Man freezes to death after city limits electricity

wildhorses · Post by **wildhorses** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:21 pm

Man freezes to death after city limits electricity

93-year-old man had more than $1,000 in unpaid power bills

updated 4:57 p.m. ET, Mon., Jan. 26, 2009

BAY CITY, Mich. - A 93-year-old man froze to death inside his home just days after the municipal power company restricted his use of electricity because of unpaid bills, officials said.

Marvin E. Schur died "a slow, painful death," said Kanu Virani, Oakland County's deputy chief medical examiner, who performed the autopsy.

Neighbors discovered Schur's body on Jan. 17. They said the indoor temperature was below 32 degrees at the time, The Bay City Times reported Monday.

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"Hypothermia shuts the whole system down, slowly," Virani said. "It's not easy to die from hypothermia without first realizing your fingers and toes feel like they're burning."

'Limiter' device installed

Schur owed Bay City Electric Light & Power more than $1,000 in unpaid electric bills, Bay City Manager Robert Belleman told The Associated Press on Monday.

A city utility worker had installed a "limiter" device to restrict the use of electricity at Schur's home on Jan. 13, said Belleman. The device limits power reaching a home and blows out like a fuse if consumption rises past a set level. Power is not restored until the device is reset.

The limiter was tripped sometime between the time of installation and the discovery of Schur's body, Belleman said. He didn't know if anyone had made personal contact with Schur to explain how the device works.

The body was discovered by neighbor George Pauwels Jr.

"His furnace was not running, the insides of his windows were full of ice the morning we found him," Pauwels told the Bay City News.

Power shut off if bills unpaid

Belleman said city workers keep the limiter on houses for 10 days, then shut off power entirely if the homeowner hasn't paid utility bills or arranged to do so.

He said Bay City Electric Light & Power's policies will be reviewed, but he didn't believe the city did anything wrong.

"I've said this before and some of my colleagues have said this: Neighbors need to keep an eye on neighbors," Belleman said. "When they think there's something wrong, they should contact the appropriate agency or city department."

Schur had no children and his wife had died several years ago.

Bay City is on Saginaw Bay, just north of the city of Saginaw in central Michigan.

93-year-old man freezes to death indoors - Life- msnbc.com

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Odie · Post by **Odie** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:53 pm

Scrat;1120128 wrote: Ah yes. Only in America. There was a boy died of a brain infection due to a bad wisdom tooth last year.

God bless America!!!

why is this America's fault?

wildhorses · Post by **wildhorses** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:59 pm

Scrat;1120143 wrote: I expect a little more from my country. If I live in the greatest country on earth I should not have to hear of such things.

Hell I wonder who this guy was. Did he fight the Nazis? The Japanese? Did he take a bullet for America? Maybe this guy lived a good life, owned his home took care of himself as best he could worked his whole life like a good American should. What did he get in the end?

What kind if a country do I live in?

According to a poster on another board he was a WWII veteran.

kayleneaussie · Post by **kayleneaussie** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:03 pm

Odie;1120142 wrote: why is this America's fault?

Its not just America it happens in other countries too:-5

kayleneaussie · Post by **kayleneaussie** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:04 pm

so very sad

wildhorses · Post by **wildhorses** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:07 pm

Scrat;1120143 wrote: I expect a little more from my country. If I live in the greatest country on earth I should not have to hear of such things.

Hell I wonder who this guy was. Did he fight the Nazis? The Japanese? Did he take a bullet for America? Maybe this guy lived a good life, owned his home took care of himself as best he could worked his whole life like a good American should. What did he get in the end?

What kind if a country do I live in?

The fault lies firmly at the feet of the city in which he resided. They are the ones responsible for cutting power to someone who could not afford their electricity. I dont know how you can blame this on the country.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:08 pm

kayleneaussie;1120149 wrote: Its not just America it happens in other countries too:-5

I know that, but he said only in America!:-5:-5

G#Gill · Post by **G#Gill** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:10 pm

Scrat are you American ? Listen, I am a pensioner. I am English. 11 days ago our carbon monoxide warning alarm went off in the evening. My husband turned the mains gas off at the meter (where the gas comes into the house), and he called the emergency phone number for our gas supplier. They sent a man out within about 3/4 hour - he checked our boiler and put a notice on it not to use it until it was either given the all clear after repair, or a new one installed. My husband rang up the gas company, explained all about what had happened, and did they know any details about getting a grant to replace the gas boiler ( for our central heating). No they couldn't help us !

The next morning my husband rang a company called 'Warm Front' which installs insulation and deals with central heating etc. and they get funds from the government. They could see no possible reason why we wouldn't qualify for a 100% grant to replace all that was needed to be replaced. Brilliant news !! However, that was 10 days ago. No assessor has called to see us, nothing, despite making phone calls to see how long it would be, and explaining our situation. They apologised and told us that we had been put on urgent priority because we had no central heating, no gas for our gas cooker and we were pensioners. They had sent instructions to their contractor several days ago. We still have heard nothing, not even a phone call.

It's just a good job we have a couple of electric halogen free-standing heaters, a small electric oven that is supposed to be for our caravan, and an LPG double burner and grill, and of course an electric kettle !

I meant to ask my husband to ask them which year they were thinking of sending an assessor round ! :rolleyes: (it's just as well he spoke to them)

The temp. in our kitchen is between 50 f and 55 f, depending on whether the sun is shining ! The sitting room is 72 f and that is with the heater on 2 out of 3 bars all day and evening, which makes it reasonably comfortable, so long as I wear a fleece ! Oh, and the only hot water is via our electric kettle, or from the shower unit in the bathroom !

This is in England, so don't suggest that it only happens in America !!!!!

Mind you in the UK, if there is trouble over bill-paying, I believe it is now illegal to turn off utilities if there are children or elderly people living in the property, but I could be wrong about that, perhaps somebody could verify that for me.

kayleneaussie · Post by **kayleneaussie** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:10 pm

Odie;1120156 wrote: I know that, but he said only in America!:-5:-5

I know i posted wrong:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl but it does happen in other countries too and i wouldnt be surprised if we have a few deaths here with the old people with this heat wave

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:13 pm

kayleneaussie;1120159 wrote: I know i posted wrong:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl but it does happen in other countries too and i wouldnt be surprised if we have a few deaths here with the old people with this heat wave

thing is, it has nothing to do with any country.....its the electricity department in that city....and with arrears of $1,000.00, he would be been warned and warned........trust me, used to work for the city.

but so sad to die that way.:-1

wildhorses · Post by **wildhorses** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:28 pm

Scrat;1120167 wrote: This society I live in is at fault. This country is at fault.

We have a 600 billion dollar military budget and things like this happen?

That's f**ked up any way you slice it.

Yeah, maybe he had too much pride.

I wonder what the CEO of that electric company gets paid.

We're not living in other countries. We're supposedly living in the greatest country in the world.

What kind of a country do I live in? I think I live in a very amoral and increasingly more backward country.

Heat is a basic necessity of life. I someone cant afford it then it should be supplied anyway. Obviously if his bill was 1000 bucks then he could not afford it. Maybe he just gave up....because not only could he not afford to pay for heat, but then there was the issue of back payments. Maybe he just said "to hell with it".

wildhorses · Post by **wildhorses** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:36 pm

Jester;1120171 wrote: At 94, with no wife and no children, going to sleep in the cold woudlnt be so bad.

Good call WH, I'm inclined to agree.

I have heard that when you start freezing to death that you start to feel warm. I hope he felt warm....at the end.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:54 am

Its a very sad story. But this sort of thing does happen in every country, including my own Scrat. You can't blame the entire country for one incident, dreadful as it is.

We do have free fuel and free travel for pensioners though (which is a good scheme), and in the UK pensioners have some kind of allowance for heating for older people, (though not enough) but sometimes things go wrong and people die in these dreadful incidents. Its not just an American thing at all so I think your being unfairly political here Scrat.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:09 am

Galbally;1120185 wrote: Its a very sad story. But this sort of thing does happen in every country, including my own Scrat. You can't blame the entire country for one incident, dreadful as it is.

We do have free fuel and free travel for pensioners though (which is a good scheme), and in the UK pensioners have some kind of allowance for heating for older people, (though not enough) but sometimes things go wrong and people die in these dreadful incidents. Its not just an American thing at all so I think your being unfairly political here Scrat.To be factual galbally, in Britain, once you reach 60 yrs old, you are automatically entitled to the 'Cold Weather Payment' every year which is Â£250 paid in a lump sum at the end of every November regardless of how the weather is. This year, due to particually cold weather, the government credited accounts with an extra Â£25 in early January.

I personally do not agree with this massive hand out of cash from the government every year. Most years, we have still got bumble bee's flitting around on Christmas day with autumn temperatures. This is not Siberia, it's Britain and we do not have the temperatures to warrant this money. The pensioners that do tend to suffer from the cold here in this country are the one's rattling around in huge houses on their own. The Opposition MP's will always tell you that pensioners are freezing to death in their homes but in this country, hypothermia is now relatively rare.

Also in this country, the moment you reach 60, if you do not have a private pension and you are not working... your benifit money is doubled. I don't know of any other country where they have it as good as they have here and I'm sick of people whinging about our Government but snapping their arms off the minute there's any hand-outs going.

Also, under this government (Blair actually) every council and housing association has had to meet a criteria of housing regulations. Over the past few years, it is policy to bring every house up to standard which includes new central heating, boilers and gas fires. This is totally free of charge and thousands of homes have already been brought up to standard. Under this government, it is policy that the work will continue until every house is equiped to standard although obviousley, this takes time.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:24 am

posted by scrat

Ah yes. Only in America. There was a boy died of a brain infection due to a bad wisdom tooth last year.

God bless America!!!

posted by jester

How is this only in americas fault?

It happens in other places too:

Dont forget your beloved Russia turned off gas to most of europe, remember?

I would like to point point out that this anti American comment was made by an American about an incident that happened in America. If you are going to squabble amongst yourselves about the need for social reform please refrain from comparing yourselves unfavourably with the rest of the world as it obviously depresses everybody and get them annoyed. :sneaky:

Actually russia didn't turn off the gas but europe is shitting itself in case they do. Here in the UK it wouldn't matter so much but does thanks to maggie thatcher.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:38 am

gmc;1120190 wrote: posted by scrat

posted by jester

I would like to point point out that this anti American comment was made by an American about an incident that happened in America. If you are going to squabble amongst yourselves about the need for social reform please refrain from comparing yourselves unfavourably with the rest of the world as it obviously depresses everybody and get them annoyed. :sneaky:

Actually russia didn't turn off the gas but europe is shitting itself in case they do. Here in the UK it wouldn't matter so much but does thanks to maggie thatcher.

Well said that scottish person. :-6

Your right, that demented woman Thatcher sold off our North Sea gas and now it's running out. About time we made Russia part of the EU me thinks :sneaky: BTW, for good measure, she shut our coal mines down as well.

Mr O has just reminded me that it is illegal for power companies to turn off or reduce power to elderly people. That's this government for you.... forever caring.

mikeinie · Post by **mikeinie** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:26 am

I think that this is very sad and my heart goes out to the poor guy that is no way to die.

Having said that, is the electricity company suppose to know the personal circumstances of each and every one of their customers? For all they know the house could have been abandoned, (as many are in this recession), the owner could have been down in his condo in Florida for the winter, I mean they just donâ€™t know.

How are you supposed to be able to keep track of ever person. If he didnâ€™t cry out for help, how could of anyone known.

It shouldnâ€™t happen, we all wish it didnâ€™t happen, but unfortunately it happens, and could happen anywhere.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:41 am

mikeinie;1120230 wrote: I think that this is very sad and my heart goes out to the poor guy that is no way to die.

Having said that, is the electricity company suppose to know the personal circumstances of each and every one of their customers? For all they know the house could have been abandoned, (as many are in this recession), the owner could have been down in his condo in Florida for the winter, I mean they just donâ€™t know.

How are you supposed to be able to keep track of ever person. If he didnâ€™t cry out for help, how could of anyone known.

It shouldnâ€™t happen, we all wish it didnâ€™t happen, but unfortunately it happens, and could happen anywhere.

I agree with you. Many elderly people die alone in their homes and are un-discovered for weeks. It has nothing to do with the cold, just that they live alone and no-one notices when no-one see's them for a while.

It happens in every country. Very sad.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:09 am

I had read this story, and thought how sad it was. They cut off his electricity, and take no blame in it. It is disgraceful, how can you pay outrageous electric bills, and never be able to catch up? The man was in his 90s! What did they expect him to do, go to work to pay the bill?

At 94, with no wife and no children, going to sleep in the cold woudlnt be so bad.

Yes, it is bad. He should not have died from lack of heat. It sadly happens in many countries, and one that should never happen again.

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:38 am

The great thing is though that you have the option to leave it if it's so bad.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:06 am

Peg;1120318 wrote: The great thing is though that you have the option to leave it if it's so bad.

Wise words Peg. That choice goes for Britain as well. They can leave any time they like.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:40 pm

JAB;1120969 wrote: National News - Freezing death of Mich. man in house sparks anger

A bit of an update; an excerpt from the above link:

One of the saddest things of all was that Schur appeared to have plenty of money, and, in fact, one of the neighbors who entered the home reported seeing cash clipped to a pile of bills on the kitchen table. Schur's nephew suggested the old man's mind may have been slipping.

So where was the family if they suspected that his mind was slipping?

to often the elderly are neglected by their own family.........

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:27 am

This here "GLOBAL WARMING" just frost me arse day in and day out....

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:57 pm

BTS;1121157 wrote: This here "GLOBAL WARMING" just frost me arse day in and day out....

Is that you in the pic on your posts?

nok · Post by **nok** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:51 am

This is such a sad story :-1 His death was untimely and if his family had cared about him, this never would've happened. Sooooo sad :-1 I hope this kind of stuff doesn't happen often.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:36 am

nok;1122216 wrote: This is such a sad story :-1 His death was untimely and if his family had cared about him, this never would've happened. Sooooo sad :-1 I hope this kind of stuff doesn't happen often.

I wouldn't be so judgemental-sounds like it happened in less than a week. How often does anyone visit elderly their relatives? Not easy of you are quite some distance away. Maybe he was an independent sort that didn't like people pestering him and stopped answering his phone as a matter of principle-you just don't know the full circumstances.

My mother fell and cracked her skull-we didn't find out till the next day because she didn't want us to worry and wouldn't let the hospital call us. No doubt some thought we just didn't care when nobody visited.