Israel bombs Gaza.

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Oscar Namechange
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Israel bombs Gaza.

Post by Oscar Namechange »

mikeinie;1097212 wrote: You know what? This has been going on for so many years that I am getting sick of it. I say let the feckers fight it out, everyone back off and let the last man standing be the winner. No intervention, no sanctions, no alliances, let their hatred consume themselves until they are all dust.

Then we can turn all into one big theme park.


Exactly. Let Israel fight Hamas fairly without the military killing machines Bush has supplied and let them get on with it. I totally agree, no aid, no help and no-one giving a ****.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Israel bombs Gaza.

Post by Oscar Namechange »

Scrat;1097459 wrote: They can't win the battle but they can win the war. Just like the conflict on the eastern front, what matters is who is occupying what in the end.

This stupidity only shows Israels ineptitude and impotence.


The world is sick of Israel. Their violence, policy and statagy are no different to the Nazi regime that they keep reminding us of and will never let the world forget.

Only America seems to be backing Israel now and look what happened to sadam at the hands of America in the end.

I hope there is a cease-fire at least for New Years day at least.

I shall be thinking of all the murdered innocent Hamas victems.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Bruv
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Israel bombs Gaza.

Post by Bruv »

Jester;1097889 wrote: Hamas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hamas is a terror org. They have declared Jihad on Israel- Jihad is the reason the western world, including your country is figthing Islamic fascists.

T


Simple question Jester.......Why ?

Why Jihad ?

This mother must feel pretty damned pissed about something.....what would get you this pissed off ?

And would you contemplate Jihad under such conditions ?



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Israel bombs Gaza.

Post by spot »

What benefit do you think Israel is getting from this? Hamas, like all such organizations, gains more recruits for each member killed than it loses.

Let's say Israel succeeds in emulating its US sponsor and becomes responsible for the deaths of 3% of the inhabitants of the Gaza Strip, just as the US became responsible for the deaths of 3% of the population of Iraq. A hundred thousand dead Palestinians or so, two hundred times their current score.. It makes no difference to the eventual outcome, there's still some permanent settlement to be found afterwards. They end up with a more politicised Palestinian population and with world opinion horrified at what the Israelis committed. What's the solution? Kill ten times as many? Kill an entire million Palestinians? It's still a minority.

What Israel has done is it's handed control of its military response to Hamas. It's said "If we're hit we'll respond" - not "We'll decide what to do based on our own best interests". It means that Hamas can choose exactly what Israel's military does, they can switch the Israeli army on and off like a faucet. That's power. For some reason the Israelis want that power in the hands of Hamas instead of their own Cabinet. Hamas wants the temperature up, it wants Palestinian civilian deaths to outrage world opinion and Israel's sufficiently dim-witted to give them what they want.
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Israel bombs Gaza.

Post by spot »

You just haven't got it, have you. There is no price. The Palestinians are paying nothing because they have nothing. Nobody can take anything from a Palestinian, they're the equivalent of Job sat on his ash-heap being persecuted. It makes no difference how much you knock down their buildings, they have no buildings. They exist as a mute reminder to the world of what the Israelis have done, and the Israelis are sufficiently stupid to not only let it go on but to provide news footage year after year of the killings.

You say Hamas instigates the killings and I agreed. You say that the Palestinians voted for Hamas and of course they did. What you can't grasp is that there's no downside to the Palestinians, the only win they can ever possibly achieve is an escape from their ash-heap and if it takes a hundred thousand deaths on their part then they're queueing up to die in exchange.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Israel bombs Gaza.

Post by spot »

Jester;1099981 wrote: Then they will slowly be annihilated.Checkmate. The Final Solution. Sieg Heil, and singularly appropriate given whose army is doing the killing.

At least you know which side you're on, all you need are the death's head flashes.

Let's call a spade a spade. Gaza is a ghetto.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Israel bombs Gaza.

Post by mikeinie »

Jester;1099981 wrote: Then they will slowly be annihalated.



I know one thing for certain, had Hamas not launched the rockets, we woudlnt be seeing this happening now.

.


That is true, when Israel is left alone they leave everyone else alone. Hamas hides in crowd of the innocent and fights its war hiding behind children. Then when Israel fights back they look like the bad guys.

However, I think that they are both a complete pack of morons and will be nothing but trouble for the world as long as they continue hating each other. It is getting to the point where I could not care less what they do to each other as long as they don’t drag everyone else into it.
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Israel bombs Gaza.

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Jester;1099981 wrote: Then they will slowly be annihalated.

The people who call themsleves palastinians are most Jordanians, they should be going back home there.

Until then they are being used as pawns by the islamic factions to make Israel look bad. But I dont see folks telling things like it truly is. Israel has a right to defend itself and cirumstances being what they are thats whats happening. In light of the immediate, Israel has no choice but to do what they are doing. I'm rather glad they dont do it in secret. Thier actions are in te open and plain for everyone to see.

And it doesn't matter to Israel what the outside world thinks of them, by now its rather obvious that they do what they must to survive and to protect their people. Seems pretty plain to me.

It's a who cares process... those who do care about the palastinians squak at Israel, those who think the Palastinians bring it on themselves support Israel.

I know one thing for certain, had Hamas not launched the rockets, we woudlnt be seeing this happening now.

As for the palastinians, they ought to know by now that its a dog eat dog world, and its not advisable to get in the way of the dogs.


Jester, like you, I am not anti-Israeli, and I see Hamas for what they are. But to state that the Palestinians will be slowly "annihalated" is such an unaceptable thing to say and you know it it. It's what the SS called "The Final Solution" and as a human being I cannot accept that to even think such things is anything but evil. The ordinary palestinian people (who are women, men, and children, just like you and me and our wives, girlfriends and children) have a right to their own country, and the right to live decent human lives.

I agree that Hamas are a bunch of radicalized fanatics who have a policy of refusing to allow peace to happen because they want to destroy Israel, and are prepared to use the suffering of their own population as a propaganda tool, and of course Israel has to defend itself against this organization. I do have to say that the causes of this conflict are routed in what has happened in the past, and the loss of statehood of the Palestinian people, at some point, that historical wrong is going to have to dealt with or there will never be peace. Its hard to see at the moment where that peace is going to come from. But to wipe out the palestinian people is genocide pure and simple, and if Israel was to pursue such a policy then they would be simply as bad as the Nazi's that they fled Europe to escape.
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Chookie
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Israel bombs Gaza.

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Scrat;1100709 wrote: Israels track record when it comes to peace negotiations and obligations is as spotty as Hamas.


In my opinion they are both equally guilty. Unfortunately, the Israelis have a much bigger resource base....

Scrat;1100709 wrote: We know how it works, Israel says "we want peace" then lays claim to a few thousand acres of land, evicts the people there and moves nut job settlers onto the land.


Lets not forget that any criticism of Israeli foreign policy is met by the playing of the "Holocaust card". Now, I am not a holocaust denier, but previous history cannot be used to excuse present atrocities. Allowing this tactic must stop.

Scrat;1100709 wrote: Israel needs to give back the land they have stolen over the last 60 years, all of it. They also need to get rid of their own terrorists. I'd really like to hear your equitable plan Jester.


The Israeli state was in large part founded by terrorist organisations (the Stern Gang and Irgun for example). Thus, terrorism has come to be a fundamental part of Israeli policy.



Scrat;1100709 wrote: This isn't going to end until both the government of Israel, the Israeli terrorists and Hamas and Arab terrorists are all brought to their knees. Even then it might not stop.


For this to happen there is a need for moderate governments in both Israel and Palestine. There never has been a moderate Israeli government and it is very unlikely that there will be a moderate Palestinian one in the near future. I'm pretty sure that neither side could agree on the definition of "moderate".

Israel, by its present actions (which won't work by the way) is building a huge reservoir of hatred in the region.
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Israel bombs Gaza.

Post by spot »

Jester;1100238 wrote: I think Gaza is a Ghetto becasue of choices made on the part of the palastinians.

And sides: please. I have solutions for both sides that end this war, and its equitable too, but. Nobody's listening to me.


I saw it, "they will slowly be annihalated". There are people serving life sentences in Rwanda for following the policy you're advocating, it's called genocide. Yet another war crime you refuse to recognise. The Hutu dehumanized their Tutsi victims by calling them cockroaches, you do no less by labelling people terrorists. Once they're labelled they're just corpses to you waiting to be swept into landfill sites.
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Israel bombs Gaza.

Post by Galbally »

I told you that the IDF was going to invade Gaza at some point in this conflict. This is going to get very ugly now.
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Israel bombs Gaza.

Post by spot »

How many tanks do the Palestinians possess?

How many helicopter gunships do the Palestinians possess?

The Palestinians don't have an army. Hamas isn't an army, at best it's an armed civil defence organization.

The jackboots have stormed the ghetto, this is history replayed by those who learned nothing from history.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Israel bombs Gaza.

Post by Oscar Namechange »

6 PM British time:

Israeli tanks roll into gaza:

Merkava tanks rolled through the perimeter fence around Gaza backed by combat helicopters and artillery fire from self-propelled Howitzers.

First of the Palisinians to die was a .............. child.

Israel rolls its tanks into Gaza to storm Hamas rocket bases | Mail Online
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Israel bombs Gaza.

Post by Oscar Namechange »

Jester;1100835 wrote: No thats not for certain- the article says that 'wittnesses said a child was one of the first to die', thats not a confirmation of anything but propaganda, and your characterization of the article makes it sound like a fact.

Lets at least roport some evidence instead of gerneralized guesses that are really nothing more than propaganda that seeks to destroy either side.


Agreed there is some speculation in the article but the reporting is acute with the pictures. I can see casualtie's on both sides here.
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Israel bombs Gaza.

Post by spot »

Jester;1100807 wrote: When a group purposely targets civilians in hopes that they can change a forign policy then they are terrorists and I will label them as such and the Lone Ranger in me wants to mount Silver nudge Tonto and go kill as many of the bad guys as I possibly can- I dont label people by thier persons, or thier color or thier national origin, I label them by thier actions.


And so do I label them by their actions and not by the words they use to describe their motives. It's why I refuse to allow you to slide over real civilian deaths with "collateral damage" as though that absolves your particular variety of civilian-killing bombers. They do, regardless of your sophistry, purposely target civilians in hopes that they can change a foreign policy.

Two days before the ground war started in Iraq they did exactly that with a guided bomb destroying an entire restaurant full of people on the basis of a report that they could thereby assassinate Saddam Hussein. You manipulate language if you refuse to equate that with a deliberate, knowing attack on a group of civilians. To call their deaths "collateral damage" on the grounds that they were, of all things, inadvertent and you'd have not killed them if you'd known how to avoid it, just sums up the moral disintegration of those involved.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Israel bombs Gaza.

Post by Omni_Skittles »

i hope Israel retakes the Gaza strip....and while they're at it nuke the rest of Palestine!
Smoke signals ftw!
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Israel bombs Gaza.

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Jester;1101065 wrote: I wont venture a comment on that particular operation any furhter than to say that it was not a resturant, and it was a ligitimate and viable target of operations for the Baath party and Saddams officials, it was a target that would have been destroyed in the opening days of the war regardless of its occupation by whoever. It was a valid military target and it was not a real resturant. Those using it were indeed part of the government a the time. I apologize, I conflated two attempts at assassination. The one I had in mind, which was indeed a restaurant in a residential district, was on April 7th and it's discussed at VOA News Report

The attempt which pre-started the war by half a day was, as you say, on a military complex.

This one wasn't.



The Straits Times (Singapore) April 9, 2003

Monday's blast scooped out an 18 m deep crater in the al-Mansur area, where Mr Saddam was shown on television on Friday being mobbed by supporters in the street. Three weeks into the war, that bomb crater gives the lie to the coalition leaders' continued insistence that the Iraqi leader is 'irrelevant'. Why else take the political risk of targeting a residential area when they have repeatedly told the world that they do not target civilians?

Rescuers said up to 14 people may have been killed in the blast, which reduced four houses to dust and blew out windows and doors of houses as far as 300 m away. The remains of a small boy, a young woman and an elderly man were pulled from the rubble.

Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Israel bombs Gaza.

Post by Oscar Namechange »

Omni_Skittles;1101044 wrote: i hope Israel retakes the Gaza strip....and while they're at it nuke the rest of Palestine!


Isn't that exactly what the Nazi's wanted for the Jews?

Do you think if they had the capablity of nucleur attack, they would not have used it on Israel?? I'm beginning to wonder if they should have,
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Israel bombs Gaza.

Post by Omni_Skittles »

oscar;1101186 wrote: Isn't that exactly what the Nazi's wanted for the Jews?

Do you think if they had the capablity of nucleur attack, they would not have used it on Israel?? I'm beginning to wonder if they should have,eh i wouldn't know that... but i'm thinking they would of... i mean they did everything but that... But God has protection over his people! :-6 ( just thought i'd throw that in)
Smoke signals ftw!
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Israel bombs Gaza.

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Omni_Skittles;1101044 wrote: i hope Israel retakes the Gaza strip....and while they're at it nuke the rest of Palestine!


Omni_Skittles;1101214 wrote: eh i wouldn't know that... but i'm thinking they would of... i mean they did everything but that... But God has protection over his people! ( just thought i'd throw that in)


Oooh yeah, Christianity in action.

Scrat;1101231 wrote: ........I don't believe it never happened, I do believe the Jewish community have selfishly used their persecution to cultivate a culture of victimhood as a tool to gain power and influence.


They also use as an excuse for terrorism.

Scrat;1101231 wrote: Not just Jews. Just what the Nazis wanted from the Jews we may never know if the light of fact and truth. We do however know what the Zionists wanted and I think it is much akin and a continuation of the above.


True, but playing the holocaust card gets you a free pass.
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Israel bombs Gaza.

Post by Omni_Skittles »

Chookie;1101519 wrote: Oooh yeah, Christianity in action.



They also use as an excuse for terrorism.





True, but playing the holocaust card gets you a free pass.
actually in that sense i was talking about the Jewish God... seeing how jewish don't believe in Christ... :-6
Smoke signals ftw!
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