Britain's Foreign Secretary publicly defecated on the outgoing White House administration this morning. It might be six years too late but it's better than nothing.The foreign secretary, David Miliband, today argues that the use of the "war on terror" as a western rallying cry since the September 11 attacks has been a mistake that may have caused "more harm than good".
In an article in today's Guardian, five days before the Bush administration leaves the White House, Miliband delivers a comprehensive critique of its defining mission, saying the war on terror was misconceived and that the west cannot "kill its way" out of the threats it faces.
'War on terror' was a mistake, says Miliband | Politics | The Guardian
The War on Terror
The War on Terror
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The War on Terror
spot;1109640 wrote: Britain's Foreign Secretary publicly defecated on the outgoing White House administration this morning. It might be six years too late but it's better than nothing.The foreign secretary, David Miliband, today argues that the use of the "war on terror" as a western rallying cry since the September 11 attacks has been a mistake that may have caused "more harm than good".
In an article in today's Guardian, five days before the Bush administration leaves the White House, Miliband delivers a comprehensive critique of its defining mission, saying the war on terror was misconceived and that the west cannot "kill its way" out of the threats it faces.
'War on terror' was a mistake, says Miliband | Politics | The Guardian
Although there have been no more 9/11's in the U.S., I doubt that the "war on terror"conducted outside the boundaries of the U.S. had anything to do with it.
In an article in today's Guardian, five days before the Bush administration leaves the White House, Miliband delivers a comprehensive critique of its defining mission, saying the war on terror was misconceived and that the west cannot "kill its way" out of the threats it faces.
'War on terror' was a mistake, says Miliband | Politics | The Guardian
Although there have been no more 9/11's in the U.S., I doubt that the "war on terror"conducted outside the boundaries of the U.S. had anything to do with it.
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Oscar Namechange
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The War on Terror
spot;1109640 wrote: Britain's Foreign Secretary publicly defecated on the outgoing White House administration this morning. It might be six years too late but it's better than nothing.The foreign secretary, David Miliband, today argues that the use of the "war on terror" as a western rallying cry since the September 11 attacks has been a mistake that may have caused "more harm than good".
In an article in today's Guardian, five days before the Bush administration leaves the White House, Miliband delivers a comprehensive critique of its defining mission, saying the war on terror was misconceived and that the west cannot "kill its way" out of the threats it faces.
'War on terror' was a mistake, says Miliband | Politics | The Guardian
Frankly, i can't believe the nerve of the man. I am British, a Labour supporter and admirer of Gordon Brown.... So i should be applauding Milliband, but i'm not. It's too little too late. Half of the cronie's in the Labour Party backed Blair to invade Iraq. Now GB has announced all troops bar 400 will be out by June and we are handing control over to that nasty America who by the way started the whole thing in the first place:rolleyes:, we are supposed to accept this.
It may well be an admission that Blair got it wrong big time but it's shallow words to dismiss an illegal war and the deaths of troops and the people of Iraq.
Still what else do we expect from the master of spin??
'After the al-Qaida attacks of 11 September 2001, the Bush administration presented the threat of a global terrorist onslaught as justification for pre-emptive military action, long-term detention without trial and severe interrogation techniques widely denounced by human rights groups as torture. The incoming Obama administration is expected to avoid using the term "war on terror" and adopt a more multilateral and less military-focused approach to global threats.
British officials are signalling, in increasingly public ways, that they cannot wait for the new team to take office next Tuesday, and wave goodbye to an eight-year administration with which they felt increasingly ill at ease, particularly following the departure of Tony Blair in 2007. '
So let's just heap the entire blame on the Bush/9/11 administration and Britain comes out sqeeaky clean in the whole farce. Now Blair is out, it's safe to blame him as it Bush who will shortly be out.
BLOODY HYPOCRITE MILLIBAND
In an article in today's Guardian, five days before the Bush administration leaves the White House, Miliband delivers a comprehensive critique of its defining mission, saying the war on terror was misconceived and that the west cannot "kill its way" out of the threats it faces.
'War on terror' was a mistake, says Miliband | Politics | The Guardian
Frankly, i can't believe the nerve of the man. I am British, a Labour supporter and admirer of Gordon Brown.... So i should be applauding Milliband, but i'm not. It's too little too late. Half of the cronie's in the Labour Party backed Blair to invade Iraq. Now GB has announced all troops bar 400 will be out by June and we are handing control over to that nasty America who by the way started the whole thing in the first place:rolleyes:, we are supposed to accept this.
It may well be an admission that Blair got it wrong big time but it's shallow words to dismiss an illegal war and the deaths of troops and the people of Iraq.
Still what else do we expect from the master of spin??
'After the al-Qaida attacks of 11 September 2001, the Bush administration presented the threat of a global terrorist onslaught as justification for pre-emptive military action, long-term detention without trial and severe interrogation techniques widely denounced by human rights groups as torture. The incoming Obama administration is expected to avoid using the term "war on terror" and adopt a more multilateral and less military-focused approach to global threats.
British officials are signalling, in increasingly public ways, that they cannot wait for the new team to take office next Tuesday, and wave goodbye to an eight-year administration with which they felt increasingly ill at ease, particularly following the departure of Tony Blair in 2007. '
So let's just heap the entire blame on the Bush/9/11 administration and Britain comes out sqeeaky clean in the whole farce. Now Blair is out, it's safe to blame him as it Bush who will shortly be out.
BLOODY HYPOCRITE MILLIBAND
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The War on Terror
If you share lodgings with an insane axe murderer you tend to be on the polite uncontroversial side until he's in the Black Maria.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The War on Terror
Amazing! A politician has discovered that it's im[possible to make war on a mindset!
Did I say amazing? I'm bloody well astonished.
Did I say amazing? I'm bloody well astonished.
An ye harm none, do what ye will....
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Oscar Namechange
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The War on Terror
Chookie;1110005 wrote: Amazing! A politician has discovered that it's im[possible to make war on a mindset!
Did I say amazing? I'm bloody well astonished.
A politician has not discovered anything. They knew all along and is it not co-incidence that just as Bush ends his term, out they all come to blame America for the whole farce?
It's not a discovery, they knew it as soon as the search for mwd's failed to produce anything.
It's just a far better advantage now, as Bush leaves office, than it was at the time.
Did I say amazing? I'm bloody well astonished.
A politician has not discovered anything. They knew all along and is it not co-incidence that just as Bush ends his term, out they all come to blame America for the whole farce?
It's not a discovery, they knew it as soon as the search for mwd's failed to produce anything.
It's just a far better advantage now, as Bush leaves office, than it was at the time.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The War on Terror
Perhaps I might add an article from my email, to give a flavor of World Opinion as the war criminals lose their immunity from prosecution?
Five days to go in the worst presidency in American history. Five long days that will free Americans and the vast majority of peoples everywhere around the world from a total failure, whose actions may well have irreparably damaged the United States, resulted in the deaths of millions, and ruined a good portion of the planet. There are not enough words in the dictionary to describe what a tragedy these past eight years were, and while George W. Bush's own verdict at his final press conference last Monday was: "We had fun," few others did.
Gulfnews: Goodbye Bush, your time is up
Five days to go in the worst presidency in American history. Five long days that will free Americans and the vast majority of peoples everywhere around the world from a total failure, whose actions may well have irreparably damaged the United States, resulted in the deaths of millions, and ruined a good portion of the planet. There are not enough words in the dictionary to describe what a tragedy these past eight years were, and while George W. Bush's own verdict at his final press conference last Monday was: "We had fun," few others did.
Gulfnews: Goodbye Bush, your time is up
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The War on Terror
I think David Milliband is correct in his assessment on the War on Terror as a general policy; however, I completely agree with Oscar.
Where was he in 2003 when he had to vote on the War in Iraq or during the last British General election on this issue?
In fact, where was the entire British Labour party? Why did they staunchly support this US policy up to and including voting for entering the Iraq War, if privately they held such grave concerns? For shame.
He is only saying now what most people already think, but he waited till it was safe to do so personally for him, and its far too late to change what has been done to his own country because of decisions he is also directly responsible for. For shame.
He waited until a couple of days before George Bush left office to say what he has obviously believed in for years, in a transparent attempt to curry some favour with an angry and disillusioned British public, get in with the new President, and also quietly undermine his own Prime Minister within the party for his own unhidden political aims. Craven.
Simply put, its easy to kick George now that he is down and out, and start lecturing the yanks when they know themselves already that they have made a big mistake; but where was David 12 months or 24 months ago?
American George and British Tony actually believed what they were doing was right, while British David and British Gordon knew it was wrong but they still went along with it, that makes them worse in my opinion.
Robin Cook had the honour to resign as foreign secretary in 2003 over exactly this issue, not many else did unfortunately. At least Gordon has the taste not to try and ease his conscience and get some cheap popularity by turning on George Bush now that he is no longer in Charge, David doesn't share such qualms.
It makes his connivance and previous support for these policies in the past, and the consequences that the support of them has for Britain, all the more annoying. He may be a smart fellow, and a decent person, but he's also a political coward and a bit of a hypocrite to say the least.
Whatever your opinion of him, Barak Obama has consistently condemned the Iraq War since 2003, even though the this was a very unpopular thing to say in the States, and he was prepared to stand up and say what he actually thought; despite the political consequences to himself. David Milliband supported the War when it was convenient to himself, then turns on the people he used to "wholeheartedly support" when its also convenient to himself.
Thats the difference between someone who is an actual leader (which is what the incoming American President is), and a craven follower, (which is what the suddenly outspoken British Foreign Secretary is) in my opinion.
Where was he in 2003 when he had to vote on the War in Iraq or during the last British General election on this issue?
In fact, where was the entire British Labour party? Why did they staunchly support this US policy up to and including voting for entering the Iraq War, if privately they held such grave concerns? For shame.
He is only saying now what most people already think, but he waited till it was safe to do so personally for him, and its far too late to change what has been done to his own country because of decisions he is also directly responsible for. For shame.
He waited until a couple of days before George Bush left office to say what he has obviously believed in for years, in a transparent attempt to curry some favour with an angry and disillusioned British public, get in with the new President, and also quietly undermine his own Prime Minister within the party for his own unhidden political aims. Craven.
Simply put, its easy to kick George now that he is down and out, and start lecturing the yanks when they know themselves already that they have made a big mistake; but where was David 12 months or 24 months ago?
American George and British Tony actually believed what they were doing was right, while British David and British Gordon knew it was wrong but they still went along with it, that makes them worse in my opinion.
Robin Cook had the honour to resign as foreign secretary in 2003 over exactly this issue, not many else did unfortunately. At least Gordon has the taste not to try and ease his conscience and get some cheap popularity by turning on George Bush now that he is no longer in Charge, David doesn't share such qualms.
It makes his connivance and previous support for these policies in the past, and the consequences that the support of them has for Britain, all the more annoying. He may be a smart fellow, and a decent person, but he's also a political coward and a bit of a hypocrite to say the least.
Whatever your opinion of him, Barak Obama has consistently condemned the Iraq War since 2003, even though the this was a very unpopular thing to say in the States, and he was prepared to stand up and say what he actually thought; despite the political consequences to himself. David Milliband supported the War when it was convenient to himself, then turns on the people he used to "wholeheartedly support" when its also convenient to himself.
Thats the difference between someone who is an actual leader (which is what the incoming American President is), and a craven follower, (which is what the suddenly outspoken British Foreign Secretary is) in my opinion.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
The War on Terror
The simple answer is that David Milliband was first elected to parliament in 2001. It's a bit optimistic to expect him to be rebelling after only two years experience there.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The War on Terror
spot;1111456 wrote: The simple answer is that David Milliband was first elected to parliament in 2001. It's a bit optimistic to expect him to be rebelling after only two years experience there.
What year was Barak Obama first elected as a senator for Illinois?
What year was Barak Obama first elected as a senator for Illinois?
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
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Oscar Namechange
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The War on Terror
spot;1111456 wrote: The simple answer is that David Milliband was first elected to parliament in 2001. It's a bit optimistic to expect him to be rebelling after only two years experience there.
Why Not?
The same statement could be said for any politician in the House of Commons.
Why Not?
The same statement could be said for any politician in the House of Commons.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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The War on Terror
JAB;1111719 wrote: Or Obama. He's only been in the US Senate since 2005.
Exactly.
Milliband has had enough time to express his dissapproval of the invasion of Iraq. He's kept quiet until the most opportune moment.....5 days and counting down for Bush to leave office.
Exactly.
Milliband has had enough time to express his dissapproval of the invasion of Iraq. He's kept quiet until the most opportune moment.....5 days and counting down for Bush to leave office.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The War on Terror
Galbally;1111567 wrote: What year was Barak Obama first elected as a senator for Illinois?
1996. Twelve years ago. I wasn't pointing out how long David Milliband has been in parliament so much as to suggest that rebelling against party whips after only two years experience there would be unlikely.
1996. Twelve years ago. I wasn't pointing out how long David Milliband has been in parliament so much as to suggest that rebelling against party whips after only two years experience there would be unlikely.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The War on Terror
JAB;1111701 wrote: I don't think so. Politics are cyclical - it is never as bad nor as good as people think. Cyclical? Surely that means it gets as bad and as good as people think. I'm sure things will get better in the US but it'll never go back to what it was. Capitalism died last year.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Oscar Namechange
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The War on Terror
spot;1112079 wrote: Cyclical? Surely that means it gets as bad and as good as people think. I'm sure things will get better in the US but it'll never go back to what it was. Capitalism died last year.
I was reading an article last night in the Telegraph about how Obama is going to forge 'Special relationships' with muslim countries over Britain. It claimed that the Foriegn office were concerned about Obama more or less shunning Britain to concentrate on other countries. Going by some of Jester's comments, that's actually now OK by me. If this article has any truth in it and Obama can't do the job after all his promises, then don't come running to us the next time America screws up or he's plunged them into more un-rest.
I was reading an article last night in the Telegraph about how Obama is going to forge 'Special relationships' with muslim countries over Britain. It claimed that the Foriegn office were concerned about Obama more or less shunning Britain to concentrate on other countries. Going by some of Jester's comments, that's actually now OK by me. If this article has any truth in it and Obama can't do the job after all his promises, then don't come running to us the next time America screws up or he's plunged them into more un-rest.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The War on Terror
spot;1112075 wrote: 1996. Twelve years ago. I wasn't pointing out how long David Milliband has been in parliament so much as to suggest that rebelling against party whips after only two years experience there would be unlikely.
Almost, but not quite. He was a senator in our state house(Illinois) - local politics until '04. He represented his local district only. Then he went to washington representing the entire state. He actually came out against the war long before he ever got to washington..
Almost, but not quite. He was a senator in our state house(Illinois) - local politics until '04. He represented his local district only. Then he went to washington representing the entire state. He actually came out against the war long before he ever got to washington..
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6