Does Religion Breed Ignorance?

[Daniyal]

( Here's some church for you... )



When You Look At Religion In These Modern

Days And Times With All Of The Advanced

Technology, Most Of What Were Miracles In

The Bible And The Koran, Scientists Are

Performing In Laboratories Today.



For Instance,



* Controlling The Weather,



* The Immaculate Conception Or Birth Without Two Partners,



* The Altering Of Molecules,



* Hovering In The Air,



*The Resuscitation Or Bringing People Back Who Had Died,



And I Can Go On.



So You Have To

Look And See What Purpose Does Religion Play

In The World Today.

Lets Take A Look At Just

What Religion Breeds:



• Racism

• Hatred

• Separation

• Ignorance

• War



In Fact...

You Can Not Name A Conflict In The

World That Does Not Involve Religion And The

Millions Upon Millions Of Innocent People That

Die in The Cross Fire.



Just Take A Look At The

Muslim World And How They Justify Terrorism

In The Name Of Allah And The Koran.



Look At

The Jewish World...



The Zionist Movements And

How They Justify Terrorism In The Name Of

Their God, As Well As The Many Christian

Countries. They Are All Involved In The Same

Thing.



The Bombing Of Hiroshima And

Nagasaki And Many Other Massacres Were

Done In The Name Of Christianity.



Each Religion Or Group Feels That They Have

The Right To Own God And That Their

Particular Religion And Religious Practices Are

Right And Everybody Else Is Wrong.



This Is A

Very Narrow-Minded Way To Think Because

No One Is Always Right And No One Is Always

Wrong.



Thus, Everybody Else Is A Goy (Hebrew Word For Gentile)

As It Is Referred To In

Leviticus 26:45...



“But I Will For Their Sakes

Remember The Covenant Of Their Ancestors

Whom I Brought Forth Out Of The Land Of

Egypt In The Sight Of The ( Heathen That

I Might Be Their God: I Am The Lord”.



A Gentile Or A Kafir ( A Disbelieving

Infidel (Koran 2:34, Chapter 109), Or

Whatever Name Other Religions Use, What

People Who Are Not Of their Particular

Persuasion Are Called, Thus Justifying Killing

Them.



For Instance, Right In The New

Testament In Matthew 15:26, And I Quote,



“But He (Jesus Answered And Said It Is Not Meet

To Take The Children Bread And To Cast It

To Kunarion Dogs".



Where Jesus

Refers To A Woman As A Dog.



In The Koran

5:60 And 2:65 In Part



“And They Said To

Them Be Ye Qirada Apes Disposed And

Rejected...,”



Where Allah Turns People Into

Apes And (Khanzir) a Swine Because

They Were Not Of The Same Religion And

Didn’t Keep The Religious Laws Of That Group.



I Think It Is Very Sad When Religious People

Will Accept A God That Has Reduced Himself

To Calling People Names.



Religion Refuses To Acknowledge Scientific

Evidence About How Old The Planet Is And

How Long Man Has Been In Existence.



Religion

Has Created Their Own Calendars To Alter

Time!!!

[Daniyal]

Groups Like

* Jehovah’s Witnesses

* Masons

* Sevenths Day Adventist

* The Nation Of Islam.

* etc...



All Of These Are Forms Of Christianity,



Believe It Or Not.



All Of These

Religions Are Trying To Speed Up And Get You

Out Of That

“Old Time Religion”,

As It Is Called, That Old Christian Concept.

To The Non-Holding Steadfast...

That Southern Baptist

Church You Gather On Sunday Together With A

Tambourine And Sing And You Wait For Jesus.



When You Became A Christian You Got Caught In A Time Zone.

That Was Your Mistake.

Whether You Know It Or Not, You Stopped

Functioning 2,000 Years Ago.



You Base

Everything On Events That Took Place Around

2,000 Years Ago. They Say

“That's When God Came"

And Then You Go On To Claim That

He’s Coming Back.



You Walk Around In

Churches Not Going Any Further Or Making

Any Real Progress Because You’re Waiting For

His Return.



However,



The Pastor And The Elder

Whom You Put Your Faith In...

Keep's You Bound

To The Church Because He Keeps Saying

“We Are Progressing”.

But What They Don’t Tell You Is That It Is

Impossible To Progress With A 2,000 Year Old

Religion. And If You Think Your Preachers

Don’t Know This Then You Are Fooling

Yourselves.



Religion Is An Escape From Reality

And The Tool Of The Weak, What I Mean By

This Is, Religion Keeps You Aspiring For A

Place Called Heaven Which Is Intangible. And

There Are No Guarantees That You Are Going

There And What Is Even More Heartbreaking Is

That You Will Have To Die Or You Will Have

To Go Through Trials And Tribulations Before

You Can Go There.



Millionaires And

‘Successful’ People Are Not Religious People.

For Example,

Michael Jackson

Was A Jehovah Witness

Until He Became A Millionaire.

Because

Of The Many Restrictions Of The Religion, He

Couldn’t Continue To Be A Member.



Michael

Realized That He Would not have Been Able To Make

Millions Of Dollars And Live As Comfortable

As He Wanted.



And As You Can See He Is Still

A Millionaire Without Being A Devout Jehovah’s

Witness.



So What Does That Say About The

God Of The Jehovah Witnesses?

[Daniyal]

Does Religion Breeds Ignorance

Continues...



In The Case Of The

* Israelites

* Jews

* Hebrews

* Seventh Day

* Adventists

* Pentecostals

* Catholics

And Other Christians Groups Or The

Mohammedans, Muslims, Muslims By Whatever

Sect Or Anything You Want To Call

Yourselves, Are Caught In A 1,400 Year Time Zone.



You're Living Back 1,400 Years - Missing Reality, Ignoring Advancement

As Well As Developments. You Are Pretending

That You Don't See All Of These Scientific Discoveries And Archaeological

Findings.





You're Doing What The People Did

1,400 Years Ago, In The Case Of A Muslim.





The Only Difference Is Now You Are Calling It The Sunned Or Traditions.

But In Reality, It's Their Way Of Life; Meaning

Desert Arabs Of 1,400 Years Ago Who Lived In The Arabian Peninsula.

Now Here You Are Living In America In The 20th

Century Like You're In Some Kind Of Movie Setting Out Of The Arabian

Nights.





The Sooner You Let Go Of The Past And That Way Of Life And Catch Up

With Time,

The Better Off You're Going To Be.





You're Caught Back There 1,400 Years And Won't Progress. There Isn't

Much A 2,000 Year Old Religion Like Christianity

Can Do For You; Not To Mention Judaism That Is 6,000 Years Old And

People Are Parading Around Masquerading.





They Are Locked In A Time Zone And Believe Me I Know Because I Lived

In That Same Time Warp. But It's Not Fair To The

Children Being Born To These Fanatics. It Just Messes Up Their Lives And

Makes Things Difficult For Them. It Cuts Them

Off From Reality And Deprives Them Of A Normal Childhood.





As You Can See All Your Arabs From Whatever Arab Country, Whether it

is Saudis Arabia, Egypt, Somali, Sudan, Syria,

Kuwait, Jordan, Iraq, Turkey Or Any Other Country, All Had To Come

Over Here To America. And I Mean All Of Their

Religious Leaders And Political Leaders Come To The United States Of

America By Way Of England In Order To Get

"Infidel" As They Call It, Technology, To Move Forward.

They Buy Technology From The Japanese. They Buy Technology From

The Germans.



IGNORANCE=IGNORING THE FACTS

[Daniyal]

They Buy Technology From America. Because 1,400 Years Ago,

When The Prophet Mustafa Muhammad Al Amin,

Who Was Born In The

Year 570 A.D. And Gave Birth To The Muhammadan Religion And Gave

Them His Family Idol Allat Which Later

Became Known As Allah

He Wrote Their Holy Book,

The Koran, Copying From The Christian's Bible Which They Call Al Injiyl

And The Jewish Bible Which They Call At Tawraat And Made Up Their

Newly Found Sect Of Catholicism Now Called Islam,

But Submerged It

Into The Arabian Culture Of That Day Being 1,400 Years Ago, They Are

Locked There.



And If They Attempt To Advance Or Improve It's Called

Innovation.

They Are Classified As Someone Trying To Change Their

Traditions And This Person Or Persons Will Be Put To Death And Called A

Munafiqawna A Hypocrite Or A Kaafiruwna (,,,9j-iIs), Disbeliever. Thus

They Are Trapped.



When You Walk Down The Street Today And See A

Sunni Muslim,

Whether He's Sunni, Shiite Or Whatever Sect He Belongs To, They Are

Walking Around In America With Turbans, Tagiyyas, Qamises And

Jalabiyas Like They Did 1,400 Years Ago.

He Is Locked In A 1,400 Year

Time Zone.



The General Information Of The Orthodox Muslims Hasn't Changed.

That Means That 1,400 Years Of Research And Information Has Changed.

If They Decide To Stay In This Dead Religion Called Judaism,

Christianity,

Islaam, Buddhism, Hinduism And In Other "Isms" You Can Think Of,

Means They Will Have To Ignore Reality.

By This I Mean, There Have

Been Archaeological Finds Dating Back Millions Of Years Proving There

Was Life Before 6,000 Years Ago According To

Judaism, 2,000 Years Ago

According To Christianity And 1,400 Years Ago According To Islaam. Do

You Follow What I'm Saying?

The Information That Was Passed Down

1,400 Years Ago Was Good For The People 1,400 Years Ago And For

Those People Who Lived In That Time Period.

[Daniyal]

What Religion Breeds:



• Racism

• Hatred

• Separation

• Ignorance

• War



Does Religion Breed Ignorance?

M.Z.York

[Clodhopper]

Agree with a lot of this. Though I don't think the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a matter of religious war, it was race war.

Religion, like a gun, is neutral but dangerous. It is the use made of it which is good or evil.

So religion can breed ignorance, as a look at any fundamentalist cult will show; but it can also conserve and spread knowledge, which is what happened with the European Christian Church after the Fall of Rome.

[Amber Sun]

Clodhopper;1133919 wrote: Agree with a lot of this. Though I don't think the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a matter of religious war, it was race war.

Religion, like a gun, is neutral but dangerous. It is the use made of it which is good or evil.

So religion can breed ignorance, as a look at any fundamentalist cult will show; but it can also conserve and spread knowledge, which is what happened with the European Christian Church after the Fall of Rome.



Would you please explain this in greater depth CH? I am in complete agreement with you but want to know why you believe it.

[Amber Sun]

Daniyal;1133792 wrote: What Religion Breeds:



• Racism

• Hatred

• Separation

• Ignorance

• War



Does Religion Breed Ignorance?

M.Z.York


I am in total agreement with all of this Daniyal. A very good thread.

[Clodhopper]

Would you please explain this in greater depth CH? I am in complete agreement with you but want to know why you believe it.


I'll do my best. But this is a huuuuuuge topic....

Ok. Rome fell as a result of the westward migration of tribes and the collapse of her internal institutions - the inability to hand power on to the next generation without civil war being a key factor. By this time Rome was Christian. I don't know what was happening in the the East of Asia, but in the west basically the Huns moved west, forcing the Goths, Vandals, Franks, Magyar, and lord knows who else west across the Rhine and south across the Danube (which more or less marked the European boundary of the Roman Empire). When Rome fell there were rich Gaullish and British Provinces(for example) left undefended, and the Saxons piled into Britain for loot and land, the Franks into Gaul, and other tribes did the same elsewhere. The result was the complete collapse of civil society.

However, there was a parallel ecclesiastical society based around monasteries, which had flourished in the Pax Romana and whose structure survived based around the authority of the early Popes. Many of these monasteries were sacked and the monks killed or enslaved, but some survived and continued copying books - usually the Bible, but other things as well. Even in the sacked monasteries there were usually survivors who continued to work. They didn't necessarily produce much at this time, but they kept the idea of writing and scholarship alive. We are talking pretty basic stuff.

Once these barbarian tribes settled down the Popes began to send missionaries to convert the heathen, with considerable success. Rome fell in 410 AD (well, that's the accepted date. It was a long process) but three hundred years later there was - just one example - a sizeable monastic foundation at Jarrow and Wearmouth where a monk called Bede published his Ecclesiastical Historyof the English People

I have very little information on what happened in the "missing" 300 odd years. They are called "The Dark Ages" for a reason! Basically the British tribes such as the Brigante and the Belgae were pushed into Wales and Cornwall and the Angles, Saxons and Jutes settled, sometimes intermarrying, sometimes wiping out the native inhabitants. No-one had much time for keeping written records, they were trying to stay alive.

But by 731 monasteries in England and France were established and producing works of scholarship. The Church was the only institution that had survived THROUGH the whole period and had preserved the skill of writing through ten generations when these skills were not used in secular society. And not only writing! They preserved Latin as the common tongue of Europe, which gave access to the great Romans like Tacitus or Virgil, they preserved Greek in some places, Roman Law and some basic maths, to give some examples. North African Bishops appointed to England brought a more advanced music with them, and a primitive form of musical notation (better than anything that existed here).

Because the Church was Pan-European, knowledge could move around geographically through the Church.

Ok, that'll do as a starting point!

[Amber Sun]

Clodhopper;1133947 wrote: I'll do my best. But this is a huuuuuuge topic....

Ok. Rome fell as a result of the westward migration of tribes and the collapse of her internal institutions - the inability to hand power on to the next generation without civil war being a key factor. By this time Rome was Christian. I don't know what was happening in the the East of Asia, but in the west basically the Huns moved west, forcing the Goths, Vandals, Franks, Magyar, and lord knows who else west across the Rhine and south across the Danube (which more or less marked the European boundary of the Roman Empire). When Rome fell there were rich Gaullish and British Provinces(for example) left undefended, and the Saxons piled into Britain for loot and land, the Franks into Gaul, and other tribes did the same elsewhere. The result was the complete collapse of civil society.

However, there was a parallel ecclesiastical society based around monasteries, which had flourished in the Pax Romana and whose structure survived based around the authority of the early Popes. Many of these monasteries were sacked and the monks killed or enslaved, but some survived and continued copying books - usually the Bible, but other things as well. Even in the sacked monasteries there were usually survivors who continued to work. They didn't necessarily produce much at this time, but they kept the idea of writing and scholarship alive. We are talking pretty basic stuff.

Once these barbarian tribes settled down the Popes began to send missionaries to convert the heathen, with considerable success. Rome fell in 410 AD (well, that's the accepted date. It was a long process) but three hundred years later there was - just one example - a sizeable monastic foundation at Jarrow and Wearmouth where a monk called Bede published his Ecclesiastical Historyof the English People

I have very little information on what happened in the "missing" 300 odd years. They are called "The Dark Ages" for a reason! Basically the British tribes such as the Brigante and the Belgae were pushed into Wales and Cornwall and the Angles, Saxons and Jutes settled, sometimes intermarrying, sometimes wiping out the native inhabitants. No-one had much time for keeping written records, they were trying to stay alive.

But by 731 monasteries in England and France were established and producing works of scholarship. The Church was the only institution that had survived THROUGH the whole period and had preserved the skill of writing through ten generations when these skills were not used in secular society. And not only writing! They preserved Latin as the common tongue of Europe, which gave access to the great Romans like Tacitus or Virgil, they preserved Greek in some places, Roman Law and some basic maths, to give some examples. North African Bishops appointed to England brought a more advanced music with them, and a primitive form of musical notation (better than anything that existed here).

Because the Church was Pan-European, knowledge could move around geographically through the Church.

Ok, that'll do as a starting point!


OK hun, thanks for explaining. I too agree that the church was crucial in retaining old knowledge, but for a different reason altogether. I have to meet my daughter shortly so will have to log off. But if you would like to know my reasons for the above please see my page (blog) here on FG. You would have to read it through to the end though to understand.

[Chookie]

Clodhopper;1133947 wrote: I have very little information on what happened in the "missing" 300 odd years. They are called "The Dark Ages" for a reason!


Ireland never had a "Dark Age", in fact that was the period of Irelands' "Golden Age".

Clodhopper;1133947 wrote: Basically the British tribes such as the Brigante and the Belgae were pushed into Wales and Cornwall and the Angles, Saxons and Jutes settled, sometimes intermarrying, sometimes wiping out the native inhabitants.


That's a bit simplistic, The Brigantes occupied north-east England (what became the kingdom of Northumbia). The Belgae held the Devon/Dorset area, so they were pretty near being in Cornwall anyway.

Clodhopper;1133947 wrote: No-one had much time for keeping written records, they were trying to stay alive.


Besides, they were essentially pre-literate (not illiterate) societies.

Clodhopper;1133947 wrote: And not only writing! They preserved Latin as the common tongue of Europe, which gave access to the great Romans like Tacitus or Virgil, they preserved Greek in some places, Roman Law and some basic maths


Tacitus? Great?? On your point about "some basic maths" - Stonehenge - to take one example - wasn't built with "basic maths".

Clodhopper;1133947 wrote: Because the Church was Pan-European, knowledge could move around geographically through the Church.


I'll disagree seriously here. The Church wasn't Pan-European. Christianity was, but it was also wide-spread around the Mediterranean/ North Africa/ East Asia.

[OpenMind]

Religion is like a devout form of nazi politics.

[Clodhopper]

Ireland never had a "Dark Age", in fact that was the period of Irelands' "Golden Age".


I heard the Vikings did a pretty fair job of Ireland a few hundred years later, and the Celtic Church was losing influence to the Roman at this time. Dating of Easter a big issue, and the Celtic Church lost the argument.

That's a bit simplistic, The Brigantes occupied north-east England (what became the kingdom of Northumbia). The Belgae held the Devon/Dorset area, so they were pretty near being in Cornwall anyway.


That's bit picky isn't it? I was trying to give a quick flavour of what was going on, and you're having a go at me for being about right?

Besides, they were essentially pre-literate (not illiterate) societies.


Agreed. Runes excepted. Knowledge of writing therefore held by the Church...

Tacitus? Great??

Can't help it if you prefer Ovid!

On your point about "some basic maths" - Stonehenge - to take one example - wasn't built with "basic maths".

Granted. But they weren't trying to build Stonehenge while their culture was collapsing around them with the withdrawal of the Legions and Saxon raids and settlement. They were trying to stay alive.

I'll disagree seriously here. The Church wasn't Pan-European. Christianity was, but it was also wide-spread around the Mediterranean/ North Africa/ East Asia.


It was pan European enough that Hadrian - described by Bede as based in a monastery near Naples but of African race - and Theodore - described as from Cilicia - were sent to England in 668 AD. I grant you I was loose in my definition of Europe but I think it is fair to note that the Catholic Church had a wide and enduring reach to be able to transfer personnel between such diverse locations (I think I recall Theodore being based in N.Africa at this time, not Cilicia, though I'm not 100% sure about that, but there were certainly concerns about him introducing "Greek heresies" :wah:)

[Daniyal]

Amber Sun;1133927 wrote: I am in total agreement with all of this Daniyal. A very good thread.




Thankyou very much

[Lon]

I think Ignorance Breeds Religion rather than Religion Breeding Ignorance.

[Clodhopper]

Lon: :yh_rotfl Nicely put: whole viewpoint in a nutshell!

[Daniyal]

Belief & Believe" are two of the most deceptive words in religion. Belief is ignorance. Belief is to ignore the facts, intentionally or ignorantly. If one has to believe, it means he or she does not know, and if one does not know, that is ignorance. Anyone can believe anything and this means that a person can believe, and be 100% wrong. But knowledge is knowing and knowledge is correct information. "To know" gives one confidence, but belief infers doubt. To believe is to accept things that you do don't know .Either you know or you don't. Once you know - then you no longer have to believe and belief is the fuel of most religions.



A - Ask ( Psalms 2 ; 8 , Matthew 21 ; 22 , Mark 6 ; 22 , 1John 3 ; 22 , 1 John 5 ; 15

S - Seek ( Psalms 27 ; 4 , 1Chr 28 ; 9 , 2Chr 34 ; 4 , Romans 3 ; 11 )

K - Knock ( Revelation 3 ; 20 )

[Clodhopper]

Belief & Believe" are two of the most deceptive words in religion. Belief is ignorance. Belief is to ignore the facts, intentionally or ignorantly. If one has to believe, it means he or she does not know, and if one does not know, that is ignorance. Anyone can believe anything and this means that a person can believe, and be 100% wrong. But knowledge is knowing and knowledge is correct information. "To know" gives one confidence, but belief infers doubt. To believe is to accept things that you do don't know .Either you know or you don't. Once you know - then you no longer have to believe and belief is the fuel of most religions.


It is also possible to believe you know, and be completely wrong, because some fact you base your certainty on is not quite as you think it, and your logic perhaps not as secure as you believe it. Belief is also a state that occurs after the facts have been studied or the experience analysed; but can also involve an awareness that there may be other data which may prove one wrong - provisional belief.

"Certainty" all too often becomes the "state of the closed mind."

[Daniyal]

Clodhopper;1136046 wrote: It is also possible to believe you know, and be completely wrong, because some fact you base your certainty on is not quite as you think it, and your logic perhaps not as secure as you believe it. Belief is also a state that occurs after the facts have been studied or the experience analysed; but can also involve an awareness that there may be other data which may prove one wrong - provisional belief.

"Certainty" all too often becomes the "state of the closed mind."


Coming From A Person Who Have As Of Yet Proven Anything I Have Post To Be Wrong . Like I Said You Need My ( Ok ) To Make Yourself Whole . That's Why You Keep Following Me Around . English / England If Only I Could Write A Post About You So-call His -Story And Not Get A Warning . We'll See Who Closed Minded / Brainwash . :wah::wah: I Must Have Really Hit A Nerve For You Feel The Need To Impress Me .



I See You Down There You Got It Bad Don't You ?

[Clodhopper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodhopper

It is also possible to believe you know, and be completely wrong, because some fact you base your certainty on is not quite as you think it, and your logic perhaps not as secure as you believe it. Belief is also a state that occurs after the facts have been studied or the experience analysed; but can also involve an awareness that there may be other data which may prove one wrong - provisional belief.

"Certainty" all too often becomes the "state of the closed mind."



Coming From A Person Who Have As Of Yet Proven Anything I Have Post To Be Wrong . Like I Said You Need My ( Ok ) To Make Yourself Whole . That's Why You Keep Following Me Around . English / England If Only I Could Write A Post About You So-call His -Story And Not Get A Warning . We'll See Who Closed Minded / Brainwash . I Must Have Really Hit A Nerve For You Feel The Need To Impress Me .




No analysis. No engagement. No sign of ability to do so. Interestingly, the "advice" I'm confidently offered, eg "To Desire Security Is A Sign Of Insecurity" is the advice that should be aken by the writer. It is also interesting that the writer operates almost entirely in cliche or slogan, as above, or "belief is ignorance" below. Pretty sounding, good for shouting at a demo, but at best a massive simplification. Like "overmind".

Belief may be ignorant of facts, but you then go on as though that is an absolute proven truth. Maybe it is, but you haven't demonstrated it:

"If one has to believe, it means he or she does not know, and if one does not know, that is ignorance".


Knowledge and belief are not exclusive. They are part of the same process: I know the Normans are claimed to have invaded England in the year 1066 AD in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle. I believe that claim to be true because other documentary sources also date the invasion to that time.

In fact all knowledge is just belief: Belief that the study of the raw material and other available data has led to correct conclusions. The honest mind ALWAYS knows the possibility of error is there, somewhere. For example, in the case of the Norman Invasion it is possible that the documentary sources were in error for some reason as yet unknown. It is not likely, but the possibility exists.

It's one of the main reasons I'm so suspicious of what you write - this irrational certainty. The faulty logic (see your quotation above, which starts "If one has to believe..."), the unsubstantiated statements treated as proven fact - as in the Desire Security one above.

It's all just slogans cobbled together. Sorry.

:wah: Not that I fool myself you're likely to engage constructively with this, but I can't walk by without at least offering a lifeline.

[Daniyal]

Clodhopper;1136225 wrote: No analysis. No engagement. No sign of ability to do so. Interestingly, the "advice" I'm confidently offered, eg "To Desire Security Is A Sign Of Insecurity" is the advice that should be aken by the writer. It is also interesting that the writer operates almost entirely in cliche or slogan, as above, or "belief is ignorance" below. Pretty sounding, good for shouting at a demo, but at best a massive simplification. Like "overmind".

Belief may be ignorant of facts, but you then go on as though that is an absolute proven truth. Maybe it is, but you haven't demonstrated it:



Knowledge and belief are not exclusive. They are part of the same process: I know the Normans are claimed to have invaded England in the year 1066 AD in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle. I believe that claim to be true because other documentary sources also date the invasion to that time.

In fact all knowledge is just belief: Belief that the study of the raw material and other available data has led to correct conclusions. The honest mind ALWAYS knows the possibility of error is there, somewhere. For example, in the case of the Norman Invasion it is possible that the documentary sources were in error for some reason as yet unknown. It is not likely, but the possibility exists.

It's one of the main reasons I'm so suspicious of what you write - this irrational certainty. The faulty logic (see your quotation above, which starts "If one has to believe..."), the unsubstantiated statements treated as proven fact - as in the Desire Security one above.

It's all just slogans cobbled together. Sorry.

:wah: Not that I fool myself you're likely to engage constructively with this, but I can't walk by without at least offering a lifeline.


:wah::wah::wah: