700 Billion Dollar Bill Passed. Good or Bad?
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southern yankee
- Posts: 3906
- Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:38 pm
700 Billion Dollar Bill Passed. Good or Bad?
Since Friday hubby 401k has lost$6,000!!! there goes our nest egg. I am sure the rest will be to follow.
700 Billion Dollar Bill Passed. Good or Bad?
southern yankee;1012541 wrote: Since Friday hubby 401k has lost$6,000!!! there goes our nest egg. I am sure the rest will be to follow.
Today's been a hell of a rollercoaster - shares dropping 30% then up 30% and eventually ending up flat. Someone make a killing and it sure wasn't me.
There's a significant section of the media talking down the economy as well as the profiteering by some of the big investment funds. Yesterday, for example, two of the investment funds sold big chunks of share in one of the major UK banks in a move that made no sense except driving down the shares to make a profit on the buyback - good maybe in the short term for their fund but devastating in the longer term for the market as a whole and, ultimately, for themselves.
Today's been a hell of a rollercoaster - shares dropping 30% then up 30% and eventually ending up flat. Someone make a killing and it sure wasn't me.
There's a significant section of the media talking down the economy as well as the profiteering by some of the big investment funds. Yesterday, for example, two of the investment funds sold big chunks of share in one of the major UK banks in a move that made no sense except driving down the shares to make a profit on the buyback - good maybe in the short term for their fund but devastating in the longer term for the market as a whole and, ultimately, for themselves.
700 Billion Dollar Bill Passed. Good or Bad?
Bryn Mawr;1013000 wrote: Today's been a hell of a rollercoaster - shares dropping 30% then up 30% and eventually ending up flat. Someone make a killing and it sure wasn't me.
There's a significant section of the media talking down the economy as well as the profiteering by some of the big investment funds. Yesterday, for example, two of the investment funds sold big chunks of share in one of the major UK banks in a move that made no sense except driving down the shares to make a profit on the buyback - good maybe in the short term for their fund but devastating in the longer term for the market as a whole and, ultimately, for themselves.
My suggestion for such actions is to institute criminal proceedings to all such proven instances. Seriously. I think its going to be important in future to somehow put the frighteners on these scumbags so that they may think twice about trying to make a fast buck out of sabotaging the national economy, (which is how come we are here in the first place). Some new statutes on the books thinks I. Economic Treason for British citizens could be a new crime, punishable by life imprisonment, or perhaps trading-based terrorism could be another, punishable by a spell in an American island labour camp. Charming.
There's a significant section of the media talking down the economy as well as the profiteering by some of the big investment funds. Yesterday, for example, two of the investment funds sold big chunks of share in one of the major UK banks in a move that made no sense except driving down the shares to make a profit on the buyback - good maybe in the short term for their fund but devastating in the longer term for the market as a whole and, ultimately, for themselves.
My suggestion for such actions is to institute criminal proceedings to all such proven instances. Seriously. I think its going to be important in future to somehow put the frighteners on these scumbags so that they may think twice about trying to make a fast buck out of sabotaging the national economy, (which is how come we are here in the first place). Some new statutes on the books thinks I. Economic Treason for British citizens could be a new crime, punishable by life imprisonment, or perhaps trading-based terrorism could be another, punishable by a spell in an American island labour camp. Charming.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
700 Billion Dollar Bill Passed. Good or Bad?
Galbally;1013040 wrote: My suggestion for such actions is to institute criminal proceedings to all such proven instances. Seriously. I think its going to be important in future to somehow put the frighteners on these scumbags so that they may think twice about trying to make a fast buck out of sabotaging the national economy, (which is how come we are here in the first place). Some new statutes on the books thinks I. Economic Treason for British citizens could be a new crime, punishable by life imprisonment, or perhaps trading-based terrorism could be another, punishable by a spell in an American island labour camp. Charming.
Would that we could do just that - the difficulty, as always, is proving the intent.
Would that we could do just that - the difficulty, as always, is proving the intent.
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
700 Billion Dollar Bill Passed. Good or Bad?
So the bailout, it seems, was a bad idea. So naturally we're going to try more of the same.
Today on This Week with George Stephanopoulos, former Secretary Treasury Baker sat for a satellite interview. The backdrop was a bookshelf with a few books and such. High in the right corner of the screen I saw a plaque with two kanji (Chinese) symbols. I asked my beloved if it was a Japanese word. The word was kiki which means "crisis" or "emergency"! Coincidence??
Today on This Week with George Stephanopoulos, former Secretary Treasury Baker sat for a satellite interview. The backdrop was a bookshelf with a few books and such. High in the right corner of the screen I saw a plaque with two kanji (Chinese) symbols. I asked my beloved if it was a Japanese word. The word was kiki which means "crisis" or "emergency"! Coincidence??
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wildhorses
- Posts: 648
- Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:08 pm
700 Billion Dollar Bill Passed. Good or Bad?
The bailout won't work.
The money will end up in the pockets of the banksters that ran wild and created the mess in the first place. Taxpayers are taking the loss instead of the banksters. Of course, when they were raking in the money they were "private" businesses. But now all of the sudden they are into socialism...and want to dump the losses on the taxpayer.
This will only encourage the same behavior in the future.
I think the taxpayer money could have been put to better use by taking over the mortgages directly from the homeowners. Then just declare that the loan amount of the first mortgage is the current value. Give the bank the current value. Let the banks take the losses. This way the homeowner can stay in the home. It will stop the decline of the housing market too. The government can carry the new loan.
The money will end up in the pockets of the banksters that ran wild and created the mess in the first place. Taxpayers are taking the loss instead of the banksters. Of course, when they were raking in the money they were "private" businesses. But now all of the sudden they are into socialism...and want to dump the losses on the taxpayer.
This will only encourage the same behavior in the future.
I think the taxpayer money could have been put to better use by taking over the mortgages directly from the homeowners. Then just declare that the loan amount of the first mortgage is the current value. Give the bank the current value. Let the banks take the losses. This way the homeowner can stay in the home. It will stop the decline of the housing market too. The government can carry the new loan.
700 Billion Dollar Bill Passed. Good or Bad?
wildhorses;1018141 wrote: The bailout won't work.
The money will end up in the pockets of the banksters that ran wild and created the mess in the first place.That depends on which country you're looking at. The British have this morning bailed out the largest bank over here, RBS, but confiscated 60% of RBS' shares in the process thereby becoming the majority stockholder. If there's rapine and plunder in progress it's the mighty shaft of the public being thrust deep into the commercial world's private parts and, as a member of the public, allow me to say how satisfying an experience it is. Oh - our first act was to fire the Chairman with no severance package.
You may well be right about your US $700 billion being looted by capitalists. That's what comes of tolerating capitalism in your neck of the woods. I'm sure they'll all buy yachts and move to the Mediterranean, and good luck to them.
The money will end up in the pockets of the banksters that ran wild and created the mess in the first place.That depends on which country you're looking at. The British have this morning bailed out the largest bank over here, RBS, but confiscated 60% of RBS' shares in the process thereby becoming the majority stockholder. If there's rapine and plunder in progress it's the mighty shaft of the public being thrust deep into the commercial world's private parts and, as a member of the public, allow me to say how satisfying an experience it is. Oh - our first act was to fire the Chairman with no severance package.
You may well be right about your US $700 billion being looted by capitalists. That's what comes of tolerating capitalism in your neck of the woods. I'm sure they'll all buy yachts and move to the Mediterranean, and good luck to them.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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wildhorses
- Posts: 648
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700 Billion Dollar Bill Passed. Good or Bad?
spot;1018179 wrote: That depends on which country you're looking at. The British have this morning bailed out the largest bank over here, RBS, but confiscated 60% of RBS' shares in the process thereby becoming the majority stockholder. If there's rapine and plunder in progress it's the mighty shaft of the public being thrust deep into the commercial world's private parts and, as a member of the public, allow me to say how satisfying an experience it is. Oh - our first act was to fire the Chairman with no severance package.
You may well be right about your US $700 billion being looted by capitalists. That's what comes of tolerating capitalism in your neck of the woods. I'm sure they'll all buy yachts and move to the Mediterranean, and good luck to them.
I am glad that Britain's leaders have more sense than USA leaders. You might actually have a chance to recover. But the way I see things going here in USA....the money will just go into a black hole. :-2
You may well be right about your US $700 billion being looted by capitalists. That's what comes of tolerating capitalism in your neck of the woods. I'm sure they'll all buy yachts and move to the Mediterranean, and good luck to them.
I am glad that Britain's leaders have more sense than USA leaders. You might actually have a chance to recover. But the way I see things going here in USA....the money will just go into a black hole. :-2
700 Billion Dollar Bill Passed. Good or Bad?
To bring the morning's news up to date, the price the government paid for just over 60% of the RBS shares was 65.5p. It closed last week on 75p, it was around 350+ this Easter and spent the intervening time until this month above 200.
Oh - the other bit of the deal? No bonuses to be paid at all. Nationalized industries don't do that sort of thing.
We seem to have bought 40% of HBOS too. Thrilling times indeed.
Barclays has clamped its enfeebled gums together and decided to brave things out alone, rather in the fashion of Ian Paisley shouting No Surrender leading a Loyalist march through the Bogside.
The three banks which have taken Government money have agreed in return to put their lending and mortgage volumes back to what they were last year. There's your newly available credit, just like that. Isn't it easy when you've a spare £40 billion in your back pocket?
Oh - the other bit of the deal? No bonuses to be paid at all. Nationalized industries don't do that sort of thing.
We seem to have bought 40% of HBOS too. Thrilling times indeed.
Barclays has clamped its enfeebled gums together and decided to brave things out alone, rather in the fashion of Ian Paisley shouting No Surrender leading a Loyalist march through the Bogside.
The three banks which have taken Government money have agreed in return to put their lending and mortgage volumes back to what they were last year. There's your newly available credit, just like that. Isn't it easy when you've a spare £40 billion in your back pocket?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
700 Billion Dollar Bill Passed. Good or Bad?
spot;1018187 wrote: To bring the morning's news up to date, the price the government paid for just over 60% of the RBS shares was 65.5p. It closed last week on 75p, it was around 350+ this Easter and spent the intervening time until this month above 200.
Oh - the other bit of the deal? No bonuses to be paid at all. Nationalized industries don't do that sort of thing.
We seem to have bought 40% of HBOS too. Thrilling times indeed.
Barclays has clamped its enfeebled gums together and decided to brave things out alone, rather in the fashion of Ian Paisley shouting No Surrender leading a Loyalist march through the Bogside.
The three banks which have taken Government money have agreed in return to put their lending and mortgage volumes back to what they were last year. There's your newly available credit, just like that. Isn't it easy when you've a spare £40 billion in your back pocket?
That all seems good, except the last bit. I would be worried that the banks agreeing to return to large scale mortage lending smacks a little of the state proping up a property pyramid using public money, thats not acceptble, as the only people who benefit long term from overvalued land and property are rentiers and developers, and thats hardly acceptable from the perspective of the labour party is it???
Oh - the other bit of the deal? No bonuses to be paid at all. Nationalized industries don't do that sort of thing.
We seem to have bought 40% of HBOS too. Thrilling times indeed.
Barclays has clamped its enfeebled gums together and decided to brave things out alone, rather in the fashion of Ian Paisley shouting No Surrender leading a Loyalist march through the Bogside.
The three banks which have taken Government money have agreed in return to put their lending and mortgage volumes back to what they were last year. There's your newly available credit, just like that. Isn't it easy when you've a spare £40 billion in your back pocket?
That all seems good, except the last bit. I would be worried that the banks agreeing to return to large scale mortage lending smacks a little of the state proping up a property pyramid using public money, thats not acceptble, as the only people who benefit long term from overvalued land and property are rentiers and developers, and thats hardly acceptable from the perspective of the labour party is it???
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
700 Billion Dollar Bill Passed. Good or Bad?
I think they see no acceptable alternative to slow change. Quick change they equate with disaster. With the mortgages the house price index will move at a slower pace. With the lending the fall in spending will be slow enough to avoid crashing the High Street into mass closures. A drift toward stability is, presumably, their ideal route. At least until after the next election - isn't that invariably the horizon for these manoeuvres?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
700 Billion Dollar Bill Passed. Good or Bad?
The Sun Monday October 13th
"Gordon Brown will effectively nationalise two high street banks today -- by pumping in £25 billion to prop them up.
Royal Bank of Scotland :p will get £15 billion and HBOS £10 billion.
The Prime Minister has convinced 15 other EU countrries to follow Downing Strret's lead in rescuing banks.
Is Bush following these tactics?
"Gordon Brown will effectively nationalise two high street banks today -- by pumping in £25 billion to prop them up.
Royal Bank of Scotland :p will get £15 billion and HBOS £10 billion.
The Prime Minister has convinced 15 other EU countrries to follow Downing Strret's lead in rescuing banks.
Is Bush following these tactics?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
700 Billion Dollar Bill Passed. Good or Bad?
spot;1018187 wrote: To bring the morning's news up to date, the price the government paid for just over 60% of the RBS shares was 65.5p. It closed last week on 75p, it was around 350+ this Easter and spent the intervening time until this month above 200.
Oh - the other bit of the deal? No bonuses to be paid at all. Nationalized industries don't do that sort of thing.
We seem to have bought 40% of HBOS too. Thrilling times indeed.
Barclays has clamped its enfeebled gums together and decided to brave things out alone, rather in the fashion of Ian Paisley shouting No Surrender leading a Loyalist march through the Bogside.
The three banks which have taken Government money have agreed in return to put their lending and mortgage volumes back to what they were last year. There's your newly available credit, just like that. Isn't it easy when you've a spare £40 billion in your back pocket?
You forgot the no shareholder dividends until the preference shares have been bought back.
You are assuming that there will be zero take up of the new issues by existing shareholders or the institutions (not unreasonably) - the Government only gets the remainder and could end up with a minority shareholding as they definitely will with Lloyds TSB Halifax Bank of Scotland (now there's a mouthful but they don't get a penny until the merger goes through) who are giving up a maximum of 40%.
Fred the Shred went today but Sir Tom doesn't go until next April.
Oh - the other bit of the deal? No bonuses to be paid at all. Nationalized industries don't do that sort of thing.
We seem to have bought 40% of HBOS too. Thrilling times indeed.
Barclays has clamped its enfeebled gums together and decided to brave things out alone, rather in the fashion of Ian Paisley shouting No Surrender leading a Loyalist march through the Bogside.
The three banks which have taken Government money have agreed in return to put their lending and mortgage volumes back to what they were last year. There's your newly available credit, just like that. Isn't it easy when you've a spare £40 billion in your back pocket?
You forgot the no shareholder dividends until the preference shares have been bought back.
You are assuming that there will be zero take up of the new issues by existing shareholders or the institutions (not unreasonably) - the Government only gets the remainder and could end up with a minority shareholding as they definitely will with Lloyds TSB Halifax Bank of Scotland (now there's a mouthful but they don't get a penny until the merger goes through) who are giving up a maximum of 40%.
Fred the Shred went today but Sir Tom doesn't go until next April.
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southern yankee
- Posts: 3906
- Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:38 pm
700 Billion Dollar Bill Passed. Good or Bad?
i know stock market6 rallied today. but will this trend continue?? I wounder if it is giving us a false secure feeling
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Oscar Namechange
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- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
700 Billion Dollar Bill Passed. Good or Bad?
southern yankee;1019311 wrote: i know stock market6 rallied today. but will this trend continue?? I wounder if it is giving us a false secure feeling
I wasn't joking when i said in another post that Gordon Brown the British Prime Minister has solved the economical crisis today.
It is early to say but what he did today in Britain was use government money to buy up the banks. He has forced the resignation of bank chiefs and no bonus's will be payed out to the fat cat money men. Directors of the banks will not have a job, they are to be replaced with government appointed people.
Of course his agreement is far far more complicated than that and i have to say i've not taken alot of it on board.
What i do know, is that tonight, by the press, he is being hailed as the mastermind who has saved the world economy not just the UK.
There are 15 European countries who are going to use the same agreement, others are likely to follow and the Press report that Bush is likely to follow suit.
If it comes off, there will be worldwide acclaim for our own Prime Minister but i'm guessing that the agreement has got to be good otherwise so many other countries would not be turning to him for help, advice and certainly not risk their fragile economy's taking the same plan as him.
He is not a total dumb ass. He was Chancellor of the Exchequer under Tony Blair for years and has huge experience in finance.
If Bush takes the same route as the UK today, i really predict that you'll be O.K.
I wasn't joking when i said in another post that Gordon Brown the British Prime Minister has solved the economical crisis today.
It is early to say but what he did today in Britain was use government money to buy up the banks. He has forced the resignation of bank chiefs and no bonus's will be payed out to the fat cat money men. Directors of the banks will not have a job, they are to be replaced with government appointed people.
Of course his agreement is far far more complicated than that and i have to say i've not taken alot of it on board.
What i do know, is that tonight, by the press, he is being hailed as the mastermind who has saved the world economy not just the UK.
There are 15 European countries who are going to use the same agreement, others are likely to follow and the Press report that Bush is likely to follow suit.
If it comes off, there will be worldwide acclaim for our own Prime Minister but i'm guessing that the agreement has got to be good otherwise so many other countries would not be turning to him for help, advice and certainly not risk their fragile economy's taking the same plan as him.
He is not a total dumb ass. He was Chancellor of the Exchequer under Tony Blair for years and has huge experience in finance.
If Bush takes the same route as the UK today, i really predict that you'll be O.K.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon