Have you signed over your parental rights today?

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:44 pm

OMG -- I was watching Montel Williams this AM and found he was debasing, denigrating and just in general saying this organization is morally WRONG, an organization who's parent company is WWASP (based in Utah). I was horrified. They ask parents to sign over their parental rights so the WWASPaffiliates can send these teens out of country to a "supposed" rehabilitation facility. The parents have SIGNED OVER THEIR PARENTAL RIGHTS and for that privilage have to pay $3,000 to $5,000 a month. The parents are required to pay a further $2,000 - $3,000 a month to go to counseling sessions even though they CANNOT see their child during this time. There SEEMS to be NO COUNSELING and very LITTLE EDUCATION. It looks as though the teens are subjected to - what I would call isolation and torture.

For a better look at this organization go to this site.

www.wwasp.com

If you want to be scared - look at this:

Tranquility Bay, under the wwasp umbrella, advertises its programs in a variety of fashions. They have created a network of websites and "informational" media that has been widely distributed. These websites make claims which are dubious at best. Below you will find true information regarding wwasp's and Tranquility Bay's claims.

http://tbfight.com/

Tranquility Bay

Report

Prepared by the International Survivors Action Committee

http://www.isaccorp.org/tranquility/tra ... report.pdf

Post by **spot** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:56 pm

The children can still report abuse or criminal mistreatment when they are returned to the USA, and it will still be investigated. The signed-away parental rights are to set the atmosphere for the rehabilitation - it prevents the parents from withdrawing half-way though from motives of misplaced affection. It doesn't permit criminal behavior.

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:02 pm

The children can still report abuse or criminal mistreatment when they are returned to the USA, and it will still be investigated.

It should not happen in the first place! Once they are abused, it's too late.

As for signing over parental rights, no way in hell would I ever do that; not to anyone for any reason.

Post by **spot** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:08 pm

Peg wrote: It should not happen in the first place! Once they are abused, it's too late.I agree entirely, Peg. What evidence have you that it occurs at all? Nobody can prosecute before an offense is committed, that's plain. I don't think there have been any prosecutions, even though they could be brought if there were abuse. Don't you think that suggests that there's no abuse?

koan · Post by **koan** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:30 pm

I'm interested to see how many people who are pro death penalty are against this program. If we are talking about kids who are beyond control and becoming delinquents...is this not better than killing them later?

I am anti DP and anti parents not being able to instill proper values in their own kids. But some people don't have the tools. It is all very sad.

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:41 pm

spot wrote: The children can still report abuse or criminal mistreatment when they are returned to the USA, and it will still be investigated. The signed-away parental rights are to set the atmosphere for the rehabilitation - it prevents the parents from withdrawing half-way though from motives of misplaced affection. It doesn't permit criminal behavior.

The whole premise of the program is that the kids are liars, cheaters, whores, drug addicts and sometimes just TEENAGERS. Why don't these parents quit thinking about their jobs long enough to think about their children!! These parents want to rid themselves of "problem children" . These children are not Problems - they are begging for some parental control ------ ie - tough love -- not a friend in their parent. Go figure. :yh_sad

john8pies · Post by **john8pies** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:34 am

Personally, I am astonished that such a practice is even legal!

Tombstone · Post by **Tombstone** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:40 am

nvalleyvee wrote: OMG -- I was watching Montel Williams this AM and found he was debasing, denigrating and just in general saying this organization is morally WRONG, an organization who's parent company is WWASP (based in Utah). I was horrified. They ask parents to sign over their parental rights so the WWASPaffiliates can send these teens out of country to a "supposed" rehabilitation facility. The parents have SIGNED OVER THEIR PARENTAL RIGHTS and for that privilege have to pay $3,000 to $5,000 a month. The parents are required to pay a further $2,000 - $3,000 a month to go to counseling sessions even though they CANNOT see their child during this time. There SEEMS to be NO COUNSELING and very LITTLE EDUCATION. It looks as though the teens are subjected to - what I would call isolation and torture.

One of these facilities was highlighted on a Fox (?) show this year. I think it was called "Brat Camp". They were UK kids who were sent out into the Utah wilderness.

I would submit (as we have talked about on other threads) that these kids did not really have parents. The parents were sad sad specimens. They really couldn't give up their parental rights since they didn't exercise any kind of parental rights when the kids were at home! Drugs, sex, crimes, beatings, etc. These parents just looked glassy-eyed into the cameras and said, "I don't know what to do - I'm afraid of my child."

These programs work. They define boundaries. These are real boundaries that the kids in these camps face for the first time in their lives. If they break the rules, they must face the consequences - consequences that are explicitly stated before the program begins.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:30 am

Nice work, David...you managed to slam both conservatives and Christians, all while putting them in the same category with racist Nazi-worshippers. C'mon! That's a little excessive, even for you!

I actually deal with these kinds of kids on a daily basis and believe me, Tombstone was right on the beam. These kids truly do not have any kind of parenting. Often just the opposite is true, the parents are actually the problem.

One crack and meth addicted mother once told me, "I can't make my daughter go to school, she'll punch holes in the wall, beat me up, and run away!"

Just how do you suppose the daughter got that screwed up?!

What we have here is probably some kind of treatment facility for kids that are seriously troubled. I don't like the looks of that picture, but I'm not willing to judge this operation just by that.

Trying to help these kids is a worthy cause.

Tombstone · Post by **Tombstone** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:40 am

Better in a brat camp than in jail - which is where many of them will end up unless they can get back on the right track.

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:05 am

Tombstone wrote: Better in a brat camp than in jail - which is where many of them will end up unless they can get back on the right track.Here-Here, or dead in some filthy squat from a heroin overdose!

chaking · Post by **chaking** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 9:40 pm

Contrary to the "wisdom" stated in responses to this topic, most of the kids at Tranquility Bay are not going to be homicidal maniacs nor did they ever do anything to deserve to be placed in such a place... Some have committed crimes or done serious drugs etc... This is not the point though... There are long established means of treating people... To put a kid into the hands of people who haven't even been trained to help kids, well it can only compund the problem... WWASP is out to make money that is it! That'swhy they don't properly train their staff, that's why its in Jamaica, that's why it costs so much, thats why the food is so terrible etc etc etc...

I feel really bad (a bit angry too) at those of you who brushed this topic off as a bunch of kids lying and manipulating... Did you ever think that maybe WWASP were just a bunch of grown up kids lying and manipulatiing?

And as for why there aren't more lawsuits... Try it... Try as an 18 y/o kid who just got left across the country with 50 bucks and nothing else... try to sue aplace that not even in the same country...!! It aint easy... And when the time came for me, when I had a stable life and a means of income... well my time ran out

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:15 am

I ve heard of programs like these for the rehabilitation of the incorrigable. I would never consider it myself. Giving up parental rights is a bizarre concept to me. However, I must say that parental example , or lack of good parenting is not always the reason that some teens become monsters. More and more research is being done to support the theory that genetics definately are responsible for anyone being who they are. I have two sons. From the day they were born my number one priority has been being committed to keeping them safe, loving them, and raising them to be responsible, loving , decent human beings. One is fine. The other gives me more grief and anguish , than you could imagine. I have beat my head against the wall trying to get through to him.. to no avail. My parents had 3 girls. Lost the middle one to drugs 15 years ago. They sacrificed their lives to turn that child around. Some people do not have the intelligence, the stamina, or the resources to deal with a teen that is totally out of controll. They fall prey to programs like these. I would assume it is out of desperation. Also because they do not have an awareness of the existence of evil predators whose agenda is to get these kids and have subjects to exercise cruelty on. We all know the family structure is falling apart rapidly. Financial stress and the inability of parent to stay home..is making drug use more and more common amidst our youth. We are creating an army of lethargic, lazy , despondent, angry young people. Parents are grasping at straws trying to save them. Or to escape them before the family members still at home, are also destroyed.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 10:29 am

Jives wrote: Nice work, David...you managed to slam both conservatives and Christians, all while putting them in the same category with racist Nazi-worshippers. C'mon! That's a little excessive, even for you!

I actually deal with these kinds of kids on a daily basis and believe me, Tombstone was right on the beam. These kids truly do not have any kind of parenting. Often just the opposite is true, the parents are actually the problem.

One crack and meth addicted mother once told me, "I can't make my daughter go to school, she'll punch holes in the wall, beat me up, and run away!"

Just how do you suppose the daughter got that screwed up?!

What we have here is probably some kind of treatment facility for kids that are seriously troubled. I don't like the looks of that picture, but I'm not willing to judge this operation just by that.

Trying to help these kids is a worthy cause. ;)I agree with you here Jives.

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:10 am

chaking wrote: Contrary to the "wisdom" stated in responses to this topic, most of the kids at Tranquility Bay are not going to be homicidal maniacs nor did they ever do anything to deserve to be placed in such a place... Some have committed crimes or done serious drugs etc... This is not the point though... There are long established means of treating people... To put a kid into the hands of people who haven't even been trained to help kids, well it can only compund the problem... WWASP is out to make money that is it! That'swhy they don't properly train their staff, that's why its in Jamaica, that's why it costs so much, thats why the food is so terrible etc etc etc...

I feel really bad (a bit angry too) at those of you who brushed this topic off as a bunch of kids lying and manipulating... Did you ever think that maybe WWASP were just a bunch of grown up kids lying and manipulatiing?

And as for why there aren't more lawsuits... Try it... Try as an 18 y/o kid who just got left across the country with 50 bucks and nothing else... try to sue aplace that not even in the same country...!! It aint easy... And when the time came for me, when I had a stable life and a means of income... well my time ran out
Welcome chaking,

Which WWASP school were you at? Did you go offshore? I am somewhat familiar with how they operate and understand all you are saying...

Talk about accountability? Where is WWASPS accountability. Why are so many of their schools raided and shut down? Why is their no accountability when accusations are made by parents and students (prisoners).

Another thing is their brainwashing through Discovery (Large Group Awareness Seminars). that is one HUGH rip off. Add these (Discovery) mandatory fees to about $35,000 a year for your child and you are looking at around about $45,000..... An average school has about 100 children. There are about 20 schools now............ HMMM does WWASP make a profit? I would think so.

I welcome you to invite any other survivors you may know to the garden. It is a open minded place......

chaking · Post by **chaking** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:28 pm

I went to Tranquility Bay and Spring Creek... You are right, WWASP is only after money... All you got to do is look into it a bit, and you can't help but see how corupt it is... And yeah, all of their overseas facilities have been raided and shutdown, except TB... that doesn't raise any red flags?

Raid · Post by **Raid** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:48 pm

Jives wrote: Nice work, David...you managed to slam both conservatives and Christians, all while putting them in the same category with racist Nazi-worshippers. C'mon! That's a little excessive, even for you!

I actually deal with these kinds of kids on a daily basis and believe me, Tombstone was right on the beam. These kids truly do not have any kind of parenting. Often just the opposite is true, the parents are actually the problem.

One crack and meth addicted mother once told me, "I can't make my daughter go to school, she'll punch holes in the wall, beat me up, and run away!"

Just how do you suppose the daughter got that screwed up?!

What we have here is probably some kind of treatment facility for kids that are seriously troubled. I don't like the looks of that picture, but I'm not willing to judge this operation just by that.

Trying to help these kids is a worthy cause.

Hi, http://www.swatthewwasp.com/index.php

btw at $5000 a month I don't think that it is primarily crack addicted Mommies that are sending their kids to these wwasp programs.

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:33 pm

I've read the 20+ page enrollment form - it is so bad I could not believe my eyes.

actionfigurestepho · Post by **actionfigurestepho** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 6:30 am

If these places were really there to help the kids and not make a profit, wouldn't they first submit the child to a psychiatrist and observation before enrolling them? To make sure they were actually deviant and not just going through puberty? I can't imagine someone accepting kids into such an extreme situation based on one parent's word alone.

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:19 pm

Well Far - too many parents want to be their children's friend. They don't want to be the role role model for a good work ethic, sound values or loyalty to anything, not if it means their kids won't like them for say ummmm 5 minutes. :-5

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:47 pm

Far Rider wrote: I was drill sergeant for a time....

I saw this everyday! Some parent who think they raised a good kid lets em join the Army... and I gotta teach them kids how to brush thier teeth, change their underwear, get out of bed on time and wake up and start realizing his momma anit gonna wipe thier tush for them any more.... its amazing how fast some catch on when they realize momma aint aroudn to save them!

You talk about a rude awakening... you've never woken up to an alarm clock more hated and annoying then me....

My point is parents shudda sent me men to train to be soldiers, not boys to teach to be men first then train into soldiers.

I blame parents for the emergence of programs like this.

Did these parents pay you $36,000 a year to make a man out of a a child?

Bet NOT.

Yes the parents need to take a stand but trust me WWASP is not the right choice, especially if your child is sent offshore. I can fill your pipe with scores of reasons.

Jus ask.

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:14 pm

Here is a LANDMARK lawsuit that could break WWASPS back............

I hope it does for the parents and kids sake, who are hoodwinked by this GREEDY conglomerant.

http://www.tbfight.com/BushkinComplaintWWASP.pdf

Oh did I mention WWWASP use to BUTTER my bread?