Simple question..

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:57 am

Do people REALLY think that mankind alone has the power or ability to cure the world's ills?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:14 am

Hey, we made 'em, didn't we? :-5

There is little beyond the imagination of man, except possibly mass mutual trust.

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:19 am

Like the tower of babel, I think man has made the problems too big to fix.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:23 am

I'm not sure the mind of man was made for truly global thinking. Too easy to get overwhelmed. It's too early in the morning here in the US to be depressed about the future. Flowers that died last year are blooming.

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:07 am

LOL! There's a good philosophy in that somewhere!

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:55 pm

Raven wrote: Do people REALLY think that mankind alone has the power or ability to cure the world's ills?

What ills, Raven? List a couple. I think some might be cured.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:24 pm

I think the answer is we better start or "Mother Earth" will tell us otherwise. It seems to be starting to do so now.

Some scientists give us 20 years to make a more then half hearted start otherwise it will be too late.

Now that Shrubby has finally admitted that the problem is of human causation maybe, just maybe something with start. Though he is more worried about his blessed economy then he is the future of mankind. All the money in the world won't help him out if the world can no longer support human life.

Shalom

Ted:-6

mominiowa · Post by **mominiowa** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:40 pm

Cured? hmmmm- ...I believe - its the goverments way of "cleaning house" Never cure the sick, do not give out the cure- becuase the world would be over populated....I know there is not one person who agrees with this - as I have argued it before......This is JMO and I think I am RIGHT!

Why would the goverment want to give up thousands of opportunities to make more money from drug companies-on meds that don't quite cure you- but make you better ,just so you can start to feel like normal and get sick again...Yeah yeah MOM quit feeling sorry for yourself...I have heard it before.........like I said---JMO

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:50 pm

I've heard similar theories, only it's the drug companies making the decisions and the money and not finding the cures on purpose.

I choose to believe that it would be a rare human indeed that would work to get into a position of such power and refuse to get his name on a miracle drug. Which would be better, riches or a place in history next to Pasteur? Well, these guys could have both. I can't believe they would pass it up if they had the choice.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 2:27 pm

It seems to me that the aim of all multinationals including drug companies is first and foremost to make money. If folks get cured as a sideline so much the better. But money comes first. Its called greed.

Shalom

Ted:-6

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:34 pm

mominiowa wrote: Cured? hmmmm- ...I believe - its the goverments way of "cleaning house" Never cure the sick, do not give out the cure- becuase the world would be over populated....I know there is not one person who agrees with this -
Actually mom, there is. Me. I have a couple friends who work for some of the big drug companies, (Pfizer, etc...) who are 99% sure that the cure for cancer AND AIDS has already been developed. But, to kill these two major diseases would mean no more money for research and development. Call me paranoid, but there is some logic in it. Kinda makes you think. Not to mention that the almighty dollar has been placed as a higher priority over the general well-being of the population many times before.

So, to answer the original question, no, I don't think we have it in us to cure the world's ails, because our priorities are too F-ed up and they ain't gettin' any better.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 6:53 am

BabyRider wrote: Actually mom, there is. Me. I have a couple friends who work for some of the big drug companies, (Pfizer, etc...) who are 99% sure that the cure for cancer AND AIDS has already been developed. But, to kill these two major diseases would mean no more money for research and development. Call me paranoid, but there is some logic in it. Kinda makes you think. Not to mention that the almighty dollar has been placed as a higher priority over the general well-being of the population many times before.

So, to answer the original question, no, I don't think we have it in us to cure the world's ails, because our priorities are too F-ed up and they ain't gettin' any better.
I disagree, but man wouldn't it be a good movie? Developer of the cure for cancer tries to blow the whistle, then has to run for his life from contract killers.

Wolverine · Post by **Wolverine** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 7:04 am

i didn't realize that MOM was our resident Conspiracy Theorist:wah:

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:12 am

i don't buy it. the founder of a cure for any fatal or horrible disease would be rightfully clamoring for his/her Nobel prize. of course it is rare for one person to claim credit since many are involved in research. last one was probably Jonas Salk for polio vaccine.

Wolverine · Post by **Wolverine** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:22 am

Raven wrote: Do people REALLY think that mankind alone has the power or ability to cure the world's ills?
not at present. but give "us" time and we will.

they are coming up with newer, better "cocktails" for AIDS almost every month.

and cancer survival is 10fold what it was 10 years ago.

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:12 pm

mominiowa wrote: Cured? hmmmm- ...I believe - its the goverments way of "cleaning house" Never cure the sick, do not give out the cure- becuase the world would be over populated....I know there is not one person who agrees with this - as I have argued it before......This is JMO and I think I am RIGHT!

Why would the goverment want to give up thousands of opportunities to make more money from drug companies-on meds that don't quite cure you- but make you better ,just so you can start to feel like normal and get sick again...Yeah yeah MOM quit feeling sorry for yourself...I have heard it before.........like I said---JMO

I'm not "cured" yet - have 4 more years to wait on that. I do know mastectomy and chemo saved my life for the time being. It cost me $78,000.00 - out of pocket - and I will be paying until I am declared cured and beyond. I could not qualify for any assistance programs, had no insurance and was told -- well looks like you're gonna die so sell everything you have and come back and reapply for assistance - of course the amount of time that will take will be your death warrant.

THEN everyone charged me full price and not the price the HMO's get to pay - bastardo's.

mominiowa · Post by **mominiowa** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 4:55 pm

They have a cure for AIDS - No doubt in my mind...My neice works for Merk and she too beleives that the drug companies are cashing in- My gawd - she is a rep and makes 56,000 - just out of college at 23? PLEASE! Like NV said- she too has paid through the nose because we could not afford insurance..Now I pay a 536$ premium a month....Out of pocket I have been charged 96,000 - But if a young girl that needs a reduction goes in -it can be covered by insurance - She gets her breasts enlarged/reduced and can get it done for 6000$ a peice.Hello I have mine removed and it cost me 60,000$ WTF!!! It is just bogus that we have to go through life paying bills to save our lives..when I had insurance - I still pay almost 600$ a month for drugs and 9000$ a bag for chemo...I will have a debt beyond beleif if I pass - and my family should not have to be responsible..Dear Lord - If my husband gets stuck with this bill I will be heart broken...well thats if u can feel anything after you die....Boo hoo yada yada- I will fight tooth and nail to still recieve my life insurance policy - wether I have to step out in front of a train after I know there is nothing more they can do - and it can be called an accidental death!!!!!!!:mad: People who are drug addicts and have physic problems qualify for state help but people who have a medical condition that is killing them can not.I have paid taxes - I have worked 3 jobs supporting my kids- only to have drawn off them 1 time when my husband first left and they helped with my rent.....I am proud - but not stupid- I HAVE asked for help and I hear the same thing---YOU DON'T QUALIFY!

I am sorry to get off the subject but wanted NV to know - I feel your pain...right in our back pockets!! BUT we are alive! and still fighting!!!!!!!!! I love ya girl!:-4

mominiowa · Post by **mominiowa** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 4:56 pm

I did join a study and got a discount - but took meds I didn't know anything about- so I can't completey say I didn't get a small break......

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:01 pm

I think its a damned shame that in a country that can afford billions for armaments that the average citizen cannnot get decent medical treatment without it costing everything you ever earned and then some. Is this the "Great American Dream"?

I know that here in Canada we do have our problems but society at large has told the government they had better fix medicare and not mess it up. Our problem right now is waiting time. It is being fixed slowly.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:44 pm

nvalleyvee/mom:-6

I do hope and pray for the best for both of you. I am not there but I do have some empathy for what you are going through.

Shalom

Ted:-6

mominiowa · Post by **mominiowa** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:21 pm

Thank you Ted!! ~ I kind of ranted for a minute and apologize......I know what I am doing is for the best...I want to see my kids raised...and I will pay for that eagerly - if it means I am with them for as long as God sees fit! Thank you again!:-6

mominiowa · Post by **mominiowa** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:29 pm

Hey there Far- Do me a favor will ya...:-4 I am leaving for the University Hosp. in the afternoon Tuesday - and don't want people to wonder where I have gone...IF anyone asks - let them know will ya??~ Thanks! Just 2 days worth of tests and some new dye shots...Wish me LUCK! By the way- I am suppose to be winning that Harley on Thursday night - so keep ur fingers crossed!!

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:48 am

Ted wrote: I think its a damned shame that in a country that can afford billions for armaments that the average citizen cannnot get decent medical treatment without it costing everything you ever earned and then some. Is this the "Great American Dream"?

I know that here in Canada we do have our problems but society at large has told the government they had better fix medicare and not mess it up. Our problem right now is waiting time. It is being fixed slowly.

Shalom

Ted:-6
I think people ought to stop depending on the government to fix stuff. Get the gov't out of charitable issues altogether and cut defense spending by half (better money management could do that and even enhance defense). Citizens could take the windfall and give to charities of their choice or maybe afford to pay their own way. Politicians have to do something only to show they have done something. Otherwise, how can they justify re-election? As a result, they waste money on issues the government should not be involved in.

You want to cure the worlds ills? Start with shrinking gov't down from mastiff size to pug.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:08 pm

I do feel very strongly that the government should be running medicare. Costs of tests and treatments and stays in the hospital are simply beyond the average citizen both here in Canada and in the US.

Here in Canada, if you need treatment you get it and there are no questions about your bank account. How many Americans have no coverage because they cannot meet the costs of insurance.

It is my belief that properly run there is no reason that public health care shouldn't cost less then private health care. If there are no profits then all the money should be available for vital services.

Here in BC they have tried some privitization in the health care system: cleaning staff and meals. The hospitals do not pass cleanliness inspections and the meals are worse then terrible. Thank God my wife brought me in some apples and bananas. I drank their louse coffee and tea pushed the tray away and ate fruit. If I have a next time I think I'll get my wife to bring me a take out from Swiss Chalet. Anything would be better then that crap they served.

BTW our food in many BC hospitals is prepared in Toronto and flown out three times daily. Saving money? That is a laugh and a half. Decent food it ain't.

Shalom

Ted

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:10 pm

mom:-6

You are in my prayers. Best of luck on all counts even the Harley.

I had an uncle now deceased who rode the big harleys even at 72.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:32 am

Ted wrote: I do feel very strongly that the government should be running medicare. Costs of tests and treatments and stays in the hospital are simply beyond the average citizen both here in Canada and in the US.
They are high because we have taken the natural supply & demand mechanism for price control away. People don't care about the cost because insurance (or the government) will pay for it. The testing facility keeps raising it's prices because large bureaucracies can't track costs effectively. The government has created the unintended consequence of prohibitively high medical costs.

Ted wrote: Here in Canada, if you need treatment you get it and there are no questions about your bank account. How many Americans have no coverage because they cannot meet the costs of insurance.
Not a single one, not even illegal aliens. The very rich and very poor are the ones that get the best medical care money can buy. The middle-class are the ones that suffer - too much money to get gov't assistance, yet too poor to afford the good insurance.

Ted wrote: It is my belief that properly run there is no reason that public health care shouldn't cost less then private health care. If there are no profits then all the money should be available for vital services.
Pull back the curtain, Ted. You're only acknowledging the costs that come from your pocket at the end of the show. How much are you and every other hard-working taxpayer paying in advance? Also, you seem unconcerned about the quality of this costless (priceless) healthcare. What incentive is there for a doctor to ever strive to be more than mediocre?

And remember that non-profit only means you get to spend all the money.

Ted wrote: Here in BC they have tried some privitization in the health care system: cleaning staff and meals. The hospitals do not pass cleanliness inspections and the meals are worse then terrible. Thank God my wife brought me in some apples and bananas. I drank their louse coffee and tea pushed the tray away and ate fruit. If I have a next time I think I'll get my wife to bring me a take out from Swiss Chalet. Anything would be better then that crap they served.

BTW our food in many BC hospitals is prepared in Toronto and flown out three times daily. Saving money? That is a laugh and a half. Decent food it ain't.
Partial privatization only means your tax dollar going to the same bureaucrat to put in a different pocket. The government contracts the lowest bid, full stop. They don't cosider the number of corners the contractor cuts to get that bid. Also, the contract remains in effect for the full term - years, Ted - no matter how crappy the service really is. It doesn't matter if the contract isn't renewed. The owner will just create another paper corporation and make a new bid next time.

It will only get worse until the government collapses under it's own rot. Then people will start taking responsibility for their own affairs, as they should have done from the beginning. If we don't want our respective societies to go the way of the Soviet Union, we need to stop relinquishing our responsibilities to our governments.

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:14 pm

mominiowa wrote: Hey there Far- Do me a favor will ya...:-4 I am leaving for the University Hosp. in the afternoon Tuesday - and don't want people to wonder where I have gone...IF anyone asks - let them know will ya??~ Thanks! Just 2 days worth of tests and some new dye shots...Wish me LUCK! By the way- I am suppose to be winning that Harley on Thursday night - so keep ur fingers crossed!! :DMom, i missed your post as i generally steer clear of religious threads (no disrespect)

All my luck is wooshing right on over to you xxx

ps best of luck on the Harley x

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:37 pm

Guys and Gals.....I have just read every single message on this topic (I'm new here by the way) and want to add my warmest wishes and have everything x-ed for a good result.

Our world seems to be in a bad state and history tells us this is nothing new apart from the fact that we have the knowledge to put it right. What some people haven't got is the will....this is down to greed, big egos and plain nastinesss etc/ etc.. I want to be optimistic for the future and at the grand old age of 58 have started practising buddhism in the quest for a peaceful world. One thing is for sure, if us human beings wipe each other out, good old planet earth will keep on turning and evolving.....we are afer all just the blink of an eye in our planets life. We may destroy 'life as we know it' but we don't own it ...we are the caretakers (not very good ones )....earth will survive in some form or other.

Blimey....how depressing.....still ....nearly the dawn of another day....another wonderful earth day

warm wishes........................Bez :-6 :yh_star

Nam-myho-renge-kyo

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:07 am

Bez wrote: Nam-myho-renge-kyo
Hey Bez, Is that Shinto?

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:22 pm

Accountable (have you got a short name?)....Hi

Shintoism is a religion in its own right...I copied this from the web....

'About 84% of the population of Japan follow two religions: both Shinto and Buddhism. (As in much of Asia, Christianity is quite rarely. 12 Fewer than 1% of adults are Christians.) Buddhism first arrived in Japan from Korea and China during the 6th through 8th centuries CE. The two religions share a basic optimism about human nature, and for the world. Within Shinto, the Buddha was viewed as another "Kami". Meanwhile, Buddhism in Japan regarded the Kami as being manifestations of various Buddhas and Bodhisattvas. Most weddings are performed by Shinto priests; funerals are performed by Buddhist priests.

Shinto does not have as fully developed a theology as do most other religions. It does not have its own moral code. Shintoists generally follow the code of Confucianism.'

I follow the Buddhism of Nicherin Daishonin....

Nichiren Buddhism

SGI members follow the teachings of Nichiren, a Buddhist monk who lived in 13th century Japan. Nichiren asserted that every individual has the potential to become enlightened in his or her present lifetime. Buddhist practice is a vehicle of individual empowerment. Each person has within the power to overcome life's inevitable challenges, to live a life of value and become a positive influence in one's community, society and the world.

Origins in India

Nichiren's philosophy is rooted in the teachings of Shakyamuni (Gautama Siddartha), the historical founder of Buddhism who lived in India some 2,500 years ago. His teachings were recorded as sutras and spread throughout Asia, giving rise to a number of distinct schools of Buddhism.

Nam- Myoho-renge-kyo is what we chant...roughly translated MYO= mystic, RENGE =lotus flower, KYO = sutra(teaching)

Are you interested in Buddhism.? I have only been practising a few months but it has made a difference to me.

Warm wishes ....Bez :-6

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:26 pm

They call me AC or ACC here. My wife's Japanese. Your sig looked like Japanese. She recognized it as a religious phrase but couldn't remember what it meant. thanks :-6

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:23 am

Bez wrote: Guys and Gals.....I have just read every single message on this topic (I'm new here by the way) and want to add my warmest wishes and have everything x-ed for a good result.

Our world seems to be in a bad state and history tells us this is nothing new apart from the fact that we have the knowledge to put it right. What some people haven't got is the will....this is down to greed, big egos and plain nastinesss etc/ etc.. I want to be optimistic for the future and at the grand old age of 58 have started practising buddhism in the quest for a peaceful world. One thing is for sure, if us human beings wipe each other out, good old planet earth will keep on turning and evolving.....we are afer all just the blink of an eye in our planets life. We may destroy 'life as we know it' but we don't own it ...we are the caretakers (not very good ones )....earth will survive in some form or other.

Blimey....how depressing.....still ....nearly the dawn of another day....another wonderful earth day

warm wishes........................Bez :-6 :yh_star

Nam-myho-renge-kyo
Sorry mate. I was in a melancholy mood when the question struck.

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:28 am

ACC...sorry it was such a long winded answer to a 'simple question'.

warm wishes to you and your wife.:-6

Bez