloyd TSB() take over a company without looking over the book and knowing exactly what the levels of bad debt were? The monopolies commission would have prevented the merger going through but the geniuses on out government prevented them from interfering.
It's not just effigies of bankers we should be burning it's gordon brown.
posted by bryn mawr
I cannot imagine a situation in a civilised country when vigilante justice is acceptable - it certainly is not in this case.
No n=but you can understand it in this case. If the justice system can do nothing then people feel they have to do something themselves. I don't thin gordon brown and the other tossers understand how angry people are about all of this.
Agree there's not much difference but let's be about right here :wah:
As for the attack - despite whatever he might have done, vigilante justice is never right and this is just another criminal attack on a private citizen.
If he has committed a crime then use the courts, if not then leave him alone.
The article doesn't mention hbos?
He has committed a crime but making a company bankrupt through sheer stupif=dity is sadly not a crime. The ones at fauklt are he govt officials that approved the payment to his pension fund-that size of payment has to be approved by hmrc. Lord myners had to agree to it he was h-not there just to rubber stamp it-how can a bankrupt company affored to pay off it's executives? There is actually pension legislation in place to prevent company directors lobbing money in to a pension fund when they know it is going bankrupt-in other wirds o prevent fraud. Were it not for the actions of fred the shred in insisting on the takeover of abn amro rbos would have been OK.
HBOS is more serious-what kind of idiots (Lloyd TSB() take over a company without looking over the book and knowing exactly what the levels of bad debt were? The monopolies commission would have prevented the merger going through but the geniuses on out government prevented them from interfering.
It's not just effigies of bankers we should be burning it's gordon brown.
posted by bryn mawr
I cannot imagine a situation in a civilised country when vigilante justice is acceptable - it certainly is not in this case.
No n=but you can understand it in this case. If the justice system can do nothing then people feel they have to do something themselves. I don't thin gordon brown and the other tossers understand how angry people are about all of this.
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Disgraced Bank of Scotland's Fred Goodwin's home and Mercedes trashed in attack.
gmc;1163597 wrote: The article doesn't mention hbos?
He has committed a crime but making a company bankrupt through sheer stupif=dity is sadly not a crime. The ones at fauklt are he govt officials that approved the payment to his pension fund-that size of payment has to be approved by hmrc. Lord myners had to agree to it he was h-not there just to rubber stamp it-how can a bankrupt company affored to pay off it's executives? There is actually pension legislation in place to prevent company directors lobbing money in to a pension fund when they know it is going bankrupt-in other wirds o prevent fraud. Were it not for the actions of fred the shred in insisting on the takeover of abn amro rbos would have been OK.
HBOS is more serious-what kind of idiots (Lloyd TSB() take over a company without looking over the book and knowing exactly what the levels of bad debt were? The monopolies commission would have prevented the merger going through but the geniuses on out government prevented them from interfering.
It's not just effigies of bankers we should be burning it's gordon brown.
posted by bryn mawr
No n=but you can understand it in this case. If the justice system can do nothing then people feel they have to do something themselves. I don't thin gordon brown and the other tossers understand how angry people are about all of this.
STEPHEN GLOVER: Fred the Shred's an easy target, but we should all beware of the nihilists of the Left... itching to reduce this country to anarchy | Mail Online
Great debate article by The Daily Mail on Fred and the attack.
He has committed a crime but making a company bankrupt through sheer stupif=dity is sadly not a crime. The ones at fauklt are he govt officials that approved the payment to his pension fund-that size of payment has to be approved by hmrc. Lord myners had to agree to it he was h-not there just to rubber stamp it-how can a bankrupt company affored to pay off it's executives? There is actually pension legislation in place to prevent company directors lobbing money in to a pension fund when they know it is going bankrupt-in other wirds o prevent fraud. Were it not for the actions of fred the shred in insisting on the takeover of abn amro rbos would have been OK.
HBOS is more serious-what kind of idiots (Lloyd TSB() take over a company without looking over the book and knowing exactly what the levels of bad debt were? The monopolies commission would have prevented the merger going through but the geniuses on out government prevented them from interfering.
It's not just effigies of bankers we should be burning it's gordon brown.
posted by bryn mawr
No n=but you can understand it in this case. If the justice system can do nothing then people feel they have to do something themselves. I don't thin gordon brown and the other tossers understand how angry people are about all of this.
STEPHEN GLOVER: Fred the Shred's an easy target, but we should all beware of the nihilists of the Left... itching to reduce this country to anarchy | Mail Online
Great debate article by The Daily Mail on Fred and the attack.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Disgraced Bank of Scotland's Fred Goodwin's home and Mercedes trashed in attack.
The scary thing is that although I do not agree with it, I understand it.
I believe that there is a real risk of civil unrest if these feckers don’t come quickly into the real world. The public will not tolerate for very much longer these morons who ran the economy into the ground walking away with millions in their pockets paid for by the tax payer who is bailing them out.
I think it could get very much worse than this.
I believe that there is a real risk of civil unrest if these feckers don’t come quickly into the real world. The public will not tolerate for very much longer these morons who ran the economy into the ground walking away with millions in their pockets paid for by the tax payer who is bailing them out.
I think it could get very much worse than this.
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Disgraced Bank of Scotland's Fred Goodwin's home and Mercedes trashed in attack.
mikeinie;1163639 wrote: The scary thing is that although I do not agree with it, I understand it.
I believe that there is a real risk of civil unrest if these feckers don’t come quickly into the real world. The public will not tolerate for very much longer these morons who ran the economy into the ground walking away with millions in their pockets paid for by the tax payer who is bailing them out.
I think it could get very much worse than this. Yes, i also believe it will get worse. I thought it was a great article by the Mail today, as they rightly said, Who's next? It could be you or me. Unless the fraud department can successfully bring him to court on fraud charges, he has actually done nothing wrong. My own view of the so called anti-capitalists, is that what ever, when ever, you always get people who want to incite a riot. They look for anything they can use as a publicity tool and an excuse to vent their own form of justice. It smacks to me of pure jealousey. I don't agree with what he contributed towards and i believe there needs to be an enquirey but i must say, I've never lost any sleep over the fact that he has a Merc and I don't. Petty Jealousey by a bunch of thugs is no doubt what this is about. I hope the police arrest soon and the courts do their worst with them. The only true way anarchy will break out, is if, these thugs get away with it. That will give them and others licence to carry on doing what they like.
I believe that there is a real risk of civil unrest if these feckers don’t come quickly into the real world. The public will not tolerate for very much longer these morons who ran the economy into the ground walking away with millions in their pockets paid for by the tax payer who is bailing them out.
I think it could get very much worse than this. Yes, i also believe it will get worse. I thought it was a great article by the Mail today, as they rightly said, Who's next? It could be you or me. Unless the fraud department can successfully bring him to court on fraud charges, he has actually done nothing wrong. My own view of the so called anti-capitalists, is that what ever, when ever, you always get people who want to incite a riot. They look for anything they can use as a publicity tool and an excuse to vent their own form of justice. It smacks to me of pure jealousey. I don't agree with what he contributed towards and i believe there needs to be an enquirey but i must say, I've never lost any sleep over the fact that he has a Merc and I don't. Petty Jealousey by a bunch of thugs is no doubt what this is about. I hope the police arrest soon and the courts do their worst with them. The only true way anarchy will break out, is if, these thugs get away with it. That will give them and others licence to carry on doing what they like.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Disgraced Bank of Scotland's Fred Goodwin's home and Mercedes trashed in attack.
oscar;1163636 wrote: STEPHEN GLOVER: Fred the Shred's an easy target, but we should all beware of the nihilists of the Left... itching to reduce this country to anarchy | Mail Online
Great debate article by The Daily Mail on Fred and the attack.
Good grief I agree with daily mail journalist
STEPHEN GLOVER: The witch-hunt against Sir Fred Goodwin is letting Labour off the hook | Mail Online
Whatever his sins, Sir Fred Goodwin is very far from being the only rogue in town. He could not have run amok if the Government's lax regulatory regime had not enabled him to do so. Sir Fred was a New Labour hero, and in particular a friend and favourite of Gordon Brown's. He was feted and celebrated as he tried to turn RBS into one of the biggest banks in the world.
It suits the Government to forget that - and to try to make us forget. Having rejected socialism in the mid-Nineties, New Labour embraced casino capitalism with wide- eyed naivety. You might say that it went from one extreme to another. Dodgy businessmen were made welcome at No 10 by Tony Blair. The motto of the newly created Financial Services Authority was 'anything goes'.
GORDON IS A MORON
Great debate article by The Daily Mail on Fred and the attack.
Good grief I agree with daily mail journalist
STEPHEN GLOVER: The witch-hunt against Sir Fred Goodwin is letting Labour off the hook | Mail Online
Whatever his sins, Sir Fred Goodwin is very far from being the only rogue in town. He could not have run amok if the Government's lax regulatory regime had not enabled him to do so. Sir Fred was a New Labour hero, and in particular a friend and favourite of Gordon Brown's. He was feted and celebrated as he tried to turn RBS into one of the biggest banks in the world.
It suits the Government to forget that - and to try to make us forget. Having rejected socialism in the mid-Nineties, New Labour embraced casino capitalism with wide- eyed naivety. You might say that it went from one extreme to another. Dodgy businessmen were made welcome at No 10 by Tony Blair. The motto of the newly created Financial Services Authority was 'anything goes'.
GORDON IS A MORON
Disgraced Bank of Scotland's Fred Goodwin's home and Mercedes trashed in attack.
gmc;1163597 wrote: The article doesn't mention hbos?
No, but the thread title does
gmc;1163597 wrote: He has committed a crime but making a company bankrupt through sheer stupif=dity is sadly not a crime. The ones at fauklt are he govt officials that approved the payment to his pension fund-that size of payment has to be approved by hmrc. Lord myners had to agree to it he was h-not there just to rubber stamp it-how can a bankrupt company affored to pay off it's executives? There is actually pension legislation in place to prevent company directors lobbing money in to a pension fund when they know it is going bankrupt-in other wirds o prevent fraud. Were it not for the actions of fred the shred in insisting on the takeover of abn amro rbos would have been OK.
Agreed, the pension needs to be investigated by the SFO and any appropriate action taken. If it is not taken due to government interference then the people should make damn'd sure that the government fall.
Like you, I thought that it was purely down to ABN Ambro that RBS had the problems that they did but I was talking to one of the senior directors the other day and his take was that RBS were in trouble even without that. Certainly, Fred's blind insistance on carrying the takeover through even after they sold off La Salle and after the market had quite clearly turned made the hole a whole lot deeper.
gmc;1163597 wrote: HBOS is more serious-what kind of idiots (Lloyd TSB() take over a company without looking over the book and knowing exactly what the levels of bad debt were? The monopolies commission would have prevented the merger going through but the geniuses on out government prevented them from interfering.
It's not just effigies of bankers we should be burning it's gordon brown.
It stinks of government pressure and a stitch-up. One wonders who will end up sitting in the upper house?
gmc;1163597 wrote: No n=but you can understand it in this case. If the justice system can do nothing then people feel they have to do something themselves. I don't thin gordon brown and the other tossers understand how angry people are about all of this.
I can understand how the people have been manipulated into doing it by the media's demonisation of one man as the epitome of the problem egged on by a government desparate to divert attention away from their own failings.
In no way can I condone it or accept it without criticizm.
No, but the thread title does
gmc;1163597 wrote: He has committed a crime but making a company bankrupt through sheer stupif=dity is sadly not a crime. The ones at fauklt are he govt officials that approved the payment to his pension fund-that size of payment has to be approved by hmrc. Lord myners had to agree to it he was h-not there just to rubber stamp it-how can a bankrupt company affored to pay off it's executives? There is actually pension legislation in place to prevent company directors lobbing money in to a pension fund when they know it is going bankrupt-in other wirds o prevent fraud. Were it not for the actions of fred the shred in insisting on the takeover of abn amro rbos would have been OK.
Agreed, the pension needs to be investigated by the SFO and any appropriate action taken. If it is not taken due to government interference then the people should make damn'd sure that the government fall.
Like you, I thought that it was purely down to ABN Ambro that RBS had the problems that they did but I was talking to one of the senior directors the other day and his take was that RBS were in trouble even without that. Certainly, Fred's blind insistance on carrying the takeover through even after they sold off La Salle and after the market had quite clearly turned made the hole a whole lot deeper.
gmc;1163597 wrote: HBOS is more serious-what kind of idiots (Lloyd TSB() take over a company without looking over the book and knowing exactly what the levels of bad debt were? The monopolies commission would have prevented the merger going through but the geniuses on out government prevented them from interfering.
It's not just effigies of bankers we should be burning it's gordon brown.
It stinks of government pressure and a stitch-up. One wonders who will end up sitting in the upper house?
gmc;1163597 wrote: No n=but you can understand it in this case. If the justice system can do nothing then people feel they have to do something themselves. I don't thin gordon brown and the other tossers understand how angry people are about all of this.
I can understand how the people have been manipulated into doing it by the media's demonisation of one man as the epitome of the problem egged on by a government desparate to divert attention away from their own failings.
In no way can I condone it or accept it without criticizm.
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Disgraced Bank of Scotland's Fred Goodwin's home and Mercedes trashed in attack.
gmc;1163650 wrote: Good grief I agree with daily mail journalist
GORDON IS A MORON
I knew I'd get you to read the Daily Mail some-how :wah: And you agree...... even funnier :wah:
GORDON IS A MORON
I knew I'd get you to read the Daily Mail some-how :wah: And you agree...... even funnier :wah:
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Disgraced Bank of Scotland's Fred Goodwin's home and Mercedes trashed in attack.
posted by bryn mawr
No, but the thread title does
:o sorry should have realised it was oscar's fault.:sneaky:
posted by bryn mawr
Agreed, the pension needs to be investigated by the SFO and any appropriate action taken. If it is not taken due to government interference then the people should make damn'd sure that the government fall.
It wasn't fraudulent
FURBS | This is Money
Not necessarily. FURBS are used to finance really big pensions for industry big-wigs when they retire.
And as it happens, one was used to pay for the contentious pension payout to a disgraced Scottish banker.
Sir Fred Goodwin?
Got it in one. Royal Bank of Scotland used a FURBS to ensure that Fred the Shred received his whopping £700,000-a-year payout when he was finally and very politely told his services were no longer needed.
Okay. But what is a FURBS?
It's like an ordinary pension scheme, except that it busts the limit on how big a fund can be and still attract tax benefits. At the moment that limit - the ' lifetime allowance' - is £1.65m.
Goodwin's scheme was worth far, far more. Hence the term 'unapproved': Tax is payable on any lump sum taken from a FURBS, while we mere mortals can take up to a quarter of our pension as a tax-free lump sum.
bit of historical background.
So, what's happening to UURBS and FURBS then?
They could have just sacked him and let him try and sue the bankrupt cmopany he left behind.
Meanwhile in ordinary voter land what's the point in saving
Government says pensioners get 10.4% rate | This is Money
Altogether now GORDON IS A MORON
No, but the thread title does
:o sorry should have realised it was oscar's fault.:sneaky:
posted by bryn mawr
Agreed, the pension needs to be investigated by the SFO and any appropriate action taken. If it is not taken due to government interference then the people should make damn'd sure that the government fall.
It wasn't fraudulent
FURBS | This is Money
Not necessarily. FURBS are used to finance really big pensions for industry big-wigs when they retire.
And as it happens, one was used to pay for the contentious pension payout to a disgraced Scottish banker.
Sir Fred Goodwin?
Got it in one. Royal Bank of Scotland used a FURBS to ensure that Fred the Shred received his whopping £700,000-a-year payout when he was finally and very politely told his services were no longer needed.
Okay. But what is a FURBS?
It's like an ordinary pension scheme, except that it busts the limit on how big a fund can be and still attract tax benefits. At the moment that limit - the ' lifetime allowance' - is £1.65m.
Goodwin's scheme was worth far, far more. Hence the term 'unapproved': Tax is payable on any lump sum taken from a FURBS, while we mere mortals can take up to a quarter of our pension as a tax-free lump sum.
bit of historical background.
So, what's happening to UURBS and FURBS then?
They could have just sacked him and let him try and sue the bankrupt cmopany he left behind.
Meanwhile in ordinary voter land what's the point in saving
Government says pensioners get 10.4% rate | This is Money
Altogether now GORDON IS A MORON
-
gaiusjulii
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:49 pm
Disgraced Bank of Scotland's Fred Goodwin's home and Mercedes trashed in attack.
oscar;1163423 wrote: I would imagine they will trace that very quickly. A possibility that it may have been an internet cafe. I don't know how those things work and if some-one has to log in first.
in most internet cafes your completely anonymous in regards to registering for use of the pc. and if the place that it was sent from had no cctv and a high turn over of customers I find it very unlikely it will lead to much. Although that be said being of the rich and famous i am sure the police will do everything they can to catch the attackers.
in most internet cafes your completely anonymous in regards to registering for use of the pc. and if the place that it was sent from had no cctv and a high turn over of customers I find it very unlikely it will lead to much. Although that be said being of the rich and famous i am sure the police will do everything they can to catch the attackers.
Turn That Frown Upside Down
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Disgraced Bank of Scotland's Fred Goodwin's home and Mercedes trashed in attack.
gaiusjulii;1164046 wrote: in most internet cafes your completely anonymous in regards to registering for use of the pc. and if the place that it was sent from had no cctv and a high turn over of customers I find it very unlikely it will lead to much. Although that be said being of the rich and famous i am sure the police will do everything they can to catch the attackers. Thankyou for that. I have never had the dubious pleasure of using such a facility so i was unsure of how they operated.
Your last comment sounds as if you are disallusioned with our police force some-what. Care to elaborate?
Your last comment sounds as if you are disallusioned with our police force some-what. Care to elaborate?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Disgraced Bank of Scotland's Fred Goodwin's home and Mercedes trashed in attack.
Scrat;1164206 wrote: And what of the scum like Freddie? These people have ruined hard working peoples lives. There are people who have done nothing wrong living in fear, living in fear of not having a place to live, living in fear of losing everything they have worked for.
I don't want to have anarchy in my society but someone has to be held responsible for this disaster we have on our hands. I can't say that scum like him isn't deserving of a little fear too. I have absolutely no faith in the justice system.
I say old chap, isn't that a bit over the top?
What, exactly, has this scum, Freddie, done to put people in fear of losing everything they've worked for?
His part in the collapse of the world economy was to do one takeover too many at a time when the economy was going down the tubes for other reasons. At no point were those with RBS mortgages in fear of losing their homes or those with RBS saving in fear of losing their money and at no point was Fred responsible for the collapse of capitalism.
Yes, some many people must be held accountable for this disaster, both within the banking system and within government, but that does not involve trial by media to make a single bit player the scapegoat for it all.
I don't want to have anarchy in my society but someone has to be held responsible for this disaster we have on our hands. I can't say that scum like him isn't deserving of a little fear too. I have absolutely no faith in the justice system.
I say old chap, isn't that a bit over the top?
What, exactly, has this scum, Freddie, done to put people in fear of losing everything they've worked for?
His part in the collapse of the world economy was to do one takeover too many at a time when the economy was going down the tubes for other reasons. At no point were those with RBS mortgages in fear of losing their homes or those with RBS saving in fear of losing their money and at no point was Fred responsible for the collapse of capitalism.
Yes, some many people must be held accountable for this disaster, both within the banking system and within government, but that does not involve trial by media to make a single bit player the scapegoat for it all.
Disgraced Bank of Scotland's Fred Goodwin's home and Mercedes trashed in attack.
What occurs to me is that democratic capitalism operates by consent, and the people who run it seem to have lost that simple concept somewhere along the line as their personal hubris overwhelmed their judgement.
Thats the real worry now, and why I said 6 months ago that the ultimate issue around the credit crunch was the political one, and that the State itself might find itself in very serious trouble if it didn't do something to assuage people's coming and growing anger, even if the action could be interpreted as something akin to public vengence.
Be under no illusion we are in an economic depression, the world's financial system has collapsed, and its going to be a long hard slog to get countries back to some form of economic solvency. Probably taking 5 years at best, and hoping that the politics of this doesn't throw up some new devilry for us to deal with.
In terms of the political question of extracting some visible proscription on those responsible, cynically put, sometimes its better that the state does it in a controlled way by some form of rough and ready due process, than allow "the people" to get to the point where they feel its acceptable to do it themselves. Read some history if you want to understand the point I am making.
If you think the mood is ugly now, wait until the real personal deleverging really starts, when you have 3, 4 maybe 5 million on the dole in Britain, and not enough money to cover paying for the civil service, the social welfare budget, and the NHS as well as crippling debts, its a very frightening scenario actually.
The most important thing to remember is that we live in free countries, that operate under the rule of law, they are the true inheritance handed down to us by previous generations. It seems that the wealth has been squandered now in some mad Captialist casino parlour game, the masters of the universe turn out to have been men of clay after all, their day is done, allow the inevitable course of natural justice to be followed now and then forget them, it may seem unfair on the individuals responsible, but cest la vie, you lived dangerously and you lost.
So, our prosperity is gone, but we still live in free societies, ruled by law in the interest of all citizens, not plutarchs or oligarchs and that's what we have to try and maintain.
Thats the real worry now, and why I said 6 months ago that the ultimate issue around the credit crunch was the political one, and that the State itself might find itself in very serious trouble if it didn't do something to assuage people's coming and growing anger, even if the action could be interpreted as something akin to public vengence.
Be under no illusion we are in an economic depression, the world's financial system has collapsed, and its going to be a long hard slog to get countries back to some form of economic solvency. Probably taking 5 years at best, and hoping that the politics of this doesn't throw up some new devilry for us to deal with.
In terms of the political question of extracting some visible proscription on those responsible, cynically put, sometimes its better that the state does it in a controlled way by some form of rough and ready due process, than allow "the people" to get to the point where they feel its acceptable to do it themselves. Read some history if you want to understand the point I am making.
If you think the mood is ugly now, wait until the real personal deleverging really starts, when you have 3, 4 maybe 5 million on the dole in Britain, and not enough money to cover paying for the civil service, the social welfare budget, and the NHS as well as crippling debts, its a very frightening scenario actually.
The most important thing to remember is that we live in free countries, that operate under the rule of law, they are the true inheritance handed down to us by previous generations. It seems that the wealth has been squandered now in some mad Captialist casino parlour game, the masters of the universe turn out to have been men of clay after all, their day is done, allow the inevitable course of natural justice to be followed now and then forget them, it may seem unfair on the individuals responsible, but cest la vie, you lived dangerously and you lost.
So, our prosperity is gone, but we still live in free societies, ruled by law in the interest of all citizens, not plutarchs or oligarchs and that's what we have to try and maintain.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Disgraced Bank of Scotland's Fred Goodwin's home and Mercedes trashed in attack.
Scrat;1164380 wrote: Oh I definitely agree with you, we need to tar and feather more than just him. Let's get on with it. 
I think we should be through talking by now find out who the major players are and pluck those chickens!!
I'm very cynical about this right now. Galbally is saying what I was thinking months ago and he is spot on and admittedly more constructive than I right now.
Bryn is absolutely correct in that Sir Fred is being made the scapegoat for the hatred felt towards all the money men. I said this about Sir Fred in another thread a couple of weeks ago.
The media have dubbed him 'Fred the Shred' when the word 'shread' should go to the media and in my eyes, be accountable for aiding and abetting the attack on his home. Of all the bank chiefs who have attributed to the economic collapse here and even in the States, Sir Fred is the one that has been demonised in the media to a point of almost whipping up hysteria about the man.
I think we should be through talking by now find out who the major players are and pluck those chickens!!
I'm very cynical about this right now. Galbally is saying what I was thinking months ago and he is spot on and admittedly more constructive than I right now.
Bryn is absolutely correct in that Sir Fred is being made the scapegoat for the hatred felt towards all the money men. I said this about Sir Fred in another thread a couple of weeks ago.
The media have dubbed him 'Fred the Shred' when the word 'shread' should go to the media and in my eyes, be accountable for aiding and abetting the attack on his home. Of all the bank chiefs who have attributed to the economic collapse here and even in the States, Sir Fred is the one that has been demonised in the media to a point of almost whipping up hysteria about the man.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Disgraced Bank of Scotland's Fred Goodwin's home and Mercedes trashed in attack.
Scrat;1164693 wrote: I agree with you both. I have my mop, my 50 gallon drum of tar and truckload of feathers. All you have to do is line them up, I'll do my part. 
It'just been reported that Sir Fred has fled......... he could be heading your way :wah:
It'just been reported that Sir Fred has fled......... he could be heading your way :wah:At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Disgraced Bank of Scotland's Fred Goodwin's home and Mercedes trashed in attack.
oscar;1164426 wrote: Bryn is absolutely correct in that Sir Fred is being made the scapegoat for the hatred felt towards all the money men. I said this about Sir Fred in another thread a couple of weeks ago.
The media have dubbed him 'Fred the Shred' when the word 'shread' should go to the media and in my eyes, be accountable for aiding and abetting the attack on his home. Of all the bank chiefs who have attributed to the economic collapse here and even in the States, Sir Fred is the one that has been demonised in the media to a point of almost whipping up hysteria about the man.
Yes, he is being scapegoated to a certain extent, but then he is also responsible for what has happened, he is directly responsible, he was the boss of RBS when it was doing things that undermined centuries of patient growth in a couple of years of madness. So he should be pilloried, the problem is that its not just "Sir Fred" its his board, his senior staff, and the boards and senior management of all of the major banks, the LSE, the BOE, the major financial houses, and the government and senior civil service as well. So the point is not that Fred should be singled out, they should all receive the same treatment if you ask me, they are a bunch of hubristic greedy, arrogant, honourless, shameless sons of b*tches and they are going to get a lot less punishment than they actually deserve, but due process and poltical practicality and all of that.
If some people are not made directly responsible for the consequences of their actions then the public will take those consequences out on the lot of them, these people have really economically destroyed my nation, your nation, and many others; its the truth, they did this, and we let them do it. Perhaps general civil unrest will become inevitable once the full impact sets in and the realization of what that means become apparent. Many feel that this would be the best course of action as it seems to be the only way to wake the people at the top wake up and stop selling away our birthright as free peoples, for some economic neo-liberal fad thats killing democracy, civic society, and public morality while also crippling us in more and more and more debt.
I am unsure where its all going, but I have no doubt that the times, well, they are a changing. Also I wouldn't feel that sorry for Fred, he may have to leave the country, but I presume he will simply be moving to another mansion in the south of France and his children will be going to private schools over there. When my dad lost his job in 1980 we ended up having to emigrate back to Ireland and living in a 200 year old gate house with no running water or indoor toilet for 9 months before we got a crappy council house and my dad never worked again, so my "compassion" for Fred is somewhat limited, he is the author of his own downfall, I am sure he won't too badly off, despite having destroyed the pensions and security of thousands of his fellow citizens, he should be ashamed of himself.
The media have dubbed him 'Fred the Shred' when the word 'shread' should go to the media and in my eyes, be accountable for aiding and abetting the attack on his home. Of all the bank chiefs who have attributed to the economic collapse here and even in the States, Sir Fred is the one that has been demonised in the media to a point of almost whipping up hysteria about the man.
Yes, he is being scapegoated to a certain extent, but then he is also responsible for what has happened, he is directly responsible, he was the boss of RBS when it was doing things that undermined centuries of patient growth in a couple of years of madness. So he should be pilloried, the problem is that its not just "Sir Fred" its his board, his senior staff, and the boards and senior management of all of the major banks, the LSE, the BOE, the major financial houses, and the government and senior civil service as well. So the point is not that Fred should be singled out, they should all receive the same treatment if you ask me, they are a bunch of hubristic greedy, arrogant, honourless, shameless sons of b*tches and they are going to get a lot less punishment than they actually deserve, but due process and poltical practicality and all of that.
If some people are not made directly responsible for the consequences of their actions then the public will take those consequences out on the lot of them, these people have really economically destroyed my nation, your nation, and many others; its the truth, they did this, and we let them do it. Perhaps general civil unrest will become inevitable once the full impact sets in and the realization of what that means become apparent. Many feel that this would be the best course of action as it seems to be the only way to wake the people at the top wake up and stop selling away our birthright as free peoples, for some economic neo-liberal fad thats killing democracy, civic society, and public morality while also crippling us in more and more and more debt.
I am unsure where its all going, but I have no doubt that the times, well, they are a changing. Also I wouldn't feel that sorry for Fred, he may have to leave the country, but I presume he will simply be moving to another mansion in the south of France and his children will be going to private schools over there. When my dad lost his job in 1980 we ended up having to emigrate back to Ireland and living in a 200 year old gate house with no running water or indoor toilet for 9 months before we got a crappy council house and my dad never worked again, so my "compassion" for Fred is somewhat limited, he is the author of his own downfall, I am sure he won't too badly off, despite having destroyed the pensions and security of thousands of his fellow citizens, he should be ashamed of himself.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Disgraced Bank of Scotland's Fred Goodwin's home and Mercedes trashed in attack.
Galbally;1164940 wrote: Yes, he is being scapegoated to a certain extent, but then he is also responsible for what has happened, he is directly responsible, he was the boss of RBS when it was doing things that undermined centuries of patient growth in a couple of years of madness. So he should be pilloried, the problem is that its not just "Sir Fred" its his board, his senior staff, and the boards and senior management of all of the major banks, the LSE, the BOE, the major financial houses, and the government and senior civil service as well. So the point is not that Fred should be singled out, they should all receive the same treatment if you ask me, they are a bunch of hubristic greedy, arrogant, honourless, shameless sons of b*tches and they are going to get a lot less punishment than they actually deserve, but due process and poltical practicality and all of that.
If some people are not made directly responsible for the consequences of their actions then the public will take those consequences out on the lot of them, these people have really economically destroyed my nation, your nation, and many others; its the truth, they did this, and we let them do it. Perhaps general civil unrest will become inevitable once the full impact sets in and the realization of what that means become apparent. Many feel that this would be the best course of action as it seems to be the only way to wake the people at the top wake up and stop selling away our birthright as free peoples, for some economic neo-liberal fad thats killing democracy, civic society, and public morality while also crippling us in more and more and more debt.
I am unsure where its all going, but I have no doubt that the times, well, they are a changing. Also I wouldn't feel that sorry for Fred, he may have to leave the country, but I presume he will simply be moving to another mansion in the south of France and his children will be going to private schools over there. When my dad lost his job in 1980 we ended up having to emigrate back to Ireland and living in a 200 year old gate house with no running water or indoor toilet for 9 months before we got a crappy council house and my dad never worked again, so my "compassion" for Fred is somewhat limited, he is the author of his own downfall, I am sure he won't too badly off, despite having destroyed the pensions and security of thousands of his fellow citizens, he should be ashamed of himself.
Yes, he is to blame along with others but you are doing the same as the media here. Blame the guys at the top and refuse to address the wider issue as it's far easier.
I have said this on other threads but Greedy banks lend to greedy people full stop. Instead of concentrating on pilloring Fred, what about these idiots who are consumer minded?
The government needs to change the bankrupcy laws so the likes of my neighbour can not walk into a court, file bankruptcy and walk out not owing a penny leaving the government and tax payers to pick up the tab? The law needs changing because there is no accountability any more. I'm in favour of a new 'Newgate Jail' for debtors. These people can get credit and start a new business within five years under the present law.
No body puts a gun to their heads and forces them to spend the credit to the max. It is reckless borrowing by the reckless. When it goes tits up , let's blame the guy at the top eh? And while were at it, let's get all white and spitefull because he's got a nice house and a merc.
If some people are not made directly responsible for the consequences of their actions then the public will take those consequences out on the lot of them, these people have really economically destroyed my nation, your nation, and many others; its the truth, they did this, and we let them do it. Perhaps general civil unrest will become inevitable once the full impact sets in and the realization of what that means become apparent. Many feel that this would be the best course of action as it seems to be the only way to wake the people at the top wake up and stop selling away our birthright as free peoples, for some economic neo-liberal fad thats killing democracy, civic society, and public morality while also crippling us in more and more and more debt.
I am unsure where its all going, but I have no doubt that the times, well, they are a changing. Also I wouldn't feel that sorry for Fred, he may have to leave the country, but I presume he will simply be moving to another mansion in the south of France and his children will be going to private schools over there. When my dad lost his job in 1980 we ended up having to emigrate back to Ireland and living in a 200 year old gate house with no running water or indoor toilet for 9 months before we got a crappy council house and my dad never worked again, so my "compassion" for Fred is somewhat limited, he is the author of his own downfall, I am sure he won't too badly off, despite having destroyed the pensions and security of thousands of his fellow citizens, he should be ashamed of himself.
Yes, he is to blame along with others but you are doing the same as the media here. Blame the guys at the top and refuse to address the wider issue as it's far easier.
I have said this on other threads but Greedy banks lend to greedy people full stop. Instead of concentrating on pilloring Fred, what about these idiots who are consumer minded?
The government needs to change the bankrupcy laws so the likes of my neighbour can not walk into a court, file bankruptcy and walk out not owing a penny leaving the government and tax payers to pick up the tab? The law needs changing because there is no accountability any more. I'm in favour of a new 'Newgate Jail' for debtors. These people can get credit and start a new business within five years under the present law.
No body puts a gun to their heads and forces them to spend the credit to the max. It is reckless borrowing by the reckless. When it goes tits up , let's blame the guy at the top eh? And while were at it, let's get all white and spitefull because he's got a nice house and a merc.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Disgraced Bank of Scotland's Fred Goodwin's home and Mercedes trashed in attack.
oscar;1165053 wrote: Yes, he is to blame along with others but you are doing the same as the media here. Blame the guys at the top and refuse to address the wider issue as it's far easier.
I have said this on other threads but Greedy banks lend to greedy people full stop. Instead of concentrating on pilloring Fred, what about these idiots who are consumer minded?
The government needs to change the bankrupcy laws so the likes of my neighbour can not walk into a court, file bankruptcy and walk out not owing a penny leaving the government and tax payers to pick up the tab? The law needs changing because there is no accountability any more. I'm in favour of a new 'Newgate Jail' for debtors. These people can get credit and start a new business within five years under the present law.
No body puts a gun to their heads and forces them to spend the credit to the max. It is reckless borrowing by the reckless. When it goes tits up , let's blame the guy at the top eh? And while were at it, let's get all white and spitefull because he's got a nice house and a merc.
No I agree with you, its not just the guys at the top, but, if you take on a position with massive responsibility like that, voluntarily, you accept all the rewards it brings, and all of that; its a bit unrealistic to not expect that your not going to cop it, or think that you don't deserve to cop it, if it all goes wrong.
Thats the whole point of being responsible and in charge, there isn't much point having people in charge who have so little honour that when they make mistakes that cause everything to go wrong, they will not take the downside of responsibility which is accpeting that, well, your responsible. Don't you see that?
Sir Fred had it coming, no one forced him to be the boss of HBOS, no one forced him to make the policy decisions that he did, no one forced him to accumlate so much wealth, he chose all of those things and lauded himself for doing it as well, now he can go live with the consequences, just like the rest of us have to, I won't be crying any tears for him.
I do think that yes, there is a collective responsibility upon us all to do the right things, and we get the leaders we deserve, but also in a democracy, leadership is voluntary, and if you aren't capable of taking the consequences of being a leader, then you have no job being in that position in the first place. At this stage, I would actually proscribe the lot of them, take all of their assets and distribute them to needy people, just to set an example to everyone else who is wealthy and powerful that are not untouchable and they shouldn't act like they are, or else.
Like the old British axiom goes, sometimes there is no harm in hanging a few Admirals to set an example for all the rest to make sure they don't try and run away in the face of the enemy.
I have said this on other threads but Greedy banks lend to greedy people full stop. Instead of concentrating on pilloring Fred, what about these idiots who are consumer minded?
The government needs to change the bankrupcy laws so the likes of my neighbour can not walk into a court, file bankruptcy and walk out not owing a penny leaving the government and tax payers to pick up the tab? The law needs changing because there is no accountability any more. I'm in favour of a new 'Newgate Jail' for debtors. These people can get credit and start a new business within five years under the present law.
No body puts a gun to their heads and forces them to spend the credit to the max. It is reckless borrowing by the reckless. When it goes tits up , let's blame the guy at the top eh? And while were at it, let's get all white and spitefull because he's got a nice house and a merc.
No I agree with you, its not just the guys at the top, but, if you take on a position with massive responsibility like that, voluntarily, you accept all the rewards it brings, and all of that; its a bit unrealistic to not expect that your not going to cop it, or think that you don't deserve to cop it, if it all goes wrong.
Thats the whole point of being responsible and in charge, there isn't much point having people in charge who have so little honour that when they make mistakes that cause everything to go wrong, they will not take the downside of responsibility which is accpeting that, well, your responsible. Don't you see that?
Sir Fred had it coming, no one forced him to be the boss of HBOS, no one forced him to make the policy decisions that he did, no one forced him to accumlate so much wealth, he chose all of those things and lauded himself for doing it as well, now he can go live with the consequences, just like the rest of us have to, I won't be crying any tears for him.
I do think that yes, there is a collective responsibility upon us all to do the right things, and we get the leaders we deserve, but also in a democracy, leadership is voluntary, and if you aren't capable of taking the consequences of being a leader, then you have no job being in that position in the first place. At this stage, I would actually proscribe the lot of them, take all of their assets and distribute them to needy people, just to set an example to everyone else who is wealthy and powerful that are not untouchable and they shouldn't act like they are, or else.
Like the old British axiom goes, sometimes there is no harm in hanging a few Admirals to set an example for all the rest to make sure they don't try and run away in the face of the enemy.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.