Jester;1077526 wrote: When I pray specifically and its answered specifically.
When I pray about a subject and I have a peace in my spirit about the deicision I made.
I have often, and by often I mean on a regular basis in my family growing up I have prayed for x amount of monetary need and then have that exactly amount handed to us thorugh a distant source, those times confirm both our direction and the amount of money it would take to complete Gods will in the matter.
For instance down in mexico my father had a desire to rebuild part of the missionary building complex and raise up a school in it and build a orphanage. He began ot pray and in less than a weeks time material to build began to be delivered to the steps of the old mission complex. They needed tons of cement and it would be delivered. God delights in fulfilling the desires of a pure heart. He then asked God for men to build and teams of men from churches around the US began to call him and arrange times to come down and help build. Again God would do this for anyone who has a pure heart and has a purpose for the Lord.
Things like what I just told you were a regular happening at my home. Incidently on that same project my son went down to mexico to help his grampa, along with him went a shipping container full of 5 gallon buckets of paint donated by a company that I had a contract with at the time. They 'accidentlly' over ordered the exact amount of very premium paint my dad had needed.
Lon those things are beyond coincident, after a while of that and God begins to direct by the way he answers prayer.
God is still in the business of answering prayer and performing miracles, people just refuse to believe it.
great post Jester! i believe very stongly in the power of prayer, i credit my being a mom now to it!
having a child was pretty much a hopeless cause with us, there was pretty much no chance in that ever happening, but still i decided to pray about the matter so i did every day for 10 years! i think that God finally rewarded my persistence by giving me my little angel!
but there have been many times in my life when i have prayed for something like you said, i would get that exact thing! it got to the point where i had to make sure what i prayed for was something i really wanted because so many of my prayers were being answered!
i have had people to tell me that they prayed for something and didn't get an answer so they were then through with God!
but like my daddy used to always say, God answers all prayers just sometimes the answer is no!
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
Jester;1077526 wrote: When I pray specifically and its answered specifically.
When I pray about a subject and I have a peace in my spirit about the deicision I made.
I have often, and by often I mean on a regular basis in my family growing up I have prayed for x amount of monetary need and then have that exactly amount handed to us thorugh a distant source, those times confirm both our direction and the amount of money it would take to complete Gods will in the matter.
For instance down in mexico my father had a desire to rebuild part of the missionary building complex and raise up a school in it and build a orphanage. He began ot pray and in less than a weeks time material to build began to be delivered to the steps of the old mission complex. They needed tons of cement and it would be delivered. God delights in fulfilling the desires of a pure heart. He then asked God for men to build and teams of men from churches around the US began to call him and arrange times to come down and help build. Again God would do this for anyone who has a pure heart and has a purpose for the Lord.
Things like what I just told you were a regular happening at my home. Incidently on that same project my son went down to mexico to help his grampa, along with him went a shipping container full of 5 gallon buckets of paint donated by a company that I had a contract with at the time. They 'accidentlly' over ordered the exact amount of very premium paint my dad had needed.
Lon those things are beyond coincident, after a while of that and God begins to direct by the way he answers prayer.
God is still in the business of answering prayer and performing miracles, people just refuse to believe it.
Interesting Jester---------I guess we could then say that those that have prayed that a life be spared, or for specific sums of money, or for a specific thing to happen, and their prayers were not answered, did not have a Pure Heart and did not have a Purpose for the Lord. God is truly picky.
When I pray about a subject and I have a peace in my spirit about the deicision I made.
I have often, and by often I mean on a regular basis in my family growing up I have prayed for x amount of monetary need and then have that exactly amount handed to us thorugh a distant source, those times confirm both our direction and the amount of money it would take to complete Gods will in the matter.
For instance down in mexico my father had a desire to rebuild part of the missionary building complex and raise up a school in it and build a orphanage. He began ot pray and in less than a weeks time material to build began to be delivered to the steps of the old mission complex. They needed tons of cement and it would be delivered. God delights in fulfilling the desires of a pure heart. He then asked God for men to build and teams of men from churches around the US began to call him and arrange times to come down and help build. Again God would do this for anyone who has a pure heart and has a purpose for the Lord.
Things like what I just told you were a regular happening at my home. Incidently on that same project my son went down to mexico to help his grampa, along with him went a shipping container full of 5 gallon buckets of paint donated by a company that I had a contract with at the time. They 'accidentlly' over ordered the exact amount of very premium paint my dad had needed.
Lon those things are beyond coincident, after a while of that and God begins to direct by the way he answers prayer.
God is still in the business of answering prayer and performing miracles, people just refuse to believe it.
Interesting Jester---------I guess we could then say that those that have prayed that a life be spared, or for specific sums of money, or for a specific thing to happen, and their prayers were not answered, did not have a Pure Heart and did not have a Purpose for the Lord. God is truly picky.
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
If I may add in my thoughts .....
I'm not so sure that I believe in God anymore (in so much as Heaven and Hell and that stuff).
I do believe that there is a higher power out there though
I'm not so sure that I believe in God anymore (in so much as Heaven and Hell and that stuff).
I do believe that there is a higher power out there though
Very nearly perfect ... 
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
Lon;1077630 wrote: Interesting Jester---------I guess we could then say that those that have prayed that a life be spared, or for specific sums of money, or for a specific thing to happen, and their prayers were not answered, did not have a Pure Heart and did not have a Purpose for the Lord. God is truly picky.
Lon, read my post 47. These are the factors that effect a prayer, that will determine whether it even reaches its destination let alone be answered.
Also, take note. Satanists and their like also use prayer although they do not call it a prayer. They wouldn't want to be associated with godliness. Nonetheless, their incantations are just another form of visualisation.
Emotions are the carrier for sending a prayer.
Lon, read my post 47. These are the factors that effect a prayer, that will determine whether it even reaches its destination let alone be answered.
Also, take note. Satanists and their like also use prayer although they do not call it a prayer. They wouldn't want to be associated with godliness. Nonetheless, their incantations are just another form of visualisation.
Emotions are the carrier for sending a prayer.
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
Jester;1077865 wrote: Yes I have had lots of prayer where God says NO, sometimes I hear him say NO YOU IDIOT! :yh_rotfl
I have been deployed in combat a number of times and I can distinctly recall knowing the place I was walking into was a hornets nest and I'd stop my guys, be more cautions and be right. My buds would aks me how I knew, Id tell them the truth and say well the Lord speaks to me. (no I never heard Gods voice) but in my heart the feeling of gave danger comes up. 90% of the time my buds would say 'no really how did you know?' Really God speaks to me and tells me NO dont go there!
But it really isn't amazing, God would do the same for anyone and everyone who will believe, listen, and follow.
Keep right on prayer Hope!
That, to me, sounds more like your instincts, Jester. Not everyone seems able to tune into their instincts.
I have been deployed in combat a number of times and I can distinctly recall knowing the place I was walking into was a hornets nest and I'd stop my guys, be more cautions and be right. My buds would aks me how I knew, Id tell them the truth and say well the Lord speaks to me. (no I never heard Gods voice) but in my heart the feeling of gave danger comes up. 90% of the time my buds would say 'no really how did you know?' Really God speaks to me and tells me NO dont go there!
But it really isn't amazing, God would do the same for anyone and everyone who will believe, listen, and follow.
Keep right on prayer Hope!
That, to me, sounds more like your instincts, Jester. Not everyone seems able to tune into their instincts.
-
scholle-kid
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If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
If adult can obtain a 'pure' enough heart to pray for something "specifically" and have that prayer answered to the penny , Then don't it stand to reason that a small child who is innocent probally has not 'lost' the pure' heart he/she was born with .
If this be true then what your saying is there is a conection so to speak between a pure haert and gods ears?.
So when some of the horrible things that some people do to children and when that child is in pain and scared and screams for help "specifically" why woulkdn't that prayer be answed "specifically".
That is one of the top reasons I I have about this whole subject of god and prayers and what that book says about the whole thing. I can see where 'bad' things happen to adults after that age of awearness but some of the evil thingd that happen to innocent children . I can't see that. IMO thats wrong to do it and wrong to allow it doine.
And when he will answer your fathers prayer to send building supplies and people and paint . Then why not send some of them men to help a small child when it cries out for help??
I am not asking you to speak for him . I'm just saying in my puny little human way I think that a child in danger is at least as important as a school and orphanage down South. :-5:-5
And that age old handy answer of " We don't know why some things are allowed to happen. but in his wisdom,,,," I can't see it.
If this be true then what your saying is there is a conection so to speak between a pure haert and gods ears?.
So when some of the horrible things that some people do to children and when that child is in pain and scared and screams for help "specifically" why woulkdn't that prayer be answed "specifically".
That is one of the top reasons I I have about this whole subject of god and prayers and what that book says about the whole thing. I can see where 'bad' things happen to adults after that age of awearness but some of the evil thingd that happen to innocent children . I can't see that. IMO thats wrong to do it and wrong to allow it doine.
And when he will answer your fathers prayer to send building supplies and people and paint . Then why not send some of them men to help a small child when it cries out for help??
I am not asking you to speak for him . I'm just saying in my puny little human way I think that a child in danger is at least as important as a school and orphanage down South. :-5:-5
And that age old handy answer of " We don't know why some things are allowed to happen. but in his wisdom,,,," I can't see it.
There are no savage and civilised peoples; there are only different cultures.
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
scholle-kid;1077911 wrote: If adult can obtain a 'pure' enough heart to pray for something "specifically" and have that prayer answered to the penny , Then don't it stand to reason that a small child who is innocent probally has not 'lost' the pure' heart he/she was born with .
If this be true then what your saying is there is a conection so to speak between a pure haert and gods ears?.
So when some of the horrible things that some people do to children and when that child is in pain and scared and screams for help "specifically" why woulkdn't that prayer be answed "specifically".
That is one of the top reasons I I have about this whole subject of god and prayers and what that book says about the whole thing. I can see where 'bad' things happen to adults after that age of awearness but some of the evil thingd that happen to innocent children . I can't see that. IMO thats wrong to do it and wrong to allow it doine.
And when he will answer your fathers prayer to send building supplies and people and paint . Then why not send some of them men to help a small child when it cries out for help??
I am not asking you to speak for him . I'm just saying in my puny little human way I think that a child in danger is at least as important as a school and orphanage down South. :-5:-5
And that age old handy answer of " We don't know why some things are allowed to happen. but in his wisdom,,,," I can't see it.
I was wronged as a child. Such was the extent of the 'abuse' that I have blocked out the memory. This 'blockage' also effects my normal memory and even to this day, I find it difficult to remember even the most important things. I have to use reminders because my memory is so trashed. Yet, all this has given me an oblique opportunity to study and examine 'life'.
What I have observed in people today is an inherent need to believe that there is 'something' or 'someone' who is in control and will one day deliver us all from the evils of the world. We are no different then from the people of Christ's time who looked towards The Christ to deliver them.
All of us that are alive now have been born in a world full of religious creed. Indeed, most of us have to forego boring religious instruction at school as a part of our curriculum.
Whenever the word God comes into the conversation, I observe how reverent people become. "Oh, this is what I believe..."
The trouble is that we have not been allowed to think for ourselves. Think about it. Throughout life, the common person has been a slave - if not to some king or whatever, then a slave to a self-professed authority. When it has suited authority, God was the main man, when it didn't suit authority, God is simply not mentioned.
Religion - yet another way of controlling the masses. How wonderfully perfect.
It says in The Bible, God is within us all. So, now, consider what you are. You are nothing but a hazy collection of particles. Dust to dust. Ashes to ashes.
Yet, we experience life, for all the fact that we are nothing but a collection of buzzy things that happen to make up a body. And we are more than that.
I often look at my daughter and think here is another collection of buzzy things and she loves that experience. All she wants to do is enjoy each moment. I watch her sometimes, just taking it all in - quietly, unobtrusively. And I've watched her with her siblings and it's all laughter and chasing each other and having fun.
We adults have lost that. Yet, we could regain it if we simply stopped giving authority to someone else and took control of our own lives.
"Consider the children for they are of the kingdom of God."
Religion is nothing more than a political tool to scare people into doing as they are told and to deny there own senses of wrongness.
If this be true then what your saying is there is a conection so to speak between a pure haert and gods ears?.
So when some of the horrible things that some people do to children and when that child is in pain and scared and screams for help "specifically" why woulkdn't that prayer be answed "specifically".
That is one of the top reasons I I have about this whole subject of god and prayers and what that book says about the whole thing. I can see where 'bad' things happen to adults after that age of awearness but some of the evil thingd that happen to innocent children . I can't see that. IMO thats wrong to do it and wrong to allow it doine.
And when he will answer your fathers prayer to send building supplies and people and paint . Then why not send some of them men to help a small child when it cries out for help??
I am not asking you to speak for him . I'm just saying in my puny little human way I think that a child in danger is at least as important as a school and orphanage down South. :-5:-5
And that age old handy answer of " We don't know why some things are allowed to happen. but in his wisdom,,,," I can't see it.
I was wronged as a child. Such was the extent of the 'abuse' that I have blocked out the memory. This 'blockage' also effects my normal memory and even to this day, I find it difficult to remember even the most important things. I have to use reminders because my memory is so trashed. Yet, all this has given me an oblique opportunity to study and examine 'life'.
What I have observed in people today is an inherent need to believe that there is 'something' or 'someone' who is in control and will one day deliver us all from the evils of the world. We are no different then from the people of Christ's time who looked towards The Christ to deliver them.
All of us that are alive now have been born in a world full of religious creed. Indeed, most of us have to forego boring religious instruction at school as a part of our curriculum.
Whenever the word God comes into the conversation, I observe how reverent people become. "Oh, this is what I believe..."
The trouble is that we have not been allowed to think for ourselves. Think about it. Throughout life, the common person has been a slave - if not to some king or whatever, then a slave to a self-professed authority. When it has suited authority, God was the main man, when it didn't suit authority, God is simply not mentioned.
Religion - yet another way of controlling the masses. How wonderfully perfect.
It says in The Bible, God is within us all. So, now, consider what you are. You are nothing but a hazy collection of particles. Dust to dust. Ashes to ashes.
Yet, we experience life, for all the fact that we are nothing but a collection of buzzy things that happen to make up a body. And we are more than that.
I often look at my daughter and think here is another collection of buzzy things and she loves that experience. All she wants to do is enjoy each moment. I watch her sometimes, just taking it all in - quietly, unobtrusively. And I've watched her with her siblings and it's all laughter and chasing each other and having fun.
We adults have lost that. Yet, we could regain it if we simply stopped giving authority to someone else and took control of our own lives.
"Consider the children for they are of the kingdom of God."
Religion is nothing more than a political tool to scare people into doing as they are told and to deny there own senses of wrongness.
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
(((((((((((((((((((((( Scholle-kid )))))))))))))))))))) . I hear you!!!
Open Mind - Religion is nothing more than a political tool to scare people into doing as they are told - Up to a point I agree. But I believe in God as I've said already in here. I believe that humans are offered a glimpse of God. However, being human, we've hijacked those glimpses and remade god in our own small images, to suit our agendas, gain power, hold power, manipulate others. We've legislated God into little human rules. Is pressing a button on the Sabbath okay? Is eating meat on a Friday okay? Is having an online 'relationship' adultery? Is a same sex relationship hateful to God? Is God on our military side? Will I go directly to heaven if I wrap a bomb on and blow myself up in a public market? We've interpreted, twisted, pontificated to suit our own ends. Every religion can quote its own sacred texts in support of its views. The sect missionaries regularly at my door are word perfect. Slavery, apartheid, wars, keeping women down, burning of witches, cutting off of hands - can all be supported by religious texts. God has allegedly told someone that this was his will. Some human presumed to know the mind of God. When I write that, it makes me want to bow my head in silence. The hubris of a human who says he or she knows the mind of God. This god is way way too small. But then my thoughts on this are just my thoughts.
Over the years I've read lots about prayer, which, for me, means a human trying to open him or herself up to receiving God. Maybe it does sometimes include a shopping list - please God let me find a parking space - but surely not just this kind of thing. Most religions have their mystics and contemplative prayer was a silent emptying oneself in awe before the Divine. Not in any active desire to win some concession or even get an answer to a personal problem - but to be, for a few moments, aware that we live always in the presence of God, creature with Creator. I guess purity of heart is this very simple and yet so very difficut awareness.
Open Mind - Religion is nothing more than a political tool to scare people into doing as they are told - Up to a point I agree. But I believe in God as I've said already in here. I believe that humans are offered a glimpse of God. However, being human, we've hijacked those glimpses and remade god in our own small images, to suit our agendas, gain power, hold power, manipulate others. We've legislated God into little human rules. Is pressing a button on the Sabbath okay? Is eating meat on a Friday okay? Is having an online 'relationship' adultery? Is a same sex relationship hateful to God? Is God on our military side? Will I go directly to heaven if I wrap a bomb on and blow myself up in a public market? We've interpreted, twisted, pontificated to suit our own ends. Every religion can quote its own sacred texts in support of its views. The sect missionaries regularly at my door are word perfect. Slavery, apartheid, wars, keeping women down, burning of witches, cutting off of hands - can all be supported by religious texts. God has allegedly told someone that this was his will. Some human presumed to know the mind of God. When I write that, it makes me want to bow my head in silence. The hubris of a human who says he or she knows the mind of God. This god is way way too small. But then my thoughts on this are just my thoughts.
Over the years I've read lots about prayer, which, for me, means a human trying to open him or herself up to receiving God. Maybe it does sometimes include a shopping list - please God let me find a parking space - but surely not just this kind of thing. Most religions have their mystics and contemplative prayer was a silent emptying oneself in awe before the Divine. Not in any active desire to win some concession or even get an answer to a personal problem - but to be, for a few moments, aware that we live always in the presence of God, creature with Creator. I guess purity of heart is this very simple and yet so very difficut awareness.
"Life is too short to ski with ugly men"
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
scholle-kid;1077911 wrote: If adult can obtain a 'pure' enough heart to pray for something "specifically" and have that prayer answered to the penny , Then don't it stand to reason that a small child who is innocent probally has not 'lost' the pure' heart he/she was born with .
If this be true then what your saying is there is a conection so to speak between a pure haert and gods ears?.
So when some of the horrible things that some people do to children and when that child is in pain and scared and screams for help "specifically" why woulkdn't that prayer be answed "specifically".
That is one of the top reasons I I have about this whole subject of god and prayers and what that book says about the whole thing. I can see where 'bad' things happen to adults after that age of awearness but some of the evil thingd that happen to innocent children . I can't see that. IMO thats wrong to do it and wrong to allow it doine.
And when he will answer your fathers prayer to send building supplies and people and paint . Then why not send some of them men to help a small child when it cries out for help??
I am not asking you to speak for him . I'm just saying in my puny little human way I think that a child in danger is at least as important as a school and orphanage down South. :-5:-5
And that age old handy answer of " We don't know why some things are allowed to happen. but in his wisdom,,,," I can't see it.
Have you ever thought about why you are experiencing life and why you are experiencing life in the body you have? This is the difficult thing in my mind. It's not so much that we humans exist, but the fact that my experience of life is so vividly personal. So, my awareness causes to me to ask, "What happens next". Do I become obliterated into nothing? Do I take over another body? Do I become transferred to another realm of life totally removed from this one? Do I relive my life in an alternative scenario?
Criticising religion is only part of the way forward in my mind.
If this be true then what your saying is there is a conection so to speak between a pure haert and gods ears?.
So when some of the horrible things that some people do to children and when that child is in pain and scared and screams for help "specifically" why woulkdn't that prayer be answed "specifically".
That is one of the top reasons I I have about this whole subject of god and prayers and what that book says about the whole thing. I can see where 'bad' things happen to adults after that age of awearness but some of the evil thingd that happen to innocent children . I can't see that. IMO thats wrong to do it and wrong to allow it doine.
And when he will answer your fathers prayer to send building supplies and people and paint . Then why not send some of them men to help a small child when it cries out for help??
I am not asking you to speak for him . I'm just saying in my puny little human way I think that a child in danger is at least as important as a school and orphanage down South. :-5:-5
And that age old handy answer of " We don't know why some things are allowed to happen. but in his wisdom,,,," I can't see it.
Have you ever thought about why you are experiencing life and why you are experiencing life in the body you have? This is the difficult thing in my mind. It's not so much that we humans exist, but the fact that my experience of life is so vividly personal. So, my awareness causes to me to ask, "What happens next". Do I become obliterated into nothing? Do I take over another body? Do I become transferred to another realm of life totally removed from this one? Do I relive my life in an alternative scenario?
Criticising religion is only part of the way forward in my mind.
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
Jester;1078292 wrote: Instinct? Thats an interesting word to use on humans. I think Will and Emotion reak havoc with 'Instinct'. Instinct is base nature. Knowing you'd run into grave danger ahead of time is not instinct, instinct would ignore grave danger and react instinctively when it encounters danger. Instinct is to run like made the other direction from danger. Instinct is the bodily reaction to stress as in fight or flight, my experience is that most folks take flight and if the fight part happens it is completely out of control and random, even 'lucky'.
I don't think it is 'instinct' to feel danger spiritually, then decide to go into it more cautiously, in fact now that I look at it in retrospect, it's kind of a stupid thing to do.
Okay. You've got a point. I get instinct mixed up with intuition quite a lot. Intuition is something different entirely to instinct.
I don't think it is 'instinct' to feel danger spiritually, then decide to go into it more cautiously, in fact now that I look at it in retrospect, it's kind of a stupid thing to do.
Okay. You've got a point. I get instinct mixed up with intuition quite a lot. Intuition is something different entirely to instinct.
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
Jester;1078322 wrote: Wow, I disagree with all that.
You said "...we are nothing but a collection of buzzy things that happen to make up a body. And we are more than that."
Can I ask you, what 'more' are we? If we are more than that what more is it?
So scientifically we are energy, I agree with that. We are particles and I agree, we are.
What part of our 'will' and 'emotion' is energy? I see we are capable of higher thought, and thought is obviously energy based, but when the thought is expressed what is it made of? When the thought is concieved what is it made of?
A thought cant be percieved by any of the 5 senses yet it can provoke the most powerful emotions we have.
I don't think we are finite beings, because in our natural world we see the possibilities of infinty, we see the vastness of space, the inability to kill energy, and for as far in vastness we can go there is still more and also as miniscule as we can go there is still the possiblity for infinity that direction, there is no real negative numbers in God, creation is as intricatly smaller as it is vastly larger.
A thought actually has substance as far as substance exists in particle form. It has been shown that there is electrical activity along the synapses that correspond with the thoughts. A thought can take the form of a picture, words, music, etc. Whatever we know in life we can imagine in the brain. Albeit, it will leave out irrelevant information for clarity sometimes.
It appears to be emotion that provides the 'carrier frequency' for the transmission of a thought, an idea, or a concept. Emotions exist throughout the body's cellular structure.
How are we more than just a collection of buzzy things? Because the sum is more than its parts. I can't work out how the electrical activity in the brain is translated into sensory experience except by an analogy. If external stimuli is converted to signals in the brain and recorded to memory, then that memory can be replayed and converted to signals that stimulate the same senses.
You said "...we are nothing but a collection of buzzy things that happen to make up a body. And we are more than that."
Can I ask you, what 'more' are we? If we are more than that what more is it?
So scientifically we are energy, I agree with that. We are particles and I agree, we are.
What part of our 'will' and 'emotion' is energy? I see we are capable of higher thought, and thought is obviously energy based, but when the thought is expressed what is it made of? When the thought is concieved what is it made of?
A thought cant be percieved by any of the 5 senses yet it can provoke the most powerful emotions we have.
I don't think we are finite beings, because in our natural world we see the possibilities of infinty, we see the vastness of space, the inability to kill energy, and for as far in vastness we can go there is still more and also as miniscule as we can go there is still the possiblity for infinity that direction, there is no real negative numbers in God, creation is as intricatly smaller as it is vastly larger.
A thought actually has substance as far as substance exists in particle form. It has been shown that there is electrical activity along the synapses that correspond with the thoughts. A thought can take the form of a picture, words, music, etc. Whatever we know in life we can imagine in the brain. Albeit, it will leave out irrelevant information for clarity sometimes.
It appears to be emotion that provides the 'carrier frequency' for the transmission of a thought, an idea, or a concept. Emotions exist throughout the body's cellular structure.
How are we more than just a collection of buzzy things? Because the sum is more than its parts. I can't work out how the electrical activity in the brain is translated into sensory experience except by an analogy. If external stimuli is converted to signals in the brain and recorded to memory, then that memory can be replayed and converted to signals that stimulate the same senses.
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
Jester;1078798 wrote: I agree too, intutiion is one of those things that can be an interseting discussion. I just know there are things that can be communicated spiritually and its not a freaky wild ghost kind of thing, its a thought that transends human communication.
The clearest example I could use would be when I run across a spiritual person, be it an evil spirit or a righteous spirit, I can tell, either an overwhelming peace is in my understanding or a clear presence of danger is felt.
But its difficult to read sometimes, so it makes me belive that its not an all the time thing, its soemthign God allows at certain times.
I don't think that it's a case of God allowing it at certain times as more a case that we disconnect from it. I believe the facility is there all the time. Sometimes, we can discard intuitive information as being ridiculous and then find it right, other times the info can get mixed up with other things on our mind. There's all sorts of reasons why it doesn't get through. The only way I understand for enabling the intuition I learnt through a study of t'ai chi. By emptying the mind of all activity, intuition is given not only free reign but can also help the body to react appropriately.
I confess that I find it hard to stop my mind from constantly chattering.
The clearest example I could use would be when I run across a spiritual person, be it an evil spirit or a righteous spirit, I can tell, either an overwhelming peace is in my understanding or a clear presence of danger is felt.
But its difficult to read sometimes, so it makes me belive that its not an all the time thing, its soemthign God allows at certain times.
I don't think that it's a case of God allowing it at certain times as more a case that we disconnect from it. I believe the facility is there all the time. Sometimes, we can discard intuitive information as being ridiculous and then find it right, other times the info can get mixed up with other things on our mind. There's all sorts of reasons why it doesn't get through. The only way I understand for enabling the intuition I learnt through a study of t'ai chi. By emptying the mind of all activity, intuition is given not only free reign but can also help the body to react appropriately.
I confess that I find it hard to stop my mind from constantly chattering.
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
Jester;1078823 wrote: See thats the interesting part, the thought has no substance because its not real, its something from nothing, Ex-Nihilo, If my latin is right. What you discribe is the mechanism that thought occurs on, but what generates the thought? The will and emoition have to, but what generates the will and enacts the emotional response from it? or what enacts the emotion that the though generates from it?
The body exists, in pure tangible form, but that portion that is spiritual exists in an untangebale form, (the intellect, the will and the emotions)
We are made up of three parts in my understanding: the body (the physical), the soul that part that is the intellect/will/emotions), and the spirit (the unknown awarness that we are a seperate entity). Of the three parts only the body acts in the physical world yet the soul and spirit affects the body. As you say the energy of the thoughts between soul and spirit are tangibly recorded as energy flectuations, it seems reasoanbel to me that 'energy is known to have the universal property of never dying, only changing forms.
To me then, since my soul and spirit are infinite, bodily death is only a tranformation from whay I am limited now, to what will be a body that I can more fully use my soul and spirit in when I meet God, this corruptible will take on incorruptability and I will move in the presence of God in a form acceptable unto him.
In a rude way of speaking, salvation is an agreement that we accept the reality that we live in as the created in the state we exist, it is then that God gives as an extra measure of awarness of how this works between body soul and spirit. The exchange is moving from our born conscience level to an addition of the Holy Spirit, which indwells and completes an additional 'circuit', we awaken to the spiritul side of God, by faith this occurs with the will that finally capitulates to seeing the reality of what God truly is.
Well, a thought is intangible and has no substance that we can actually grasp, but it is no less real for that, otherwise we would not be able to have them. Indeed, once we grasp particle physics, the body itself becomes less tangible, after a manner of speaking. It all amazes me and the more I learn, the more I am amazed by it all. While we understand how electricity lights up a lightbulb (I think you call them something else in the USA but can't think what), we have yet to learn how electricity creates images in the brain. I use the term images here for all mental contructs.
Now you speak of the spirit and the soul. These are interesting concepts. However, I believe them to be products of our bodies insofar as we have an awareness. This leads me to my major conceptual problem at the moment.
Firstly, I do not believe that there is life after death. Until I see evidence that two things can occupy the same space, I cannot accept that there is a separate 'soul' that inhabits the body. For me, the spirit and the soul are products of our awareness and I believe our awareness is a product of our senses. For anything to exist in this universe, it must contain particles. Even light, as intangible as it is, consists of particles. This must follow through for spirit beings also.
However, I find it hard to justify the existence of such a personal experience of awareness that lasts for such a brief duration in the lifetime of the cosmos. I readily recognise that this has been the problem that has driven a lot of people to consider that we ascend to another realm or experience one of many paths after death. My survival instinct wants me to believe that my soul will continue forever.
For the same reason, I have to discard reincarnation as it is currently thought of. To come anywhere close to any such understanding, I must first come to grips with the nature of my experience of my existence. At the moment, I confess that I am nowhere near that.
The body exists, in pure tangible form, but that portion that is spiritual exists in an untangebale form, (the intellect, the will and the emotions)
We are made up of three parts in my understanding: the body (the physical), the soul that part that is the intellect/will/emotions), and the spirit (the unknown awarness that we are a seperate entity). Of the three parts only the body acts in the physical world yet the soul and spirit affects the body. As you say the energy of the thoughts between soul and spirit are tangibly recorded as energy flectuations, it seems reasoanbel to me that 'energy is known to have the universal property of never dying, only changing forms.
To me then, since my soul and spirit are infinite, bodily death is only a tranformation from whay I am limited now, to what will be a body that I can more fully use my soul and spirit in when I meet God, this corruptible will take on incorruptability and I will move in the presence of God in a form acceptable unto him.
In a rude way of speaking, salvation is an agreement that we accept the reality that we live in as the created in the state we exist, it is then that God gives as an extra measure of awarness of how this works between body soul and spirit. The exchange is moving from our born conscience level to an addition of the Holy Spirit, which indwells and completes an additional 'circuit', we awaken to the spiritul side of God, by faith this occurs with the will that finally capitulates to seeing the reality of what God truly is.
Well, a thought is intangible and has no substance that we can actually grasp, but it is no less real for that, otherwise we would not be able to have them. Indeed, once we grasp particle physics, the body itself becomes less tangible, after a manner of speaking. It all amazes me and the more I learn, the more I am amazed by it all. While we understand how electricity lights up a lightbulb (I think you call them something else in the USA but can't think what), we have yet to learn how electricity creates images in the brain. I use the term images here for all mental contructs.
Now you speak of the spirit and the soul. These are interesting concepts. However, I believe them to be products of our bodies insofar as we have an awareness. This leads me to my major conceptual problem at the moment.
Firstly, I do not believe that there is life after death. Until I see evidence that two things can occupy the same space, I cannot accept that there is a separate 'soul' that inhabits the body. For me, the spirit and the soul are products of our awareness and I believe our awareness is a product of our senses. For anything to exist in this universe, it must contain particles. Even light, as intangible as it is, consists of particles. This must follow through for spirit beings also.
However, I find it hard to justify the existence of such a personal experience of awareness that lasts for such a brief duration in the lifetime of the cosmos. I readily recognise that this has been the problem that has driven a lot of people to consider that we ascend to another realm or experience one of many paths after death. My survival instinct wants me to believe that my soul will continue forever.
For the same reason, I have to discard reincarnation as it is currently thought of. To come anywhere close to any such understanding, I must first come to grips with the nature of my experience of my existence. At the moment, I confess that I am nowhere near that.
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
Jester;1078901 wrote: And then after reading what you wrote I realize we talk about different meanings to the same terms as well as different ideaologies.
The Holy Spirit indwelling the beliver is an adjuct to the conscience, I would say it is not a seperate Spirit indwelling us on the physical realm of tangiablity, the Spirit exists but contains no mass or particle. The indwelling of the Spirit of God is an awareness of other spiritual happenings, an understanding of the ways of God on our motives, actions, words and deeds. The spirit is an avenue of understanding of how we enteract on a spiritual plane.
You dilemma in life is the exact predicament of all mankind prior to accepting the reality that exists that we are created and we have a creator and that creator has certain conditions which exist in truth, are universal, and there is no exception. It is that very question, that drives all humans to seek the possiblity of God. God kept a portion of our conscience of self awarness to bring us ot the point that we realize we must choose. I think Scholle brought up the idea for the age of reasoning for a child, 'child like faith' etc. I think the age of reasoning ends at different ages chronologically for people. but it is at the point where the conscience is forst confronted with the full reality of a creator and the person rejects the idea of God. After that I think God slowly stops revealing himself to the person actively, and just the creation around us exists to convince us that God is reality. The only other hope that someone will be convinced of the relaity of God is that another person that Knows God then lives a life that is soemhow attractive to the non believer that give some hope to that person that God does exist. The problem of course is that so many people have rejected God that the truly spiritual person is an oddity, a kook, a nutjob...
...a jester.
:)
The very nature of the concept of God defies proof for or against God's existence. However, from what I have gleaned, the term, God, was created to represent an explanation for those things in life that we simply do not understand or cannot reconcile. I should think that at one time, we were as children from birth to death having no social mores and disciplines to weigh us down. For these people, I have no doubt that death was irreconciliable. Further, the concept of a god would have provided comfort for those people who lived in days when survival was very uncertain. Unfortunately, we are so far removed from the thinking of those peoples in the past that first coined the term, and we have been so ensconced in the Christian concept of God from our youth up, that it has become accepted as Truth. Remember that for children, life is full of magic and the richer for it. Unfortunately, I note that God has also been used to control people.
Interestingly, the human race has reached a point where many people are moving on from giving responsibility for our spirituality to others and accepting personal responsibility. This is a very important movement and it encompasses much of all that has been learnt and is endeavouring to take it forwards to a new level. The subtleties are quite important.
Once, you, Jester, would have been taken to task for starting a thread such as this one and possibly hung for it. Fortunately for us both, this is not going to happen.
Earlier in the thread, I raised the subject of visualisation and purposely drew a comparison with prayers. About a decade ago, I conducted an experiment in visualisation not believing that it would work. But it did. Belief is therefore unimportant. What I have found since is that emotion is what gives visualisation strength, and hence prayer also. Jesus said that man would move mountains. So, I have realised that with this kind of power, it is equally important that we develop positive emotions rather then negative emotions. Sometimes, that's easier said than done. Nonetheless, I am glad that at the moment society is too fragmented to fully appreciate the ability they have. Having said that, it is clear that it is frequently used by some for their own ends. As with anything, there is a cost for its use and it frequently falls upon the masses who have been kept ignorant.
You and I are talking about the same things from different perspectives and reaching different conclusions. I find this amusing for as much as the conversation suits both our purposes.
I have not set out to prove you wrong or myself right but simply to test certain ideas that I have only fairly recently established in my own mind. There are other concepts that I could discuss but they are not relevant here.
In the course of getting here, I have also discovered that many people can hold different views of life and still all be right. After all, it is important that we believe in ourselves. Yet, it is what we give out emotionally that is important. Whether a person is a Jew, a Christian, a Hindi, a Muslim, a Taoist, or a Jedi, compassion is the most important force and children have it. One thing I cannot deny as absolutes are Jesus's two commandments which he issued as greater than Moses's ten. It is only the definition of God, perhaps, upon which we differ.
The Holy Spirit indwelling the beliver is an adjuct to the conscience, I would say it is not a seperate Spirit indwelling us on the physical realm of tangiablity, the Spirit exists but contains no mass or particle. The indwelling of the Spirit of God is an awareness of other spiritual happenings, an understanding of the ways of God on our motives, actions, words and deeds. The spirit is an avenue of understanding of how we enteract on a spiritual plane.
You dilemma in life is the exact predicament of all mankind prior to accepting the reality that exists that we are created and we have a creator and that creator has certain conditions which exist in truth, are universal, and there is no exception. It is that very question, that drives all humans to seek the possiblity of God. God kept a portion of our conscience of self awarness to bring us ot the point that we realize we must choose. I think Scholle brought up the idea for the age of reasoning for a child, 'child like faith' etc. I think the age of reasoning ends at different ages chronologically for people. but it is at the point where the conscience is forst confronted with the full reality of a creator and the person rejects the idea of God. After that I think God slowly stops revealing himself to the person actively, and just the creation around us exists to convince us that God is reality. The only other hope that someone will be convinced of the relaity of God is that another person that Knows God then lives a life that is soemhow attractive to the non believer that give some hope to that person that God does exist. The problem of course is that so many people have rejected God that the truly spiritual person is an oddity, a kook, a nutjob...
...a jester.
:)
The very nature of the concept of God defies proof for or against God's existence. However, from what I have gleaned, the term, God, was created to represent an explanation for those things in life that we simply do not understand or cannot reconcile. I should think that at one time, we were as children from birth to death having no social mores and disciplines to weigh us down. For these people, I have no doubt that death was irreconciliable. Further, the concept of a god would have provided comfort for those people who lived in days when survival was very uncertain. Unfortunately, we are so far removed from the thinking of those peoples in the past that first coined the term, and we have been so ensconced in the Christian concept of God from our youth up, that it has become accepted as Truth. Remember that for children, life is full of magic and the richer for it. Unfortunately, I note that God has also been used to control people.
Interestingly, the human race has reached a point where many people are moving on from giving responsibility for our spirituality to others and accepting personal responsibility. This is a very important movement and it encompasses much of all that has been learnt and is endeavouring to take it forwards to a new level. The subtleties are quite important.
Once, you, Jester, would have been taken to task for starting a thread such as this one and possibly hung for it. Fortunately for us both, this is not going to happen.
Earlier in the thread, I raised the subject of visualisation and purposely drew a comparison with prayers. About a decade ago, I conducted an experiment in visualisation not believing that it would work. But it did. Belief is therefore unimportant. What I have found since is that emotion is what gives visualisation strength, and hence prayer also. Jesus said that man would move mountains. So, I have realised that with this kind of power, it is equally important that we develop positive emotions rather then negative emotions. Sometimes, that's easier said than done. Nonetheless, I am glad that at the moment society is too fragmented to fully appreciate the ability they have. Having said that, it is clear that it is frequently used by some for their own ends. As with anything, there is a cost for its use and it frequently falls upon the masses who have been kept ignorant.
You and I are talking about the same things from different perspectives and reaching different conclusions. I find this amusing for as much as the conversation suits both our purposes.
I have not set out to prove you wrong or myself right but simply to test certain ideas that I have only fairly recently established in my own mind. There are other concepts that I could discuss but they are not relevant here.
In the course of getting here, I have also discovered that many people can hold different views of life and still all be right. After all, it is important that we believe in ourselves. Yet, it is what we give out emotionally that is important. Whether a person is a Jew, a Christian, a Hindi, a Muslim, a Taoist, or a Jedi, compassion is the most important force and children have it. One thing I cannot deny as absolutes are Jesus's two commandments which he issued as greater than Moses's ten. It is only the definition of God, perhaps, upon which we differ.
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
Just thought I'd add. I googled the line, 'life after death' and have come up with quite a lot of references. I shall see if there's anything new amongst them.
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
Jester;1079091 wrote: We should discuss the Jedi more closely, I think thats about the only religion that has not come into play by FORCE yet.:yh_rotfl
Except a long time ago in the future in a galaxy far far away.
Much like Gene Roddenberry and the Federation concept, its Godless.
Had all of Gods word been destroyed he would have allowed me to believe somehow. You see reality is the truth and its universal and it cannot be altered. God is not slack, what he has proimised her will bring to pass, no matter who is left here on earth to believe it or experience it. But since mankind is infinite everybody will eventually know the truth, and expereince it.
Mankind is infinite??????????
Except a long time ago in the future in a galaxy far far away.
Much like Gene Roddenberry and the Federation concept, its Godless.
Had all of Gods word been destroyed he would have allowed me to believe somehow. You see reality is the truth and its universal and it cannot be altered. God is not slack, what he has proimised her will bring to pass, no matter who is left here on earth to believe it or experience it. But since mankind is infinite everybody will eventually know the truth, and expereince it.
Mankind is infinite??????????
"Life is too short to ski with ugly men"
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
Jester;1079091 wrote: We should discuss the Jedi more closely, I think thats about the only religion that has not come into play by FORCE yet.:yh_rotfl
Except a long time ago in the future in a galaxy far far away.
Much like Gene Roddenberry and the Federation concept, its Godless.
Had all of Gods word been destroyed he would have allowed me to believe somehow. You see reality is the truth and its universal and it cannot be altered. God is not slack, what he has proimised her will bring to pass, no matter who is left here on earth to believe it or experience it. But since mankind is infinite everybody will eventually know the truth, and expereince it.
Oh well, Star Wars was produced at a time when God was barely mentioned in science fiction. The genre has come on a long way since then.
Here's an interesting site I just came across since my last post.
Life after death and the Journey through the spirit world
It's not a new concept to me but I'd be interested in your reaction to it.
I'm looking at more that have come up from just googling 'life after death'. I will share if I see any more worthy of sharing. But I must be off to bed shortly.
Except a long time ago in the future in a galaxy far far away.
Much like Gene Roddenberry and the Federation concept, its Godless.
Had all of Gods word been destroyed he would have allowed me to believe somehow. You see reality is the truth and its universal and it cannot be altered. God is not slack, what he has proimised her will bring to pass, no matter who is left here on earth to believe it or experience it. But since mankind is infinite everybody will eventually know the truth, and expereince it.
Oh well, Star Wars was produced at a time when God was barely mentioned in science fiction. The genre has come on a long way since then.
Here's an interesting site I just came across since my last post.
Life after death and the Journey through the spirit world
It's not a new concept to me but I'd be interested in your reaction to it.
I'm looking at more that have come up from just googling 'life after death'. I will share if I see any more worthy of sharing. But I must be off to bed shortly.
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
Jester;1079091 wrote: We should discuss the Jedi more closely, I think thats about the only religion that has not come into play by FORCE yet.:yh_rotfl
Except a long time ago in the future in a galaxy far far away.
Much like Gene Roddenberry and the Federation concept, its Godless.
Had all of Gods word been destroyed he would have allowed me to believe somehow. You see reality is the truth and its universal and it cannot be altered. God is not slack, what he has proimised her will bring to pass, no matter who is left here on earth to believe it or experience it. But since mankind is infinite everybody will eventually know the truth, and expereince it.
I have enjoyed this discussion as an opportunity to challenge my thoughts on this subject that I have considered in the last couple of years or so. It has been taxing but worth the effort I think.
Except a long time ago in the future in a galaxy far far away.
Much like Gene Roddenberry and the Federation concept, its Godless.
Had all of Gods word been destroyed he would have allowed me to believe somehow. You see reality is the truth and its universal and it cannot be altered. God is not slack, what he has proimised her will bring to pass, no matter who is left here on earth to believe it or experience it. But since mankind is infinite everybody will eventually know the truth, and expereince it.
I have enjoyed this discussion as an opportunity to challenge my thoughts on this subject that I have considered in the last couple of years or so. It has been taxing but worth the effort I think.
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
Jester;1079151 wrote: OM you should slide on down to the religious area more often if you want yer mind taxed... but if you want yer income taxed come on over the the US after Jan 20th Obama has a special uptax for everyone!
Thanks but no thanks, Jes. Gotta save up for GB's planned tax hikes once we're out of the mucky poo.:yh_rotfl
Thanks but no thanks, Jes. Gotta save up for GB's planned tax hikes once we're out of the mucky poo.:yh_rotfl
-
scholle-kid
- Posts: 765
- Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:53 pm
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
Thank you open minded for your reply . With 5 stepmothers before my 15th birthday I seen what some adults will do to kids ,their own kids and other peoples kids, and the post I stated my question about why children are allowed to be wronged (to coin a phase) has been an unanswered question ever since the first time I seen what some adults do to kids.
The 4th step mother who had 5 kids of her own ,would line us all up and march us off to church to learn all about the all seeing ,knowing , forgiving, loving God in that book. And the rest of the week was the pure hell that book tells about.
The one thing that came from my childhood was I swore my kids wouldn't know anything about pain and fear of that kind and I made sure it didn't happen to anyone of them. And I was able to help a couple of other peoples kids from living that kind of childhood, while I was raising my kids.
I have not 'kicked the dead horse ' of why things happen to children in a very long time and usually ignore statements on the subject of god and praying. Why I didn't stick to my habit this time I don't know .But it will become a subject I will ignore again after this.
Also Thank you Aussie Pam for your reply.
And Thank you for your reply Jester and I agree that we are to soft on criminals but I won't hijack your thread by going so far off topic.
The 4th step mother who had 5 kids of her own ,would line us all up and march us off to church to learn all about the all seeing ,knowing , forgiving, loving God in that book. And the rest of the week was the pure hell that book tells about.
The one thing that came from my childhood was I swore my kids wouldn't know anything about pain and fear of that kind and I made sure it didn't happen to anyone of them. And I was able to help a couple of other peoples kids from living that kind of childhood, while I was raising my kids.
I have not 'kicked the dead horse ' of why things happen to children in a very long time and usually ignore statements on the subject of god and praying. Why I didn't stick to my habit this time I don't know .But it will become a subject I will ignore again after this.
Also Thank you Aussie Pam for your reply.
And Thank you for your reply Jester and I agree that we are to soft on criminals but I won't hijack your thread by going so far off topic.
There are no savage and civilised peoples; there are only different cultures.
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
Jester;1079158 wrote: oops- more socialism eh? Sorry bud, guess there is more than enough to go around for everybody!
No if we had a socialist government they would nationalise the banks instead of just handing them money with no strings attached. You don't have anything close to socialism in the states you've just been conned in to thinking you do to the extent you can't tell the difference between socialism and corporatism (or to use the name the italians gave it , fascism)
posted by openmind
Oh well, Star Wars was produced at a time when God was barely mentioned in science fiction. The genre has come on a long way since then.
Here's an interesting site I just came across since my last post.
Life after death and the Journey through the spirit world
It's not a new concept to me but I'd be interested in your reaction to it.
I'm looking at more that have come up from just googling 'life after death'. I will share if I see any more worthy of sharing. But I must be off to bed shortly.
Why would god be mentioned in science fiction? If you want stories about gods it's not science fiction you should read but fantasy, myths and legends.
posted by jester
Heres a tough thing to say, the correct question is which group teaches the clearest message of scritpure, and if you asked that I would tell you generally the protestants do. but whats taught and whats learned can be two different things. And this is my experience:
As a yougn sodleir I stepped into a world of vastly different people from the farm and family to a huge military installation and 70 'brothers' over night. I encountered all kinds of people, 99% of which I disagreed with on matters of faith and philosophy and I knew it in an instant, it was plain to me there was nobody like me there.
In training at various posts while tryign to learn my trade in the Army I met a guy named Tom. He was in his 20's I was still 17. He was an unmarried catholic, a teacher by trade and each evenign I saw the man go through his ritual bible reading, prayer time, and sign of the cross. I looked for his hypocracy like I had fastly learned to look in everybody else. I couldn't find any, in fact this 'catholic' was the best 'christian' I had ever met outside my family to that point.
I quizzed him, by asking questiosn and not being too obvious, he belived every component of the catholic religion and yet I know his spirit communed wth mine when we prayed to our God. It hit me then that, belief is stronger than wrote doctrine. Tom belived in God and it was counted to him for righteousness, like Abraham, and so many others of great faith, God had seen fit to examine his heart and commune with him because Tom started with the same level of belief I did as a young man and God honors the pursuit of him, he will reveal himself to those who seek God, and Tom had doen that.
Many years later now, and I still keep in touch with Tom, he is married and has 9 kids, is the dean of students of a private school of non denominational faith, Now Tom still goes to the catholic church, but on matters of doctrine he teaches faith and belief and a practice of obeying the biblical imperitives of the scriptures.
My personal take on religion is that when men take it it gets sticky and it becomes personalized to them, thats not 'my' faith then, its thiers laid out for others to follow, thats not always bad if they keep the basic doctrines and dont get off on tangents, but humanity being what it is I think most 'religions' have gotten off track.
I think there is idolatry possible in any religion, not just the catholics, I think that for the most part people want to focus on others faults and not thier own and I find the argument between catholic and protestant is much of that, they point the finger and say your house is dirty when their own house isnt clean, go clean your own house and then you'll have the time to truly help the one whos house isnt clean. I think in some case the protestants will have a catholic housekeeper and in some cases the catholics will have a protestant housekeeper.
The fault in sect/divisions/and religions belongs with those who fall in the unbeliver catagory more than anywhere else. True belivers are more concerned with thier own heart first and believe me you cant help anyone else till your own heart is dealt with.
Over all religion is man made, God never desgined the church to be anything other than a group that meets, teaches, prays, gives testimony and worships, and encourages each other to go tell others. The MEGA church, and or huge denomination is nothing more than a man made program, and edifice unto human endeavor, God has little to do with that kind of religion in my opinon.
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me you are essentially saying if a man finds his way to god how he actually gets there doesn't really matter just so long as he gets there. So why the hang up (not you specifically but generally) about what is the right way to worship and why are so many monotheists prepared to kill over it. Most of the religious wars between protestant and catholic were about how to worship the son of god who brought a message of peace. Maybe irony is god's gift to the godless cause the godly never seem to understand the point. You yourself seem happy to go to war against islam because it is a false message, to a muslim you are an unbeliever yet you both worship the same god.
No if we had a socialist government they would nationalise the banks instead of just handing them money with no strings attached. You don't have anything close to socialism in the states you've just been conned in to thinking you do to the extent you can't tell the difference between socialism and corporatism (or to use the name the italians gave it , fascism)
posted by openmind
Oh well, Star Wars was produced at a time when God was barely mentioned in science fiction. The genre has come on a long way since then.
Here's an interesting site I just came across since my last post.
Life after death and the Journey through the spirit world
It's not a new concept to me but I'd be interested in your reaction to it.
I'm looking at more that have come up from just googling 'life after death'. I will share if I see any more worthy of sharing. But I must be off to bed shortly.
Why would god be mentioned in science fiction? If you want stories about gods it's not science fiction you should read but fantasy, myths and legends.
posted by jester
Heres a tough thing to say, the correct question is which group teaches the clearest message of scritpure, and if you asked that I would tell you generally the protestants do. but whats taught and whats learned can be two different things. And this is my experience:
As a yougn sodleir I stepped into a world of vastly different people from the farm and family to a huge military installation and 70 'brothers' over night. I encountered all kinds of people, 99% of which I disagreed with on matters of faith and philosophy and I knew it in an instant, it was plain to me there was nobody like me there.
In training at various posts while tryign to learn my trade in the Army I met a guy named Tom. He was in his 20's I was still 17. He was an unmarried catholic, a teacher by trade and each evenign I saw the man go through his ritual bible reading, prayer time, and sign of the cross. I looked for his hypocracy like I had fastly learned to look in everybody else. I couldn't find any, in fact this 'catholic' was the best 'christian' I had ever met outside my family to that point.
I quizzed him, by asking questiosn and not being too obvious, he belived every component of the catholic religion and yet I know his spirit communed wth mine when we prayed to our God. It hit me then that, belief is stronger than wrote doctrine. Tom belived in God and it was counted to him for righteousness, like Abraham, and so many others of great faith, God had seen fit to examine his heart and commune with him because Tom started with the same level of belief I did as a young man and God honors the pursuit of him, he will reveal himself to those who seek God, and Tom had doen that.
Many years later now, and I still keep in touch with Tom, he is married and has 9 kids, is the dean of students of a private school of non denominational faith, Now Tom still goes to the catholic church, but on matters of doctrine he teaches faith and belief and a practice of obeying the biblical imperitives of the scriptures.
My personal take on religion is that when men take it it gets sticky and it becomes personalized to them, thats not 'my' faith then, its thiers laid out for others to follow, thats not always bad if they keep the basic doctrines and dont get off on tangents, but humanity being what it is I think most 'religions' have gotten off track.
I think there is idolatry possible in any religion, not just the catholics, I think that for the most part people want to focus on others faults and not thier own and I find the argument between catholic and protestant is much of that, they point the finger and say your house is dirty when their own house isnt clean, go clean your own house and then you'll have the time to truly help the one whos house isnt clean. I think in some case the protestants will have a catholic housekeeper and in some cases the catholics will have a protestant housekeeper.
The fault in sect/divisions/and religions belongs with those who fall in the unbeliver catagory more than anywhere else. True belivers are more concerned with thier own heart first and believe me you cant help anyone else till your own heart is dealt with.
Over all religion is man made, God never desgined the church to be anything other than a group that meets, teaches, prays, gives testimony and worships, and encourages each other to go tell others. The MEGA church, and or huge denomination is nothing more than a man made program, and edifice unto human endeavor, God has little to do with that kind of religion in my opinon.
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me you are essentially saying if a man finds his way to god how he actually gets there doesn't really matter just so long as he gets there. So why the hang up (not you specifically but generally) about what is the right way to worship and why are so many monotheists prepared to kill over it. Most of the religious wars between protestant and catholic were about how to worship the son of god who brought a message of peace. Maybe irony is god's gift to the godless cause the godly never seem to understand the point. You yourself seem happy to go to war against islam because it is a false message, to a muslim you are an unbeliever yet you both worship the same god.
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
I believe in God because as many times as I have thought I dont I always 'feel' this inner faith and there is nothing I can or want to deny about it any longer. I have always felt that unfortunately church attendance can sometimes dampen someones belief as it is sometimes forced upon you, whether it be by your parents or just the peer pressure of the local congregation. I also think it is such a shame that because Christianity is divided up into so many sub groups this creates an unnatural division between people who ultimately believe the same.
In my life I have had very mixed experience and I cant put all the times I have been 'saved' down to luck. I read the bible cover to cover and felt that amongst all the words was just a clear resounding way to live a good life and thats what I took from it. I realised how to make myself a better person and I feel if I can be as close to that example as possible I will die happy. Paragons dont excist but at least I feel I know the way to aspire to be.....with that example to follow I can only hope that I get what I give to those around me.
In my life I have had very mixed experience and I cant put all the times I have been 'saved' down to luck. I read the bible cover to cover and felt that amongst all the words was just a clear resounding way to live a good life and thats what I took from it. I realised how to make myself a better person and I feel if I can be as close to that example as possible I will die happy. Paragons dont excist but at least I feel I know the way to aspire to be.....with that example to follow I can only hope that I get what I give to those around me.
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
GMC:
Why would god be mentioned in science fiction?
God has as much place as any other subject in science fiction even if the story depicts the future. After all, we are still likely to have god-fearing societies or people in the future. The very existence of such a society is likely to bring about a situation because they believe in a god even if it is just to declare war on another nation because they are considered to be anti-theist. That's just one reason. There's plenty more but at the end of the day it's up to the author. I'm happy to say that there is now science fiction that includes religious ideals in the make up of a race.
God and religion is not just for fantasy, myth and legend, it is very much a part of every day life which science fiction builds upon.
Why would god be mentioned in science fiction?
God has as much place as any other subject in science fiction even if the story depicts the future. After all, we are still likely to have god-fearing societies or people in the future. The very existence of such a society is likely to bring about a situation because they believe in a god even if it is just to declare war on another nation because they are considered to be anti-theist. That's just one reason. There's plenty more but at the end of the day it's up to the author. I'm happy to say that there is now science fiction that includes religious ideals in the make up of a race.
God and religion is not just for fantasy, myth and legend, it is very much a part of every day life which science fiction builds upon.
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
Only1:
I read the bible cover to cover and felt that amongst all the words was just a clear resounding way to live a good life and thats what I took from it.
You have my full respect for doing this. I have tried many times to read the entirety of the bible but have never succeeded for one reason or another.
I read the bible cover to cover and felt that amongst all the words was just a clear resounding way to live a good life and thats what I took from it.
You have my full respect for doing this. I have tried many times to read the entirety of the bible but have never succeeded for one reason or another.
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
GMC:
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me you are essentially saying if a man finds his way to god how he actually gets there doesn't really matter just so long as he gets there. So why the hang up (not you specifically but generally) about what is the right way to worship and why are so many monotheists prepared to kill over it. Most of the religious wars between protestant and catholic were about how to worship the son of god who brought a message of peace.
What you posit is essentially wrapped up in St. Luke's version of Jesus's crucifixion when Jesus states to one of the thieves crucified with him that he would go to paradise.
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me you are essentially saying if a man finds his way to god how he actually gets there doesn't really matter just so long as he gets there. So why the hang up (not you specifically but generally) about what is the right way to worship and why are so many monotheists prepared to kill over it. Most of the religious wars between protestant and catholic were about how to worship the son of god who brought a message of peace.
What you posit is essentially wrapped up in St. Luke's version of Jesus's crucifixion when Jesus states to one of the thieves crucified with him that he would go to paradise.
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
OpenMind;1081787 wrote: GMC:
God has as much place as any other subject in science fiction even if the story depicts the future. After all, we are still likely to have god-fearing societies or people in the future. The very existence of such a society is likely to bring about a situation because they believe in a god even if it is just to declare war on another nation because they are considered to be anti-theist. That's just one reason. There's plenty more but at the end of the day it's up to the author. I'm happy to say that there is now science fiction that includes religious ideals in the make up of a race.
God and religion is not just for fantasy, myth and legend, it is very much a part of every day life which science fiction builds upon.
Stories about gods I would agree, have a place as part of an imagined universe, however stories about gods and magic are fantasy IMO. Star wars had religion in it, hopefully you are not one of those that believe only the accepted view of god should be allowed.
posted by open mind
What you posit is essentially wrapped up in St. Luke's version of Jesus's crucifixion when Jesus states to one of the thieves crucified with him that he would go to paradise.
So answer the question. why the hang up about the right way to worship. Christian slaughtered christian over who had the right of it and some still would given half a chance. I'm not religious I don't think it matters but many religious people. Many of the posts in the religious forum refer to Christianity as the one true religion (which version of christianity I shall aside) as opposed to islam a false god. It makes no sense to me since if you believe there is onkly one god you must all believe in the same one.
God has as much place as any other subject in science fiction even if the story depicts the future. After all, we are still likely to have god-fearing societies or people in the future. The very existence of such a society is likely to bring about a situation because they believe in a god even if it is just to declare war on another nation because they are considered to be anti-theist. That's just one reason. There's plenty more but at the end of the day it's up to the author. I'm happy to say that there is now science fiction that includes religious ideals in the make up of a race.
God and religion is not just for fantasy, myth and legend, it is very much a part of every day life which science fiction builds upon.
Stories about gods I would agree, have a place as part of an imagined universe, however stories about gods and magic are fantasy IMO. Star wars had religion in it, hopefully you are not one of those that believe only the accepted view of god should be allowed.
posted by open mind
What you posit is essentially wrapped up in St. Luke's version of Jesus's crucifixion when Jesus states to one of the thieves crucified with him that he would go to paradise.
So answer the question. why the hang up about the right way to worship. Christian slaughtered christian over who had the right of it and some still would given half a chance. I'm not religious I don't think it matters but many religious people. Many of the posts in the religious forum refer to Christianity as the one true religion (which version of christianity I shall aside) as opposed to islam a false god. It makes no sense to me since if you believe there is onkly one god you must all believe in the same one.
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
gmc;1081837 wrote: Stories about gods I would agree, have a place as part of an imagined universe, however stories about gods and magic are fantasy IMO. Star wars had religion in it, hopefully you are not one of those that believe only the accepted view of god should be allowed.
posted by open mind
So answer the question. why the hang up about the right way to worship. Christian slaughtered christian over who had the right of it and some still would given half a chance. I'm not religious I don't think it matters but many religious people. Many of the posts in the religious forum refer to Christianity as the one true religion (which version of christianity I shall aside) as opposed to islam a false god. It makes no sense to me since if you believe there is onkly one god you must all believe in the same one.
If you want to know my view, read my earlier posts on this thread.
You want me to answer your question after my last post? In my mind, there is more than one reason. Politics is probably the most prominent one. Remember also that the general public was not allowed a copy of the bible until King James II decreed it so and a lot of blood was spilt for this right. Yet, I do not think I have read anywhere in the bible whether we should be given this right or not. The Christian church has been split almost since its inception 300+ years after Jesus was crucified.
Neither is there anything in the bible that I know of that justifies the bloodshed and wars that have ensued on behalf of God, Jesus or the bible.
The major divisions in Christianity appear to be political whereas the minor divisions appear to be dependent on the interpretation of certain passages in the New Testament. The latter would have been a good reason for not allowing everyone to have a copy of the bible.
Then there would be the various personal preferences of the churchgoers such as, "I think the vicar is so nice".
So, altogether, I am really the wrong person to demand an answer from.
posted by open mind
So answer the question. why the hang up about the right way to worship. Christian slaughtered christian over who had the right of it and some still would given half a chance. I'm not religious I don't think it matters but many religious people. Many of the posts in the religious forum refer to Christianity as the one true religion (which version of christianity I shall aside) as opposed to islam a false god. It makes no sense to me since if you believe there is onkly one god you must all believe in the same one.
If you want to know my view, read my earlier posts on this thread.
You want me to answer your question after my last post? In my mind, there is more than one reason. Politics is probably the most prominent one. Remember also that the general public was not allowed a copy of the bible until King James II decreed it so and a lot of blood was spilt for this right. Yet, I do not think I have read anywhere in the bible whether we should be given this right or not. The Christian church has been split almost since its inception 300+ years after Jesus was crucified.
Neither is there anything in the bible that I know of that justifies the bloodshed and wars that have ensued on behalf of God, Jesus or the bible.
The major divisions in Christianity appear to be political whereas the minor divisions appear to be dependent on the interpretation of certain passages in the New Testament. The latter would have been a good reason for not allowing everyone to have a copy of the bible.
Then there would be the various personal preferences of the churchgoers such as, "I think the vicar is so nice".
So, altogether, I am really the wrong person to demand an answer from.
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
I believe in the Chia Pet God. It grows on you.
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
qsducks;1081875 wrote: I believe in the Chia Pet God. It grows on you.
I have enough with warts and pimples growing on me.:wah:
I have enough with warts and pimples growing on me.:wah:
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
OpenMind;1081881 wrote: I have enough with warts and pimples growing on me.:wah:
You sound like you really need a Chia Polar Bear.:wah:
You sound like you really need a Chia Polar Bear.:wah:
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
OpenMind;1081871 wrote: If you want to know my view, read my earlier posts on this thread.
You want me to answer your question after my last post? In my mind, there is more than one reason. Politics is probably the most prominent one. Remember also that the general public was not allowed a copy of the bible until King James II decreed it so and a lot of blood was spilt for this right. Yet, I do not think I have read anywhere in the bible whether we should be given this right or not. The Christian church has been split almost since its inception 300+ years after Jesus was crucified.
Neither is there anything in the bible that I know of that justifies the bloodshed and wars that have ensued on behalf of God, Jesus or the bible.
The major divisions in Christianity appear to be political whereas the minor divisions appear to be dependent on the interpretation of certain passages in the New Testament. The latter would have been a good reason for not allowing everyone to have a copy of the bible.
Then there would be the various personal preferences of the churchgoers such as, "I think the vicar is so nice".
So, altogether, I am really the wrong person to demand an answer from.
see what you mean
Religion is nothing more than a political tool to scare people into doing as they are told and to deny there own senses of wrongness.
Hadn't actually read your posts in detail. My question was aimed more at jester, him being of a more religious bent.
The catholic/protestant conflict was political and economic but also religious-the first commandment -thou shalt have no other god but me-since Catholics worship idols and saints there is scope for a good hate fest there. It's a moot point whether the minor divisions about religious differences are less important. Certainly people were ready to kill and be killed over those minor differences. Many still would and indeed.
catholic, protestant, muslim they all worship the same god does it really matter if they do it in different ways? It's a stupid thing to go to war over imo. But it's a question that someone who believes in god has to answer
Incidentally there were plenty of translations of the bible around hence the need for a new authorised version. incidentally it was james the 1st-a homosexual which fact is satisfyingly annoying to bring up in the right company.
You want me to answer your question after my last post? In my mind, there is more than one reason. Politics is probably the most prominent one. Remember also that the general public was not allowed a copy of the bible until King James II decreed it so and a lot of blood was spilt for this right. Yet, I do not think I have read anywhere in the bible whether we should be given this right or not. The Christian church has been split almost since its inception 300+ years after Jesus was crucified.
Neither is there anything in the bible that I know of that justifies the bloodshed and wars that have ensued on behalf of God, Jesus or the bible.
The major divisions in Christianity appear to be political whereas the minor divisions appear to be dependent on the interpretation of certain passages in the New Testament. The latter would have been a good reason for not allowing everyone to have a copy of the bible.
Then there would be the various personal preferences of the churchgoers such as, "I think the vicar is so nice".
So, altogether, I am really the wrong person to demand an answer from.
see what you mean
Religion is nothing more than a political tool to scare people into doing as they are told and to deny there own senses of wrongness.
Hadn't actually read your posts in detail. My question was aimed more at jester, him being of a more religious bent.
The catholic/protestant conflict was political and economic but also religious-the first commandment -thou shalt have no other god but me-since Catholics worship idols and saints there is scope for a good hate fest there. It's a moot point whether the minor divisions about religious differences are less important. Certainly people were ready to kill and be killed over those minor differences. Many still would and indeed.
catholic, protestant, muslim they all worship the same god does it really matter if they do it in different ways? It's a stupid thing to go to war over imo. But it's a question that someone who believes in god has to answer
Incidentally there were plenty of translations of the bible around hence the need for a new authorised version. incidentally it was james the 1st-a homosexual which fact is satisfyingly annoying to bring up in the right company.
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
gmc;1082571 wrote: see what you mean
Hadn't actually read your posts in detail. My question was aimed more at jester, him being of a more religious bent.
The catholic/protestant conflict was political and economic but also religious-the first commandment -thou shalt have no other god but me-since Catholics worship idols and saints there is scope for a good hate fest there. It's a moot point whether the minor divisions about religious differences are less important. Certainly people were ready to kill and be killed over those minor differences. Many still would and indeed.
catholic, protestant, muslim they all worship the same god does it really matter if they do it in different ways? It's a stupid thing to go to war over imo. But it's a question that someone who believes in god has to answer
Incidentally there were plenty of translations of the bible around hence the need for a new authorised version. incidentally it was james the 1st-a homosexual which fact is satisfyingly annoying to bring up in the right company.
I think diversity of opinion is healthy. We all have a different life story to tell and this enables discussion and debate so that we can learn from each other. Most people are stubborn with their opinions but given our different experiences, we should always respect the other person's right to disagree peacefully.
Hadn't actually read your posts in detail. My question was aimed more at jester, him being of a more religious bent.
The catholic/protestant conflict was political and economic but also religious-the first commandment -thou shalt have no other god but me-since Catholics worship idols and saints there is scope for a good hate fest there. It's a moot point whether the minor divisions about religious differences are less important. Certainly people were ready to kill and be killed over those minor differences. Many still would and indeed.
catholic, protestant, muslim they all worship the same god does it really matter if they do it in different ways? It's a stupid thing to go to war over imo. But it's a question that someone who believes in god has to answer
Incidentally there were plenty of translations of the bible around hence the need for a new authorised version. incidentally it was james the 1st-a homosexual which fact is satisfyingly annoying to bring up in the right company.
I think diversity of opinion is healthy. We all have a different life story to tell and this enables discussion and debate so that we can learn from each other. Most people are stubborn with their opinions but given our different experiences, we should always respect the other person's right to disagree peacefully.
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
OpenMind;1082683 wrote: I think diversity of opinion is healthy. We all have a different life story to tell and this enables discussion and debate so that we can learn from each other. Most people are stubborn with their opinions but given our different experiences, we should always respect the other person's right to disagree peacefully.
So who isn't disagreeing peacefully?
I always think if you can't explain why you hold a particular opinion you are not expressing one of your own but repeating what you have heard without thinking critically about it.
Although believing in god isn't like having an opinion is it?:sneaky: Those most hostile to those who do not share their beliefs in some cases haven't actually given the matter any real thought.
So who isn't disagreeing peacefully?
I always think if you can't explain why you hold a particular opinion you are not expressing one of your own but repeating what you have heard without thinking critically about it.
Although believing in god isn't like having an opinion is it?:sneaky: Those most hostile to those who do not share their beliefs in some cases haven't actually given the matter any real thought.
If you believe in God why do you believe in God?
gmc;1082842 wrote: So who isn't disagreeing peacefully?
I always think if you can't explain why you hold a particular opinion you are not expressing one of your own but repeating what you have heard without thinking critically about it.
Although believing in god isn't like having an opinion is it?:sneaky: Those most hostile to those who do not share their beliefs in some cases haven't actually given the matter any real thought.
I wasn't referring to anyone in particular when I say 'agree peacefully', I was making a general statement. My own opinion which I have discovered not everyone I have encountered in my life agrees with.
Critical thinking is a skill that most, but not all, people need to learn if they are to use it. It doesn't appear to be everone's tool to want to think about a subject if they can use someone else's opinion. C'est la vie. Hence the popularity of clever single sentence 'wrap it all up in one' quotes. The lack of the desire to think is a further reason why people are so easily led, like lemmings, to do the bidding of a prominent person. We are essentially social beasts and very few people can bear being cast out for holding an unpopular view it seems - despite what they would otherwise say.
Believing in God might be considered an opinion. From my perspective, though, it's just a term for those things in life that we cannot explain - yet. That's just my opinion.
I always think if you can't explain why you hold a particular opinion you are not expressing one of your own but repeating what you have heard without thinking critically about it.
Although believing in god isn't like having an opinion is it?:sneaky: Those most hostile to those who do not share their beliefs in some cases haven't actually given the matter any real thought.
I wasn't referring to anyone in particular when I say 'agree peacefully', I was making a general statement. My own opinion which I have discovered not everyone I have encountered in my life agrees with.
Critical thinking is a skill that most, but not all, people need to learn if they are to use it. It doesn't appear to be everone's tool to want to think about a subject if they can use someone else's opinion. C'est la vie. Hence the popularity of clever single sentence 'wrap it all up in one' quotes. The lack of the desire to think is a further reason why people are so easily led, like lemmings, to do the bidding of a prominent person. We are essentially social beasts and very few people can bear being cast out for holding an unpopular view it seems - despite what they would otherwise say.
Believing in God might be considered an opinion. From my perspective, though, it's just a term for those things in life that we cannot explain - yet. That's just my opinion.